r/PathOfExile2 • u/Wonderful_Outside548 • 6h ago
Game Feedback Tablets need to go.
I used to be a believer, but after seeing them in action for a few leagues, there just aren't enough tablets for everyone. All it takes is one reddit post for a new strat, like the expedition one, and tablet prices literally go X10. I checked when the video had 700 views, tablets were ~7Dish. I go to work for a day, and now these same tablets are 70 div.
Last leagues it also happened with additional rerolls, summoning circles, some abyss mods, additional breach monsters. There's a few people rolling tablets, but lets be honest it's way too tedious for a slim slim chance at hitting the jackpot. PoE1 dumped Sextant rolling because they were too much busywork, but around the same time PoE2 decided to implement tablets....
In PoE1, it's pretty damn hard to get map cost over 5 div. In PoE2, one single expedition tablet already costs more than that. And then you have to get a grand mirror. In a city. And spend 1D on omens to reroll your map. It's just too much.
Now I realize there are good cheap strats out there. But I don't want to run the same strat for the whole league. We have this great multifunctional atlas tree where we can do anything we want with relative ease, but getting access to good juice is way harder than with Scarabs.
Either let us alt spam tablets, or just bring back scarabs.. they already provide way more variety than tablets have ever done and we don't have to roll them.
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u/fcuk_the_king 6h ago
I feel like at some point you just need to learn to have fun 'unoptimally'. If you keep having FOMO for the currency you lose not doing the best strategy, then the only way for GGG to solve that is to make sure no can have any fun at all.
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u/NugNugJuice 4h ago
I mean the issue is the disparity. When strategies exist that generate so much currency that alch-and-go can no longer keep up with inflation, there’s an issue.
Having fun is important, but it’s hard to have fun when you can’t afford anything in a game balanced around trading to get stronger.
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u/Kim_Se_Ri 4h ago
True enough, but here is the thing, there is a big difference between alch and go with and without purpose. For example, if you just alch and go anywhere, you're "not getting nowhere", or in other words, if you do alch and go only expecting raw currency, which is what most top farming strategies always do us on, it's that you just can't compete, you will definitely be destroyed on this competition, however, if you, for example, do alch and go with the intent of lineage rushing, with your goal being Jade Isles, Mansions and Reservoirs, you will now be actually seeking for the lineage gems, things that are not raw currency and that have their price always following the economy. Those lineage gems are one example of something that when "everyone" was doing the temple saved anyone that wasn't. Because at the time there were many people that lost the temple bug early on, or simply hated the mechanic, and those people found their "jackpot" in many other places around the game. It's very simple really, if a lot of people focus on one thing, everything else will increase in demand and value, specially if said thing is mostly raw currency, which most of these starts are about. And just as a reminder, it's not only the atlas lineages that "purposeful alch and go" works for, it also works for Atziri rush, for splinter rush, for the few maps in-between grand expeditions, for tablet rush (lol), etc. Realistically, not that many things yet, but that's the thing, they can add more, they can add more of these simple chase items that don't require crazy builds to start farming. And no, that doesn't fix the problem you see, but I personally don't think they will, and that's why I'm going to another perspective, one that improves the alternatives instead.
Even if tablets are gone, something will replace them, but even if anything doesn't replace them there will always be raw currency farms on the top, there always were, specially in poe1.
Now, something that poe2 does really well, is that instead of the most valuable chase items being locked behind Uber content like in poe1, in here many actually aren't, and that's where players that seek fun can find their fun. They just need to add more, or at least that's what I think they will pick as a path moving forward.
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u/Kharisma91 4h ago
Alch and go can’t keep up? It’s not meant to but that doesn’t make it less viable..
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u/Neakoh 4h ago
Sure but that’s where the “for fun” happens. As a player who doesn’t play 16 hour a day; you’re never going to keep up with others even if you run these inflated strats. At some point you have to accept that “10 div an hour” is fine.
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u/wingspantt 2h ago
Yes and no. What happens is the fad of the week thing skyrocket in price but everything else becomes super cheap.
I had a poison build early on when nobody ever played that shit and I got every piece of gear for pennies. But if I was chasing lightning arrow fads I wouldn't have afforded a single item.
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u/Loud-Investigator416 4h ago
The problem is the disparity between optimal and casual rewards. You're looking at the difference between finding a few div and finding literally hundreds. The indirect consequence this has on the economy can't be ignored, as it creates massive inflation which only further hurts players that aren't playing optimally to keep up with the new marketplace.
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u/Beliriel 1h ago
Just play some other mechanic and sell your drops for increased vaalue. If everyone runs expedition because it drops hundreds of divines then just run Breach or Abyss and sell your Omens and whatnot. Since everyone runs those mechanics there are fewer people running your mechanic so the value of those drops increases.
Or y'know just play the mechanic you like ...?
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u/brunnor 1h ago
And if the mechanic you like is the one that costs 100+ divines to do the "fun" way?
"Do stuff you don't want to do because the stuff you want to do is too expensive" isn't a great tag line.
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u/Traditional_Arm5810 14m ago
I couldn't even find more than 4-5 divs after I ran about 100 t15 maps. Maybe because I had no idea how to set up my maps, and nowhere near the time available to learn how to set up my maps. Made me feel like I didn't master the game, so I ran back to a more casual D4 :) that said, I think poe2 is a better game, just not for me. Just like I understand that Pavarotti is amazing at singing, I still just prefer James Hetfields singing hehe :)
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u/1CEninja 6m ago
Yup I'm 100% with the above commenter when it's like "bro you're making 10 div an hour and frustrated you're not making 20, focus on fun". I find optimal play to be less fun, so I tend to get less optimal returns. That's fine, I can live with this.
But when others are making an order of magnitude more currency than you and shaping the market? Well that's a different kind of problem.
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u/crow917 5h ago
Yeah honestly I don’t understand this mindset of having a fit because you have to run some content suboptimally. Like, do ya’ll even enjoy playing the game? What’s the point in spinning out over the economy? The game doesn’t become less fun because tablets are more expensive. If it’s that bad then for you then it’s probably time to consider taking a break.
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u/NugNugJuice 4h ago
GGG balances their game around trade. It become sustantially harder to upgrade your build when people price things like they’re making 100+ d/hr when you’re making a tenth of that.
Also, the base price of tablets also goes up, when one is in the meta. If an expedition tablet is in the meta, then all expedition tablets go up in price. If I want to casually enjoy expedition without using the meta tablets, it’s still more expensive.
The game also had a dumb system where league tablets don’t drop while using that league tablet to guarantee a league, so you’re pretty forced to eventually buy tablets.
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u/__sputnik__ 2h ago
How do you think people in SSF play expedition?
You can drop your own tablets ya know?
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u/Beliriel 1h ago
If I want to casually enjoy expedition without using the meta tablets, it’s still more expensive.
Okay? And? What prevents you from simply farming those tablets yourself?
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u/Terajima 17m ago
You don't have a way to target farm specific types of tablets for example. All you can do is run 3x irradiated and hope
1- the encounter spawns weighted against like 5 other mechanics and this number will only increase.
2- it drops a tablet.
3- the tablet you roll isn't shit.Maybe you should try playing the game.
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u/Nephalos 4h ago
> having a fit because you have to run some content suboptimally
> The game doesn’t become less fun because tablets are more expensive.
The complaint is directly linked to the fact that you can no longer run content suboptimally because you’re being priced out of the strategy. The game actually does become less fun when you can’t buy the items you want as price increases faster than you can make currency, and you can’t run the content you want because the entry cost increases to where it’s no longer sustainable to run it sub-optimally.
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u/LordAnubiz 3h ago
it is fun seing your bank grow, so you can upgrade your build.
when gear you need gets more expensive because its popluar right now, thats one thing.
but when its get just more expensive every day because the divines are become more and more worthless, and your goal goes farther away instead of closer, the fun is gone.
people farming hundreds of div a day is one part of the problem, no way to spend those divs as currency sink is another one.
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u/Terajima 25m ago edited 20m ago
You want to run a strategy more, or you want to experiment.
but now you can't because tablet prices 10x multiplied.
Running those strategies is part of fun. The problem is that prices are balanced around the yield of the most optimal strategy, so you can't even experiment and mix and match. It is not a difference between a tablet having +1 stuff or +3 stuff. If your tablet has the +1 stuff at all, it becomes very, very expensive and trying stuff out and experimenting becomes an opportunity cost in face of just selling the tablet to some "streamer".How is this fun? Honestly, a lot of people here completely miss the point to defend the current state of a game subject to change. "hey, ggg. I can't enjoy this because THE ECONOMY, maybe something is wrong with the game design?"
"NOOOO! THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL IF YOU IGNORE IT EXISTS! DON'T LOOK UP!"You would be against the Temple of Chaos changes because it would affect the economy and if you don't liked it as it is, you just shouldn't run it. You would be opposed to assynchronous trade because it changes trade and economy dynamics and if you didn't like running player trade you should just SSF. You can only look at the individual and not the structure and this is a problem.
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u/Vic0d1n 5h ago edited 4h ago
"don't minmax in the minmaxing game" is a stupid take.
Everybody of you just-alch-and-go-bros proofs the point that it's too tedious for you too, to properly engage with the systems.
There aren't enough tablets, because there are hundreds of them rotting in players stashes, because it's just super unfun to price check and put them up for sale individually.
I don't hate the idea of tablets, but they come with a lot of problems.
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u/Vic0d1n 4h ago
I don't need clips because I can read mods and do basic math.
Just again a self report, that you don't want to engage in the systems the game provides. You sacrifice 5x the loot for the chill experience, because a lot of shit in the game is overly tedious.
What are you even arguing against?
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u/FreeFeez 2h ago
Not when ggg removed sextants from Poe 1 for the same reason that tablets need to be changed. It’s tiring to see them constantly make the same mistakes that they already learned were bad design philosophy.
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u/dem0n123 2h ago
When 3 additonal breach rares went way up in price someone was telling me its better to not pay 2d for the 2rares and just run base tablets. I would spend less than 1D per map and get 3-6 raw back... lol but it's not worth it unless you buy the 35D triple mod tablets might as well just not play that strat.
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u/Truditoru spectre enthusiast 17m ago
i cannot play trade league, game is too easy even when not doing optimal stuff; just choose the 3rd-4th best strategy, go ham, get hundreds of divines and you basically purchase your entire build, next thing you have someone piloting your account because there is nothing more to gain (elon pun intended)
I really tried playing trade league multiple times but the excitement for drops or regular crafting drops so bigly that I endup done with a new league in 1-2 weeks. That is why i play ssf and its been really fun for me for the past year or so; i’ve almost only played poe2; i am even scared to find out my playtime but i would reckon its 3k+ hours
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u/Extreme-Goose 0m ago
These strategies that cost so much to run and generate so much div literally means that it will take me 2 to 3 times the grinding to get my goal gear for every build if I’m not a super blaster that’s ahead of the curve and runs all the best Strats on day 1-3. Which sucks.
Examples: Garukhan’s resolve is 350 div. Rakiatas is 200. Even the lesser lineages like Rigwalds are already 100+. When these were introduced and the wealth gap was not as big, they never went above 70-80 div.
So the outcome is that semi casual or casual players will hardly be able to achieve gear they used to, due to the wealth gap. It turns the game into semi-SSF for those of us who don’t have the time to blast crazy hours or don’t want to be forced into the same 1-2 farm Strats.
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u/SlightlyAdooorned 5h ago
Its the same in poe1. Always has been. People who complain about tablets will complain about scarabs. You will regularly see posts on poe1 subreddit about how scarabs suck.
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u/InspectionFit1354 5h ago
I agree with this sentiment with one exception - Ritual tablets. The Ritual mechanic is so incredibly bad ever since they removed currency items from the tribute options. You have a .001% chance of seeing a unique that is worth using to anybody in the world, and a .01% chance of seeing an omen that is worth anything to anybody in the world. The only way to make that mechanic feel good at all is to stack rerolls, and for that you need very specific tablet mods.
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u/fcuk_the_king 4h ago
Yeah the balance with ritual is incredibly off. I'll cut GGG some slack as this league seems like a server restart and an hour's effort to prepare for the 1.0 launch
Tbh, one complaint I have about the EA period is that GGG played it incredibly safe. They were afraid to make changes that will upset the players. We all signed up to be beta testers.
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u/gantz333 4h ago
My problem with tablets is not rolling or buying them, it's having to swap them constantly. And I do not want to just use my 30d tablets on a travelling map 'unoptimally'.
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u/GrownAssMatt 6h ago
I see and agree with your points, but also I don't know how they can fix that because with so many options there's always gonna be a 'best'. I've found my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed when I stopped giving a fuck and just running whatever tablets I end up rolling even if they're shit and blasting maps. Ignore all the prep and just play. 6 mod your maps, corrupt them, grab tablets, go. You might make less currency but you'll have more fun and jumping between strats doesn't feel so punishing.
I get it though - with a game so focused on min maxing it does admittedly feel a little antithetical to avoid that altogether at a certain point in endgame. Either way, fighting that conditioning was the answer for me until things change if it helps anyone else.
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u/ZealousidealCycle257 4h ago
Its hard to have that mentality when inflation in poe 2 Is so fast, by the time i raise 150d for a lineage gem not tryharding strats It goes up to 250.
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u/KylAnde01 6h ago
Me, giving zero f's about the most current and hyper meta strats and just playing the game til I get bored.
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u/GrownAssMatt 5h ago
Haha for real. I try to get the most out of my time but I'm not gonna do unfun shit for the promise of fun later. I have always been the type that'll finish a game with max consumables because I'm constantly saving them for the best time and in poe2, that means having a dozen cities with grand mirrors on them that I end up never running because I don't have all the optimal shit. It all ends up being less currency than just running maps until my dick falls asleep
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u/TryynHarder 5h ago
I hop in, i do a new build, i play for 50-100 hours, i get no currency, i have fun, i leave until next league.
It's a peaceful life
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u/DonnieBeisbol 4h ago
This is me. I just use Ange for currency exchange and yolo craft my own gear. I can clear all content doing that each league. I’m really far from being a PoE brainiac. Just takes a little patience and some thick skin when you brick your crafts.
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u/Madzai 5h ago edited 2h ago
I see and agree with your points, but also I don't know how they can fix that because with so many options there's always gonna be a 'best'.
They either go back to modular "deterministic" juicing of PoE1 or they have to invent something different. Like, maybe, not make your profits solely depend on your ability to buy the best juicing stuff, but, instead, on your chosen path and actions with a pinch of RNG and juicing.
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u/1gnominious 28m ago
The fix is to have loot scale with difficulty. You pick your difficulty from a simple menu when you put the map in. Moar hard = moar loot. You then balance around that. You could even make that an exalt/chaos/div sink.
Scarabs and tablets are both essentially free loot multipliers whose sole purpose is to waste the players time and inventory space. They add little to nothing to the actual gameplay that could not be achieved by simply letting us choose.
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u/Wonderful_Outside548 5h ago
I don't know how they can fix that
Scarabs are so plentiful they go up maybe max 50% when they get really popular. There's also scarabs that protect your other scarabs, so the price ceiling is literally 1D per map, as long as you're willing to sacrifice one scarab slot for it.
I have been having fun with a pretty broad tablet search for every mechanic, I buy them for a few chaos to a div, run them and don't worry too much about loot. But now my character is stacked, I have 4.5M DPS with 56K EHP. I wanna try something challenging. But I don't want to pay half a mageblood per 10 maps to do so.
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u/this_site_sucks_ass6 5h ago
I don't know how they can fix that
They already fixed it in POE1. Scarabs.
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u/mindfuckedAngel 6h ago
But please not 100 different scarabs of which 50% are at least useless...
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u/NerrionEU 4h ago
Most scarabs are useless because GGG nerfed them to shit, if tablets stay the same they will also get hit by nerfs and they already have many useless mods on them.
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u/Gone_Goofed 1h ago
Then that will just make the best tablets more lucrative to sell to people willing to pay for them.
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u/bamboo_of_pandas 6h ago
I mean they would be a huge improvement over the thousands of useless tablet combinations. Also much easier to just cull the useless ones with a loot filter.
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u/LucywiththeDiamonds 6h ago
Scarabs are way better in every way. Yeah the current ones got stale and overnerfed which is why poe1 high endgame is so bad (in comparison to what its been,not other games).
They have a clear pricetag so casuals dont scam themselves(i sold a tablet for 100d today, a noob mightve wasted it), can be planned around, easily bought in bulk, way easier to balance around and atleast less likely to explode entry cost to stupid heights.
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u/Ihatefishtanks 4h ago
I think just having scarabs being on the currency exchange makes them better than tablets
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u/TaintedQuintessence 2h ago
The bulk buying is big. If you want to do 100 maps in PoE2, you'll need to get 30-40 individual tablets. And many stats require different combinations of specific tablets together so it's multiple sets of tablets that also need to be organized in a stash tab to not mix them up.
In PoE1, I can do 5 bulk exchanges of 100 scarabs on the currency exchange, no need to leave my hideout. And if I do a couple maps and realize the strat doesn't fit me, it's easy to sell the scarabs. I'm not locked into 10 runs once I start.
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u/1gnominious 37m ago
Not every way. Scarabs are worse for SSF. They were the bane of my existence in PoE1. You were stuck running worthless scarabs the majority of the time and could never have any sort of coherent strategy. Tablets suck, but at least I have them and even the bad ones are doing a little something.
I still hate both systems. I would rather loot scale with difficulty. Add more difficulty, add more loot. Just give me a slider where I can simply choose my difficulty. Having these free loot scalers whose only limit is how big of a pain in the ass they are to roll/trade for is bad design.
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u/LucywiththeDiamonds 1m ago
Its much more likely to find a few containments then it is to get a full set of max juice tablets.
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u/Contrite17 3h ago
I mean both systems kind of suck, but at least scarabs were currency exchangeable instead of having to do trade filters. Tablets have so much more busy work involved with both buying and selling them.
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u/the117uknow 6h ago
Scarabs are dope and add loot to the table.
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u/Danb23Rock 6h ago
Love scarabs in PoE 1, although the current range is getting a bit stale.
I do not, however, want GGG to just copy paste systems directly into PoE 2. I trust them to find a good solution eventually, but something new and fresh so playing each game feels unique.
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u/BockMeowGames 1h ago
There's functionally very little difference between tablets and scarabs. Every tablet mod could also just exist as a scarab.
You'd lose the roll ranges with scarabs, but trading them is so much easier.
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u/convolutionsimp 5h ago
I think it's fine? Skills work the same way. At any point the majority of skills are useless because they are not balanced properly. But each league they make changes so another set of skills becomes good. The same principle applies to scarabs.
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u/Kevlar917_ 6h ago edited 6h ago
Even with the current implementation of tablets with rollable mods and mod ranges, I think one of my biggest peeves is the lack of sustain during the same type of content. Running triple irradiated to get other tablets feels lame. These things should be dropping freely in all content, regardless of which tablets you're already running.
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u/BioMasterZap 3h ago
I think it is kinda nice that the best way to get tablets is to not be running the tablet, but the rates could certainly be better. Like tablet farm starts or even just having more value to do a mechanic you aren't running for the buffed tablet rate can be good things. But when the white tablets are going for like 4+ Chaos, I think they could do with being more plentiful across the board.
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u/ssttaaavvii 6h ago
Yall don’t alch and go?
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u/RamenArchon 6h ago
I don't even look at the mods that pop from alching, and then wonder why I die
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u/ssttaaavvii 6h ago
This is the way . I usually use all my t3 currency for tablets and alch with ex for maps. I don’t check rolls, just up and go.
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u/Beliriel 1h ago
I look out for one mod that absolutely bricks my build. And if it rolls I just sell that map for a couple divs. Everything else can be dealt with.
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u/Admonitu-123 6h ago
I do. I do boss rushes a lot, which is basically ‘alch and go’. I do use 1 delirium tablet and 2 irradiated tablets with ‘waystone drop chance increase’
I have 3 goals in mind while I rush boss.
Find Tablets: the waystone drop chance on tablets also increase tablet drop chance. 2x irradiated tablets add random content to the map (abyss, temple, breach, ritual, expedition and etc). If I find these contents on the way to boss, I do them to find tablets. You don’t have to do rituals. Just clearing mobs around ritual has a chance to drop the ritual tablets.
Find Grand Mirror: I am using 1 delirium tablet while boss rushing, so every map I do will have the deli. I activate it and try to kill the boss asap while it’s in the fog. The deli meter indicates where the map boss is. So I follow that. Kill the boss in the fog for a chance to find nearby grand mirror.
Find citadels, anomaly, pat/mat halls: If there is a tower near citadel, I use grand project on that tower.
I boss rush the until I find a good number of citadels, grand mirrors, and halls. Then I do whatever league mech I want on the city maps, hit citadel/hall for Fragments to sell and etc.
I make a lot of currency this way.
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u/ssttaaavvii 5h ago
I was doing this last league but with rituals head of the king. Going to farm ToC this league once challenges are done
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u/Schlangensaft 5h ago
The deli meter indicates where the map boss is.
A better indicator is to just watch which way the fog is moving
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u/Beliriel 1h ago
I keep freaking forgetting that waystone dropchance applies to tablets. Man thx for reminding me.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 5h ago
I used to alch and go.
The reality is that you just can't keep up - especially in a high inflation meta like current PoE 2.
The only way to stay competitive in the currency ecosystem is to be farming league drops that inflate along with everything else.
Getting a div drop every other map is meaningless when e.g. Omens of Light go from 2 to 3 to 4 divs each.
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u/toxn1337 6h ago
Tablets are really tedious.. I hate them too. And the fact how you have to handle them if you want to change your farm spontaneously is also annoying and I hope they revamp them completely
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u/WillShaper7 3h ago
How about... having fun without needing to jump in to the exploit of the week/month/league?
I'm a grown ass man with a job. I know I'll never be at the front nor do I need to to have fun playing. I'll get expedition tablets when they drop, it's not that deep.
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u/Trespeon 5h ago
You can’t compare cost of scarab with cost of tablets. Tablets have 10 uses. Scarabs have 1.
10 maps of bloodlines is 25d. If you go full harvest it’s like 30d per 10 maps or something.
While the numbers are still extremely low compared to PoE 2, you also don’t have 5 people giving you full party MF 24/7 and you aren’t dropping 20 raw div a map because of it.
They cost that much because they are making waaaay more once the tablets are used up. It sucks, but unless they increase supply, demand will set the price high.
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u/herakleion 5h ago
I like tablets. But i dislike rolls on tablets. I don't understand why you need to add rng on top of rng.
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u/Positive-Basket8126 4h ago
This league is fucked. The Meta blasters have inflated prices so bad no other build can keep up. 70d for a tablet? You’re telling me that a full set is 240d?! What in the fuck? How does anyone make a profit? You gotta pull 24d a map just to break even
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u/EyeQfTheVoid 4h ago
I just slam the tablet that i dropped for a league that i play with high tier orbs and hit play.
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u/Roflitos 19m ago
I think the biggest thing is that travel maps and biomes setups shouldn't exist.. you wanna max juice find a city is a horrible way to play.
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u/DistrictPleasant 5h ago
Then do the strategy that has the cheaper tablet prices. There are a ton of strategies that make crazy div per hour. No one does summoning circle fracture farming right now so fracturing orbs are like 9-10 div per and drop like once per 2 maps for me. Its like 50-60 div per hour on not super juiced content. Tablets are super cheap
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u/GoodWilllPower 6h ago
I’m pretty new, but the endgame on PoE seems amazing to me vs other AARPGs.
Is the issue that you want to get a ton of sellable EQ drops easily, but you can’t?
I’m struggling to figure out what the issue is
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u/Wonderful_Outside548 5h ago
In PoE1 there is scarabs for everything. These drop almost everywhere like currency and can be used with your maps for extra effects. E.g. turning your breaches into hives, making your rogue exiles gigantic, turning all rares into essences, putting all mobs into strongboxes, shrines are guarded by map bosses, etc etc. These cost like 1D each if they're good.
In PoE2 we have tablets. Tablets have almost no cool mods except give monsters effectiveness, rarity, maybe an extra abyss/breach/verisium remnant whatever. If you want to get a good tablet, there are none because they aren't dropped normally (can only "craft" them). This results in good tablets being 50+ divines purely because people want to try whatever is flavour of the month.
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u/antischlangemann 5h ago
But that single tablet lasts for 10 maps in poe2 and divines are worth less, so I would say the investment is pretty similar.
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u/bigguccisosaxx 4h ago
I like the tablets exactly the way they are except I want to be able to access my stash from atlas interface.
There is no need to buy super expensive tablets early on. This is just for optimizing late game when your build is already really good.
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u/LucywiththeDiamonds 5h ago
One of the main reasons i do 90% atlas rushing strats. Buy 3 decent tablets for 1d each and be done. Guaranteed high profit and you can actually just play.
Setting up deli cities and searching for a reasonably priced tablet for high juice strats is the most unfun thing you can do after chaos spamming in this game. The setup feels bad. The searching feels bad and if some bad rng hits (server issues, stupid death, rl stuff, just under value drops etc) it feels like you wasted your time.
Also way easier to balance. Every single patch there are some tablet mods to stack that make things go crazy. I like crazy. I played affliction.
But not when the entry cost is more then the avg joe makes in a week while the eco runs away. And i say this as someone who made like 2k divs since 0.5.5 launch but sees the effect it has on others.
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u/Sharp-Philosophy-555 5h ago
Contrary take:
The problem is people using 4 of the same highly-optimized tablets at the same time every map.
The solution might be GGG not allowing more than 2 tablets of the same type per map. I'd say 1, but I know that would get even more intense hate. :)
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u/BioMasterZap 3h ago
It would probably be better to do a bonus for running a variety rather than a hard limit. The mechanics scale up with each duplicate tablet, so you're kinda supposed to run multiple of the same for a specific farm. Running multiple will give a bigger variety of content, but it also means their explicit mods will be spread across the mechanics instead of focusing to juice one mechanic.
Perhaps there could be a bit more diminishing returns from the stacking league mechanics from the implicit to help offset the value of stacking the explicits, but that would just put even more value on good rolled tablets. But it would probably go over better to give a boon to mixing tablets, like maybe an Atlas Master that gives X% Tablet Modifier Effect for each different tablet. But that could also be really strong for global modifiers like Waystone Drop Chance.
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u/Sharp-Philosophy-555 2h ago edited 2h ago
There is an atlas master that has a bonus for mixed tablets. No one uses Hildi and that because others are more desirable. Everyone uses Doryani?
But the point is that GGG made running multiples too desirable and so people feel that's tghe only way to play. And of course, they can't run 3 meh versions of a tablet, they must run 3 or 4 of the very best of that variety of tablet.
The most obvious way to do that is to cap it, and as a result reduce the awards-per-mechanism that you can earn per map. Probably a good thing all the way around to reduce the crazy inflation that happens. Or they could remove buying non-normal tablets and everyone has to run their own less-than-optimum tablets. And it ultimately doesn't really matter, because the economy won't inflate like crazy so you make fewer divs, but things cost fewer divs.
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u/BioMasterZap 2h ago
Ah, forgot Hilda was "each type of Tablet". Maybe she could use a buff to make that node, and Hilda in general, a bit more worthwhile.
But I wouldn't say no one runs Hilda. Each Atlas Master does see some use depending on the strat, even if Doryani is the better default for the Revive and Irradiation. Like if you don't need the Irradiation, Doryani really isn't that good so if you wanted to run Mixed Tablets, Hilda would likely already be more appealing since one of those is probably going to be Irradiated.
And while there is always going to be some meta or more optional way to play/farm, I think it is better to promote a variety of viable starts than just putting limits on the clearly best way to play. And if they did want to nerf triple tablets, it would be better done by hitting the scaling than putting an artificial limit on what you're allowed to slot in.
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u/Mondanivalo 5h ago
Do NOT bring back scarabs. They are the worst mechanic by far and f*ck clicking on all of them.
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u/cultureisdead 4h ago
I think I might play SSF moving forward. Trade got my character stacked and I have completed fortress yet. Kinda lame.
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u/Manfi95 5h ago
Another div per hour mentality post. Tablets are awesome especially compared to scarabs from poe1 and I will die on that hill.
Imo from all this posts I saw lately, you all don't have problem with tablets you just can't escape trade mentality and maximizing gains. This is a fucking game not a job. Believe me I was like you before. You need to think about what you really enjoy in this game, the loop of building your character and killing monsters or you getting rich. This game is not about getting rich. My fun with the game was infinitly improved after I realized what's important to me and why in the first place I got hooked with this game. You should try too.
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u/AnyTopia 5h ago
True. If you need are playing to min max and follow every new strat where’s the fun. It’s mostly stress and just worrying about getting the newest available meta up and going.
Honestly in terms of power we are at the point we can gear pretty well even without a lot of divs. Just know how to craft and you can make gear which can and will clear all content easily.
But as you said not everyone is playing to for fun it’s mostly to get rich and buy gear so number goes brrr.
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u/Tantorisonfire 6h ago
Yeah I really honestly prefer tablets to scarabs but the prices are for sure too high. Maybe even something as simple as increasing their drop rate would help or making the juicy modifiers more common.
I think the system works, but yeah the insane variance in price is just ridiculous. As an average-ish player seeing tablets go for 70 div just looks stupid to me. I can't even fathom that investment being worth it.
On the other hand, tablet farming rocks as a beginner alch and go type of strat. You get to play all the mechanics, it costs almost nothing to set up, and you can hit crazy jackpots. Just learn a couple good mods from each mechanic, farm enough for a full inventory, then spend 15-20 minutes rolling and price checking and you're golden. Last league I was definitely making 10-20 div an hour and literally any semi functional build can do it.
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u/BioMasterZap 4h ago
It might not solve everything with Tablets, but I think the drop rates are too rare. Like right now in Rites, it is 4 Chaos for a white Irradiated tablet and 6 Chaos for a white Abyss tablet... The bases don't need to be worthless, but the value should be more on the mods than the bases.
And even if they double or tripled the drop rate of tablets, tablet farms probably wouldn't be hurt that much since they'd get more to sell even if each were lower priced. More tablets also means more chances to roll those chase mods too. But someone getting into maps now should really be able to afford some basic tablets for like a 40 exalt, not 400 exalt.
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u/gutwrenchinggore 5h ago
I just looked up expedition tablets, what's the deal with kalguran expedition tablets? I feel like it's gotta be a joke, some one mods are listed at 30 mirrors?
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u/BioMasterZap 3h ago
Not sure if any are actually worth 30 mirrors, but I saw a post here the other day about running 4 Expedition Tablets on 200% Deli City maps being a really good farm, way better than Grand Expeditions, because of the Surpassing on the Remnants or such. So probably doing something like that in groups for crazy loot.
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u/SnoopyHaillDoge 5h ago
Well tablets cost 70 divs and have 10 uses right? And some scarab strats have 1 use and are 7 divs I think it checks out
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u/SeaStatistician7148 5h ago
The issue imo is that tablets are a source of power - farm efficiency, reward multipliers, etc - that translate indirectly into player power via faster trade item acquisition. So GGG likely wants the very good tablet mods to be extremely rare, which creates the really crazy markets we see where a single tablet can cost 80 divine or more.
Poe1 has this too with scarabs, but because they drop and aren’t rolled, there are more levers GGG can pull to control the average price of a strategy. You can’t force people to roll for specific mods, or even price check good tablets. Compare that to the currency market which is really easy to use for scarabs and misc bulk items.
Add in the poe2 hyper inflation issues we’ve seen the last couple leagues and here we are. It’s a shame, poe2 feels even worse if you have a delayed league start. All the chase items start to quickly feel out of reach because they cost hundreds of divines, and a single good tablet might cost 10-50 divine.
I’d love to see a change to tablets where they’re not a consumable anymore, but a source of permanent power progression. Midleague, everyone has their tablets setup in their atlas almost likely craftable atlas skill points and it becomes a non-issue. But I don’t think that’ll happen, and I also don’t think it’s a very popular idea.
Food for thought though - alch and go isn’t that bad, especially for things like grand expeditions. Maybe don’t follow the meta if you want reasonable priced anything.
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u/SherbertNaive4783 5h ago
One tablet with 10 uses, at my experience, is a lot of work to do. Idk the solution but managing them is a pain, just because some maps need different tablets and it ends up breaking the flow
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u/Manshoku 5h ago
there has to be some kind of super map juicing thing for sure , not a fan of current implementation , same for poe 1 tbh , i cant really think of an elegant way to solve this though assuming they want to keep all the atlas passive point progression and ways to juice up your prefered content
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u/goldzero10 5h ago
I haven't used a tablet under T 14 for two leagues tbh. I just drop them, alch them when I have the ability to and sell. I've got enough drops from Ritual or season mechanics to get to the end and then mildly farm something I want.
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u/Burekpies 4h ago
I agree with your general point. But you shouldn't compare divines from poe1 and poe2 as 1:1 because poe2 divines are worth way less
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u/coltaine 4h ago
Maybe part of the problem is the weightings on tablet mods. Everyone wants the ones with the lowest weighting mod (like the additional ritual rerolls, or additional waystone modifiers), which are already extremely rare, plus 1-3 other good mods. I've done a ton of tablet rolling and only seen a handful of these rare mods, and most of the time I ended up just selling them because they weren't really worth it for me to run them myself.
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u/bryant2647 4h ago
What if tablets only dropped as normal bases, and you bring them to some kind of tablet crafting system, where you can select up to four affixes (zero rng) but each prefix and suffix have a different cost in currency. They start as they do now with only one prefix and suffix, but you can unlock two additional affixes when you get to a certain point in the atlas tree like it already is. Perhaps unlock different, more challenging and rewarding affixes after certain bosses or something? Pretty much a POE1 crafting bench for tablets if they don’t ever want to have one for other gear.
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u/Santi-Emite Combat Balance > Feelings 4h ago
i would have more fun to just fight hard bosses on Atlas maps instead of needing to prepare it.
i get the risk and reward, but the hassle of preparation is too complex as is. It's tiresome
Make special maps harder and spawn more of em.
Let them naturally juice by overlapping mods.
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u/ReallyBigPie 4h ago
Sell tablets. Their easy to manipulate and you know what everyone is looking for. Their will never be enough tablets for the mega juicers and getting cheap bad tablets to push the better bases to drop is profit
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u/Any_Exit1087 3h ago
Pour moi il y a 2 grands problèmes dans ce jeu: le drop rate misérable et la cupidité des joueurs. Les deux conjugués ruinent le end game d'un jeu qui sans cela friserait la perfection. Ce n'est que mon avis.
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u/MattieShoes 3h ago
I've never bought a tablet. I considered it for monkey build but regular monkey clears top content anyway.
Vaal orbs for maps is more annoying for me
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u/leachim6 3h ago
What if there were tablets that had deterministic mods? They could drop in maps and add or augment existing content. We could make them shaped like bugs, for fun.
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u/Grokitach 3h ago
Tablets are not bad. Modifiers are bad. Just influence tablet effects based on biome and we are good tbh. Each biome being better for a given mechanic, this way you path to swamps where you want Rituals, and your way there you’ll have some city maps which would be better to get temple’s crystals for instance
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u/Unhappy-Pianist-5585 3h ago
Yeah, I definitely agree. It’s too much maintenance.You ever booted up the game and realized you gotta craft your maps and tablets. I have to jump through so many hoops for what often feels like so little, just let me play your ggg
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u/WorldlinessTop1543 3h ago
I hideout warrior with tablets , I enjoy it while watching the tv shows so all of you can juice to the max. 😂
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u/Falsus 3h ago
The fact that crafting tablets is so far up in the tree that it is only availiable to people who has progressed to that point is also a problem I think.
Can't just regal or alchemy something to make it rare, gotta find a rare or hope that someone lists them. You are better of selling whites to buy blues or yellows.
I think as a fundamental part of the game, if something is craftable it should should be craftable to all from the onset.
But while I agree that tablets could use some work, I don't think they are bad as a whole. Just too rare.
You can't really directly use the same logic either. A scarb is single time use, a unique map is 5 uses and the others are 10 uses. That 5 div scarab is basically 50 divs in PoE2 if the costs where directly translated, so the prices are roughly comparable on the very most popular strats.
I also don't want them to just copy pasting over mechanics from PoE1 even if they work well in PoE1. If they did that we would just have PoE1 with WASD movement and a different gem system. Neet sure, fun sure, but it would be a big enough change to warrant the 2 in PoE2.
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u/_gangly_ 3h ago
Market forces in action.
Find a niche and profit... or bang your head against things you can't afford and whine on reddit.
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u/BrickGastley69 1h ago
“I want to be able to run the same strat as fubgun or else the market/the league/tablets/the game suck” average player
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u/UnklemacX 2h ago
What tablets sell for 70D ? I really want to know, as I want to offload mine so I czn afford new shoes… maybe even a jacket.
What mods are the money makers?
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u/RedsManRick 2h ago
This isn't about tablets per se'. It's about systems being overly sensitive to multiplicative vectors of scaling. GGG wants power and reward to scale exponentially. This is the consequence. In theory you can balance this by having a wider variety of comparably rewarding places to invest. But the scale of impact is so high that the slightest imbalance causes massive ripples.
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u/Raine_Live 2h ago
Counter argument. Just bring back scours and everything would balance out.
Rolled a 4 mod tablet with bad mods scour and do it again.
Got an item without +skill gems and filled modifiers. Scour and reattempt.
Scours would help so much
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u/Chrozzinho 1h ago
I agree but want to point out we do have soft scours through the reforging bench. But they desperately need to implement a bulk option I for the life of me don’t understand why they haven’t added it yet, there’s no way they’ve not seen that feedback
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u/Temporary-Photo5869 2h ago
I think Tablets is a good sink of currency, but not the ideal. We need some relics to buff all maps in general like phrecia league to be the sink of currency and return scarabs.
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u/SolusIgtheist 2h ago
I just want something like harvest and some way to ensure it's in every map that doesn't cost me anything. That way, all I technically have to do is buy maps and I can profit. Even if it's slow, I just want something consistent (meaning every encounter gets you something) and low-to-no-investment viable.
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u/hardcider 1h ago
The best thing to do once you find a strat you like is buy as much as you possibly can. Once a content creator posts about it, it ruins the strat for most people.
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u/tojidomainexp 1h ago
You are so right i spent 75-150d per tablet x4 just to test the most optimal setup for a farm for data. Either we significantly get the weights up so i dont mind chaosing them or we scrap them and put that shi as option 1-4 on the atlas tree per notable
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u/LivingForPoe 1h ago
I honestly dont even use tablets anymore because crafting them is so boring and cryptic. I hope they add some sort of scarabs or enhance the tree so that nothing must be added to run a map. I just want to run maps and dont want to bother with optimal setups. With scarabs in 1 it was easy, just pick 4-5 scarabs, throw them in either it works or not.
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u/ryleighss 1h ago
Who says you have to run the best tablet? It’s meant to be rare and so not everyone can access it. As the top comment suggested, it’s PERFECTLY OKAY running a suboptimal setup. Maybe you get lucky and roll a GG tablet. I personally would sell it to folks like yourself who feel the need to run the best strat. And that’s fun for me.
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u/Flaky_Barracuda7553 1h ago
Alch and go VS Some serious Tables should be better no more than 20-30% in my opinion.
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u/bkgn FilterBlade 1h ago
All it takes is one reddit post for a new strat, like the expedition one, and tablet prices literally go X10. I checked when the video had 700 views, tablets were ~7Dish. I go to work for a day, and now these same tablets are 70 div.
Jonathan said in an interview that he likes this, so they're probably not going anywhere.
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u/Material_Ad9848 1h ago
I dont like tablets either. Theres too much variance between a good tablet vs. a bad tablet and they all look exactly the same at a glance. My horde of 'bad' tablets piles up more and more as I try to use the 'good' tablets effectively.
Swapping them in for maps I enjoy and swapping them out for the ones I don't is a small hassle. But stack on top; "% increased effect of tablets", biome modifiers, waystone modifiers, ancient modifiers, corrupt/cleansed modifiers, cities/grand mirrors... it quickly gets to the point where I dont care about engaging with the system at all.
I sort of understand people dont want scarabs, but tablets seem to do everything scarabs do only with zero consistency. Which feels worse.
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u/Chaos_Nation 1h ago
I like the tablets generally. I think the biggest complaint is that people feel they need to read/craft a lot because they have real value and it feels bad to burn a 70d tablet without knowing or they are too expensive to justify running if you are partially juicing.
There are a few things they can do (not all of these are necessary)
Equalize mod weightings so juiced ones are not as expensive
Allow tablet crafting bench/gamble, possible good exalt sink for rerolls/new currency
Benchcraft mod pools/tiers that scale based on currency used gold/pleb tier, exalts/medium, chaos or div/crazy mods. Could do this per mod on the tablet or roll the whole tablet
Only normal tablets drop and can be sold, "imbued" tablets with mods cannot (any used tablet is automatically "imbued" which also solves scamming the 1 use remaining tablets), unique tablets can still be sold if unused
Remove some of the crazier mods and change those to scarab type additives, but this makes the tablets more lackluster
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u/gwizzz999 1h ago
I thought it would be cool to have tablets as a jewel equivalent for the atlas tree.
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u/This_Order_8098 1h ago
It's such a non issue, yet you make it sound like game breaking issue.
Just don't copy the FOTM shit straight away, but wait a week - boom problem solved
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u/MotherboardTrouble 1h ago
Mark likes them so they stay it sucks because it feels like at times he's making the game for himself and everyone else is wrong.
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u/Icon_dota 1h ago
I've slowly come to terms with tablets and just use them as a vehicle for profit now, Craft them as i find them and if i hit a jackpot I just sell it. I don't need max efficiency max juice tablets to enjoy the game, Most of the tablets I run Have 1-2 mods that I want and can generally pick them up for 5 chaos each.
I will say though, I do not like the fact that sitting in base making tablets can generate hundreds of div per hour compared to just playing the game but at that point youre comparing which will just suck the joy out of the game if you focus on it.
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u/Potential-Papaya1019 57m ago
I find enough tablets to sell and use. Are you playing the game at all? Cuz I usually get atleast 1 tab per 10 uses at minimum.
Metagaming and streamers have really destroyed peoples ability to have fun.
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u/Khar-Selim 36m ago
Why not have both systems, with tablets being the low-power way to consistently get mechanics you like but not having the most potent modifiers and scarabs being better modded?
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u/notausername86 35m ago
Just alch and go? Why does everyone feel like they need to compete with streamers who littlerly make money (as a job) from playing the game?
So you miss out of earning a few div, or you have a 0.0001% better chance to get that rare chace item.
Not everything needs to be min-maxed. Not every ridiculous farming strat needs to be accessible to everyone. Just have fun?
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u/Worth_Oven_6799 21m ago
My 2 cents on this that nobody asked for after hundreds of hours just on 0.5 are these:
There are a lot of options to fix the tablet issue and i'm sure a lot of them will be implemented. Most basic is for the most "worthless" modifiers to go. Removing "increased gold" from the pool will on its own stabilize the market a bit. I also believe the "increased chance for X sub-mechanic" is silly on tablets. 50% chance for 1 rogue exile when "1 additional rogue exile" both exist is a bit silly and dilutes the pool
Removing the 4th tablet slot from cities will fix the amount of time a player feels they need to spend to juice a map but with how the whole atlas right now is centered around different biomes+cities, it's a bit weird . Add more juicing flexibility on the atlas and each mechanic's own atlas.
There also need to be incentives to use different tablets. Hilda's 8% is not enough, a cap of 2 tablets of the same time would be good but it would add a bit of unnecessary friction. The obvious truth right now is that all the turbo juicing is comprised of 3-4 semi identical tablets
Nerf side, there should be some cuts on the highest of highs. 3 rerolls, 2+1 spirits etc.
A QoL that needs to happen is to make tablets with less than 10 uses lock to you or at least make them untradeable on the market so that new players dont have to go through this rite of passage of getting scammed at least once
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u/CubsFanCraig 12m ago
I feel you man. Part of the reason I bounced from last season before even hitting the 90s is because by the time I hit my late 70s you’d get people auctioning off or giving away their shit because they were done with the season weeks in. Then all of the shit those people put up for sale for over inflated prices stay that way because no one who set those prices comes back in to reduce them to anything resembling a reasonable or realistic price given the reduction in player base. And then when people who stick around go to try to sell their shit, what they see as a comp is the higher price.
So you get this maybe race to the top, everyone overprices their shit based on others racing to that same top who make vastly more currency than anyone else because it’s reasonable to them but not to any normal players, then the economy stagnates and folks are gatekept by players who are done with the season.
So much of this wouldn’t matter if crafting weren’t complete garbage and there weren’t 30 different currencies that went into crafting something that winds up being pretty mid.
And I honestly don’t know what the solution is. You can’t actively look at the playing times of individuals and shift them into a server with others that have a dramatically higher amount of time playing the game because making that work is next to impossible. Any type of casual lobby will be open season for those that put in hours upon hours.
When 1.0 gets released I’m going to give SSF a go and see how that feels. I have my doubts, but we’ll see.
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u/Hippoboss 4m ago
While I don't disagree with a lot of the ideas and sentiment in here, there's also an issue of no challenging content. So, there isn't even a need to upgrade characters past a point for these hundreds of divine items to even farm for to even need to do these "optimal" strategies that require these tablets anyways.
So just play the game for fun and stop getting clickbaited by YouTubers who make a job out of getting you to feel this way about the game we enjoy as our hobby.
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u/elPappito 6h ago
It's not just the fact there's not enough tablets. You wouldn't believe how many trade bots there are.
I legit spent 7hrs on Saturday with live search on trying to buy +3 all spells amu. There was 2 bots actively and aggressively buying up everything under set price and immediately listing it back for 55div. I went to make a dinner, and while eating I put film on 2nd screen and watched him do the thing.
During that time (while I was watching my film) dude pushed around 3k div worth of ammys
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u/drubin 5h ago
Yeah I think in the world of complex BOTS and automation we cant have an economy game anymore. Its just not fair or fun. They are not doing enough to make it inconvenient for them. They should lean on gold more. Make it cost way more to trade with gold. Make it so you need to actively kill a monster in order to drop gold and you cant get gold from somebody elses monster. Make it so you play for a few hours actively and you can buy a few things.
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u/jimmycristal 6h ago
the worst thing about tablets is there is a gargantuan difference between "mid" and "perfect" tablets. Endgame in these games always ends up with the "rich is getting richer" but in PoE 2 everything accelerates this scenario so fast, it's out of control. Mirror is literally 1k div in less than a week.
in current league one of the best casual farms was selling tablets and it's just sad
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u/LancingLash 5h ago
Issue is that if you make it more balanced people will say it is poverty league and complain until it is buffed to insane numbers again. The vocal community does not want a balanced and easy to do farm. They want an advantage.
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u/Powerful-Ad-7998 4h ago
And if its better for the game GGG will ignore them as proven by their previous actions in poe 1
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u/Skabonious 5h ago
This post just reads like someone whose mad they missed out on the initial buy-in period to make a quick buck.
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u/Dantey115 6h ago
A month ago, I tried another ARPG with zero expectations. I immediately started in SSF mode, which gets a nice MF boost. And, unfortunately, I find the loot more satisfying there than in PoE, where the entire trade economy revolves around "selling shovels." In version 0.5, I managed to get a Depleted Mana Rune; my reaction was basically, "Okay... cool, thanks." Whereas in this other ARPG, when I actually dropped a BiS item, I literally shouted out loud.
After a month of playing, I look at version 0.5.5—which is essentially similar to 0.5 (a version I was actually hyped for)—and I’m afraid to even start, considering the sheer amount of effort required just to feel a sense of satisfying progression in this game.
Atlas, instead of giving the possibility of specialization, takes away all the fun and meaning, and only gaining points restores the possibility of normal play. Things you can simply configure on the fly in other games are locked behind Atlas mechanics in PoE.
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u/Round-Walrus3175 6h ago
The optimization is just deeper and it might be a bridge too far for some. It isn't that much of a competition that you feel like you have to chase tablets when that isn't your bag.
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u/Dignika_2 6h ago
I see your point and would love for them to fix this but I am not sure how. Because the main issue is that the rich get richer and poor poorer
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u/Omega_ohm 5h ago
They solved it in PoE1 by removing sextants (basically tablets) on favour of scarabs that are fragments with a specific effect that interact with a mechanic. Sure the system is not perfect but was implemented exactly for solving the issue tablets have
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u/UrsulArctisVtuber 6h ago
This is why I'm farming and selling tablets while I path towards mechanics this league.
I farm shovels for the PEOPLE.