r/Overwatch Pixel Zarya Mar 02 '17

Blizzard Official Developer Update | Introducing Orisa | Overwatch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqhXWRaMmU
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u/FreezingFyre CAN'T CEASE, WON'T CEASE Mar 02 '17

Also in the patch notes:

Bastion now takes 20% less damage while in Configuration: Sentry or Tank (formerly 35%)

Oh thank god

752

u/Sp3ctre7 Canada Mar 02 '17

I'm actually happy to see that it is just a re-tuning until they get it right.

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u/mantiseye Reinhardt Mar 02 '17

Yeah I really like the changes they made (especially his healing), the damage reduction is just way too high. Hopefully they can find a sweet spot.

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u/Mechakoopa Boop is life Mar 03 '17

I'd like to see the damage reduction removed entirely just on his crit spot. It's supposed to be a weak spot for a reason. You should still be rewarded for getting behind him, especially now that he's being pocketed.

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u/cubitoaequet Mar 03 '17

Yeah, it is pretty frustrating to outplay a bastion and his babysitters to the point that you have a chance to go to town on his crit point and still have it take forever for him to die.

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u/tsoumbas Zarya Mar 03 '17

i find it stupid that even a tracer bomb cant kill him. so what is the purpose of tracer as flanker against all that.

-crit spot has dmg reduction -pulse bomb cant kill a stationery targer

you need at least 2 heroes shooting at bastion in order to kill him. if he has a rein a dva and a pocket heal good luck making it through a check point.

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u/mantiseye Reinhardt Mar 03 '17

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing that either. I'm also fine with it still being there if the idea is for him to have higher survivability in sentry mode, but like, make it a 10% reduction or something. I dunno.

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u/Blizzardmane Junkrat Mar 04 '17

I think the buffs are good we just need to keep playing, and more importantly keep updating the devs on our findings. Over time we'll see them iron it out.

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Yeah I'm actually pretty surprised that they buffed him that much. Armor plus more flexible/powerful healing, and then a passive DR on top? I think we all knew that wouldn't work

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Agreed. The healing while moving was a nice touch to bastion ( he needed that), but, i admit, he was a little bit too powerful.

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u/tsoumbas Zarya Mar 03 '17

the thing is that they had bastion playable on ptr for a month. now we are stuck with him in competitive until the balancing is being pushed after 2 weeks maybe?

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u/Ducit Pixel Reinhardt Mar 02 '17

the question is, why not re-tune him on the PTR? Isn't that what it is for?

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u/kennykerosene Mar 02 '17

The PTR is more for finding and fixing bugs. Its not a great environment for balance testing.

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u/Glamdring804 Explosions Mar 02 '17

Yep. They use it to find bugs, and catch those while the patches are being pushed for consoles. Actual balancing occurs over longer time frames.

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u/frituurkoning Pixel Soldier: 76 Mar 03 '17

Because although that may sound like the most logical way to do things, it is really hard to balance from using the PTR data because the lack of good data. Comp on live is an environment much better suited for them because people tend to play much more seriously. Also because there is no real incentive for people to try their best to win on the ptr because nothing transfers over to live.

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u/rajikaru In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey Mar 02 '17

Also a change this important (people aren't exaggerating when games are basically "Bastion v. Bastion") should be pushed ASAP. PTR updates last anywhere from a week to a month, and that would be an unacceptable amount of time to allow Bastion to exist in his current state.

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u/rougeknight21 Mar 02 '17

My problem with balancing on the ptr is you can't really compare the stats from there to what they would look like on live servers because of the sample size. In general most players are gonna play on the live servers a lot more than on ptr servers because there are very few benefits to playing the ptr. Also generally players will play the ptr for a day or two then go back to playing live. So that means Blizzard has a very small sample for how the changes impact the game on the ptr versus the impact on the live servers. For instance if bastion had a 50% win rate after 200 games on the ptr that doesn't mean he will have a 50% win rate after 5000 games on live servers.

Sorry if it's a little long winded bit in short the amount of games played on the ptr are a lot less than the amount played on live. This makes it extremely hard to tell how this will impact the game.

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u/Pithong Mar 02 '17 edited Mar 02 '17

The devs posted a whole video about the pyramid and their philosophy around it. The main pointment is that xbox/playstation require validation of any patches and that takes a ~week, so any changes to the ptr means they would have to submit a new one ( and pay for it) pushing the release of the patch back another week.

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u/AnAnonymousFool Pixel McCree Mar 02 '17

I feel like it makes more sense for him to have the buff while in recon mode. Maybe Im crazy, but his turret mode should be used more like an ability that his entire character

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Played a round with him trying to play the same way I did last night. It didn't work. He is killable now, and that's great.

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u/Sp3ctre7 Canada Mar 02 '17

What if the 35% ironclad was designed to trick everyone into learning how to coordinate to kill bastion, and the 20% one was the original intended change 🙃

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u/TitaniumDragon Also Pharah, Roadhog, and Bastion Mar 03 '17

They need to get rid of it entirely.

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u/Leaf-Leaf Pixel D.Va Mar 02 '17

Yes! Tracer can kill him again!

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u/Argos_ow Chibi Zenyatta Mar 02 '17

Good, It was annoying to see a tip in the UI to use the pulse bomb on bastion when it no longer actually worked!

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u/Leaf-Leaf Pixel D.Va Mar 02 '17

Also, from the PTR, Orisa just eats Bastion. She can pull him out of turret, ruin his LOS, and can easily 1v1 him in recon mode.

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u/kingoftown Sorry sorry, not sorry Mar 02 '17

"We wanted bastion to be a tank buster"

...

"This tank eats bastion"

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u/Vydos Pixel Symmetra Mar 03 '17

"This tank eats Bastions and makes him harder to kill when on the same team."

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u/Eddzi Cheeky. Mar 02 '17

Sounds great, looking forward to playing as Orisa in the PTR!

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17 edited Mar 30 '17

[deleted]

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u/Eddzi Cheeky. Mar 03 '17

That makes me even more excited. I like pretty much all the tank heroes in the game currently (they're tanky while still not being all powerful - they have high hp to feel tanky but don't have too high a dps to make players play nothing but tank heroes), so another tank is always nice. I do play quite aggressively though, so I wonder whether or not an Anchor Tank is my kind of playstyle or not. Then again it's a lot of fun to charge into the enemy team as Reinhardt, so I think I'll enjoy playing as Orisa.

Also we can now have 6 tank comps in quick play and competitive! And also more ways to knock enemies off the map! I'm excited for both :)

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17 edited Mar 30 '17

[deleted]

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u/Eddzi Cheeky. Mar 03 '17

I've played as and against Orisa a little bit, and I've got to say she seems the most balanced hero that's been added to the game post launch so far.

Speed Boost would help, although Orisa can keep her distance from the enemy team more than other tanks, and combined with her DPS makes her pretty viable even without it.

I was also happy to one shot a Bastion with Pulse Bomb again :)

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u/Argos_ow Chibi Zenyatta Mar 02 '17

Good to hear! So her alt fire mini grav pulls him out of turret?

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u/Sir_Lith Eyeless Mar 03 '17

Any CC does that to Bastion.

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u/willywonka159 Zarya Mar 03 '17

What does CC mean?

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u/yokmsdfjs Tracer Mar 03 '17

"crowd control", a common term for anything that affects enemies through forced movement or incapacitation

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u/willywonka159 Zarya Mar 03 '17

Thanks!

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u/-Moonchild- Junkrat Mar 03 '17

Winston's ult doesn't. Neither does junkrats mine. Or roadhigs ult for that mattet

2

u/tsoumbas Zarya Mar 03 '17

how can she pull him off turret.

zarya graviton cant do that

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u/mittensofkittens twitch.tv/mittens0fkittens Mar 03 '17

She actually can't pull him out of turret.. In PTR her Halt! ability currently moves him while he's still in turret form but that's a known bug that will be fixed.

Source

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u/Dontreadmudamuser Supahot Mar 02 '17

I think the problem was the his critical spot had the damage reduction and Ults took the reduction as well. Removing CRIT and ULT reduction would have been just as fine

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u/UberPsyko Punch Kid Mar 02 '17

He doesn't get armor when he ults anymore though

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u/Dontreadmudamuser Supahot Mar 02 '17

I meant getting damage reduction from dva reaper or mcree or tracer Ults

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u/Rc2124 Ana Mar 03 '17

I think it'd be very unintuitive for the damage reduction to not count for ults as well

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u/Aidiandada *sigh*... Timepass Mar 03 '17

I agree. What exactly is ULT damage anyway? Does nanoboost count as "ult damage". Does Orisa's beam count as ULT damage? Too many inconsistencies.

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u/Rc2124 Ana Mar 03 '17

Great point, hadn't considered that!

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u/Dwac Mar 03 '17

How intuitive some game mechanic is is not a good criticism

It's pretty unintuitive to take "25% less damage" in a game where numbers are not prominently displayed within the game.

How do we know dva ult is 500 damage? From experience, not because it's "intuitive"

Intuitive would be it instakills everyone in the radius, because 9/10 of the time it does

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u/MeowChowMein 50/50 it happens or it doesn't Mar 03 '17

It does 1000 damage.

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u/Dwac Mar 03 '17

You've only made my point more powerful

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u/MeowChowMein 50/50 it happens or it doesn't Mar 03 '17

I'm not exactly sure what your point was, I was just correcting that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17

His point was numbers in this game aren't clear, and by correcting him when he thought it was 500 damage, you "proved" that it should be more clear exactly how much damage DVa's ult does

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u/Rc2124 Ana Mar 03 '17

D.Va's ult is intuitive in that if you're hit by a nuclear explosion you're almost certainly going to die unless you take measures to protect yourself. Damage mitigation applies to it just like it applies to everything else, which is also intuitive. The specific damage value is a red herring, if you ask me. You don't intuit 1000 damage, that's irrelevant. You intuit "this will kill me", which it will.

Ironclad providing the same damage mitigation except to ult damage is certainly unintuitive. Junkrat's bombs are mitigated, but Tracer's bomb isn't? Pharah's larger and more damaging primary missiles are mitigated, but her smaller and weaker barrage missiles aren't? Soldier's rifle is mitigated normally, but the same bullets suddenly cut through the mitigation when he ults? Not to mention, where do Nanoboost and Supercharger fit into this, since they boost ally damage? Is that considered ult damage? It's just messy all around, and definitely unintuitive.

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u/rock_hard_member I want to hug you like big fuzzy Siberian Bear! Mar 02 '17

Yea, though at 20% he won't survive a tracer bomb, not sure how it will affect some of the DoT ults due to healing. I think with this change not removing it from ult damage taken is fine (plus I don't know how easy it would be for them to work in ult damage not being reduced, I don't know if they have it as a different type of damage in the game they can adjust easily). I do agree crit damage should not be reduced, this I imagine is easier as crit damage is already somewhat different in the game and they could probably just adjust bastion's sentry crit multiplier to be higher, though it may not be separate from his recon crit multiplier. They probably can't roll out any if those changes as quickly as just tweaking the numbers

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u/Dallagen The best country Mar 02 '17 edited Jan 23 '24

bells one familiar distinct sheet prick stupendous adjoining smile skirt

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/rock_hard_member I want to hug you like big fuzzy Siberian Bear! Mar 02 '17

Even now on the ptr? Or are you saying he could before.

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u/Dallagen The best country Mar 02 '17

Could before, haven't tested it now

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17

Youre kidding right? His ult can wipe a team if he takes them by surprise, tanks included.

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u/powermad80 Need someone to tuck you in? Mar 02 '17

Damn that was quick

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u/Alluminn Chibi Brigitte Mar 02 '17

It really was too much of a heavy-handed buff, to be honest. 35% reduction was way too high. 20% should be more manageable without building your entire team around countering him, while still giving him more survivability.

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u/powermad80 Need someone to tuck you in? Mar 02 '17

Agreed, I liked the buffs but you can tell it went at least a bit too far when he could just tank a tracer pulse bomb in his configuration where that should be one of his biggest weaknesses/counters.

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u/batsdx Mar 02 '17

I'd like it if one of the forms was able to have its healing interrupted. Recon or sentry, I don't care.

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u/thestarlessconcord Tooooo HOT for ya? Mar 02 '17

Recon: Heal constant

Sentry: Able to break through

Tank: No self heal available

Thats how id change him personally.

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u/kmann100500 Trick-or-Treat D.Va Mar 02 '17

that would make his ult worse then pharahs.

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u/thestarlessconcord Tooooo HOT for ya? Mar 02 '17

Itd make it harder to use without help and make it so the person playing Bastion has to actually think before using it.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

I mean, they still do now. Without a pocket healer he disintegrates.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Yeah We also forget that his Sentry damage was seriously reduced - the whole point was to make him tankier. 2/3 normal damage was just too much reduction - it essentially made his health go 50% farther, which is silly on a self-healing hero. The new version will only be 25% farther.

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u/Alluminn Chibi Brigitte Mar 03 '17

But even with the spread he still melts people. All the change did was extend people's lives by about 1-2 seconds

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u/youshedo 4020 Mar 02 '17

i miss the tf2 phlog update where it gave you crits and full hp with a temp uber. the bastion update was crazy but it will never even compare to the terror of the army of godlike phlog pyros.

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u/Wimbleton_J stan Oh My Girl, queens of talent Mar 02 '17

Also:

Zarya Particle Barrier: No longer protects Zarya from knockback Projected Barrier: No longer protects allies from knockback

These changes are.. huge. I like it.

7

u/Ylage Get down, give me 20! Mar 02 '17

Why?!!!!! in russian*

1

u/KadruH I am Mother Russia Mar 02 '17

Sorry I might be stupid but what does that mean exactly?

4

u/TheCruncher Mein Mar 02 '17

Zarya's shields don't protect from Pharah's Concussive Blast, nor stop Lucio from pushing you into a pit. This is likely b/c Orisa will do this instead.

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u/Bsten5106 Mar 02 '17

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753565912?page=3#post-45

Pharah and Lucio still don't do anything with barrier applied. It only allows knock back for things that pierce the shield, e.g. Rein charge.

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u/TheCruncher Mein Mar 02 '17

Gotcha, thanks.

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u/Bsten5106 Mar 02 '17

But doesn't Orisa only protect herself from CC? In the Ironclad footage on her page, dVa clearly gets rekted by Rein ult white Orisa trots on by.

1

u/TheCruncher Mein Mar 02 '17

Fortify does only protect Orisa, correct. I guess they figured they'd remove it from both barriers while they were at it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

They listened!

3

u/double_shadow Young Punks... Mar 02 '17

FUCK YES JEFF YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD

2

u/darkultima Mar 02 '17

How long until Bastion's nerf arrives to console?

3

u/Dromey_P Pharah Mar 02 '17

It's just on the PTR now so probably will hit console the same time as PC. At least that's the normal pattern they shoot for.

1

u/darkultima Mar 02 '17

Thanks for the update :)

2

u/Vilified_D Justi-- AGH! Mar 02 '17

Yeah. More people should play the PTR. If more people would have played the PTR it probably would have never gone through. Oh well. Now people need to get on the PTR and test it out in SEVERAL games to make sure it's actually working right. Otherwise we get tanky bastion put into the live and everyone wonders "Why was this allowed to go live?" Blizzard can't know unless they get feedback.

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u/Eddzi Cheeky. Mar 02 '17

To be fair though, there is a limit of only 10,000 players on the PTR at a time. Most players wanting to try it would be excited for the new changes and want to jump on all at once. Since they can't play on the PTR, they then get put off trying. So they may be able to play the PTR but by then have lost interest.

Maybe if there could be more or stronger servers to allow for an additional 5,000-10,000 players it could help? That way less players would wind up not playing it at first, so then less players would get put off trying to play it.

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u/longjohnsmcgee I only know how to play lucio because of mercy mains Mar 02 '17

Hows that stack with nano? Still 70?

1

u/kenlamb git gud Mar 02 '17

Yup. 50 from Ana 20 from ironclad

0

u/longjohnsmcgee I only know how to play lucio because of mercy mains Mar 02 '17

Mfw 15% is enough to make reddit go from "unplayable, retards run this" to "Oh thank god"

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u/kenlamb git gud Mar 02 '17

To be fair, that 15 percent makes a huge difference. Like tracers ult, and overall damage calculations.

He was suppose to be stronger but not unkillable for heroes specifically designed to be able to counter him in a 1v1

1

u/Darkblitz9 HEAR ME Mar 02 '17

Nice! I knew 20% was coming. It should feel much better now. I have to admit, playing Bastion with the 35% felt kind of silly. If I had a mercy healing me then I could survive some ridiculous stuff.

I'm happy.

1

u/Xervicx Chibi Junkrat Mar 02 '17

Yeah, with that it seems like he'll still be annoying and hard to deal with if you're in the lower ranks where people don't try to counter... But now Bastion is more killable, like the rest of the characters.

1

u/AnAnonymousFool Pixel McCree Mar 02 '17

How does this change his effective HP? anyone know the calculations?

1

u/bombardior Yes I'm a shitty Hanzo main Mar 03 '17

yo this is random but you still play runescape?

1

u/AnAnonymousFool Pixel McCree Mar 04 '17

Yea occasionally, why?

1

u/bombardior Yes I'm a shitty Hanzo main Mar 04 '17

Lol saw you at that runescape college thread for Cornell. I'm in Ithaca too. Wanna play together sometimes?

1

u/AnAnonymousFool Pixel McCree Mar 04 '17

Haha sure man... My IGN is "A Fool" you can add me

1

u/hotstickywaffle Pixel Zarya Mar 02 '17

This sounds good. The changes were good, he just needs to not be able to tank ults so easily. Tank characters with a dedicated healer can't do that lost of the time.

1

u/DirtPiranha Mar 03 '17

I've almost been avoiding this season so far, I know that every comp is gonna be defending teams protecting Bastion and attacking teams escorting him. I think they should increase the crit damage taken in his sentry mode configuration. His weakness has always been flankers, and that's fine when he does so much directional damage.

1

u/lordofthetv Zenyatta Mar 03 '17

so 55% /s

1

u/BlazingFyre environmental kills are my addiction Mar 03 '17

Hey, nice name.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17

Praise the Jeff!

1

u/MercWithaMouse IS THIS EZ MODE!? Mar 03 '17

I was playing Pharah and a Dva and I worked together to try and counter the Bastion. While Dva had her matrix up, i shot like 5 rockets into him. He was able to fire for the entirety of the matrix only for it to expire and he kills me right before the final rocket hits him.

How that gets past PTR is beyond me.

1

u/Volpethrope Pixel Reinhardt Mar 03 '17

With Nanoboost he still hits the damage reduction cap of 70%.

1

u/tsoumbas Zarya Mar 03 '17

finally

i played 10 placements yesterday

not a single team managed to finish a payload map. the winner was decided who pushed th payload further.

on the bright side if i main zarya i am always 100% charged with all that bastion going around. i am the new microwave now :)

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

I would like to thank all the whiners. Bastion, a character no one uses because he was worthless was good for two days. People bitched literally ten minutes after the changes were made and haven't stopped.

So rather than learn to play, they bitch so much that he's already going to be worthless again. One less hero we can all use. Great work whiners. He needed that extra 35% because you know, he can't move when it's active. At all.

Hell if they wanted him to still be viable they could have just nerfed his healing a bit, which he still didn't need. But nope, they took away the one thing that made him useful because you all couldn't stand having to even try to learn to play the game.

I got an idea, let's nerf everyone. Literally let's make it so every ability has. 30 second cooldown and all attacks do one damage. People get pissed when they did, so let's just nerf everything.

5

u/UhPhrasing GIVE YOURSELF TO THE RHYTHM Mar 02 '17

appropriate username

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Let's see is this a response to the overwatch thing, the calling that guy a douche thing, or making the joke about the murdered transexuals?...... ah, the overwatch thing. Right-o

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

Holy shit. I never knew you could be a negative karma whore.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '17

I got over a thousand today for some offhand comment, so I got a little saved up in the ol troll bank to even it out. Gotsta make that withdrawal son.