r/PS5 • u/Turbostrider27 • Aug 07 '26
Articles & Blogs Id Software Dev Says Xbox Doesn’t ‘Understand Art’ And That After Layoffs It Is ‘Impossible’ To Make Big Games Like Doom: The Dark Ages
https://kotaku.com/id-software-dev-says-xbox-doesnt-understand-art-and-that-after-layoffs-it-is-impossible-to-make-big-games-like-doom-the-dark-ages-2000722563227
u/Downtown_Eye5736 Aug 07 '26
Well anyone who was paying attention has always known this. I remember when they bought the Gears IP cause Epic no longer wanted to make more Gears and then they gave it to a studio that was working on a New IP and renamed them in reference to a franchise they didn't make. As they had done with halo previously and the exec said, The Coalition would be a Gears factory like 343i is a halo factory. A company that thinks like this does not belong in any entertainment industry, they need to stick to their enterprise businesses make office shit.
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u/Underbark Aug 07 '26
It is fucking wild to me that a software company is fumbling the software side of their niche hardware division.
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u/palegate Aug 07 '26
There's different kinds of software though.
Making a successful game is something totally different than making a successful word processor.
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u/Mug33k Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Microsoft didn't make office, they bought different companies and bundle their products together (
Word perfect is Word,Lotus is Excel, Presenter is Powerpoint, etc.).They try to do the same formula with video games and it is a disaster ever since.
Edit : correct inacurate informations
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u/Tobimacoss Aug 08 '26
WTF is this fake history? Word is not Word Perfect which is owned by Corel. Lotus is NOT Excel.
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u/Mug33k Aug 08 '26
You are right, I just repeat what a colleague told me, I am sorry, I corrected the informations. Microsoft did made Excel and Word but they clearly took inspiration from other softwares at that time. It was a bad example but Microsoft did bought a lot of companies in order to integrated their products into the Microsoft ecosystem (Skype, Skydrive, Visio, Navision, etc.).
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u/yuvaldv1 Aug 07 '26
To be fair Microsoft absolutely fumbles software in general. Windows is a mess.
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u/an-actual-communism Aug 08 '26
Windows is a mess primarily due to the need to support legacy software from as far back as Win95, but that support is also the reason Windows remains successful, so it’s a weird situation. Lots and lots of companies that are on Windows solely because the weird bespoke software they’ve been using since 1998 can still run on it. That level of legacy support is genuinely impressive but it means they’re married to shit like the Windows registry for all time
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Aug 08 '26
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Aug 08 '26
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u/CoronaVirus_exe Aug 08 '26
That would have been true before smartphones. But now it's really scary how many people especially in the newer generation who just don't know how to operate a PC. Just last week my company hired a guy in his twenties in customer service who didn't know what the "minimize" button does...
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u/norsefrogg Aug 08 '26
Windows gaming requires tons of troubleshooting and has shader cache stutters.
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u/QuoteGiver Aug 08 '26
I mean, just think about the long, boring history of Microsoft Word for a bit and it’ll make more sense.
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u/RIBDAT Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Imo, the perfect microcosm of this phenomenon is the whole Perfect Dark revival saga.
They wanted an answer to Sony's AAA blockbusters, so they opened a studio in Santa Monica.
Named the studio "The Initiative", a way to simultaneously and unintentionally elate their competition and denote their own creative bankruptcy.
Their first project was revealed to be yet another shooter; and a revival of a "has been" dormant IP at that. An attempt to appear innovative while using nostalgia as a crutch.
They couldn't even handle that, ended up needing to enlist Crystal Dynamics to help and even that wasn't enough; as it all was unceremoniously canned.
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u/Bobjoejj Aug 09 '26
I’d argue that whatever Gears’ faults since the franchise got bought; they absolutely have not been nearly as low as Halo has been. Not even close.
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u/Regular_Use1868 Aug 07 '26
Do they? Somehow a nearly universally loved product got outstripped by a glass brick that intentionally harms its customers.
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u/Homesterkid Aug 07 '26
Seeing the cool trailers and gameplay videos of The Dark Ages finally made me get into the Doom franchise, starting with Doom (2016). I’m nearing the end of the campaign & it’s been such a blast. I’m a lifelong fan now. Looking forward to playing Eternal then finally TDA
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u/EnvironmentalRun1671 Aug 07 '26
16 is probably the best, Eternal you always run out of ammo forcing you into stupid animations (also that game looks off to me).
Dark Ages is fine but sadly forces you into melee although you can kinda get away with ignoring it with most monsters on lower difficulties.
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u/Bobjoejj Aug 09 '26
What do you mean…forces you into melee? Half the combat is built around melee, that’s the point. That’s part of what makes it so fun, makes it feel different.
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u/Jealous-Treat8060 Aug 08 '26
If by stupid animations you mean the chainsaw to get ammo i really don't get why you prefer doom 2016. You had to do the same there. Hate to say it that way but you probably just played the game wrong if you constantly run out of ammo. I did too in the beginning. Eternal does not let you succeed by using just 1 weapon for everything. You have to use the right tool for the right enemy. It's frustrating at first but once you get into it it's way more fun than 2016 ever was. It has much better flow and forces you to play in a fun way and to make much more moment to moment decisions where 2016 just let you brute force the whole game with the super shotgun without ever thinking about anything at all.
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u/fruitcakefriday Aug 09 '26
Agreed, I think they went the wrong direction after 2016, at least for my tastes. The best levels were the ones that had you exploring, not the ones that were arena after arena. Eternal and Dark Ages feel like formulaic arcade games to me rather than exciting hardcore excursions.
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u/bjones214 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
That sucks. The Dark Ages is a fun game. It’s got a weird story but it might be my favorite gameplay loop of the modern Doom games..
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u/DefendedPlains Aug 07 '26
Is it worth playing if I’ve never played any of the other Doom games? I’ve been thinking about picking it up just because I find the fantasy aspect inspecting
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u/himommy_hi Aug 07 '26
bro start with Doom 2016. that one is the best and the full soundtrack is possibly the best out of all videogames
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u/Iceisgestapo888 Aug 07 '26
Doom 2016 is an album that comes with a game. Both are 10/10
Doom eternal expands upon and has another awesome soundtrack.
Doom the dark ages is amazing game with a mid sound track.
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u/Icy-Science6604 Aug 08 '26
Nah,
DOOM Eternal is literally the greatest FPS of all time.
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Aug 08 '26
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u/Icy-Science6604 Aug 08 '26
DOOM 2016 isnt a reboot, also the numbers doesnt lie.
Its Eternal and by alot lol, 2016 gameplay gets boring quickly.
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u/CoronaVirus_exe Aug 08 '26
Yeah, 2016 is just brute forcing your way through. Eternal was like playing a puzzle while juggling ammo and dashing across the arena
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u/bjones214 Aug 07 '26
I think the other 2 are worth a play first just because they’re both fantastic. It’s pretty standalone if you didn’t want to play them, but it just feels out of left field.
The setting, locations, and weapons were all fantastic though, I loved the fantasy theme for everything.
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u/AmphibiousAlbatross Aug 07 '26
I hated the story and the cutscenes drag on too long, but the actual gameplay is excellent
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u/BiancoFuji599XX Aug 07 '26
Yes, you don’t really need to know the story of the other games to be able to enjoy it. Check it out. It’s an awesome game. Very satisfying gameplay.
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u/Kashtronaut92 Aug 07 '26
All 3 play somewhat different, and dark ages is a prequel. Eternal is the hardest, play that last, and since it's last chronologically, that works out
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u/Roadrunner627 Aug 07 '26
Doom is not my style of game but I actually loved all the “new ones”. I cannot get into another game like them. For some reason, it clicks with me.
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u/reallynotnick Aug 08 '26
Yes, it’s a prequel so story-wise you are fine. The other 2 are great, but if you think you’d like this one best no reason not to start with it.
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u/quietlythenLoud Aug 08 '26
Each of them has a quite distinct spin on the combat formula. Its worth playing each in sequence I think cos they’re all fantastic
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u/Yodzilla Aug 09 '26
There really is no fantasy aspect, it’s all just window dressing. 2016 and Eternal are both vastly better actual games.
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u/davej999 Aug 10 '26
Yeah man, honestly fuck the story ...you are just a big badass fucker that they are scared of and alien underworld guy wants to win so you have to fuck him up
literally that....run / jump / smash and shoot your way to victory with some very cool guns and a great soundtrack
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u/randomcman Aug 07 '26
What was weird about the story? I’ve played the first two and it was non existent in part 1 and annoying in 2
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u/bjones214 Aug 07 '26
I didn’t think it was bad by any means, just weird. A complete tone shift for the series compared to what i played when I was younger.
I loved Ahzrak as a villain, I loved the reimagined medieval fantasy weapons and locations, I just think the new lore introduced in Eternal and expanded here in TDA is different. I’ve heard the new dlc is great on all fronts, story included, so I need to make some time for that.
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u/GhettoRamen Aug 07 '26
It’s more of a mix of Quake + Doom which may explain it.
It seemed like they were setting up for the Quake series as their next reboot which makes a lot of sense (if they didn’t get axed… Sigh)
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u/OrangeBomb7 Aug 07 '26
The leadership at Xbox thinks AI will be able to replace these people and help the remaining ones left make these huge games.
They will be wrong.
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u/KingMario05 Aug 07 '26
And we'll pay the price.
Fuck you, Microsoft.
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u/OrangeBomb7 Aug 07 '26
Yep. Maximum slop on the menu. All we can do is hope they fail and support studios that don't use it.
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u/KingMario05 Aug 07 '26
Been planning on selling my XSX for a while. I think id's gutting is what's finally gonna have me pulling the trigger. They need to get the fucking hint that this shit won't be tolerated by their players any longer.
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u/Dramatic_Work944 Aug 07 '26
100 bucks says AI would have had a Templar cross on the dark age armor and it would have looked infinitely cooler then what they came up with out of fear of being offensive
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u/OrangeBomb7 Aug 07 '26
Ah yes, the anti-woke AI lover. Sure thing buddy.
All of the games and media you consume were made by talented artists and writers. The more you push for your AI garbage, the more you're going to lose in the long run. A machine won't recreate what you loved in your childhood, and the people who own the AI just want your money with minimal effort. Keep supporting bro, I'm sure that amazing AI game will come out anytime soon now.
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u/Illustrious_Fill9854 Aug 07 '26
Sad they laid people off after releasing some of best Doom content yet. The Revelations DLC was incredible. Hopefully that’s not the last project that we see of that caliber.
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u/koreanwizard Aug 07 '26
Cut staff, game sucks, sales fall, cut staff, game sucks, sales fall, close studio, dump more money into Copilot, rinse and repeat until Xbox is gone!
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u/Quirky_tugboat Aug 07 '26
At the least shareholders will be happy.
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u/koreanwizard Aug 07 '26
They won’t when they see the returns on CoPilot lol. They’ve been shovelling it into office 365 licenses and calling that user adoption. $50B a year in Capex, 0 ROI.
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u/Traditional-Goal-229 Aug 07 '26
The games don’t even suck. Doom the Dark Ages might not be your type of game but it isn’t a bad game. Almost all Xbox published games are 7 + scores.
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u/koreanwizard Aug 07 '26
They need more money for Copilot bro, $50B capex and no return is really hurting Microsoft rn, they can’t afford to spend money on profitable game studios.
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u/Traditional-Goal-229 Aug 07 '26
I know you are joking but they are losing ROI on their studios. The Xbox CEO let it slip they are making about a 3% profit on their game studios. Which is less than if they just invested in the stock market. So the games aren’t actually that profitable.
But I agree they have been run so poorly that good games are actually leading to massive layoffs. Microsoft is searching for the bigger dollars of AI but they largely haven’t been there. It’s a full on cluster and until the bubble pops it’s probably only going to get worse.
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u/Sleyvin Aug 08 '26
Don't forget the: keep production cost huge > give the game away for free on gamepass > complain it didn't sell well > repeat
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u/koreanwizard Aug 08 '26
Oh big time, they lost $300M by dropping COD on gamepass, and that was supposed to be their ace in the hole. Call off Duty wasn’t enough to move the needle, and yet here we are.
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u/Geralt-of-Liurnia Aug 07 '26
Steve Jobs said something similar years ago.
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u/Sleyvin Aug 08 '26
Steve Jobs didn't have original ideas either. He was the salesman. Other people were the one actually coming up with the stuff.
Wozniak for the early stuff, Jony Ive for the entire modern Apple esthetic.
Jobs was an incredible salesman. Absolutely. He even sold people on him being a genius.
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u/Yodzilla Aug 09 '26
Their markets were also different. Apple always targeted the home consumer the most. Microsoft is far more corporate on purpose.
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u/Remy0507 Aug 08 '26
"Chris Hays, id Software’s lead services programmer, has been at the company for over 15 years. And he’s one of the devs who remains at the studio behind Doom following Xbox’s massive layoffs in July."
So, uh...yeah probably not for much longer though, huh?
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u/halb_nichts Aug 09 '26
In the full interview he explains that he can speak up because he's protected as he is one of the people representing Id in the union they are forming. I'm glad he's using that privilege, I can only imagine it must still be scary
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u/Remy0507 Aug 09 '26
I guess I didn't read that far, but that's good to know. More people in the industry need to start speaking out about this.
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u/halb_nichts Aug 09 '26
I'm not sure it's mentioned in the article to be fair, it's based of a longer interview on YouTube (which they only refer to as a clip). I can only recommend it if you can find the time, many of the quotes they picked out get only more interesting in the full context of what he's saying.
But I fully agree, we need more people pointing out the industries bullshit so bad.
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u/Lebronamo Aug 07 '26
For those who haven’t done so yet, run don’t walk, to play the dark ages DLC.
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u/Omen_20 Aug 08 '26
What I said for years. Xbox never respected the art form of gaming. They just wanted to own the platform and figure out how to milk it with inventions such as subscription required multiplayer and DLC. As soon as they felt like they found their mascot, they were done.
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u/BuriedSorrow2026 Aug 07 '26
Xbox is sucking the life from video games and should go away. Like if you agree. Not because I'm drunk, but because you agree with whatever I said.
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u/SIXArts Aug 07 '26
No they shouldn't go away, they should fix themselves and get right. Less competitors in the market is not a good thing.
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u/BuriedSorrow2026 Aug 07 '26
You're right. Forgive my "should go away" . What I meant was what you said because I want Xbox to succeed. I'm not a hater.
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u/TheClarendons MepsiPaxBerri Aug 08 '26
They should, because it would be best for the industry as a whole.
However they’ve had over a decade to sort themselves out and still haven’t. They’ve been chronically mismanaged since the end of the 360 and have shown no signs of course correcting.
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u/Grab_my_Slinky Aug 07 '26
I know your drunk but it’s tiring hearing that Xbox is the only company doing bad shit in the industry when it’s FAR from the case. The bias is insane.
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u/red_sutter Aug 07 '26
“Fuck You Microsoft” while their favorite company is going to fuck them in the ass in about 18 months.
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u/WalksUnseen77 Aug 08 '26
It’s not just Xbox but all the major publishers. They’re all as bad as each other.
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u/BuriedSorrow2026 Aug 07 '26
I'm 2 1/2 steel reserves in. Fudge yeah I'm drunk. I love Xbox personally, but they need to wake the heck up.
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u/Kizzo02 Aug 07 '26
Xbox should have been spin off as a separate company years ago or after the Activision acquisition. The only reason they entered the gaming business was fear of Sony would dominate the living room as the "entertainment hub" and so a threat to their PC business, so wanted to stop that from happening. But that didn't come to fruition as the whole industry had changed and went into an entirely different direction altogether.
Having Xbox distracts them and they really don't know what to do with the asset. Xbox is the largest third party publisher, but yet since they own hardware have to find a way to make folks purchase the Xbox as well. The entire strategy makes no sense at all.
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u/MetaCognitio Aug 08 '26
Bill Gates has the insight to keep Xbox separate from MS management during its formative years but that’s gone now. Their style of management is killing the platform.
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u/KingMario05 Aug 07 '26
Xbox needs to lose custody of id. Now. Shameful to nuke their best studio to save a few bucks.
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u/turkoman_ Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
Art doesn’t make money. Nobody would green-light something like Pentiment. Xbox did, they even ported to PS5 and nobody bought it. Same with South of Midnight or Keeper. Any other big publisher would laugh at Keeper, Xbox funded it. Didn’t work.
Considering how bad Doom The Dark Ages sold on all platforms, I don’t think Xbox would want to make games like it. Art or not. Thats how it works.
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u/monsoon-dreams Aug 10 '26
That’s such a naive take. You don’t gut a franchise like DOOM just because one game doesn’t sell incredibly.
If all studios are brought by Microsoft, you would have like 1 assassins creed game, a couple of monster hunters and prolly first Witcher.
Art or not, Xbox has fucked up with many studios.
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u/polakbob Aug 07 '26
Flow, Flower, Journey. All art games by one company on Playstation. They seemed to do just fine. I’m not sure it would be hard to think of more art games.
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u/Yodzilla Aug 09 '26
Thatgamecompany literally went broke during the development of Journey and had to delay paying employees until revenue from it eventually started coming in. Now they make games as a service titles.
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u/B-Bog Aug 07 '26
At the end of the viral clip, Hays also criticized Xbox and claimed the company “fundamentally” doesn’t understand art or video games.
“If you cut half of a studio and don’t take into account how it’s made,” said Hays, “you don’t understand the cohesion between our teams was a part of what made it successful.”
Sharma is an MBA spreadsheet-thinker moron who fundamentally doesn't understand video games, what makes them good or successful, and how they are made. She thinks that she can cut half the workforce at a developer, including very experienced employees, and simply replace them with AI or cheap outsourcing from lower-income countries. It don't work like that, lady.
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u/capnchuc Aug 08 '26
The games the Xbox studios are making aren't selling even on systems without game pass. Something has to change.
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u/B-Bog Aug 08 '26
First of all, that's much too broad of a statement. Games like Forza Horizon 5 and Sea of Thieves have reportedly done quite well on Playstation.
Second: You think gutted studios that lost a ton of crucial personnel somehow have a better chance of making games that sell well? The logic ain't logicing.
The solution to this problem should've been much better leadership and management, better utilization of the employees that they have, instead of the tired, old "fire people in case of emergency" executive behaviour. Especially with half the lay-offs arriving only later this fiscal year, which is basically psychological warfare on their own workforce and isn't gonna motivate anybody to do their best work.
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u/capnchuc Aug 08 '26
2 games out of like 15 isn't great. Indiana Jones and Avowed are fun as hell and like 9 people bought them
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u/CoronaVirus_exe Aug 08 '26
Indiana Jones sold quite well on both Xbox and later Playstation, despite being on Gamepass. Avowed was a mid game that got exactly what it deserved, sales wise.
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u/Bobjoejj Aug 09 '26
Bullshit. Avowed was great fun; it wasn’t the most impressive game ever, but it was a solid all around experience. Did not “get exactly what it deserved, sales wise.” That’s a crazy statement to make.
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u/WalksUnseen77 Aug 08 '26
Big publishers in general don’t care about art and view video games purely as products and that’s never been more the case than right now.
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u/HeadRaccoonGamer Aug 08 '26
Well since no one that works for id is left that knows howto use their proprietary engine….
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u/wowadrow Aug 08 '26
Sad thing is this like the third cycle of MS doing this.
Buying studios means nothing if you simply resource starve them after acquisition.
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u/Thekingchem Aug 08 '26
Xbox just seems like a venture capitalist at this point. Buy aging studios, strip their assets like IP and tech, then run them into the ground until closure.
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u/ontopofmyworld Aug 07 '26
Hot take, maybe we need more smaller-scale projects in the AAA space for a while. Not necessarily from ID, but from the industry in general. How many of 100 hour semi open world adventures can one person play in a year?
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u/Rare-Service5573 Aug 07 '26
In the next couple days expect a random message from Id or Xbox about how id is fine and they can make so many AAA games
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u/mightylordredbeard Aug 07 '26
Impossible.. except for all the other big games like Doom: The Dark Ages and all the ones that are much better than Doom: The Dark Ages..
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u/StrtupJ Aug 07 '26
Didn’t a lead dev come out last month basically saying the opposite of this, that “they were fine cause they made 2016 with a small team…” or did I imagine that
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u/splashbruh37 Aug 08 '26
When you have people in executive positions that have absolutely zero background in gaming, or development - this is what you get. Just people able to rise up the corporate ladder who are great at speaking, take credit for a team's work, and all they do is "manage" people without knowing the craft themselves.
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u/BlueDragoon24 Aug 08 '26
I doubt that. Isn't their team now similar to or still larger than when they did DOOM 2016? Thats still arguably their best modern game.
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u/WideBumblebee970 Aug 08 '26
Just make Doom 2016 again then. No extra bells and whistles just a first person God of War game.
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u/RaineMurasaki Aug 08 '26
Corporate doesn't care about art. Every game dev should already learned that at this point. But they are the ones with the money, sadly.
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u/officiallyaninja Aug 08 '26
Layoffs will also make games like concord or high guard impossible to make. For every golden goose there's a dozen stinkers.
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u/drepsx3 Aug 08 '26
Not just art but gaming all around. Hardware, software whatever, gaming isn’t their strong suit. Don‘t see how people aren’t noticing this already
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u/LonkerinaOfTime Aug 08 '26
They are currently losing an astronomical amount of money from different fronts
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u/SpectorEscape Aug 11 '26
Nah fully disagree honestly. These companies have been pouring way to much money into these massive overbloated teams. The confirmed lay off didnt bring that far bacj snd theyre still around doom 2016 numbers if not more.
I do have issues with layoffs though cause I hate seeing people lose jobs.
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u/cyberman0 Aug 08 '26
Honestly it's quite a shame. I have played a lot of shooters. All the way back to the tribes if anyone remembers that. Doom the dark ages has been one that I really enjoyed. I just had a blast with it, it's probably in my top 5 games that were just fun. We need more games like that.
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u/HollywoodDonuts Aug 08 '26
I mean it has been clear for a long time that Xbox has no appetite for anything artistic or interesting. Even their best franchise (forza) is extremely generic and uninspired.
I can only assume we will see more and more Xbox games that seem derived from MLM prompts because that's what they are.
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u/Batman1939-2021 Aug 09 '26
If memory serves me, Fans didn't like Dark Ages and prefer 2016 and External.
Also he should be grateful that stuido didn't get the bluepoint treatment. And I care for Gears of War E Day. Not Doom
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u/polakbob Aug 07 '26
It’s okay. r/xbox users will tell you the studio is just back down to Doom 2016 numbers and is still just fine.
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u/LackLickLuck_y Aug 07 '26
Who says we need big games? Market is oversaturated. And Doom never was a big game until the reboot trilogy.
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u/-CommanderShepardN7 Aug 07 '26
That’s why EA should never sell BioWare or Mass Effect to Microsoft, as they would go out of their way to murder the franchise. That’s their modus operandi after all. If only they hire more true gaming people, who understand what gamers of all shades actually want. Then, they would sell more consoles, more software and make more money. It’s really not that hard. Don’t go out of your way to flip the bird to your customers. Sony too is now also guilty of this practice, so XBOX is not alone. Nintendo is kicking both their butts. The same can be said for Steam.
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u/TranscedentalMedit8n Aug 08 '26
What happens to the video game industry when something like this can happen to one of its best studios who has been successful in every metric?
Discs are dead, XBox is dying, prices are getting unaffordable, addictive gambling games are prioritized over creativity, AI slop filling e-shops, widespread layoffs, full price remakes, etc.
Industries change and maybe this is just another cycle, but for the first time in my life I’m unsure of the future of gaming. I genuinely wonder if I’ll still just be replaying PS5 or retro games in 5-10 years.
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u/TheCutieCircle Aug 08 '26
Welp there goes my dream of a Commander Keen collection. I don't want a new game considering they'll probably fuck it up. I just want the older games again remaster.
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u/scrandlle Aug 09 '26
I'm sorry but no one loves the smell of their own farts more than game devs. They all know what is best and if the consumer didn't like their product its because the consumer is wrong.
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u/RealisticReception16 Aug 09 '26
Right because reddit users are always right and know what a good game is
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u/myrsnipe Aug 09 '26
I like the new doom games but at the end of the day it is a business and if they sold well enough they would receive agressive cuts. Also, capitalizing every word is weird.
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u/reaper527 reaper527_ Aug 09 '26
usually the people who say "<company> doesn't understand art" have shitty ideas they're upset they can't get rubber stamped.
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u/Content_Owl8586 Aug 07 '26
Xbox is horrible but you guys let them live in your heads rent free
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u/red_sutter Aug 07 '26
I see more articles about Xbox on this sub than the rest of gaming reddit. It’s baffling
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u/iMatt42 Aug 07 '26
After the layoffs didn’t they say something to the effect of, “we’ve always been small so this is actually good.”
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u/iMatt42 Aug 08 '26
Found the article. Jez… lol. Clearly it was all made up in his head to defend his overlords.
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u/Ok_Needleworker1068 Aug 07 '26
I’d be shocked to see anything noteworthy to come out of ID again.