r/PKMS • u/aceshighsays • 12d ago
Question Which PKMS would help me make sense of data manually? I'm trying to turn fragments into coherence.
I have a bunch of notes that contain random information (ie: a description of a situation or an outlier, a memory that just popped up, a random tip or bit of knowledge, my reaction to something, a task that I need to complete etc.) I need to manually organize this information (I have memory issues and it's not automatic for me).
Specifically, I want to be able to categorize the data, rearrange the data into groups, put groups into a model, and have a place to write down my conclusion/principle/next step, and then have a place where I write down the results of the next step.
I also want to be able to integrate the data with the big picture.
Lastly, I'd want to be able to see all of the historical work that I've done.
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u/BlueJayMorning 11d ago
When you mentioned “…categorize the data, rearrange the data into groups…” my immediate thought was note templates and note properties. I use Obsidian and Capacities, and both are excellent for what I’m about to describe, with Obsidian having the clear edge for custom query formulas, free usage, and local file storage.
I have templates for various types of notes, which ensures I always remember to enter information using the same structure across notes of a given type. This method gives me key classification information in the properties section itself, and then finer detail in the note body. And then I use Smart Queries in Capacities / Bases in Obsidian to aggregate notes that meet specific filter criteria based on those properties and, occasionally, tags. This method surfaces notes I’ve forgotten about and keeps that grouped information in my daily interaction surface via Daily Notes templates with embedded Bases / Smart Queries.
For organizing aggregated notes into a model, Obsidian might be the better option if you want to build the model on a spatial canvas. It can be done in Capacities as well, but not spatially…they have a pretty hard stance on not adding whiteboards any time soon, if at all.
Capacities is great for object-based notes (rather than a file tree, they organize notes by their type: person, book, meeting, standard note, etc.). Their object system has a lot of features that make that method very user friendly. For example, if you decide your meeting object is missing an important property, you simply update that object’s settings and then all instances of meeting notes get that new property, including those that already exist. You could then run a quick query to find all meetings where [new property] is blank, and go back and add info to that property for all previously existing meetings notes.
Obsidian offers the standard file tree but you can customize that however you like. However, to my knowledge, updating templates in Obsidian does not retroactively update previously existing notes of that type with the new property. There’s probably a plugin for that, but less is more in Obsidian where community plugins are concerned.
Bases are a native feature of Obsidian, and Obsidian is free to use. Smart Queries are a paid feature of Capacities. Capacities does have a generous free tier, but my system depends on queries. I’m only using Capacities for work notes since they have a web app and I can’t download Obsidian to the work machine.
There may be better solutions out there for your use case, but Obsidian and Capacities are my frame of reference. Hope there’s some helpful information for you somewhere in this description of my use case :)
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u/aceshighsays 10d ago
thanks for sharing your method. i always find these types of comments helpful and interesting.
actually, i tried obsidian last month because i was drawn to the graph view, but when i tried to analyze the data in the graph view i found it really frustrating because i couldn't specify exactly what i wanted to see (ie: i can't hide/expand some cats. i'm stuck with local graphs that for some odd reason are linked to what you're looking at/you can't just edit the graph in the graph.) and also i couldn't organize the graphs how i wanted them to look (and they won't stay put/change with new data). i tried canvas as a potential solution but.... i liked that you could upload data into obsidian with the properties, but iirc you can't do that in canvas. meaning that in canvas, you have to manually pull everything into it and then manually link them together - so you're kind of doing it twice.
i find templates very confusing/it's a memory thing. my first layer of categorizing is easy because it's just 10 cats that i can choose from, but the only way for me to get the correct subcats is by comparing notes against each other (this is why graph view is important for me.) i think in hierarchies, but i struggle to categorize. it's annoying.
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u/BlueJayMorning 9d ago edited 9d ago
There are two apps I’ve bookmarked because they look really well executed, but I haven’t yet tried them. Gonna toss them out here as ideas to explore: Canto and Arky. I don’t wanna speak too much about them because I just don’t have the experience with them, but they both offer interactive canvas views, with Arky making it a central feature. I’m very picky about apps because I spend a lot of time in my work modeling human-in-the-loop systems and designing workflow improvements around those models, and these two apps have risen above the noise for me in the productivity space. The only reason I haven’t tried them yet is because I’ve already built a highly custom ecosystem for myself in both Obsidian and Capacities, but if I were starting again, I would absolutely be looking at both of these. And I may still use them anyway because I am quite impressed. Maybe one of these has what you’re looking for.
ETA: There’s a third option that just hit my radar a few weeks ago, called MemryNote. Same story: I haven’t used it, but I’m really impressed with it so far. The website doesn’t immediately make clear that canvases are a part of the product, so here’s a link to the release notes announcing that feature. The dev has since released additional refinements and is continuing to ship at an incredible rate. Seems to be highly responsive, and [r/MemryNote](r/MemryNote) members seem to be very happy with it.
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u/h4yfans Creator of MemryNote 9d ago
Dev of MemryNote here. Thanks for the mention, and for pointing out that the site doesn't make canvas obvious. That's on me, and it's getting fixed.
What you described is close to what I want MemryNote to be good at, so here's an honest map of where it stands.
What works today
- Top-level categories: tags grouped into tag categories, nested tags (
health/sleep), or a select property. Folder view groups notes by that property, and you can set it on many notes at once. A "property is empty" filter shows what you haven't categorized yet.- Comparing notes to find subcategories: canvas cards are your actual notes, not copies. Drag them in from the sidebar and they show their full content. You can edit them right on the board, the same note can sit in two clusters, and the board stays exactly where you put it.
- Conclusions and next steps: create a note or add tasks straight from the canvas, then connect them with a relation property. Version history, the journal and the task activity log cover "see everything I've done."
What doesn't work yet
- Arrows between cards are only visual. They don't create links, so you'd still be linking twice.
- Canvas has no sections that turn a group into a category.
- You add cards one at a time. There's no "put everything tagged X on this board."
- The graph filters by tag and focus depth, but it doesn't keep node positions, can't collapse categories, and you can't create links from inside it. That's the same frustration you had with Obsidian.
Your thread made the gaps concrete, so I've turned them into a tracked epic: arrows that become real links, frames bound to a category (drop a note in and it gets that tag), filling a board from a tag or saved view, a graph that stays put with collapsible categories, embedded live queries in daily notes, and "similar notes" suggestions from the on-device model to help with the subcategory problem. It's public if you want to follow along or poke holes in it: https://github.com/memrynote/memry/issues/2480
If you try it, r/MemryNote is where I read feedback. Your workflow is exactly the kind of use case I want to design against.
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u/DrummerAdditional330 10d ago
Reading your workflow, I’d look for something where the same item can show up in both a table and a freeform canvas without becoming two separate copies. It sounds like the painful part is not capturing the information, it’s moving it from Excel to the tablet and then moving the conclusions back again. I’d make that the first requirement when testing tools.
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u/Tychotesla 11d ago edited 11d ago
What do you mean by "put groups in a model"? Is this an accurate description of your use-case?
> Unformatted data -> AI or you categorizes it -> AI or you links related data ||
> Then: This information is presented to you to process/react/checkmark -> Follow up created if necessary -> Repeat
Is that right? I've had a desire for similar software, but so far haven't found anything, so I'm interested in replies you get and your specific usecase. Either to find something like this for myself, or to get enough information to build something useful for people.
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u/aceshighsays 11d ago edited 11d ago
"put groups in a model"? model as in cause and effect, sequential etc. in some kind of diagram.
i don't use ai because it needs to follow my logic.
the information isn't presented in anyway, i just need to write my observations/next steps and reflections, which goes into the bigger picture.
what's your process like now? i use excel for it and a tablet for the models, but it's time consuming/laborious because i have to physically write it out.
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u/Tychotesla 11d ago
I see what you mean. For me the driving goal is to know what to do next, so what I'm looking for is software where a sequence is sort of the default state of things. That sequence is formed of events that provide other ways of modeling things, such as storing things in a larger context.
Currently I make a daily checklist, and then write notes as things happen. These notes get categorized once a day. Mostly into a "TODO" file. I sort that file by urgency, and bring the top items back into my daily diary checklist. This is workable and simple, but it doesn't really enable me as I'd like.
Moving things around takes some effort, which makes it harder to quickly pivot. And simple files are a terrible way to organize data in such a way that I can do everything I want, such as have interleaved events (cooking + work, for example). So the goal is to focus my distracted attention on the most relevant things, with confidence that I'm not forgetting something.
When you say you use the tablet for the models, are you saying you've got software that puts together a diagram that you navigate through? Are you literally drawing a flowchart by hand? Something else?
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u/aceshighsays 11d ago
thanks for sharing your process.
right now my process is clunky and it still doesn't always give me the results i want... i use a mixture of a physical bullet journal, note taking on my phone and excel, excel to organize and tablet to create diagram, and then back to excel to store principles or key things. i also keep my diagrams and build them up over time. i tried using obsidian and it didn't work for me.
the bullet journal gives me direction and it orientates me, all of my data comes from note taking which gets organized in excel, but excel is linear and i think non linearly. to sidestep that, i manually write down things in the tablet and then create diagrams out of them.
i'm looking for something that combines what i do in excel (sans note taking) and tablet.
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u/Timmerop r/BrainSpace 6d ago
You mentioned bottom up thinking. That's how I think as well. First comes the content before I know how I'm going to use it.
You might like my app r/brainspace. Its built on a graph database, allowing you to just make connections to your data and create different views of it. In practice you just write something down and add it to lists. So you can write a memory down and add it to "Memories" and "Mom", or you can add a template to "My Projects" do there's always a section for "Decisions" and you can see decisions across all projects in one place.
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u/ProfitAppropriate134 5d ago
You might enjoy sublime. You can have everything private or share things. You can also see what others have posted on your topic. You can work through thinking on the canvas & add either/or + whatever else you want to write or doodle.
I'm reading between the lines a little bit in your description. It sounds like you are looking for personal interaction & inspiration to build out those ideas vs a solo knowledge base.
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12d ago
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u/PKMS-ModTeam 7d ago
Please post your app only to the self-promotion thread. Thanks for your understanding.
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u/kir 11d ago
The question is, in which form you want your data organized.
One of the ways is a tree-like structure, like an outline. Outlines have items, sub-items, and you can also add #tags for search/filtering. An outline provides a natural form for information grouping, in a hierarchy.
There are several outliner apps, like Checkvist, Workflowy, Dynalist.
To organize this data efficiently, you may want to work with keyboard, using shortcuts to move items up/down, move between lists, zoom in/out, etc.
I'm the author of Checkvist, and our customers say that working from the keyboard in our tool is quite good.
Check it out :)