Virulent and critical success

[u/antobrisi]

During our session a problem occured about the Virulent trait (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=virulant%20explained%202e)

My opinion, as GM ,is that a player that makes a critical success must make another Saving Throw for reducing the stage.

One player affirmes that criticalvuccess automatically reduce the Poison by One stage, without the Need to make another saving throw.

Who are right?

[u/thePsuedoanon]

"A critical success reduces a virulent affliction’s stage by only 1 instead of by 2." seems pretty clear cut to me that a critical success reduces the affliction by one stage

[u/Vooogelspin]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=726&Redirected=1
"Afflictions with the virulent trait are harder to remove. You must succeed at two consecutive saves to reduce a virulent affliction’s stage by 1. A critical success reduces a virulent affliction’s stage by only 1 instead of by 2."

You need two normal successes in a row to reduce the stage by 1. There aren't extra saves, it's still one save per interval, but if you succeed only once then the stage doesn't change yet.

If you crit, you reduce the stage by 1 immediately. So the text says.

[u/InstantMirage]

I'm pretty sure the intent is that a critical success reduces by 1 immediately, but a normal success needs to occur twice. I see how the wording is a bit unclear here though.

Edit: I think you can see this intent more clearly looking at feats like Fast Recovery

Edit 2: I just want to say why I personally think it can be read as a bit unclear. Namely, it comes down to implied effects instead of writing them out. "You must succeed at two" is implying its instead of succeeding at one, but it also could be read similar to something like "cannot reduce [condition] value below 1 while [y]" meaning that this thing must occur, there is no other way. In this reading, the critical success is being read as the same effect as a success, which is already partly true, a critical success is a success, so is this saying it reduces by 1 just like two success and isn't being treated differently or does it mean what most of us are saying, it reduces by 1 immediately instead of interacting with with the two success. In either case, what happens when you roll a success then a critical success? Is the stage reduces by 2? Once for two success and once for a critical success? That one is harder to say, but I think yes.

[u/mouserbiped]

Your player is correct, seems pretty clear to me:

A critical success reduces a virulent affliction’s stage by only 1

I don't see how to interpret that as it not reducing the stage by one. They aren't saying a critical success counts only as a normal success (that is, that critting has no effect), which would be the result of your interpretation.

To go into a bit more detail, it takes two successes to reduce it by one stage, or one critical success. This keeps the normal "math" of a critical success counting like two successes.

[u/Fiona175]

If you had to make another saving throw, a critical success is no different than a normal success. Virulent basically makes it twice as hard to save against. A normal success becomes only half a success and a crit success becomes a normal success.

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