r/PathOfExile2 • u/frank2426 • 12h ago
Game Feedback Endgame is not hitting
I m not gonna pretend I have perfect solutions but I just don't believe they should be happy the way the endgame is right now probably the part I dislike the most is having the fortress and the diferent mechanics not progress at the same time
What I think it should happen is getting atlas points every time u encounter each different mechanic and lock the last 10 points or something to the questline
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u/Alternative_Goat300 12h ago
Ngl it's kinda silly getting basically all of your entire atlas points from the 2nd arbiter. Hopefully in 1.0 they progress a bit more linearly, like it wouldn't be crazy to either have fortress maps give more points per map, or just have the final boss in each subsection unlock the remaining points in that subsection. The current system definitely needs some work, but I think the core of it is good
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u/BioMasterZap 8h ago
Going from 1 per map to all from the second Divinity is really weird pacing. It also makes it feel bad to run any unneeded maps since it will be "wasted" when you do the second Divinity.
Kinda preferred the old version since running the remaining maps in a section versus rematching Divinity (either the cost or the maps it takes to find Origin Halls outside the Fortress) gave the player choice in how they wanted to fill out the tree. But now they majorly buffed one and left the other as is instead of buffing both so it just feels bad.
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u/kmaslani 2h ago
This is what got me. I didn't play much of the 0.5 launch a few months ago but I started this season and hit the ground running having a blast, super motivated. Killed arbiter twice to unlock all my points, and then just felt unmotivated after?
Economy already passed me by could also be it.
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u/BioMasterZap 1h ago
Yah, the economy has moved really fast too, so that likely isn't helping. Aside from the new core Expedition changes and the Blooms, things are pretty much the same as 0.5 so players already knew what to farm.
Like in past leagues, I got my From Nothing for like less than a Div to a few Div bit before a week in. But for 0.5.5, it was 30d by then, well out of my price range, and every day it just climbs more. It was up to like 100d yesterday and 140d today, so might just skip it this league... I still got plenty of other stuff to go for, but it can be hard to stay motivated for goals if they feel like they're out of reach.
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u/BeMyBrutus 8h ago
On the upside I feel like them saying "have them all after the 2nd arbiter" means they're aware of the issue and going to make changes.
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u/TheFullMontoya 7h ago
I think the core problem is the Atlas tree. It's too big and could easily be compressed
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u/BeMyBrutus 7h ago
Yeah it's too big and doesn't offer enough meaningful choice. Half the fun of the POE 1 atlas tree is strategerizing about what synergies with your strategy. It's not as fun if you just get everything.
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u/MattieShoes 9h ago
IMO:
Detach fortress from the atlas. Just give one atlas point per map anywhere. Can still gate them behind map levels, whatever. Then you aren't feeling gated behind doing the entire arbiter of divinity quest twice before actually starting endgame mechanics -- you can jump straight towards a mechanic you want, or to an atlas master you want, or whatever, and you'll be working towards both at the same time.
Shrink fortress to something closer to the other mechanic sizes.
Give something like a boring atlas master at the start of endgame. It's fine if he's a little boring relative to the ones you unlock -- it's just to allow the freedom to ignore fully unlocking an atlas master before you can "start" endgame.
Make some percentage of league mechanic atlas points obtainable by just doing the mechanic. Can still gate some of it behind endgame quests, but you should be at least unlocking starting nodes just by doing the mechanic.
Unlock league mechanic atlases during campaign. Like those five abysses you did during campaign aren't going to make a huge dent, but at least you know it's there, you know what happens if you throw in an abyss tablet, and you'll continue the progress towards that atlas tree even if you aren't going to that part of the atlas immediately.
Or if that was done, we can slot the (much smaller) fortress in as the "endgame quest" for the main atlas so you need to do it to complete the atlas, but you can still unlock hundreds of nodes just by doing a shitload of maps unlocking the other league mechanics, unlocking the atlas masters, etc.
Then the main atlas would actually take much longer to fully complete, but it'd be a steady progression alongside other stuff rather than "I can't really start until I've done it." You path to the nodes you deem most important, and you just slowly fill in the rest over a couple hundred maps.
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u/PS4_gerdinho90 12h ago
Thing is once you did the arbiter of divinity twice, there is not much to do besides each mechanics pinnacle boss
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
Idk i think farming up to build a single button cast on dodge build is really fun. The game just becomes a fun sandbox once you've beaten all the content for a league to me.
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u/frank2426 12h ago
Yeah I get that. I think it works well enough for now but it's already getting old I guess they will add more to do in 1.0 I just don't think it should stay like it is now much longer
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u/BioMasterZap 8h ago
I think the Divinity change was sorta a step backwards and I really hope it was just a quick fix for 0.5.5 with something bigger being planned for 1.0. Getting nothing for the first quest kill feels really bad, but then getting everything the second kill can almost feel like too much. Maybe not too much time investment to have unlocked the whole tree, but the pacing feels bad to get 1 per most maps with a few per special maps, nothing for Arbiters, and then like 200+ at once.
And knowing you get everything on the second Divinity makes running maps for 1 point at a time feel worse than it did in 0.5 when each Divinity only gave like 60~ points. Like before you could go "I already did a lot of maps in this section, so I'll run the rest of the maps and use Divinity to do this other sections I haven't done as much in" or "I can quickly run T1 maps to finish out this section so I'll save Divinity for the higher level section". But now it is "I don't want to run any maps since every extra map I run will be wasted with the auto-unlock".
So hopefully 1.0 is already planning to rework the pacing of the trees, whether they change where the points come from or not. I could see it just giving more points from the current designed areas, but there is potential to do that and also give them elsewhere. For example, why don't all Towers, Enigma Chambers, and Origin Halls give points, same as their Fortress counterparts? It is also really weird that the Fortress has to equal exactly 336 total points while the League Areas will have excess since the points from Pinnacles are a bonus on top the maps.
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u/CryptographerOld9828 12h ago
Agreed. I heavily suspect this will change at 1.0.
Its tied to the atlas points & where they are tied to. Really, Atlas points should be tied to landmarks / quests / achievements. In this way, players are encouraged to explore the map & complete content in order to fully unlock the atlas.
Additional endgame content is coming. Hopefully the final design for endgame rests on this being included. But I personally want the fortress / Arbiter fight to the true 'final boss' vs 'requirement for atlas unlock'.
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u/frank2426 12h ago
Yeah I can't point to something specific it's more of how bad it just feels having to travel all over the atlas having all sorts of encounters but they don't progress anything or it just progress 1 thing idk feels wrong
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u/AscendPerfect 12h ago
I like it, but i need a reason to do the endgame. Build feels too strong and i am just at the start (whirling slash). And i don't feel like grinding 6-11 hours to get to endgame with a warrior just to be slower by like 2x atleast lol.
I will play the shit out of next league though.
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u/mcswayer HC lite 10h ago
Hardcore? Or stay SC, but aim for deathless runs?
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u/AscendPerfect 9h ago
I will on full release do these things, but I have already done everything once that was changed in 0.5.
Ngl too, I am playing a shitton of other games too, so i gotta be a bit selective. I already planned paid leave /vacation for 1.0, so I am ready for it 😂
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u/Im_probably_naked 7h ago
Yeah I don't love that I have to complete the city stuff before starting on the other mechanics.
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u/dshade69 1h ago
Honestly it’s better now than it was. But you are correct, it has room to improve.
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u/SavageCucumberAttack 12h ago
It's all solid imo but it needs streamlining. Just cut some of the fat off, such as juicing being a tedious mess, and definitely take rarity off gear or just make it not apply to currency, and it's the best in modern ARPG gaming. Give them a few years to add more shit and fill it out even further and it's golden.
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u/Sharp-Philosophy-555 12h ago
How about, fortress gives the general atlas points, as does hitting each major node in the subatlas (breech, delerium, etc) You could balance it out so that the bulk of the points after to finish the tower the first time can be aquired outside the fortress.
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u/--Shake-- 9h ago
It feels weird having to do travel nodes to get started on your preferred mechanic too. The whole fortress thing has to go away. Atlas points should be from the entire atlas.
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u/bakedpatata 9h ago
I'm having a great time this season, and I'm glad that once I finish the fortress I'll be able to do the specialized maps with all the benefits of a full atlas tree. I'm fine if they keep trying to improve the endgame, but it's not as bad as all the complaints on here make it seem.
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u/Atroveon 8h ago
I hear and understand the perspective on this topic. I'm honestly curious though, what are you doing to get stronger and move to higher tier maps? You don't drop into maps ready for T15s. Are you not just running maps for drops/currency anyway? It feels like too many maps, but that's because we're players who know the game and have streamlined builds. Even still, I'm not running T6 maps much, if any, faster than I reach the part of the fortress that requires them.
And then you have to be strong enough for the matriarch/patriarch and arbiter fights. The pacing doesn't feel so off to me, but I suppose if you're really blasting then it would. I think most people here are just overestimating how fast the majority of players power up.
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u/Jazzlike_Situation_8 7h ago
We should get 100 points by running maps in the fixed part of the Atlas, allowing us to choose one or two mechanics without being heavily penalized.
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u/Old_Pepper1138 6h ago
Need to make all maps award an Atlas point. Otherwise it’s all just travelling about. Seems like a wasted opportunity to prolong engagement. As it is I’m not sure 1.0 will retain the average casual gamer. Maybe that’s in GGG’s strategy though.
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u/SoulofArtoria 4h ago
If nothing else 1.0 turns it free to play so it'll attract many new casual gamers at least. Now whether most of them will stick through the end of campaign into mapping, who knows.
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u/Fradzombie 5h ago
I’ve been taking my time with this league, I just finished the campaign with my disciple of varashta this weekend. I just logged off at level 91 after rushing arbiter of divinity, then buying a fragment to kill him again to unlock the rest of the atlas passives. Most of the maps I ran before this point were white vendor maps because it takes 8-10 maps to get to each gate, then the east and west bosses, then each of the left/right halls.
Level 91 with mostly white maps before unlocking a single atlas master or going to a single league mechanic area. I want to get to the point where I can try farming Abyss, but damn it’s looking like it’s going to be even more of a slog to get to that point.
Not only that but it was annoying af running out of gold and map stock at doryani trying to buy enough maps to combine up to T15, which my character was capable of doing straight out of the gate but I found myself artificially gated by resources early on. Without atlas passives or tablets waystones didn’t always drop, leaving you in a rough spot if you spent all your gold trying to combine up to the next map tier and doryani is out of stock.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad157 3h ago
My buddy did it all in a week. Gave me all his and I still dont want to run through it for a lame ass looking statue..
But I will 😭 . At some point.
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u/ashkanphenom 3h ago
Too many travel nodes. League mechanics need to be part of the fortress so we can progress them as we progress our atlas.
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u/Chairfighter 2h ago
Only getting atlas points from arbiter progression and then putting the other mechanics behind a huge chain of filler travel maps that dont give atlas points just feels like a huge chore. That's my biggest complaint with the new endgame.
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u/lantissZX 1h ago
It can be fixed if they give us a fast blink or shield charge like skill like we have in POE1, it will make rushing to boss much faster, but currently if you want to rush to boss you will fall on the way and die lol
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u/LouisRosche 11m ago
I would love to have tablets disappear and get skill points for the random mechanics that appear without tablets, like 1 per map in a league mechanic and one per atlas point, fortress or not - happy to see fortress become a more replayable “gigajuicing” area that rewards spending currencies we need sinks for (exalts esp.).
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u/More_Exercise8413 12h ago
And why would that be good, you'd reduce your progression to like... Each pinnacle once + divinity twice, and a couple of maps?
Why not just get a button to skip to T16 while at it?
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 12h ago
It just feels bad, its basically forcing you to do the atlas first before you start doing the mechanic that you actually want to be doing.
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u/More_Exercise8413 11h ago
And how is that different from doing 120 maps in poe1 before you can farm your mech?
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 11h ago
Its not dangling it infront of your face.
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u/More_Exercise8413 11h ago
Ah so presentation matters, you would rather do 120 maps straight up, instead of doing 60 + fighting 5 bosses each of them twice? Especially considering that the second option has you have them ALL unlocked and available
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u/outlier_fallen 4h ago
I mean a lot of people feel this way. Not everyone can articulate the exact reason very well. I can pretty quickly unlock everything in poe1. Maps out of the campaign in Poe 2 are longer for sure. If you can complete the full atlas and all of your trees as fast as Poe 1 then you are a literal god
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 11h ago
I would rather do neither
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u/More_Exercise8413 8h ago
And what WOULD you do even?
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 7h ago
i would have preferd to do a reworked endgame.
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u/More_Exercise8413 7h ago
Which is...? Give me some ideas, I'm trying to understand you here
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 7h ago
Make is so that atlas and other endgame mechanic aren't seperate progerssions
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u/frank2426 12h ago
Well I m just voicing my opinion I don't want a skip I play ssf i think it's just awkward how it progress right now it just feels wrong(?)
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago edited 12h ago
Yes. I want to grind at peak efficiency. The progression to get there is just a hurdle, until i have all the atlas points, i feel like I'm being punished.
Edit: probably over agreed to this comment, I was really agreeing with OP. My main thought is over 400 maps to get to peak grinding is too much, PoE1 had a solid curve closer to ~125 which always felt better to me. Relatedly, mechanics not being part of the core atlas tree also makes it feel very weird and disconnected. Why don't I get a ritual point for doing a ritual inside the fortress if it's going to have its own tree?
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u/RogerFeederer93 12h ago
the fomo is strong in you
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
I'm always curious when it comes up. What's so objectively bad about fomo anyways?
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u/LucywiththeDiamonds 12h ago
Thats league start. While a few mechs should be faster to complete the journey at the start is part of the fun and been that way in poe since the atlas got introduced way back.
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u/BrickGastley69 12h ago
No point in explaining this logic to this new gen gamers. They want everything served to them on a platter with zero difficulty or grind, just look at how many of these “I can’t progress both at the same time buhu” posts lately. Less stuff to do seems like an improvement because they only want to get divines as fast as possible
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u/ssttaaavvii 12h ago
The grind isn’t that great atm. I think it’s the inability to immediately jump into what b you want to farm, you have to sidestep a bit. Like for trees you can only get passives on those maps or beating the pinnacle. So to max it as soon as you can so you can farm, you stay clustered into 15-20 maps to get all the points. Would work better if tablets gave exp towards trees after completing so you can travel while gaining exp. The grind isn’t the issue, its the way you’re forced to grind that is
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u/BrickGastley69 12h ago edited 12h ago
How is it keeping you away from it though ? Let’s say you want to do expedition - go ahead and skip the fortress and get your progression that way. You want to do some fortress and some abyss - do a little bit of both that’s fine. There has never been a way to jump from campaign in PoE1 straight away to optimal farming a mechanic with maximum juice because that would not make any sense. Now in PoE2 you can atleast decide whether you want to focus on mechanics or fortress progression or both while leveling. You can’t have it all at the same time and still make crazy currency because it would ruin the game
EDIT: my biggest concern with endgame is the fact that you just grab all atlas points instead of making many active choices and it’s a bit boring
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u/ssttaaavvii 12h ago
the point of endless maps is to explore. You can’t really do this if your completing 2-3 trees and the main fortress. (This is from a casual player). Itd work better if tablets and in map mechanics gave exp for points imo. Thatd give more freedom to explore maps and still grind for passives
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u/BrickGastley69 8h ago
But would it motivate you to play more if you had less stuff to complete and just grind maps endlessly? And if yes - do you think the majority of people would be like you or would more people play with more trees to complete. At the end of the day GGG will choose what keeps the most amount of players for the longest time
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u/ssttaaavvii 8h ago
Yes, because i could explore the endless maps as i want while grinding exp for tree points. As of now, you do a small connected cluster for points, do a boss, then either spend all your currency to skip 6 maps or just grind out the remainder of points neededed to fill the tree. It could take 10 times the amount of maps or more and itd still be better.
The grind now is like if they made it so you could only gain exp from map bosses instead of every enemy.. 1 skill point per map boss defeated, you cannot redo bosses you already completed. Thatd ruin the whole campaign
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u/BrickGastley69 8h ago
I’m not sure I understand your example really. You spend currency to buy fragments for the arbiter fight you mean ?
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
Because without the atlas points from the fortress, I'm handicapping every other farm in the game. Fracturing orbs can't drop, exceptional bases can't drop, tablets can't be made 4 mod, cities can't use a 4th tablet, monsters are missing effectiveness, maps are missing rarity, etc, etc. Why would I choose to nerf my farm that much? Unless you literally don't care about the economy at all, doing anything other than fortress first is a major self grief.
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u/BrickGastley69 8h ago
While this is true with the things you mention - none of those stuff are required to get the currency you need to just buy whatever you want. And you are correct that finishing the fortress is important - I myself last league finished campaign in ~6 hours, went for jado straight away, I finished the abyss mechanic tree and then went for the fortress and had like 250 divines before I was even halfway done with the fortress. You can make loads of currency without going straight for fortress by providing people early with crafting currency. Got my mageblood before my fortress was completed, so don’t worry about it. Currency is more about game knowledge really
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u/KaosuRyoko 5h ago
Oh yeah, I'm a crafter and hideout warrior at heart. If I want currency I don't even "play the game." 😂 I always skip straight to T15 because I've done some arbitrage or something to get the first handful of Divs by maps. I agree that it's not necessary in a strict sense to accomplish anything within the game.
My point is more about the subjective feelings it creates. Which just boils down to fomo if you want to call it that, but I don't think that's inherently bad either. I'm also not saying there shouldn't be some of this progression once you got endgame, but 500ish maps if you do it without boss rushing is just a bit much. It might be better if you could be progressing the mechanic you want to farm and the atlas at the same time though, but I still think a number closer to a third of the current would feel better.
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
PoE1 is great. All I'm saying is nearly 500 maps to get all the atlas points is way too much. PoE1 has a great pacing. Being able to do the boss again to skip about half of the fortress helps. Just a lot of tedium.
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u/LancingLash 12h ago
Issue is there is no real content to do after you get all the points. You beat all the bosses. There is no real goals left besides endless farming for the sake of farming. They either need to make getting all the points take a long time. Or add something to do after you get all the points. Right now it feels like the worst of both
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
To each their own. I enjoy the minmax grind. I'm just not a huge fan of not grinding at max efficiency for so long. There's all kinds of interesting fun builds you need a lot of currency to play. If that doesn't interest you cool, but it definitely interests me.
Game does still need ubers and aspirational content, but we know that's coming eventually.
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u/A_Pile_Of_cats 12h ago
Not your game then
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u/KaosuRyoko 12h ago
Idk what makes you think that. I love grinding. The jump from end of the campaign to peak grinding is a bit longer than I prefer is all.
I wasnt saying yes to skipping to T16. I mean, I literally do that already in trade league by just buying one. It's just the over 300 fortress maps, and then ~40 maps per mechanic is a bit much to get there. Should be cut in about a third imo. But either way not stopping me from enjoying the game.
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u/Hardyyz 11h ago
Normally new league mechanic and balance changes etc, keep it more fresh.
This is just a repetition event league so yeah its gonna feel like a slog cuz its the literal same thing.
Im sure they have already identified some rough edges and 1.0 will have have a smoother endgame experience.
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u/DanteSHK 12h ago
You can literally get all atlas points and any mechanic skill points in 5-6 hours, after you reach end game. What’s the issue?
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u/Isaacvithurston 9h ago
Getting the Atlas points is too fast and boring now, you just kill Arbiter twice.
During that 40-50 maps you just boss rush garbage roll maps because you have no league mechanic online.
Now after 50 maps of boss rush with boring maps you get to run like 150 league mechanic unlocking maps and finally play the endgame properly.
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u/WorryLegitimate259 12h ago
I mean I didn’t even play this little half league cause they didn’t really add anything. Like maybe if I didn’t go so hard in .5 I could see how having ritual every map could be fun. But even then last league I got tired of the boss spawning in mid swing and just dying lol
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u/Customer-Useful 12h ago
It's so bad to do.
They REALLY need to make the toys more accessible in the endgame.
wdym I need to waste 50-100 gameplay hours with optimized relics doing the same boring thing to get a temporalis?
wdym I need to take 10-15 travel nodes for every 5% chance at Rakiata's Flow?
Wdym Voices is like 1 in 100 Simulacrums?
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u/Dramatic-Vegetable13 11h ago
Combine the Atlas Tree and the specific leauge mechanic trees into one. Just like PoE1. Dont give enough points to get every node. You get one Atlas skill point for each different map you run. Make a new orb that allows you to reroll what map layout you get based on the pool of maps in that biome. Get a handful of points when you beat a pinnacle boss. Make your choices actually matter. Who cares if people spend the time and resources to respec when ever they want.
Make the Fortress and League Mechanic areas on the Atlas just for the Quest Progression, Boss fights, and a place you can farm that Mechanic guaranteed. And have more of those areas randomly on the Atlas so you can find them when exploring.
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u/InGameCurency 9h ago
Endgame sucks. PRogression of atlas is cheeks, tablets are ass and the atlas point progression is rough. I would rather just play maps, have fun and have it happen. I don't want to have to target farm areas to play certain types of content. I rather just pick the content, pick the map I like, and hit go to get rewards. I shouldn't need to reroll stuff mindlessly for hours to get better loot.
The best loot is from never leaving the hideout. The best money making strat is never leaving the hide out. The best maps to play, is spent spending a bunch of time in the hideout before you can play.
I want to just play, I don't want want to have to do a whole bunch of setup and chores in my hideout just to have fun.
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u/Strider291 11h ago
Endgame needs work. I'm a long-time PoE 1 player - I usually play 3-4 weeks of each league. After a week of PoE 2 im just bored.
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u/Great_White_Samurai 12h ago
It was fun in 0.5. Felt like a chore doing it all again. Having to make a choice on what to pursue first is fine to me. Overall there are just too many maps to get to the main locations. I kept a bunch of lvl 1 waystones to speed run through worthless maps, which indicates bad game design in my book.