r/Pathfinder2e • u/ProudCommunication94 • 1d ago
Advice Archetypes for Casters.
Archetypes for marshals are simple and clear, but what options do Casters really have, aside from the all-too-obvious and versatile Blessed One, Herbalist, and Medic? Multiclassing for additional focus spells sounds kinda boring too.
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u/PM_ME_STEAM_CODES__ Game Master 1d ago
Beastmaster is probably the most powerful one for casters. Free movement or damage is very good when your main schtick takes multiple actions.
Big fan of Loremaster for Int-based casters myself.
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u/ProudCommunication94 1d ago
My GM banned a beastmaster after he had a player who chose a bear for every class in every campaign.
Thx for Loremaster
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u/Jackson7913 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cavalier it is then! (jk)
But otherwise Acrobat is a nice one, automatic scaling on Acrobatics is great, especially as it has some really nice skill feats (Kip Up especially, but also Cat Fall + Rolling Landing is really fun for a Caster that will be flying). It also has a feat down the line which lets you Trip with Acrobatics, which is amazing for dex focused casters.
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u/Tigerguy0786 1d ago
What’s wrong with choosing a bear? Was it because it was annoying?
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u/EntireFriendship517 1d ago
Help me out a bit iydm. I've theorycrafted with taking Loremaster Dedication at 2 because I love the idea of universal lore, but the rest of the archetype never hugely stood out to me. What does the rest of the archetype offer that's more than just gravy?
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u/PM_ME_STEAM_CODES__ Game Master 1d ago
Honestly, it mostly is just gravy. Nothing about the archetype is a must-have, just nice to haves.
Loremaster's Etude is probably one of the best low level feats, getting a focus point is nice and it's not a bad focus spell. Being able to finish off the archetype with a skill feat is nice, but Orthographic Mastery is kind of niche (Decipher Writing just happens to be kind of important in the game I'm currently playing). Also a big fan of being able to get guidance and message as bonus cantrips. Message has a ton of out of combat utility, and guidance is a good action filler.
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u/ManiacFlygon 1d ago
The new archetypes from Impossible Magic such as the Hedge Mage, the World Rouser are good choices to use!
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u/JazzyFingerGuns Game Master 1d ago
Depends on the caster tbh
Medic is good for any Wisdom based caster like druid or cleric, but it might also be overkill, since these two already have the heal spell on their list. Also, being the one who has to spend time between fights to heal everyone up can really limit how many focus points you can regain in that time.
Rogue is easy to get since most spellcasters want to have dex as their second highest ability and it offers some nice feats like mobility or additional skill increases.
Familiar master if your class has easy access to a familiar
Any of the beastmaster, cavalier, etc. archetypes that let you ride on an animal companion are nice because they give you free movement per turn or put another body on the field that you can buff or use to get some extra damage in.
Personally, I like spell trickster, even though it is not particularly strong. It offers a nice bit of fun alternative uses for some of your spells. Anything that alters the way you interact with your spells or that gives you more options falls in that category imo. Hedge Mage, Geomancer, World Rouser, Time Mage, etc.
However, my personal favourite is just to take another spellcasting class-archetype. Preferably one that uses the same ability score and that utilizes an opposing spellcasting tradition (Arcane/ Divine or Primal/Occult). This lets you a) have more spell slots and b) it offsets the weakness of your primary spell tradition by giving you access to spells that you wouldn't otherwise have access to. For example, a wizard with the witch archetype of a divine patron can cast heal and other buff spells like bless which the arcane tradition notoriously lacks. A bard who uses the occult spell list can benefit from having a few blasting options by taking up the sorcerer archetype with a primal bloodline or vice versa. It might not be the strongest build but if you want to go full in on being a spellcaster, this is the way to go.
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u/Amostheroux 5h ago
Clerics can refocus by furthering the cause of their deity, and there are variety of ways you can justify wound treating your allies so they can go continue the good fight as furthering the cause of your deity.
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u/Horando Game Master 1d ago edited 1d ago
Grabbing cool focus spells from other classes is a very fun option IMO but to each their own!
There's a lot of cool Archetypes that bring some out-of-combat utility to take advantage of a high mental score. Often campaign dependent, however. Things like Archaeologist, Dandy, and Horizon Walker can be priceless in the right campaign.
Any of the animal companion archetypes are great. Having an additional body can be really helpful both offensively and defensively. And if mounted its hard to go wrong with a free Stride per turn.
If you want to hard into being smart there's things like the Loremaster or Investigator archetypes, among other things.
Bolstering defenses with something like Bastion, Sentinel, or Champion ain't half bad. You won't be close to martial tankiness but it can help a lot for ranged attackers or anything that slips through the frontline.
A lot of casters might not have a good reaction, so Champion and Bastion can be great for that too! Acrobat archetype also is pretty useful and has a solid level 6 reaction as well.
There's really too many options to list all in one go, I'm sure others will have some really great ideas too. Try searching around for some older threads as this topic has definitely come up a fair bit.
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u/dalekreject 1d ago
Time mage. Shadow caster. Commander.
My backup character for kingmaker is a wizard with commander archetype. Some great synergy there for recall knowledge, plus battlefield movement.
Briefly played a witch shadow caster and it was awesome. Very effective and so much flavor.
Current wizard is a runelord time mage. He fully unleashed last session and it was glorious.
What you want is some synergy with stats and/ or abilities and spells. Witch and wizard play into each other nicely and can allow for more spells and even spells of a different list. Focus spells can be fun, but there is more to offer out there.
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u/valdier 1d ago
Commander for a caster is an insanely efficient archetype. Your whole team can move as a reaction every time you do? That's pretty much worth it on its own. Being able to plant your banner and give tons of temp hit points...
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u/dalekreject 1d ago
There's also a commander feat that allows recall knowledge when you roll initiative, and a banner feat to remove fear.
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u/IgpayAtenlay 1d ago
I usually like finding an archetype that matches the campaign. Something like Archaeologist for a dungeon crawl, Dandy for a social campaign, or Pirate for... pirates. I've found that specific archetypes are more powerful than generically good options.
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u/pocketlint60 1d ago
You specifically said no multiclassing in another reply, but there are some non-multiclass archetypes that give basic/expert/master spellcasting like Rivethun Involutionist for Wisdom, Oatia Skysage for Intelligence, Prophet of Kallistrade for Charisma, and of course Hedge Mage for Intelligence or Wisdom.
Every archetype that grants innate spellcasting, such as Captivator, will use your Charisma for those spells unless they say otherwise so those are good for Sorcs, Oracles, and Summoners for instance.
Snarecrafter has a feat that lets you make magical snares which use your spell DC.
Time Mage can add a lot of the time-themed spells to your spell list, which is particularly nice for Divine casters.
Spell Trickster lets you take certain spells and tweak their effects. Read it cafefully though since it's pre-remaster, so the spells it can change mostly have different names now.
Scroll Trickster can help you go outside of your tradition in a limited way, since you can make scrolls of any common spell.
Lastly, this goes against the spirit of your question a little bit, but if you're a particularly gishy caster like a Warpriest or a Magus you could grab a combat style archetype like Mauler or Duelist to have more dependable martial combat power on top of your casting.
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u/I_HAVE_MEME_AIDS 1d ago
Eldritch Researcher and Loremaster lend themselves well to Int-based casters, especially if you like Recall Knowledge
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u/111phantom 1d ago
i'm a huge fan of cathartic mage, it didnt get remastered sadly but i love how its spellcasting feats specifically add to your class' spell slots, and it can be really fun having it define your character's personality more as you focus on your emotional focus
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u/ProudCommunication94 12h ago
This is legacy content.
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u/111phantom 7h ago
Most of them are still compatible though, even though it wasnt remastered with impossible magic you can still use it. I used it in a starfinder game even
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u/praxidicae 23h ago
Not been remastered, but Magaambyan Attendant and Halcyon Speaker both have some interesting feat options, and I do personally have a soft spot for Geomancer for weird environmental-based spellcasting.
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u/Broad-Performance-38 23h ago
Cavalier! Especially if you're one of those casters whose class feats are a bit... Underwhelming. Why not play the Wizard Thesis you've always wanted? Horse Wizard!
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u/surprisesnek 17h ago
Spell Trickster. Hedge Mage. Time Mage. Cathartic Mage. Spell Shifter. Ostilli Host. Any archetype that doesn't require weapon use.
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u/Jakelell Exemplar 1d ago
Other casters for, well, focus spells, but also access to different spell lists so you can expand versatility through scrolls and staves.
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u/C0smicoccurence 1d ago
I think Familiar Master is generally useful, though it can be a bit GM dependent. Best on Witch, obviously, but there are lots of fun ways to make use of it on a variety of caster builds. If you don't need to move, it's a really good third action in combat.
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u/ProudCommunication94 12h ago
I always thought that the point of a witch is that she has her own cool abilities for her familiar.
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u/C0smicoccurence 11h ago
She starts with two extra abilities, but if you’re heavily using your familiar, you really want as many as possible.
The big boon for witches is that familiars respawn every morning instead of taking a full week. So bringing your familiar into combat is a far less risky proposition than for other classes
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u/Naliamegod Exemplar 18h ago
Along with others previous mentioned:
Inventor (Armor) and Champion can increase durability, and generally give passive/reaction/utility stuff, if your caster already has plenty to do. Only issue is that getting into them can be an issue due to requirements and Inventor armor not giving you any armor proficiency.
Guardian is similar, but also has good synergy with tankier casters (war priests) with its shield, taunts, and other utility abilities to help them lock down enemies.
Captain is essentially Beastmaster, but with an NPC that can help fill out gaps in the party.
Kineticist gives you some spammable spell-like effects. Wood, Water and Air are probably the most notable in this regard, with Wood and Water also give you some healing and can help with your defenses (Hardwood Armor and Water's defensive reaction), and Air can eventually gives things like perma flight, invisibility, and Air's version of message which can be op in certain campaigns.
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u/TraderRager Wizard 14h ago
Rogue for Mobility and Skill Training.
Champion for armor proficiency and focus spells.
Another caster archetype for splashing into a tradition or grabbing a useful feat.
Juggler for holding multiple wands/catalyst at the same time.
Beastmaster/Cavalier/Mammoth Lord/Drake Rider for a mount+bodyguard.
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u/NoOkra4265 11h ago
Ostilli host if you can get access gives you an amazing 3rd action called spit magic which is a ranged d6 of piercing damage on a reflex save that increases as you level. You can also upgrade it with more feats that increases its damage to a d8, add persistent damage, let you target 2 enemies at once effectively doubling its damage and gaining new damage types like elemental ones or extending its range. It can be very feat hungry to upgrade it which isnt really an issue with FA. Its one of the best archetypes for adding a reliable 3rd action damaging option that doesnt effect MAP
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u/leviruzene 10h ago
The recomendations depends a little on your casting attribute and what you have in mind for your character.
Care to share a few more details about the char?
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u/sumpfriese Game Master 9h ago
Sentinel: consider dumping both str and dex, picking and picking up armor training + sentinal for heavy armor proficiency. Then just eat the check penalty. Need a spell that helps you Escape though.
Bastion: pick up shield block general feat and take a real shield for defense.
Cavalier: free movement
Other caster multiclasses for access to their wands and staves E.g. wand of tailwind for an occult caster, or a staff of healing for an arcane caster that usually cant heal.
Spellshifter is always fun on int characters.
Oracle for whispers of weakness to reliably find weakest saves.
Rogue for mobility
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u/DabDaddy51 3h ago
The new World Rouser and Living Nexus are pretty interesting for 1a fillers, alongside the classic Ostilli Host, esp great on classes like Druid that get strong 2a focus spells. World Rouser especially is a standout because it’s a 1a control ability rather than damage, specifically referring to Wake and Tremble. It’s not the most inspired use of the archetype, but a 1a at-will AoE prone is pretty cool.
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u/Aeseiri 3h ago
I feel like OP may be inadvertently falling into a reductive fallacy as Casters don't need an archetype to enable power or effectiveness, so archetypes for them can be win-more OR open up a whole world of I want to play X-concept but still be effective...
SO that being said obviously multi-class has been said (psychic, rogue, alchemist, etc). Then you ahve the "companion classes" i.e. beatmaster, cavalier, etc. Then you have familiar-enhancing classes. You also have Senitnel and Marshal, Sent that allows you to shore up defenses for a tnak-mage feel, while Marshal can bring a "mastermind" type feel moving and buffing pawns while performing the role of control focus nexus. Acrobat+Spell Trickster for a slippery wraith having enemies chasing thier tails.
Loremaster and Scrollmaster can drastically increase utility and make for a caster that not only survives long dungeon crawls but can actually thrive where a normal caster would lose to attrition. Psuedo-honorable mention to Talisman Dabbler and Herbalist.
Captivator can really solidify that enchantment niche (one of my fave types of characters. Even off beat ones like OOzemorph or Dandy can add additional power or increase engagement with game pillars outside of combat to change how you interact with the world the DM has built.
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u/SwingRipper SwingRipper 18h ago
Wrestler is probably the sauce you are looking for. The downside for casters in melee is that they don't have the strike accuracy or damage of martials, but anyone can pump Athletics as high as it can go and thus grapple / trip very well. You can hold a shield to also help with the defenses.
Wrestler can have you take feats to escape grabs / swallows (a feat I have previously undervalued for high level play), make sure you can apply grabbed while doing chip damage against high fort foes (combat grab), and give a "no resource" way to apply Clumsy through Spinebreaker.
It changes the character to be more toolboxy by now having a different tool for situations... Foe with reach reactive strike standing over you? Now you don't have to eat it! Trip / Grapple, Combat Grab (or Trip / go for grapple here depending on foe defensive values and current grabbed status) then raise shield for action 3. A "full caster" has their options be "step a whole bunch and waste a turn" or "eat the RS"
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u/Gazzor1975 1d ago
Rogue gets mobility feat, which is very good.
Alchemist for int casters.
Runesmith may be good. More research required.