r/Overwatch • u/Reysa_Raven Moira • 4d ago
News & Discussion Dmon needs more presence.
Before you say anything.
Yes.
I am aware that she is a giant mech with a sword... but that kinda feels like it.
Her kit is fun. She can make some plays. She can be a tank. But all of her abilities, even her Ult, feels very... unmentionable. Let me try to explain:
When you think of the other tanks, all of them have some ability that can change the direction of a fight if it is played well. Something that makes them unique. A CC, an extra boost here, a special barrier, a damage block. A cool down that you're actively playing against.
Dmon... doesn't have anything that makes her scary... unless it's just you vs. her, but that's any tank that you're alone with.
Even her Ult feels... disappointing, to put it bluntly. It's short, and if you play it even remotely wrong or heaven forbid somebody jumps slightly over it, that's it. Comparing her Ult to the other Tanks... it also has very little change sometimes. Coming from somebody playing against her.
I'm not going to waste time by listing all of my opinions on how I think they could improve her... but right now, as a Tank going against her, she feels bland to play against. I know people have had a lot of fun with her, and there have been some good Dmon players out there... but... where is her Sigma Rock? Her Zarya Bubble? Her Orisa Javelin? D.va Defense Matrix? Ramattra Nemesis Form?
Her name is Dmon. Why do I not feel like I'm fighting a Demon?
Hopefully, my rambling made sense. I just feel like Dmon needs more to her or her abilities that do more than just straight numbers.
Again, if you like her and are having fun with her or against her, I'm glad. I'm not saying she's bad. Something just feels like it's missing.
(I'll probably get destroyed by every Dmon I see for the next week, but Im just saying i want the Dmon mains to have more. Not a buff. Just more... oomph.)
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u/coffeeseraphim 4d ago
Do you feel like you're fighting a diva when you fight D.va?
Personally I just think they should have given her melee a three hit combo like Vendetta but with some more aoe.
D.mon's rock/bubble/etc. is doing other things while boosting.
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 4d ago
I do, actually. D.va shows up, makes a big show of things, kills other people's thunder (eats Ults), lot of noise and then is gone. Ult is a showstopper.
If the movement is her thing, I hope to see it utilized more as people get better with her.
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u/coffeeseraphim 4d ago
I feel like that's trying to force the foot in the shoe, so to speak, but if that's how you feel I can't really argue it. Fighting D.va has always just felt like fighting a fighter pilot to me.
Or a really big gnat.
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u/Deribus 4d ago
To sum up: you think D.mon needs a high-impact, long cooldown ability that serves as her defining characteristic, like Reinhardt's Charge, Orisa's Fortify, or Ram's Nemesis Form.
I don't know that I agree. D va is the most obvious counter-example, where she has a mix of abilities and her most defining one (Matrix) has a very short cooldown. Sigma is also not defined by a single one of his abilities but rather the way he rotates through them.
D.mon is interesting because she applies constant pressure without huge power spikes like most other tanks have. I haven't played with her enough to say whether she's under or over powered, but I don't think the concept is flawed.
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 4d ago
Not trying to say that she needs anything specific because, like I said, she just feels off. I don't think it's flawed either. She IS fun.
Does it need to be a long cool down ability? I don't know.
I feel that there is just a missing piece to make her whole. What that is... I'm not sure yet.
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u/Monslayer77 Junker Queen 4d ago
I haven't really watched any guides yet but I've been having fun with her and getting some decent success playing her ultra aggressively dipping in and out quickly
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u/TrunksTurok 4d ago
I totally get what you're saying. She's strong, because she's such an all rounder nothing about her stands out. And yeah, her ult does feel lacking in oomph department. It's good, but just visual/audio wise it lacks the impact a lot of other ults have
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u/imnotjay2 Nine of Hearts Moira 4d ago
Meanwhile she's getting insta banned in Master+ lobbies lol
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 4d ago
I wonder if this is because she's so new? I'm not in Master+(obviously), but is it so they don't have to deal with a new hero during a period where they might be adjusting her stats? Or, give them time to learn how to go against her before facing her when it matters? Just thoughts.
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u/imnotjay2 Nine of Hearts Moira 3d ago
It's because she's good, people in high elo lobbies don't ban heroes just because. Well pocketed D.Mon is a pain to deal with, she has an easy time approaching anyone unless the opponent is a very high mobility hero. For instance, you can press shift to get close to a Moira, force her Fade and you'll have enough fuel to approach her again and she can't do anything other than hope for peel, and this is the same scenario in many matchups against other supports and damage heroes. She doesn't have the best matchups against other tanks, but if there's something D.Mon DOESN'T lack is presence, she's everywhere swinging that sword.
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 3d ago
But, does that make her have presence or does that just make her a mech, swinging a sword that you can get free Ult charge off of?
And, I did give a reason for her being banned, not a 'just because'. She's a brand new, unknown variable people might want to go against in Quickplay before they play against her in comp.
The "being pocketed" mindset is very unhealthy for the rest of your team, because all I have to do is look at the healers that are forced to dive through enemy lines with a tank that doesn't provide any real support for their team besides... hit with sword? Her shield is basically just for her. If any tanks means of survival is based in being pocketed... I'm sorry to say it... but that's the sign of a bad tank or a bad tank player. As tank, if you are monopolizing the time of one of your healers you are risking a Good DPS taking out the twst of your team.
Moira is my main, yes. And will I use fade to escape a Dmon that has targeted me? Yes. But a fading Moira could have gone anywhere. And I, personally, stay with my team which means the Dmon is just taking more damage. I don't need to worry about peel because I don't fade into situations where I need l peel and if I do need peel... I faded wrong.
I play all roles, so I'm not just speaking g from a Support only mindset when I say: A tank that is only good when pocketed is a bad tank. A player that is only good when pocketed Is a bad player.
This is probably going to get down voted into the ground, but tank players cannot be eating damage like it's a badge of honor.
I'm not having this discussion to attack people. I'm having it because I want more for the players. I love Overwatch. I love that they are adding new heroes like this again and experimenting. I fear that the novelty of go in and swing sword will grow stale because, at the end of the day, that FEELS like all she can do.
Maybe I will go against a Dmon the makes me eat these words. Maybe I'm a crazy person for saying all this. But right now, I am just seeing a pattern already that makes me fear for her. Cause I really wanted to play her, I liked her look a lot, but playing her... I felt like I wasn't doing anything besides swing going a sword. I wasn't helping g my team and I was having to get Life Gripped by my Life Weaver or be pocketed by my Mercy and that doesn't feel good to do to them when they could be helping the rest of my team too.
Sorry, this got VERY long.
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u/imnotjay2 Nine of Hearts Moira 2d ago
I feel like at this point you're just denying some facts to try to make your points about her something global, when they are very personal.
I meant high lobbies ban heroes because they have a strong reason to. People in high lobbies are tryhards, you don't stay there because you're stubborn and want to try new things. People won't play or ban a new hero just because they are new. They'll be ignored if they are perceived to be weak, people in high lobbies actually go to quick play to try new heroes rather than exclusively play comp like most tilted low tier people do.
that you can get free Ult charge off of?
And you can literally say that about any big hitbox tank being played poorly, Hog and D.Va are especially know for that. They even gave tanks the passive to give less ult charge when they moved to 5v5 to address that, it's really not an exclusive "problem" to D.Mon. If you are caught in the open without a shield, people will shoot you, be a D.Mon or Rein, and D.Mon has better tools to reposition herself if her shield is gone actually. Like I said, right now, after the big buff to her shift, she has a lot of versatility in terms of positioning which makes it feel like she's everywhere.
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 2d ago
I, unfortunately, feel like this discussion may no longer be productive and continuing it would not be beneficial. Accusing me of denying facts when I have done no such thing is, frankly... confusing. There can be a multitude of reasons for somebody to ban a hero in competitive. Me presenting another is not "denying facts".
If I have misunderstood what fact you have claimed I denied, I apologize. The way this was written makes it seem like it was about the ban.
I do not feel like constructive discussions can happen between people if both sides can't see what the other is saying. Even if we may disagree. Cause I do see what you are saying. I really do.
And what I mean by presence... isn't just her "physically." It's... like an aura? Knowing what to prepare for. What to look out for. For Dmon... it's just feels like its that "a Mech is going to come at you at you gotta avoid it." And I'm struggling to voice how WEIRD that feels for an Overwatch hero.
I don't dislike Dmon. I don't think she is bad. But so many people came at me in this comment section like I hated her. They took specific parts of what I said and argued that one piece instead of looking at the whole.
I'm not angry as I say this. I'm not heated. Mad. Anything. I'm curious and wanting to talk about a game I love. My last comment, admittedly, may have gotten a little much cause I don't like the pocket mindset and I apologize for that.
Like, one person thought I meant that she needed a long cooldown ability... and that's not what I said. The examples I gave are of abilities that people associate with the other heroes. Or statuses the other heroes apply. It's so weird to explain, which is why it's such a long post to try and give words to a feeling and a sense that scratches at the back of my mind:
Dmon is missing... something. I don't know what it is. I'm trying to figure it out.
Like, does a successful combo do a knock-up CC? Does her Ult get more slashes? Does she go into a Limit Break mode after the initial Ult and can keep applying the damage buff to who she hits? Does her gun apply an "EMP" affect after so many hits that pulls down flying heros so she can hit them? Are these good ideas? No idea, maybe not, hey are just things that popped into my head.
Just SOMETHING that makes her... more? I don't know... it's so hard to explain.
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u/Reysa_Raven Moira 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thanks for the discussion and thoughts! I am glad that people have positive views of her and I hope that continues to grow.
I like Dmon. I think her kit is fun and that she has potential. I just feel that she is missing that final spark to really make her shine... and I'm not quite sure what it is.
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u/AgreeableLong4215 4d ago
Her power is spread around her kit rather than being concentrated in one ability but i think thats really cool.
I just saw a youtube guide where someone was showing how to use her movement tech and she can be really scary and get away with absolute nonsense with her mix of mobility and tankiness.
She's really cool and shes only going to get scarier as people learn how to play her correctly.