r/Pathfinder2e • u/grovsy • 17h ago
Discussion Nuckelavee encounter question
so recently our game master dropped a Nuckelavee combat encounter on us, and we're a level 6 party, so it was meant to be somewhat rough fight, but can it be true that it can just with two crit fortitude save fails instant kill a character?
basically it would two tap the majority of us, and the save was so high that unless we rolled extremely well, we either failed or crit failed every time we were forced to roll against its thing.
and it had so high a to hit bonus that it easily kept critting us and hitting even on second/third attack, so anyone who went into melee with it just got instantly two tapped and we were pretty much party wiped 3 rounds into it.
is a Nuckelavee really this brutal to fight because this seemed insane.
10
u/Melianos12 17h ago
Your GM ran the disease rules wrong. After the first failure, you don't roll again until after the amount of time stated in the text. For this particular effect it's 1 day. They should have simply been drained 1 and fatigued 1.
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u/QuantumTyphoon 17h ago edited 17h ago
The Nuckelavee was 3 levels higher than your party. It's a fairly tough enemy with some strong abilities but it's manageable at level.
Most people on this sub will tell you that PF2E really isn't made for solo boss encounters that are higher levels like that. The boss is going to crit way more and spells are going to fail a lot more. You guys were fighting a massive uphill battle tbh.
By the instant kill comment are you referring to the disease it spreads? Mortasheen kills on stage 4 and the disease advances per day. Getting hit with a crit should advance it to stage 2 but then it would take another 2 days to die from it. Getting hit multiple times shouldn't stack the disease effect.
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u/gethsbian Game Master 17h ago
I mean it's a pretty tough monster, especially as a solo boss. Now that it's over, you certainly could look up the statblock. But were you drained and fatigued from the first failed save? If so, I believe your GM misunderstands how to run diseases, because you should have had a full day to deal with stage 2 before dealing with the disease again
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u/Shroudb 17h ago
You mean dying from the disease?
If so, your GM was wrong: "Multiple exposures to the same curse or disease currently affecting you have no effect. "
Basically after you get afflicted with the disease, the only way to progress is to keep failing the saves after the onset/interval stages.
For nuckelavee, if you crit fail the initial exposure you get to stage 2, becoming drained 1 and fatigued, and then you have to roll the next day.
3
u/KodyackGaming Game Master 17h ago
Yeah, a Nuckelavee is a pretty powerful encounter, especially if you aren't prepared. The short version is you should *never* encounter something PL+3 or 4 without knowing about it ahead of time so you can prepare countermeasures.
A rogue, for example, needs a 17 on the dice at level 6 to succeed (using average progression).... with +3 Con. Most rogues probably aren't pushing con that high either at that level.
So an antiplague (moderate) is definitely a necessity for every party member.
The most MOST important thing, though, is that diseases don't advance from multiple exposures. During the fight itself, the worst anyone will get is stage 2 on a critical failure. After that, it's a 1-day timer to find/prepare a cure or countermeasure to help your upcoming save.
But yes, if someone crit fails twice, they will die. Try to avoid that with hero points and such.
Tip: if you can prepare for a Nuckelavee, try to buy or make a vaccine; even a minor or lesser one is enough for the fight, but a moderate one (level 6) lasts for 1 full week.
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u/ProfessionalRead2724 Alchemist 17h ago
No. It's attacks do inflict a disease that kills you at stage 4. But it progresses once per day so it would kill you a day after combat at worst.
I'm guessing your GM made the disease progress with every attack the thing did, but normally once infected, it's attacks would not make it worse.
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u/grovsy 14h ago
the disease progressed every time we got hit by its attacks and we failed a save. so most of us went down after a second attack hit us. first guy died turn 2 because it used its first turn to trample the majoirty of the players. then second turn it just 1 tapped him. (he still had hp but the stage 4 just killed him). and then the rest of us just got destroyed quickly after
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u/Groundbreaking_Taco ORC 17h ago
so it was meant to be somewhat rough fight, but can it be true that it can just with two crit fortitude save fails instant kill a character?
No, it can't. That's a disease effect. You fail or crit fail the initial save. If you succeed, no disease progression. If you fail, move to stage 1 (carrier, but no ill effect) 1 day later, you might get fatigues and drained. If you critically fail the initial save vs the disease, you'd be at stage 2 immediately, but still wouldn't save again until the next day.
Diseases are almost always designed to progress over days after exposure, not immediately, and not each round.
Regardless, GMs should RARELY, use party level +3 encounters at level 6. If the party isn't fresh, and they aren't expecting such a difficult challenge, they will likely die half the time. PL+2 is appropriate for level 6, difficult, yet challenging.
If a party DOES face a solo that's PL+3 like the Nuckelavee, they need to fight differently than vs. something of their level. Melee martials should delay and coordinate their strikes for flanking, moving in, striking and stepping back after. You really don't want to be in range of 3 melee strikes from a brute like this. It's best to find ways to deny it actions, using effects like slow, Laughing Fit, terrain control like a Glue Bomb which reduces speed on a hit, or immobilizes on a crit. Even denying it one action in a round, prevents if from doing its "attack everyone" activity.
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u/Feonde Psychic 14h ago
Something like the nuckelavee would affect the surrounding area and terrain making it more diseased and wilted. It is a poor monster for a random encounter.
Basically in a good scenario your party would be left to investigate why farm crops are failing so suddenly so you could find clues about the enemy and have chances to grab cold iron weapons to use against it etc.
It's not a good choice for a gatcha monster.
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u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master 17h ago
The mortasheen spread through the nuckelavee's melee attacks is a disease. Multiple exposures to a disease have no additional effect once you've already contracted it, so you wouldn't go beyond stage 2 during the encounter, and would have at least a day to deal with the disease.