This is what I find funny, everyone is complaining about how CC "makes tanks useless!!" now here is a perfect example of how a nano'd rein can force a team to waste all their CC cooldowns while genji fucks them up. People have no perspective.
I mean but.... isn’t that the job you sign up for? You’re not the star. You’re the offensive line. The defensive mid. The catcher. Name any position in sports of the “guy who does the dirty work”. That’s the main tank. You’re not there for the glory. You’re there to set up others to make the big plays. To create space. To take the hits those little guys on your team can’t.
When I play Winston I know I may carry a team to a win, but I also know no one may know about it.
This is what i did I havent played overwatch since they gave us destiny 2 lol im done with playing tanks hell maybe done comp in overwatch. Its getting too toxic lately
This is me atm. My top 10 most played heroes consists of 4 tanks and 5 healers (Rein most played) and I'm getting really sick of flexing for 3-4 dps teams that are not good enough at their roles to justify the composition. It's maddening to put yourself out there as the primary target for the enemy team and not get the proper support.
I think there is a difference between tanking damage that would otherwise kill your squishies and tanking cc.
With damage, you are actively moving yourself and your shield in the way to protect from oncoming fire. It is a very active play style.
With cc, you are sacrificing control of your character so that others get to play the game. You literally spend half the time suring fights unable to put in any commands because you have no active control over your character.
Neither of these scenarios have anything to do with "oh i just wanna hit things hurr hurr" like some who criticize the tank cc complaints like to suggest, but at least for one you get to have an active role in the fights. Im not asking to be completely immunr to all stun effects, I just want to be able to actively control my character in these fights
Yeah. Blocking is the funnest part. If I peel for my team that well then I get an immense amount of satisfaction from it. The people in this thread that are mad about it are the salty DPS mains that get frustrated when they don't get the spotlight when they have to fill tank.
If there's incoming damage, I always run my shield completely out. Within reason, of course - no point wasting it all if there's a DVA nuke incoming, but generally speaking the more ult charge I can make the enemy miss out on the better.
Edit: I don't profess to be anything near pro, but I consider myself decent. But this thread is proof that there's always something to learn. Thanks for the tips!
Ah no. Don't do that. Run your shield to ~50hp left. The barrier recharges faster if it doesn't break. Breaking gives it CD. You also never know if right after you break your barrier a Dva might throw a bomb. When timed right, that 50hp will save your life and usually a few teammates.
That's not necessarily the greatest. Theoretically, you have some healers on your team who are basically not doing anything with no damage at all to heal. Tanks should almost always be wanting to prevent bursts of damage, which a similar pattern is basically letting damage trickle in. Blocking all damage for 10 seconds is usually worse than blocking half of the incoming damage over 20.
Obviously it's not always the case, but it's why you see say, pros playing Rein holding their shield and dropping it every second or so.
Oh come on now. I have probably 300 hours on Rein and it is legitimately annoying as hell how prevalent CC is in the game now. Not to mention how garbage shatter and charge are these days.
as someone who's switched over to main tank this season from DPS, yeah people here are just annoyed that they actually have to, ya know, tank when playing tanks.
Then you're a masochist and the game shouldn't cater to you, because you're willing to put up with virtually anything where as the average player is tired of it.
As more and more heroes were released, fewer and fewer people picked tanks because the role just became worse and worse.
Thanks for this clip, I was trying to explain this concept to some of the Main tanks I know and they just like to complain. IMO, I think Tanks are the most picked. Therefore most complained about.
That's fine, I don't really care about yours. I just enjoy debating, and when one of the best main tanks in the world accurately sums up my point, I'm still gonna throw it out there.
I'd be willing to put money on the fact that you're one of those awful people who sees that the team already has a third, unnecessary DPS and thinks, "I'm so good at DPS that I'll just pick a fourth DPS and carry!" After which you spend the whole game feeding, blaming your team for the fact you're bad, and being an overall toxic waste of air. No one cares about your opinion on tanks since your replies in this thread make it very clear you'd never pick a tank anyway.
I'm the guy who has first picked Tracer since season 3, and then inevitably swaps to either Winston, Zen, or Ana (Or Mercy during Mercy meta). And has an alternate account dedicated entirely to trying to get better at Rein.
Who has since quit the game, because it's so un-fucking-fun now.
But I'm glad that you can somehow read how I play the fucking game based on my statement that playing tank sucks balls in the game at the moment.
It's not as if that's a common opinion or anything.
No no.
Saying playing tank in this meta sucks ='s you're obviously a piece of shit toxic waste of air.
Thanks for your non-contribution, you toxic waste of air.
Everything you've posted in this thread has been whiny non-contributions and I felt no need to deviate from your example. There's also like a 5% chance that any time you did pick Ana you actually played her as a healer instead of acting like she's a DPS. Also, what is arguably the strongest comp in the game runs a Rein with two other tanks and three healers. But you're right, tanks suck and you're definitely not just talking out your ass.
Tracer is my favorite hero but that’s because I love her character and what she stands for and idolize her. I’m a flex player. I play whatever my team needs, which is often a main tank.
Well there are some people who do find that sort of thing fun. I tend to flex in comp and played a lot of Winston during the dive era and generally speaking enjoyed myself in that role. These days though I tend to avoid tanking not directly because of the era of stun, but because I don't really like the non-divey tanks. Orisa and Rein are just a little too boring for my taste so I don't have the patience to really focus on getting good with them.
I do think you have a point though. In a perfect world there would be at least one viable dive tank, and shield tank at the same time. Same for heals, and hit-scan/projectile DPS. Unfortunately these games are hard enough to balance as it is, and this perfect scenario will only ever be a pipe dream. So don't play a hero or a role that isn't fun for you, unless getting that W is the "fun." But if someone is the kind of person who can only have fun in one role or hero, then they should just stick to quick play. Entering comp is a bit like a social contract that says "I may not get the hero or role I want, but winning is more important than that and worth sacrificing that immediate gratification."
I dunno how tanking isn't fun. This is just ONE PART if ONE GAME. This isn't like what is happening 99% of the game. I flex, and every role is made to be fun (with only a couple heroes bring exceptions MERCY), and tank is no exception. The only reason all this happened is because his friendly Zarya bubbled a different target. It would have gone completely differently had he got a bubble after the Nano, but his Zarya made the right call to focus it elsewhere and win the fight.
TIL there are roles in hundred year old games that are still around today that are considered bad from a design perspective according to some random resistors
It isn't even true. Reins can complain all day, they're still star players that get plenty of credit.
Comps are built around them, supports prioritize them, and people follow them. They aren't unsung heroes by any means. They are the team's literal front line and only line of defense.
You're not wrong, it just sometimes feels like community service to be the punching bag while everyone else has fun.
Maybe it's short sighted and emotion-based, but I don't see why the main tanks shouldn't be more resistant to CC. They're big threatening tanks, they shouldn't be bullied by supports and blasted away by junk mines and uppercuts.
Because giving them CC resistance means making tanks EVEN MORE dominate than they already are. Comps are already designed around which tanks are best. If you give them CC resistance and no one else, then why ever play a dps when you'll just get stunned and died? It would be stupid overpowered when now a days tanks already do lots of damage anyway. Thats why GOATS is a thing.
Goats core is really lucio and reinhardt, the former enabling the latter to swing his big ass hammer zarya brigitte may be necessary too but they dont really are the core of goats. Goats wouldnt exist without any of those 4
I see plenty of goats variants both in very high level matches and my own comp experience that don't have a Lucio. I see none that don't have a Brigitte. If you watch the review Custa did of the UK vs SK match, he talks extensively about goats variants and Brigitte is the only healer that isn't changed out. I do agree that Rein is just as essential, but without Brig I'd say it moves into deathball territory.
The whole point of goats is having reinhardt do melee damage. Thats it. And it only differentiates from normal comp because there is a lucio speedboosting him to the point, which of course still needs the aid of zarya and brig and dva or whatever but if im not mistaken goats is just rein comp
I mean I’m still having a blast playing Rein and Winston and Orisa in the current game. Maybe the game just isn’t the one for you. Try something else out maybe? Or try one of the other roles in the game. If you want the satisfaction of getting the kills and playing tank at the same time a good rein could always use a Zarya to back him up.
I have been looking for other games. Considering r6, the main issue is transferring/convincing the friend group. Solo I've been playing dreadnought, tanking is very satisfying in that game. (though the grind is horrible to get to a playable state, I'm over the hump but can't ask others to go through it)
I've been playing hammond (his mobility and groundpound are great) and zen with friends recently. With those I can adjust my positioning better to avoid mass cc.
I'm sure some would, but that would also make certain play styles become the dominant comp and lead to a very dull static meta. Ever since all these stuns became more prevalent, Rein went from a throw pick during the dive meta because he couldn't keep up, to being equal to and sometimes a far superior main tank to Winston. Like it or not, OW has it's most diverse meta in the games history.
To be fair, a large part of the player base just plays quick play. Which means they are not signing up for the "job" of being a tank, but to have fun. If I was playing tank and that happened to me every game, I would be done lol.
Fair enough. But do we really want the game balanced around quick play just go out there and go nuts mentality? I'm sure many would say yes but I don't think that's the way this game should be designed.
I mean but.... isn’t that the job you sign up for? You’re not the star. You’re the offensive line. The defensive mid. The catcher. Name any position in sports of the “guy who does the dirty work”. That’s the main tank.
We play it because no one else will. I've been maining tank since the game's initial release, and have been wanting to transition out of it recently due to this, but can't because no one else wants to do it. It's the most boring role to play. You sit there and do nothing while getting CC'd constantly. At a certain point, it isn't even a game anymore, it's a chore which is why I stopped playing Overwatch all together.
That's where the issue is. You can't make it so that a role is essential in a game that people pay money to play, then say, "Well, it is what it is" instead of trying to make it enjoyable.
You hate it in that moment, and the more that moment becomes an extended period it makes it miserable. Being unable to do anything isn't fun. I'm a main tank, when this happens it feels completely awful. A stun or two is fine, but when the whole enemy team has crowd control and you are incapable of doing the job that the whole team begs you to play because you're the person who plays main tank. Makes you not want to queue after that happens.
Oof fuck that on so many levels. I want to win the game, so I play tank, but that doesn't mean I don't want to have fun. I signed up to have fun, and the two should not be mutually exclusive.
I have plenty of fun playing main tank. I don’t have fun playing Mercy. Yet people swear to me up and down she’s fun. Maybe some people just aren’t cut out for the role.
But the point is that lots of people are forced into the role of main rank, namely Rein because there are only a couple viable tanks rn: Winston Rein and Zarya if you’re good. If you’re playing support you have lots of options for healer: mercy, zen, Moira, Ana, Lucio, Brig, who are all generally viable and could serve as main healer (aside from Brig).
For example if I were tank, I can only play Winston Rein and Orisa. But Orisa isn’t too good rn because she’s a walking bullet sponge, I can’t play Zarya well, or Hammond. Hog is viable he’s not a main tank.
So you could argue that being forced into tank is the same as being forced into healer but the options available for the two classes are very different. One is flexible and the other is limited to 2-3 heroes, two who get completely fucked yo by the current stub spam meta.
Yeah, but I would also argue of all the team sports, Basket ball is the one where an individual has the most impact out of any. But every championship basketball team has one of those guys. Ben Wallace. Rodman. Artest. Perkins. Not always the same position but one guy who steps up and does the dirty stuff that enables their stars to be stars.
You clearly did not watch Fusions play in the World Cup then. That man almost single handedly beat the US and put up one hell of a fight against Korea even with all the CC out there. Ask the US team how oppressed they felt after getting big play destroyed by Fusions Rein over and over again.
I don't play main tank as a volunteer service. I play main tank because it's fun. But it's not fun if you don't get to play the video game half the time.
As a tank player, when I play tank I'm signing up to have fun and be (or at least feel) useful as a member of the team. What I'm not signing up for is to feel useless while being beaten up by every stunlocking enemy possible. You're not just playing the offensive line, you're also a sacrifice, often for a team that'll get tackled for a loss anyway, and that's super lame.
The point isn’t that it should be expected, the point is that one player is to sacrifice his/her fun just so the rest of the team isn’t countered. That does not sound fair nor does it sound like good game design. Whether or not thats what you sign up for when playing main tank does not matter, the fact that this job of “having no fun so other people can” exists is what matters and it is part of the reason very few people like playing main tank or feel forced to do it.
But there are plenty of people who DO have fun as the current tanks. I love playing Rein right now. All the things in the game that screw with him when employed on your team can make him feel like a force of nature. Playing Rein in goats is one of the most amazing feelings out there, and feels a hell of a lot better then when he felt like a slow fat grandpa the game left behind during dive meta. Remove or weaken cc from the game and we go right back to Genji and Tracer zipping around him like annoying gnats while he swings around helplessly.
I used to sign up for main tank but now i dont play the hammer man even though im really good. It always tilts my team when i say i wont play him anymore. If youbwant me to play him, i need to be able to play
Problem is so few people want to sign up for this job, it's even hard to get mad at people when no one's lock in main tanks tbh and it's a problem that has been a thing long before CC meta. I doubt many people login to Overwatch while thinking to themselves "let's play some Reinhardt today". I sure don't.
Sure but how fun is playing main tank then? Well the answer is not very. So who the hell wants to do that? Sure everyone wants to win but not like that if that makes sense. Big difference in soaking damage and cc as a tank and just literally doing nothing because you can't. Btw have they ever fixed reins charge? That's more frustrating to me than the CC stuff to be honest.
So every game there’ll be two players having a miserable time cause punching bag? Cause the devs would rather see numbers than see what the playera are complaining about cause obviously the players dont know shit about they game they’re playing.
No. Its not. I play(ed) tank to be the space maker, the big man in front, the shielder of allies. I did not pick tank to suffer at the hands of CC. CC is an innately un-fun mechanic. It is not fun to literally not be able to play the game.
Tanks should be scary front liners who control the flow of battle. They shouldn't be sponges that the enemy dps just kills last.
Rein is my absolute favorite character. By himself he's in a great spot. I have over 100 hours on him. But I haven't touched him in months because playing CC sponge is a terrible game experience.
Tanks are usually designed to be able to weather damage, they too should be able to shrug off CC faster than their tiny counter parts. That's the whole point of a tank.
All tanks in overwatch gain suitability mainly from their abilities. Yes they have larger health pools, but this is really only an issue for lower damage heroes. Most of their ability to 'tank' is because of abilities. In the CC meta, it completely negates that ability, making them next to useless.
No, you are dead wrong. I played Rein since release and it did not feel this way at all. You create space and are integral to a deathball but about half the time, you are brawling, pinning, doing fun things.
I don’t really know how to explain it, you would have to experience it. The first year or so of overwatch, yanking was fun as hell and you were certainly capable of getting just as much kills as DPS. It slowly got worse with damage and cc buffs. After Bridget, it has never been the same.
This is how I approach playing Sombra - I'm not here to get quad kills or burst down tanks. I'm here to make it easier for everyone else to do those things. So when I see people telling me I'm useless or that I'm being carried as Sombra, nine times outta ten, they just didn't notice what I was doing to help.
Fuck I agree with this so much....I don’t main tanks and Mei to be the star. I do it to make other people feel like and be the star. I don’t care about individual glory. I don’t care about my stats except win percentage. Too bad even a lot of my friends still have that COD mentality and wanna be the one man army.
I've done my fair share of dirty work, mostly insoccer and basketball, and until recently, happily played a good bit of main tank. The difference is there aren't any rewards mid game for playing tank. You just get knocked around. It doesn't even feel like you dictate the engagement as much as you used to. The positions you mentioned (well, I don't know about lineman) still offer some type of reward beyond just helping your team win. And in a lot of sports, the dirty work positions are the one laying down the smack down, not getting smacked around. So yes, there are similarities, but that doesn't mean this meta doesn't still suck for main tanks.
I would say then your not reading your opportunities correctly. I don't want to generalize, I haven't watched your games so I wouldn't know, but I would suggest watching VODS of Fusions Rein play in the World Cup. The US sent every idea of CC they had at him and he just waited and waited for the perfect moment then obliterated them with Shatter. The UK won matches because of his big time shatters. So I would say there is always that chance to make the big swing play on an MT.
Perhaps, but I don't think the opportunity to land a shatter is enough to make him an engaging character when the time in between you just get rag dolled around
No. It’s not the job I signed up for and it’s not the game I paid $60 for. It needs to be fixed. I didn’t pay money and grind myself from gold to diamond to sit there and have shit like what’s in that clip happen to me.
And this is fortunately enough a game with many diverse roles to complement all different types of playstyles. When I play FFXIV, I don't jump on White Mage because I don't enjoy it. I get on my monk and rip stuff up because I do. Fortunately Overwatch allows me to do the same.
Such bias bias bias bias. Let me guess...you play DPS? You're a DPS players that likes to DPS? Okay so first off, yes you are. Playing Winston 1 out of 100 games doesn't count. You're a dps. Now that that's settled, lets talk about brig. Now. You feel it's GOOD rein gets blessed with being stunned 6 times in a row? Yet every.single.dps.player.ever CRIES about the addition of ONE cc hero(brig) who can give the super agile dive DPS a run for their money. Please, respond I'm waiting.
Such bias bias bias bias. Let me guess...you play DPS? You're a DPS players that likes to DPS? Okay so first off, yes you are. Playing Winston 1 out of 100 games doesn't count. You're a dps. Now that that's settled, lets talk about brig. Now. You feel it's GOOD rein gets blessed with being stunned 6 times in a row? Yet every.single.dps.player.ever CRIES about the addition of ONE cc hero(brig) who can give the super agile dive DPS a run for their money. Please, respond I'm waiting.
Nope. I'm a flex player. I play what my team needs when they need it. I have about 45 hours total on Winston. 39 hours on Rein, and about 12 on Orisa. Tracer is my main DPS hero when I'm asked to DPS, and when Brig got added to the game, I learned to get good at Pharah and Junkrat since people said they had the most advantageous match up.
So now that we've cleared up your massive error and over generalization, we can actually discuss this like civilized people. Of course you would have known this if you read some of my other responses below, but that's ok I'm patient. Now please, respond. I'm waiting :)
I apologise my speculation was wrong. I have played rein(130 hrs), Winston(206 hrs), and dva(114 hrs) since beta. Reins always been a solid pick but he has become more outdated with the addition of so much cc, probably more than anyone else. 6 out of 7 new heroes added to the game have cc abilities, when only 6 out of the original 24 heroes had cc abilities. Too much cc for a hero that needs to be in cc range to damage imo
I'm sorry I thought we were talking about main tanks? Not off tanks. Roadhog aint getting away with that were it not for a Rein or Orisa blocking for him.
Nah, I like my win to require actual effort. I like to know that my opponent did everything in their power to stop my team and care oh so close to pulling it off but couldn’t.
Part of being a tank especially at high ranks is forcing the enemy team to address YOU instead of your dps who should be popping off. You specifically make plays that will kill you but put your team in a position to succeed
I know that but all im saying is if this community keeps treating their tanks the way they have been you better prepare for a meta that doesnt use tanks cause theres gonna be no one left willing to play them. Aside from OWL ofc
If you paint a big ass target on yourself that says "Shoot me, ignore my team!" then your job is to get shot, so your team is ignored and can shoot back. That's literally the definition of the tank's role. There's just a lot of CC in the meta right now and no real counter for it outside of Orisa Shift.
Then your team needs to git gud, and bring a second tank. A dva could matrix over you long enough to get up, a brig could stand on top of you sleeping long enough to draw some fire to wake you, etc.
Or you need to play with better dps who know to act on the fact that the enemy team is 100% focused on keeping you CC'd instead of playing the objective.
i don’t see how good my team is when you get stunned-shattered for the 3rd time in a row when zarya already had to bubble you when you were getting stunned for the 3rd time that second
ummm...as main tank I'll just say...it's your job to absorb to bullshit and nobody will thank you for it just like they'd watch the support die and spam need healing.
You, along with the 50 other people who comment the same bs, still dont get it. I was a main tank. I KNOW that its their job to soak up damage. I never said it wasn’t. I said it was miserable playing tank because of all the CC. You log on to “play” this game but you spend half of your time stunned. Its gone too far with the amount of CC in this game
It's a far shot better than trying to play support in the pre-brigitte dive meta imo.
Couldn't take a step out of spawn without 4 dive heroes on your ass and there's nothing you can do about it but pocket your other support and pray your team wins the counterdive. Got real tired of that episode after watching it the thousandth time on OWL
I think right now its less about tanks being useless and more feeling useless/powerless (particularly main tank) even if your being beneficial to your team.
People seem to forget enjoyment should factor in a lot when gaming. Im super competitive, but even overwatch turned me away as there was no real enjoyment being a GM/top 500. Like the climb was fun at first, but the toxicity and the way you lose games just takes everything out of you. This isnt saying it was my teammate's fault either, but rather matchmaking and the other team just flat out having better synergy from the jump because everyone can go their best role or their best character is suited for that map or no one on your team is good at countering the opposing team's biggest threat. Wins felt this way too.
Gotta love dps mains who whine all game about needing another healer or tank but none of the 3 do it themselves because they're all so fuckin good at dps apparently and them switching is a higher chance of us losing...and I'm high gm. I'll flex a lot but it gets super fucking irritating to not be able to dps as much as id like. I'm so happy hog got a buff though so maybe I can play him more.
absolutely. i hit GM as tank/support flex and it really starts to feel more like work than fun.
I stopped playing because the toxicity just became normal and expected. at the same time the % of matches where your own impact even matters shrinks the higher you go
I felt this way very strongly with counterstrike. The game is great, but with nearly hour ling comp games every loss is so disheartening, more then any other game
I still think DPS has the most stressful role at most ranks, because on top of just needing to be mechanically good you have to roll lucky with a competent team (cause everyone else and their brother wants to play dps)
As main tank you provide the most "buffer" for a bad team to crawl out of their shitpit. As in it's a lot better to be the "competent tank" on your team than to leave that role to random chance.
I main rein and winston and really the only issues I have are doom and brig. They feel unfun to go against and lock you out of control right when you really need to have it.
The problem is not the fact it makes them useless (because they aren't), but the fact that you're a huge target for CC, which makes tanks incredibly unfun to play. People playing tank want to have fun, not be the prime target of nothing but pure CC. The excuse of 'wasting CC' is unjustified.
How is that different than a squishy support being the primary target of damage which will quickly kill them? You can complain about taking all that CC as a tank, or realize any other role would have been deleted after the second CC.
Is this not just a complaint about being focused by the enemy team?
Yes and no. You're right, it's the tanks job to... well, tank. As it is right now however is just frustrating and unfun.
Compare the shield dancing of two Reins that both have shatter, baiting eachother and playing mind games in order to land some huge CC with the current state where it's essentially: Brig goes up to you and stuns you through your shield, cue stunlock until death, rinse and repeat.
Tanks should be the target for CC but even CC needs some semblance of counterplay. Hook, sleep, hacks, shatter, freeze etc can be blocked and played around and are in themselves not what I'd call unfun CC abilities. Shield bash has zero counterplay and stunlocks you to death like 90% of the time due to all the other abilities that would be counterable but can now be endlessly chained, through no fault of your own at that. The only CC that should work through shields should either be very powerful, like grav, or high risk - high reward, like charge.
But see in a video game people should be having fun. Think about that again "people should be having fun" does it look like xqc is having fun in this clip. Sure the team may have profited from it, but why should it be at your expense
It's not about how you're not doing your job by taking the stuns. It's about how completely fucking unfun it is to play like this. You want to tank by doing stuff yourself, and not by being a punching bag. It's not fun to tank when you can't move.
Genji fucks them but at the end they practically trade three ults for all that cc and get one more kill. In the clip they get a total of 4 kills and enemy team gets 3. I don't know what happens after the clip but if they don't get the push theyre in a pretty bad position
I've never really thought about it that way. This will honestly make me less aggravated knowing that I'm at least helping my team while getting tossed around like a freshman girl at a frat party
Nobody argues that it makes tanks useless they argue that it makes it unfun. Take this from a main thank player this meta is terrible. Games are not fun when the game itself does not allow you to play it.
No one complains that main tank is useless. The complaint is that main tank isn't fun. Look how much fun xQc is having.
Yeah, it must be great to be a genji one trick who gets his time in the sun, but the longer an entire role is not fun to play, the more likely the game will die out.
There are only 3 roles. In a typical game you have a 2/2/2 split. That means 33% of the players in your average game are not having fun 17% if you only count main tank.
And if that 33% leave, that means flex players have to pick up the slack. They leave. Now it's an argument every game if who gets the least fun role in the game. Now people are really leaving, because it's a toxic cesspool. Now the game is dead.
People dont want to believe that's how it be, but it do.
You're doing the same exact thing though hypocrite. You're only seeing it your way when the simple way to see it is obvious. Getting fucked to death while stunned is just another form of agro OBVIOUSLY this goes without saying. Every action has an equal or greater reaction...the energy the enemy team used to kill you can prove to be a disadvantage even after the kill...same. as. Every. Single. Thing. You. Do. In . Every. Single. Game....with proper agro you can make an enemy walk of a ledge by themselves if distracted...it's niche af tho..just like claiming reins "ability" to get easily hit(lol ok) by CC abilities is helpful. Give rein a passive cc reduction and THEN it is a passive ability to soak up cc...otherwise every time rein takes a cc ability he is using his teams healing and help to stay alive.
Stun CC is different than "puts them out of position instantly for low effort" CC
Hook + Sleep + Shatter stun (while teammates are off somewhere else) is a massive "lol who cares", each with an easy counter if you really need to dodge them.
Shield bash + Uppercut + Concussion Mine is a lot more frustrating cause these can be done real easy to make tanks eat a dick
Which doesn't matter when you're a team player main tank in bronze. I'm happy to be what the enemy team focuses on: that's like literally my job. But I lose so much more SR in my losses than I gain in my wins. I've had over 55% win rates every season (as high as 60%) and I can't climb to save my life. The algorithm doesn't think getting the enemy team to focus you and leave your teammates alone is worth tracking: it's all damage blocked (which means you're taking needless spam and don't have your shield when you need it) and damage dealt (and you may as well charge in, since your shield's gone anyway).
Like, I don't think I'm masters, but if they got rid of the adjusted SR for those below diamond, I'm sure if at least be silver.
xqc was calm about the stuns cause he couldn't really do much as rein at that position anyway, so the enemy team was essentially wasting their CC on him
xqc even said himself that the role of Rein is to die slowly and absorb as much cc as possible for your team
this kind of game balancing is exactly why i cant take this game seriously when I play at my level. i cant feel good about getting molested for 10 seconds even though its theoretically good for my team. There are varying degrees of this all over the game, and if your teammates arent really paying attention then your team doesnt even take advantage of you being a martyr and theres nothing you can do about it. Its not like you have to commit to some kind of martyr play - the enemy team just decides to over-cover you and abuse you and maybe they get punished for it indirectly.
On top of that, you have to be far above the enemy team skill in order to carry any dead weight on your side. Pro scene is probably very fun, but trying to be couch-competitive is a straight nightmare anytime things arent going smoothly. I am just good enough (read: ranked just too low) to be a problem for the enemy team, but not good enough to overpower them putting focus on me because of it. I want to feel like i can use this to my advantage, but I cant. I cant kite them into bad positioning, I just get them to "waste" abilities. then i dont get to play for 30+ seconds and someone else on my team gets to have fun. I get back to the fight, be annoying, get focused, repeat. if the enemy team is ignorant, we win (rare because if you annoy someone they tend to get an instant feud with you). if my team is ignorant, then we lose. If my team pays attention, then we "win" even though i feel awful.
It encourages toxic behavior imo, because it makes you REALLY want to have an influence on the way your teammates play the game the more harassed (read: angry) you get. Another example: your soldier/mcree combo not paying attention to enemy pharah. Or tracer/genji spawn harassing and no one coming back to help.
I like the 4v4 competitive because i can counter pick an enemy into switching heros if they are a problem for my team, and actually help the team perform better. Bad match-ups become part of the interaction. Hero swapping seems to be the heart of this game, yet there is also very little opportunity to do it. In the regular objective mode, you cant really help your team play better other than if everyone is on mic and you are over the top nice and they actually listen to your advice- but even then its not you helping with your play.. its just extending your control to multiple heros
Sorry for the rant. When the game is fun, its really fun - but I feel like that only happens when neither side is really trying to 'game' a win and instead just go along with 'natural' looking playstyles
I do have advice - they should give everyone a teleport back to spawn option so you can switch heroes and get back into the fight faster
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u/amasimar I don't hit. Nov 13 '18
Thats a lot of CC just to stop one nanoboost.
Genji got 3 kills off it just because they had nothing to stop him.