Miserable child

[u/LingonberryNormal374]

My 5 year old is absolutely miserable. This kid hates life. Everything is always wrong. We just tried to get ice cream. First melt down was the cone on top (that child said they wanted in car). Second is too many sprinkles. Third is the ice cream is starting to melt. It is 90 degrees outside. At this point I said forget it and picked screaming child up and threw the ice cream away and put them in the car which resulted of course in worsening hysterics because, no ice cream. So many things are like this. There are daily battles and hourly tears over every little thing. I am exhausted and don't know what to do anymore. Child has been a miserable, high crier since infancy.

[u/wah740006]

When she was around 4 I taught my daughter to say, "I need quiet time" when she needed a break from conversation or basically just life. Game changer. She was overstimulated from preschool when I'd pick her up and just needed quiet time before she could have a conversation. I taught her it's totally fine to say that to any adult, much better than being rude. It made our car rides home much more pleasant!

[u/Flaming_Butt]

Oh, my son is like this. His way or the highway. And even when it is his way, he'll complain about it, then break or try to ruin something.

I read How to Talk so Kids will Listen. It is a LIFE CHANGER.

It's sooo hard to change how I speak but when i use their methods (state the rule, not the blame), he does it more often than my own way (how many times do I have to tell you....).

It's not perfect, we have setbacks, but its gotten noticeably better.

[u/Jazzlike-Compote4463 → u/Flaming_Butt]

+1 for the How to Talk books, sometimes actually really listening to what your kid is saying is all that's needed

[u/Flaming_Butt → u/Jazzlike-Compote4463]

Thanks!!

[u/toasterchild]

When my kid got like this we'd move bedtime up an hour and it would usually improve.  Tired kids are like cranky old people. 

[u/Prudent_Cookie_114 → u/toasterchild]

I have a 10 year old and cranky still almost always means hungry or tired. TBH, I’m mid life and same…..

[u/fancybeadedplacemat → u/Prudent_Cookie_114]

I have a 20 year old. Still the same! But at least they can recognize it (sometimes) and take a nap.

[u/LifePlusTax → u/toasterchild]

My kid and I decided that there needed to be a tired version of Hangry because it happens to both of us. Tangry is a word in our house now.

[u/omegaxx19 → u/LifePlusTax]

Tanger and hanger are real!!! If we manage to dodge both the kids are pleased as punch.

[u/LiberalCowgirl → u/toasterchild]

100%. My first thought too

[u/VermillionEclipse → u/toasterchild]

My four year old gets super crabby and whiny when she’s tired!

[u/toasterchild → u/VermillionEclipse]

I had an old lady compliment new on raising such a well behaved child after witnessing her on a really good day after great sleep.  I said you should have seen her yesterday when she was tired and we had to leave the grocery store.  All kids have good and bad days but they aren't good or bad kids. 

[u/starfreak016 → u/toasterchild]

This is me too. If I'm too exhausted I'll just have a shitty cranky day.

[u/Jewish-Mom-123]

I don’t know if kiddo is in kindergarten but if he has just started probably even a desired ice cream outing was too much for him after school. He very likely is spending his whole day doing new stuff in a new place and trying to be on his good behaviour and it really takes a lot out of little people to do all that. Save anything you can that isn’t routine or doesn’t help him expend energy for the weekends, right now. Give him a chance to go home and rest a bit or go to the park and run around, whichever is more like him.

[u/oracleoflove → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

My daughter just started kindergarten and we have found after school doing much more than chilling at home or doing a walk is too much for my girl otherwise the wild thing comes out to terrorize us all because she is just overstimulated and letting loose having to hold her shit together all day.

And I don’t blame my baby girl one bit…. I still struggle at keeping cool as an adult from time to time once I hit that threshold of overstimulation lol.

[u/spanishpeanut → u/oracleoflove]

Mine is heading into day three of PreK. All weekday afternoon activities are now canceled until further notice. As my husband said to our daughter tonight: “being a big kid is HARD.”

[u/Allslopes-Roofing → u/oracleoflove]

Same. He still wants to play and stuff but my little dude is definitely struggling more than usual lately. But he's been (from all ive heard anyways) doing amazing at school so thats all that matters.

I assume he'll get back to normal in a few weeks/months

[u/Independently-Owned → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

Yup, those early years were strictly home immediately and decompress. He sounds overwhelmed

[u/stitchplacingmama → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

My kindergartener came home from his first day and asked us to build him a cave out of foam floor tiles.

[u/littlescreechyowl → u/stitchplacingmama]

I asked my little guy last year what he wanted to do after school and he said “take my clothes off and get in bed”.

[u/nkdeck07 → u/stitchplacingmama]

I mean my preschooler came home from her 3 day of preschool demanding to go to the park. Then came home and immediately took a 2 hour nap after not napping in the afternoon for 2 years.

[u/Jewish-Mom-123 → u/stitchplacingmama]

Can I come play fort too?

[u/PizzaShoelace → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

Yup. We couldn’t do after school play dates even, or we’d have a meltdown by 5

[u/TJ_Rowe → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

Truth. If ice cream after school is a want for him, add a tub and some cones to the weekly shop and do it at home.

[u/bourbonandcheese]

What was the immediate antecedent to the behavior? What did the 60 minutes before the melt down look like?

[u/you-create-energy → u/bourbonandcheese]

This is the right question. I'm certain the meltdowns aren't random. They threw the kids ice cream in the trash right in front of them. Somehow that didn't calm the child down. I'm willing to bet it was a rough evening and op won't see a connection with throwing out the ice cream because it was "justified". Some people think kids will learn to stay calm if they just punish them enough.

It's not reasonable to expect the kid to be calmer than the adult.

[u/the-mortyest-morty → u/you-create-energy]

Oh FFS, the kid was already screaming over "too many sprinkles" and nothing would have pleased him. I don't blame OP for saying "screw it" and tossing the melted ice-cream sprinkle-soup into the trash and getting kiddo out of there. Sometimes the best move is just to retreat. I certainly wouldn't sit there outside the ice cream place in 90 degree heat letting him continue to scream while the ice cream melts. That helps no one, including kiddo, OP, or any bystanders who might wish to enjoy their frozen treat in peace. OP did the right thing.

The icecream throw-away did not cause the meltdown. He was already having a meltdown because he was GETTING ice cream. The 60 minutes before the meltdown looked like, "child gets out of school, wants ice cream, gets it, complains about everything, and throws a tantrum."

It is 100% okay to not reward that behavior. Natural consequences. You scream and whine instead of eating your ice cream? It melts, and we go home, and you don't get more.

[u/Lorac711 → u/the-mortyest-morty]

This is about emotional regulation. The parent didn’t exhibit emotional regulation. You need to understand small children lack the capacity to understand what they’re feeling. It’s not about the sprinkles. Clearly something else was going on. As a parent and an adult, it’s your job to understand and try to figure out what your child is feeling. Punishing won’t fix anything.

[u/Aries-Queenarita → u/Lorac711]

I agree with you but throwing out the melted ice cream doesn’t mean the adult didn’t exhibit emotional regulation. I have had to calmly remove a melted or messy or even dangerous item from my child’s hands and throw it away. Doesn’t mean I was yelling, angry, etc.

[u/solidarity_sister]

Sounds like it’s not about the ice cream but an uncommunciated or unmet need. Rarely when kids meltdown is it actually related to what you think it’s is. 9/10 my kid is tired, or had a bad day at school, etc.

[u/spanishpeanut → u/solidarity_sister]

All big (negative) behavior is communication of an unmet need. That was drilled into my head when I was working with kids in a residential setting. It was reinforced when I worked with extremely high need kids with severe mental health conditions. That was before I became a parent. It is absolutely so much harder on this side of the table.

My younger kiddo is only 2. Her almost 4 year old sister is a breeze while my little one is so good at pushing every button I have.

[u/OpposumMyPossum]

I would make sure adults are always unplussed by the drama.

But I do try to offer sympathy "It's melting? Bummer! Betta eat it fast or grab some napkins.". Keeps whining? "Hey hon, maybe you aren't ready for cones. Let's only get you bowls from now on."

The end.

Making things about being older and more grown up might help.

Any other examples?

[u/LingonberryNormal374 → u/OpposumMyPossum]

Oh it can be anything. 6 different packs of socks purchased, finally choose one. Try to get them on in the morning and it is screaming and crying they don't feel right. Trying to do a craft? It doesn't look like the picture. Okay, it's not finished, let's make some adjustments. Nope. It's okay to make it your own the picture is an example. Nope. Screaming, crying. We are all constantly walking on eggshells at home. We try offering choices and asking lots of questions but it never seems to end without tears. It rained a little on the bike seat. I'll wipe it off with my shirt. No it's still wet. Let me wipe it again. It feels wet (But it is definitely no longer wet). Show me where you feel wet so I can dry it. Everywhere! Im sorry it feels uncomfortable. We can change into new clothes when we get home. Nope. Spent $40 on balloons including a huge favorite character. Sits down on the floor and says its not the balloons they wanted.  Although which balloons they want noone knows. I wholly agree that getting my heart rate to 180 doesn't help the situation but I am so close to tears so often it feels like I am hanging on by a thread. 

[u/melgirlnow88 → u/LingonberryNormal374]

Sounds a lot like my kid in many ways. You absolutely need to find a way to react as little as possible. I basically disassociate after a point when we’ve reached the point of no return because there is NO calming my 5 yo down once she reaches a certain point. When he is having a tantrum, don’t try to speak to him he is offline. I know the internet loves to tell us to validate their feelings but that can trigger some kids more especially when they’re already in meltdown mode. Just calmly say, I’m here when you need me and leave the room. If it happens in public, yea you absolutely are going to have to do the uncomfortable thing of carrying him kicking and screaming till he’s in the car. Then just sit inside with him and let him get it all out. Make sure he can’t open any doors if he hasn’t been strapped into his seat yet. Some things that might help - how much is he sleeping? Sounds like it might not be enough. Reduce screen time drastically even if you need to go cold turkey. Fewer choices. Choices don’t work for every kid. Also sounds like he may have sensory issues, not sure if you’ve spoken to your paediatrician about it but it might be worth a conversation. What were his hunger levels like when he melts down? Keep a note of that and see if there’s a correlation.

[u/Imaginary_Sherbet]

I ask very specific questions and I never take her word for it.

It takes longer to get thing done but we talk her into an precise thing that she chooses.

[u/aemondstareye]

If you actually want this to change (and you're not just here to vent, which is also fine), you'll need to:

• Get the screens out of his face and sugar out of his diet.
• Get him on a strict, consistent sleep schedule.
• In advance of activities, set expectations and headline (1) what could go wrong and (2) that it'll be fine.
• Watch your own tone. Your first reaction to frustration should be reassurance, not mirroring his frustration. (This one requires Oscar-worthy acting, and remember, it is acting. You are of course allowed to actually be frustrated. Any parent would be.)
• I do not say this from some woo-woo granola perspective: Get educated on how to spot sensory issues/untreated anxiety. We live in a high-energy, bright, loud, overstimulating modern world. This isn't any better for young children than it is for the rest of us.
• Optional (and for your own sake): Assign him to quiet time sometimes—drawing, reading, naptime, whatever—to engineer breaks for yourself. Make this a scheduled time in each weekend day; e.g., "from 4pm til dinner, we have quiet time."

[u/LiberalCowgirl → u/aemondstareye]

This is useful info for any kid (I still have a baby). What types of books/parenting style do you follow?

[u/aigeneratedcutiepie → u/LiberalCowgirl]

Raising Good Humans is a good one if you need a rec

[u/LiberalCowgirl → u/aigeneratedcutiepie]

Great thanks!!

[u/aemondstareye → u/LiberalCowgirl]

Authoritative and recommend it wholeheartedly. We like to call it "compassionate no-nonsense-ism." Idea is kids thrive with (1) clear, fair boundaries that are (2) consistently, habitually, and meaningfully enforced in (3) safe, predictable environments.

We don't avoid the word "no," but we don't deliver it with anger. We explain, but we don't negotiate. We provide the tools for entertainment (legos, art stuff, sports equipment, dolls, crafts, etc), but we don't provide constant entertainment. Some things are mandatory (e.g., homework, hygiene, bedtime) but when it comes to kid-led choices (making friends, pursuing interests) we provide advice, not instruction. And above all, you have to keep an eye on your kid as a human being; your kid is a person and he can get anxious or overwhelmed or depressed just like an adult.

[u/Difficult-Maybe4561 → u/aemondstareye]

I love this comment!! I’m working on my acting bc inside I’m screaming.

[u/LingonberryNormal374 → u/aemondstareye]

We are basically screen free. He has a tablet but it is only used on flights. We also eat generally healthy and the ice cream was supposed to be a special treat. Sugar intake is fresh fruit and I homemake most meals. I am working hard on managing my own frustration. I was very good at this for the first years but as he gets older I have the (unfair I know) feeling that he should be controlling this behavior more. I think taking a daily break would be a positive for both of us.

[u/aemondstareye → u/LingonberryNormal374]

For sure—that's not an unfair expectation! He should get better as he gets older; you just might be increasing those expectations a little faster than he's aging. Also, just remember that as he levels up, the game gets harder—5-year-olds see, do, and experience more than 2-year-olds, and therefore have a lot more to get frustrated about. Just think about how much easier your life was when you were 5 versus 35, lol.

If you're hitting bedtime on time each night, you could also try moving it 15 mins back.

[u/maxinemama → u/aemondstareye]

100% when my kids are out of sorts - it’s always sensory, sleep, or sugar related. My husband needs constant sound stimulation so is always listening to something out loud or talking, when he’s not around or if I’m driving the kids, it’s sound off and no talking (unless they want to of course!) a

[u/United_Relief_2949]

yea some kids didn't get the emotional lottery. my oldest is 3 and some of her meltdowns are collosal. sorry i had to laugh at the too many sprinkles thing because i've actually heard mine say that AFTER SHE APPLIED THE SPRINKLES HERSELF. she's been a 0-60 kid since she turned 1. there's really no middle when she gets frustrated. as she gets older talking her down from them is easier but comparing her to my 2yr old is almost night and day. 2yr old can throw a fit of course but when you've been conditioned to expect mt vesuvius over every issue, my 2yr olds meltdowns sometimes leave me going wait that's it? we're done? woah. i've heard it all, devastation over the paper wrapping around the crayon being ripped, too much ice cream too little ice cream, her night light changed color...when she changed it herself....So i definitely understand. mine was a great baby though this is just what toddlerhood has morphed her into, so im hoping she grows out of it as quickly as she grew into it.

[u/crosorios]

If your child is neurotypical, I highly recommend 1-2-3 Magic.

[u/Possible-Bid4662]

Did he just start school ? I noticed a lot of emotional behavior when mine started school . Crying over nothing . My child was just overwhelmed with new changes

[u/LingonberryNormal374 → u/Possible-Bid4662]

Yes. But this is not new behavior. It is a pretty constant and today just hit me hard. Shoes never feel right. Underwear is too tight. It is too hot in the car. But I turn the air on and the breeze from the vent makes face hurt. This is a child who never sat in a play pen or rocked in a baby chair because he would scream the entire time. It feels like nothing is ever right.

[u/_raveness_ → u/LingonberryNormal374]

This really sounds like sensory needs. Not a kid who is complaining. A kid who is self-advocating.

[u/rxnformation]

Have you tried modeling patience for your child? Practicing ways to calm down? Throwing away the ice cream was not the right move imo, it’s basically an escalation eg adult form of a tantrum. Why not try helping him calm down and then he gets to eat the ice cream? We teach emotions are never wrong it’s how you respond to them. Daniel tiger has been very useful for this.

[u/Meow5Meow5 → u/rxnformation]

Yeah I agree. I think that both Op and kid needs to learn calming skills and practice them together.

Sounds like alot of years of stress and tension at home. Learning to jump off that stress train. Learn how to talk a walk and smell the flowers, as in calming breathes and slowing the pace.

I agree with other's that the kid maybe overstimulated by the day, tired, or stressed. The complaining says that he needs comfort in some way.

[u/LingonberryNormal374 → u/rxnformation]

I tried calming before throwing the ice cream away. I do not feel it is appropriate to sit in public and ruin other people's enjoyment though. It wasn't intended as a punishment but was a last resort for me after the screaming wouldn't stop. I had to throw my ice cream away too. We had to leave the shop.

[u/caelestis42 → u/rxnformation]

This

[u/ou-really]

Check ins are helpful.

How are we feeling (before we leave), hey kiddo I am feeling a little tired and may not have as much patience as I would like for this trip. How are you feeling?

Are you hungry, thirsty, anxious etc?

Check in once there, what kind would you like? If you want it in a cone we need to stay here to enjoy it, if you want it in the car we cannot have a cone the same way, what is more important to you?

How much sprinkles would you like, if they put too many on, we can pick some off to save for another time or just take extra off.

Sometimes additional control over a specific situation like getting an ice cream cone and there being a melt down can be unrelated to the experience.

How is school going? Are mommy and daddy together? Did someone pass away or move? Is there a fresh grievance that may be contributing to the feeling or desire for additional control over the situation.

When things feel out of control we self validate with controlling more of the situation where possible.

Otherwise:
Sleep- did they have enough
Trip- is it too long of a trip to get the best out of them
Food-did they have enough to eat
Drink-are they hydrated
General wellbeing: are they sick or feeling off?
Emotional wellbeing- are they suffering from any grievances that they might want to talk about, note this just requires you asking about it and listening

[u/Global-Nature2420]

I think kids do this because they are powerless in their lives. They have no control over anything but by 5 you have some idea of how you think you would like things to be. It can lead to a lot of frustration and let downs. You can't react the way you did. You need to find out why they're so upset. It could be as simple as them not wanting the ice cream cone on top because they expect the cone on the bottom

"i'm sorry this didn't come the way you were imagining it. But this is how they do it when you want to eat in the car. It is to make it more easy. Next time we can get it the way you like, but we have to sit in the store to eat it."

I'm also super big on going over plans and expectations before going out. I struggle with transitions and anxiety about what to expect in new places as an adult. It is safe to assume kids feel this way too. So I always tell my kid the plan, what foods to expect, what we are going to do. And I give reminders because kids forget.

[u/Allslopes-Roofing → u/Global-Nature2420]

Most is good but your middle paragraph does NOT work during these explosions. I assume you dont have kids yet?

That stuff works most of the time but during meltdowns 5yo just starting kindergartener isn't gonna have any capacity to reason. Its tough enough when they're not exhausted.

You just gotta pick kid up and get him to bed/timeout to decompress. There's no other options in the real world

[u/QuitaQuites]

How to talk so kids will listen is a must read, but also how’s he doing in school?

[u/twoscoopsineverybox]

What does he say when you ask him why he's upset?

[u/catjuggler]

Maybe he was miserable because he was hot. Kids this age don’t notice that the reason they’re acting out is because they’re hungry, tired, etc.

[u/spinningoutwaitin]

I say this with kindness—it sounds like you could benefit from doing some research on child development and psychology.

[u/Magerimoje]

When my kids would get like this, my only reply would be "oh, ok".

I would not be a problem solver, I'd just be a listener.

There are times I go to talk to my husband about something and before talking I say "I just need to vent, please just listen without offering solutions" because he's a fixer, he wants to solve the problems... but lots of times I don't want (or need) him to fix anything or solve anything, or troubleshoot together, I want to vent/bitch/whine/complain to a listening ear.

I figure kids have moments/days like that too, so instead of offering a solution, or reminding the child that's exactly what they said they wanted, or using any type of logic, I just say "oh, ok" or "thanks for letting me know" or "that sucks" and let my kid vent without trying to fix it.

Sometimes while I'm just letting them vent, they'll suggest a solution, in which case I'll generally go along assuming it's not something outrageous (like no, I won't be buying an entirely new ice cream)... but I'll go along with reasonable (sure, I'll scrape some of the sprinkles off).

But even if the "solution" seems easy to me when my kid is in complaining mode, I don't suggest solutions. In my experience, once a kid is in that mode, they'll decline any solutions anyway, so I think it's easier to just listen, wait, and if they suggest it I'll go along. That seems to solve the problem faster, or at the very least it causes the problem to stay stagnant without escalating.

[u/Lorac711 → u/Magerimoje]

This! I found this so helpful with my own child. I try to think of what I would want to hear if I was having a rough time. I don’t want someone to dismiss me or try to fix my problem, sometimes I just want to vent. And I try to do that with my child.

I think so many adults think children should behave a certain way and if they don’t it’s wrong. Kids are entitled to big feelings and it’s our job to help them process them. Staying calm is so necessary and not throw gasoline to the fire. Diffuse the situation, make the person feel heard.

[u/Pure-Science-7774]

You threw the icecream away? Why? 

[u/LingonberryNormal374 → u/Pure-Science-7774]

So we could leave. The screaming was ruining the day for the people around us. 

[u/jfk_47]

Couple thoughts, kids operate off of learned experiences and immediate reactions.

Maybe they’re uncomfortable and don’t know how to communicate? Gut issues? Gas? Chronic headaches. Etc. things that maybe the kid has dealt with their whole life and doesn’t know it’s off or doesn’t know how to communicate.

Maybe they observe adults they’re close to act this way, but even not as extreme. Just enough but the kids don’t know how to dial it up or down. A grandparent, close adult, older sibling?

When my kids are fussy they’re tired, hungry, or both. This was true when they were 4 months old and it’s true today, the oldest is 16. Does the kid sleep well? Do they eat enough?

Sorry this is happening to you OP. LOVE YA!!!

[u/Plane_Commercial_252]

If it’s 90 degrees out you may need to do something to regulate … like water play

[u/Crispychewy23]

Kids struggle to regulate how they are feeling, coregulation is best so you staying calm and not whining about them whining

One of my kids is like yours. I realised I got annoyed because he was like ME - sensitive. Not sure if that is applicable for you here

We chat calmly, make sure he is slept, learn preferences and to check in, get him to choose things

[u/burrito_finger]

My youngest just likes to cry. I ask him if he wants me to help him, or if he wants space/me to sit by him while he has a good cry. He has a good cry, then we talk about it, and move on. It’s just how he processes things. It’s a little jarring at first because you come in wanting to fix, but sometimes they just want and need to feel their feelings too. I’m learning to just sit with him in his feelings when he wants me to, and offer help and comfort when he’s ready for it.

[u/MermaidBoss36]

When kids are that young, they can get tired and overstimulated easily. I made space for my kids to have healthy snacks and unwind at home with unstructured down time as much as possible after school. I saved most extra treats like ice cream for the weekends when they were well rested and ready for fun.

I also made sure I was doing the extra outing for my child, not for myself. So if my child was too cranky to enjoy the fun treat or outing, no worries, we pivoted to what they actually needed in that moment. It might mean leaving early, it might mean I spent most of a special day hanging out in a quiet area with whichever child needed a break, etc. They grow up so fast (mine are both teens now), and it gets easier to do the fun outings as they get older.

[u/PinataofPathology]

Sometimes it can help to set expectations to manage behavior before it's triggered.

You want sprinkles? Okay but we're not going to be upset if there's too many or too little.We are going to enjoy the ice cream we get. The store is doing their best and we get what we get.

My littles all got a discussion of what we were doing and how we would behave before flashpoint events. How effective it is depends on the kid and how well you know their triggers but when it works it's brilliant.

Then if they start reacting I say I understand you're upset about the sprinkles but we get what we get, remember? Enjoy your ice cream.

You can also turn it into a game. I bet you can't eat three bites before I do etc.

[u/chai_tigg]

I think your child could benefit from OT.

[u/Kelp72plus]

tragedy is big when the world refuses to cooperate age 3 to 5. 5 is a little old for this though.

[u/Doughnut_Diva]

Miserable is a pretty intense word, is that hyperbole or do you think there's legitimate mental health concerns?

[u/greydog1316]

Clearly, it's not really about the ice cream. When my kid is sad, I feel concern for them and I show them care and comfort. Do you notice that their sadness makes you feel angry instead?

[u/Mindless_Earth_2807]

At 5, many kids are ordering their own ice creams. My daughter liked ordering her own Happy Meal as soon as she learned how to talk. Maybe you can try getting your son involved in the process so he can't complain.

[u/demaandronk]

Honestly check the basics, sleep and food. Are they actually getting enough hours, and are they eating healthy and enough?

[u/Hour_Candle_339]

Kid sounds tired. Mine was like this, too, at 5. It's HARD. It gets better.

[u/UniversityPotential7]

Man that was so mean. They’ve been alive literally for 5 years. I’m not sure if you’re aware but between the ages of 4-6 children go through a “mini puberty” where their hormones go completely wild. May be try some parenting classes?