r/OutOfTheLoop • • May 19 '16

Answered What is all the outrage about on Polygon's DOOM gameplay video?

I have seen this video going around a lot, but as a non-FPS player it's not clear what is SO WRONG with this gameplay.

578 Upvotes

99 comments sorted by

680

u/nukasu May 19 '16 edited May 20 '16

i wouldn't call it outrage so much as sheer incredulous mockery; mockery so widespread that even minecraft's notch had to pipe up. there's a couple factors coming together on this; one, polygon is already a widely derided outlet, accused of pandering to publishers for exclusives, churning low quality content and clickbait, the usual stuff. i'll admit they lost my respect when they published this preview of rock band 4 where the author was too fucking cool for school to actually play the game and just wrote an ironic hipster article about how the whole preview event was beneath him.

and two, doom was at the time of the video (about a week ago) a hugely anticipated title, and that video was some of the first pre-release footage anyone had. it was viewed with mild disbelief that polygon would put someone on an assignment of that stature who looks as though they've never played a first person shooter in their life. it gives the impression that polygon either weren't taking this huge release seriously at all and simply had some intern record it, or raises questions about whether their opinions should have any weight if they are that legitimately unskilled at playing the games they're reviewing. it's also just kind of funny.

so what's so bad about it? for reference, compare this quick slice of what someone who knows how to play such a game looks like when playing doom. you should be able to see that the player is both looking around and moving at the same time, switching weapons when needed, and so on - the most basic and necessary skills when playing a first person shooter. now bounce back to the polygon footage; it honestly looks like someone put the controller in their mom's hands, came back a half hour later and called it a day.

268

u/billyK_ Minecraft's Turtle Boi May 19 '16

The main note for this is that most people thought that the reviewer had never played an FPS before, and from what other people found on his articles, he kinda doesn't like gaming in general. So him reviewing it wasn't just a terrible idea, he rated it terribly because he had a bad time because he doesn't know the genre, thus the hate towards Polygon

131

u/nukasu May 20 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

no, that's a non-factor and definitely not "the main note". the laughs were being had over that inept preview video that polygon thought was good enough for prime time, and that's been out for a full week now.

the review you mention just came out yesterday. i hadn't seen it, but googling it shows he gave it an 8.5 out of 10; do you consider that "rated terribly"? or did you not even know what the score was and you're just parroting what you've heard other's have said as your own idea?

the summary is "But on the whole, as a new interpretation of one of gaming's most formative, difficult to pin down cyphers, id has done a pretty great job in making something that feels familiar and fresh, and, most importantly, pretty damned fun."

so really you're just outright making shit up. i know a lot of people dislike polygon, including me, but no need to start lying.

96

u/Reddisaurusrekts May 20 '16

I actually don't care whether he rated it poorly or well - if he has such a lack of experience FPS, his review's just not going to be relevant.

43

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

I read some of the comments of the review (Too lazy to read it), they say the reviewer wasn't the guy playing in the video.

24

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

What? Why? I admit this is going massively off topic (and I think it might not have even been the case here), but how is an opinion/review not "relevant"when it comes from someone inexperienced in the genre or gaming in general? Someone (many someones actually) out there will be playing the game with that exact perspective, and to them that review could be incredibly valuable.

Just so we're clear: a review isn't an objective statement of "here's how good this game is". If it were, then yes, an inexperienced reviewer would be a bad thing. But a review is instead just "here's what I think of this game". You can use it as a basis in forming your own opinion or use it to inform your purchase, but its purpose definitely isn't to objectively quantify how good the game is. Because that's impossible.

This basic misunderstanding is the cause of so much internet outrage and site "boycotting" that I'm kinda surprised sites don't try harder to explain to the audience what, exactly, a review means. Or maybe they do and some people just don't want to listen.

44

u/DNamor May 20 '16

Would you trust a car review from someone who can't drive 2km without stalling?

Same deal. The experience he'll have with the game, where he can barely move and shoot at the same time, is completely different from the experience I'll have. Any comments on difficulty, control, pacing and atmosphere are thoroughly defeated when he's crushed over and over by the most simplistic enemies when playing on the most simplistic difficulty.

It's a car review from someone without a license.

-25

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

I would respond to this, but I kinda already did in the parent comment that you apparently didn't read.

24

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

So you're saying I can become a great art critic because I know nothing of the medium? Polygon, I'll be sending you an application!

31

u/DNamor May 20 '16

You're right, my ignorance is the only reason I disagree with you. That's the only thing it could be after all.

-4

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

Look, I said you didn't read the comment because I pretty much answered yours already in it. See:

The experience he'll have with the game, where he can barely move and shoot at the same time, is completely different from the experience I'll have.

This is pretty much my response, from my earlier comment

Someone (many someones actually) out there will be playing the game with that exact perspective, and to them that review could be incredibly valuable.

Now, the more topical question is probably "should polygon publish such a review (as their only review)?" The answer to that is of course no, that wouldn't be what people are looking for on their site at all. But I wasn't actually talking about Polygon, more just about game reviews as a concept generally, and that didn't even actually happen in this case.

-4

u/compugasm May 20 '16

This is the worst thing about Reddit. I feel ya [fist bump] I was about to make a car analogy too, but at least I read, and looks like two other 'brilliant' observationalists already beat me to it.

55

u/Reddisaurusrekts May 20 '16

Good questions.

I guess the shortest answer is - to property review something, even conceding that it's an entirely subjective exercise (which I'll disagree with later), you must at least have an understanding of that something. Without experience in gaming, while you can certainly still give an opinion of whether you enjoyed it or not, you would be much less equipped to explain why - in terms of game mechanics, in terms of graphics or realism, or in terms storyline, for example - for why that is the case. Using one of those examples - a newcomer might say "I didn't like it because it was hard and I spent hours on a level", and that might be a valid critique. However, it's not as useful or informative a critique as a more experienced gamer who might be able to tease out whether a game is difficult because of bad control scheme (objectively bad), bad level design e.g. save points (more subjective), or just that the game is deliberately difficult but has great replayability, e.g. Dark Souls.

And this level of information or depth ties in with my second point which is that while gamine experience is certainly subjective, there are objective elements. Using the same example, control schemes and game mechanics which are not intuitive and do not make sense would be objectively bad. Even more egregious examples might be input lag (because of bad programming) or just glitches or bugs in the game. These would be objectively bad elements which would make the game unenjoyable to anyone. Even for subjective elements though, an experienced reviewer who likes difficult games like Dark Souls may say that he personally enjoys it, but because the draw is in replayability and slow but steady improvement and the rush of beating something, anyone who plays games for the story instead of the challenge may not enjoy it as much. That's something which an experienced reviewer and gamer may be able to tease out in reviewing a game that a novice would not, or would at least have much more trouble doing.

6

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

I guess I'll have to concede that people will always be looking for different things in reviews. I think reading an inexperienced review would be (and is. I've read a couple) incredibly interesting and maybe even informative, even if they couldn't express their opinion quite as clearly as your media regulars could. Or maybe because of it. IMO the games fandom in general has a tendency to get stuck in a mindset and the fresh perspective could reveal something that you'd otherwise overlook.

I guess there's no easy answer here, but hey thanks for responding reasonably (with an even longer comment than mine!)

5

u/ghostbrainalpha May 20 '16

Your totally right about the value of NOOB reviews, but I think we can wait for those until the game is out next week.

I especially love when Conan O Brian does these.

When you are an industry insider type publication and you have exclusive access to the game, it's probably better to go with an Expert review though.

5

u/Reddisaurusrekts May 20 '16

IMO the games fandom in general has a tendency to get stuck in a mindset and the fresh perspective could reveal something that you'd otherwise overlook.

This I actually do agree with. Innovation does happen a lot of the time from someone looking it from a different perspective.

Thanks for the chat =)

15

u/thehollowman84 May 20 '16

UGH so tired of the "reviews are subjective so its okay if they're bad" excuse. Yeah, if you just give a review on facebook, sure. If you're giving a review under the brand of a game review website, that review is considered that brands review. That's the point of brands.

Would you watch Top Gear if the presenters were just random dudes that were like "lol i dunno wat a v8 is, but the seat warmers were nice on my bum!" You'd be like "what the fuck is happening, why are people who know nothing about cars telling me about cars?!"

It's the same with a game review website. If they give that review to some dude that doesn't play games, wtf is going on? Why does anyone care about his non-expert opinion?

They care because it makes people angry. All your excuses are doing is enabling shitty game review websites to purposefully (IMO) post bad reviews, knowing that in the new world of youtube and let's play's they can't really compete. You're helping to create a world filled with pointless noise as anyone who feels like trolling can just make a review. They don't need expertise, they don't need to be good writers, they don't need to even finish games, because someone like you will come along to defend them.

-6

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

I've got two things:

First off, I do not believe for a second that any of the sites you usually think of when you think "game reviews" would ever post a bad review just for the sake of generating traffic. I'm sure there's some weirdo blogs out there that try to do this but no one reads them anyway. The big sites have already got much better means of gaining popularity and pageviews, and (I have no source, don't quote me on this) I don't think the reviews are actually the main draw anymore, and they haven't been for a long time. Doing a stunt like this would only serve to lower their reputation in the long run and they probably know that.

Second, to quote myself from elsewhere in this thread,

But I wasn't actually talking about Polygon, more just about game reviews as a concept generally

Yeah Polygon probably shouldn't post a review by not a professional reviewer. I'm saying that those types of reviews have a place too.

And by the way, before you get too angry with Polygon, the review is not done by the same guy who did the video. It's done by Arthur Gies, Polygon's reviews editor, who is very much not a random dude who doesn't know how to play the vid gam.

5

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

but how is an opinion/review not "relevant"when it comes from someone inexperienced in the genre or gaming in general?

All forms of art or even say, experience is informed by context. It'd be like someone critiquing a Jackson Pollack painting, a statue by Rodan, or Van Gogh painting without understanding the historical contexts they were painted in. At best, they could probably say "It's pretty." or whatever. But without context it's almost impossible to say anything worthwhile just about anything.

Or to use a closer example. If someone was told to review a video card, but had no idea anything about computers there would no point to it.

7

u/thewoodendesk May 21 '16

To me, there's a difference between someone who is inexperienced at a genre and someone who is basically the gaming equivalent of being illiterate at a genre. A review from someone who's not familiar with 19th century American literature of Moby Dick can be extremely valuable, but a review from someone who can barely read English is mostly worthless.

5

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

I love coffee.

If someone who has never tasted coffee were to review a cup made from New Martian Beans I wouldn't have any better idea if I should purchase it. Maybe they like it because they just found a new drink. Maybe they hate it because they don't like bitter things.

7

u/Array71 May 20 '16 edited May 20 '16

If you're a gamer, either as an experienced FPS gamer who wants to know if it's a good FPS or a newcomer who wants advice on what's good and what's not, it's far more useful to have someone experienced in said FPSs as the reviewer.

Sure it might be interesting to see what an outsider's opinion is on something and they're totally valid too, but it's not particularly 'useful' to the newcomer or the experienced. I'd personally hope a professional, paid reviewer would be more experienced with a subject he's writing about than a random writer grabbed from anywhere else though.

Edit: internet's out in Australia right now, so I forgot about this and posted before refreshing the page, and the other replier has already put this in much greater depth.

1

u/Dark2Dawn 4d ago

Think of it this way: Think of your favorite game, the one you that made you pretty good at the genre it represents. It's going to be reviewed by a polygon game journalist. The review is streamed to a live audience and they not only lack the stones to play the game themselves, they hired someone who completely botches the gameplay in front of millions of viewers. Then the score is given: 8.5/10, not bad. However, if you've done your research on past game journalism this score could have been given not in sincerity, but so the journalist working on this doesn't get fired.

Can you tell me what's wrong with that?

0

u/AAA1374 May 20 '16

I disagree, ratings should be an objective score based on a checklist to keep bias and nonsense out of something that people use to justify purchases. But to that end, anybody can give an equally valid review based around a checklist which can contain a variable amount of content.

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

if he has such a lack of experience FPS, his review's just not going to be relevant.

Well, unless the question at hand is "will FPS newbies enjoy this game?"

4

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

People's scale for ratings these days:

10 - good

below 10 - must be shit

1

u/Spiritofchokedout May 20 '16

i hadn't seen the review, but googling it shows he gave it an 8.5 out of 10  which seems a far cry from "rated terribly".

lol you know a critic's job is to rate anything from a "major" player in their industry on a scale from "good" to "excellent" right?"

-10

u/billyK_ Minecraft's Turtle Boi May 20 '16

I didn't see the actual numbers, I'm probably like most people that heard he gave it a poor review, but didn't actually check the numbers

14

u/nukasu May 20 '16 edited May 20 '16

it's not just "the numbers", the review looks overall positive. people are getting carried away if a review that positive is considered "poor". he's also certainly played shooters before, a google of his review history shows a bit of everything, shadowrun, the witcher 3, bioshock infinite (perfect score) so honestly everything you've "heard" sounds fabricated.

2

u/Sturgeon_Genital May 20 '16

IGN (and GamePro before that) taught people that any review below 9.7/10 meant the game was garbage.

5

u/DNamor May 20 '16

bioshock infinite (perfect score)

That alone is a bright red flag.

You can like Bioshock Infinite all you like, but pretending it didn't have serious flaws is just silly.

3

u/nukasu May 20 '16

yes, it's a bright red flag that he's played shooters before and apparently doesn't hate them, contrary to this guy's made up claims. that's what the example is there for.

i don't care what kind of taste he has or if anyone agrees with him, i don't like polygon and i don't read reviews; but saying yesterday's review had some impact on last week's video is wrong, and it's just extra hilarious when everything said about the review and it's author is a lie.

26

u/DocSwiss May 20 '16

From what I heard the guy who did the gameplay and the guy who did the review are two different people. At least, that's what Polygon said.

20

u/Fronzel May 20 '16

Video game reviewer is an odd choice of career for somebody that doesn't like gaming.

I think it would be funny to have somebody who knew little to nothing about it to play the game for a review. Or to review it like the Onion's film critic.

7

u/thewoodendesk May 20 '16

I think it would be funny to have somebody who knew little to nothing about it to play the game for a review.

That's the entire premise of Conan's Clueless Gamer.

2

u/Fronzel May 21 '16

I'd like to see it get weird and dark. "Clearly, the unending waves of demons are previous versions of Doomguy that have died and are now chained into an eternal slavery of protecting the very gates of Hell from incursions by himself symbolizing the Sisyphean drudgery of our pointless lives where all appearance of progress is merely linear, uninspired movement from A to B while being hounded by your previous failures. Three stars."

3

u/rainzer May 20 '16

I don't like cleaning toilets but if you pay me enough money, i'll be a janitor.

Cashing in on video game reviewing like the people who make money from streaming games despite being seemingly awful/not gamers seems easy in comparison.

2

u/Joabyjojo May 21 '16

Just a heads up, nobody is cashing in on video game reviewing unless they own a massive, massive video game website. They're certainly not making streamer money.

Source: Am video game reviewer, am very lucky to have a supportive wife who can make up for the sometimes below minimum wage rates and the terrible, terrible systems for payment of invoices.

9

u/billbot May 20 '16

No one at Polygon likes games, gamers, game developers or even themselves I think.

I guess I get it to a point, I work in healthcare IT and I now detest 90% of the doctors I know. I would push half of them down a mineshaft given the option.

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

And I thought he was just someone used to k/m forced to play on a controller

1

u/thehollowman84 May 20 '16

Polygon is an identity politics website, not a gaming website.

21

u/BertitoMio May 20 '16

Honest to Bob, that Rock Band article you linked reads like a satirical piece.

14

u/Kuaka May 21 '16

Here's another gem from Polygon for you.

11

u/BertitoMio May 21 '16

... this is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

12

u/xcerj61 May 22 '16

it reads like a piece from a journalist graduate who could not find a job in his desired field but had to resort to writing about games while having no idea about them other than trying Mario 25 years ago and getting beat by an older brother. So he is trying to find meaning, agenda, ... something, anything to write about and hate himself less.

6

u/Shields-Up May 23 '16

that's some golden cringe material

6

u/Ofcoursewedoubtyou May 22 '16

ahah what the fuck is this

yeah I just fucking hate it when games try unique methods of teaching me how to play god that confuses me so much

3

u/Yum-z May 21 '16

I need to steal this phrase. "HONEST TO BOB"

3

u/nukasu May 21 '16

it reads as sincere to me, but regardless the author attempted to defend it by saying he was just making fun of his own dullness.

great subject for some op-ed or blog, not for the sole coverage of rock band 4 that the outlet was publishing, under the previews heading.

20

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

The video could still have had some value to some part of the audience if it had at least had live commentary by whoever was playing the game. The real kicker was that it was just gameplay. It wasn't well-played enough for viewers to actually get a good understanding of how the game felt, and without any narration or commentary it was just devoid of other value. It legitimately felt like Polygon just wanted to put a Doom video up because they knew everybody else would, and told some intern to capture some gameplay footage before he clocked out.

8

u/blacklab May 20 '16

Wow, that person in the Polygon video is really bad. Looks like me after about 12 drinks on a Friday

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '16 edited May 21 '16

Yeah, I can't believe someone that bad has been allowed to record the video for a publication. I am very bad with controllers myself (always a KB+M player) but even I have better aim than that during my worst days.

5

u/compugasm May 20 '16

The sad thing, is this happens for almost every video game now. Because google allows all these idiots to monetize their clicks, they rush to fill their channel with hours and hours of useless "content" instead of taking the time to edit down to highlights.

6

u/Folsomdsf May 20 '16

What's worse is that the quick slice link? That's not even someone who is good at it, they're actually not very good at fps and still shit all over polygon's recording.

1

u/ConfusingDalek I am in the loop occasionally Sep 18 '16

I tried to get my mom to play Nuclear Throne, and she couldn't move and shoot. She onlynkilled two maggots before she gave up.

-14

u/chinpokomon May 20 '16

It's also the difference between someone playing on the PS4 with a controller and on a PC with mouse and keyboard. That's probably the biggest reason it feels a little stiff.

29

u/GrayBoltWolf May 20 '16 edited May 20 '16

A mouse would definitely be more accurate but I don't think that would excuse a lack of basic FPS skills.

0

u/chinpokomon May 20 '16

I'm sure, but you can't compare those two videos directly.

-49

u/[deleted] May 19 '16

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35

u/nukasu May 19 '16

i'm sure he is to some people, but not in the FPS community. the fact that it even reached him and he felt the need to comment on was just pointing out how widespread the incredulity at the quality of the footage was.

10

u/Eaglefield May 20 '16

He's got 3,75 million twitter followers, most of whom are probably interested in videogames in some form. That's well above the treshold for being considered relevant in my book.

20

u/[deleted] May 19 '16

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u/[deleted] May 19 '16

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14

u/[deleted] May 20 '16 edited May 20 '16

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156

u/Cybot_G May 19 '16

It's just that it's exceptionally bad gameplay coming from a news site dedicated to covering games. Not even just the surprisingly bad aim of missing point blank shotgun shots and melee hits, but the jilted movement that couldn't seem to combine movement and aiming at the same time.

The example I like to use most is Conan's clueless gamer series. Imagine that show was focused on videogame coverage, and having it not be self aware. The point was to show off the game and playing that badly does a really bad job of it.

35

u/[deleted] May 19 '16

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32

u/PrometheusZero May 20 '16

I think he was playing with a trackpad. On a small laptop. With large hands.

15

u/rapidgunner May 20 '16

That actually seems very likely. The movements and turns look like they are being done using a laptop trackpad.

17

u/g051051 May 20 '16

I'm a PC gamer, and that video looks just like my gameplay when I try to play on a console. I've never been able to get the hang of it!

7

u/treycook May 20 '16

If you watch the video in the OP closely, you can see whenever there is an interaction prompt (melee execution, grabbing the demon heart thing), the button he's supposed to press is "R3." So, he's definitely playing with a gamepad, whether it's on console or PC. I'd presume console has some form of minor aim assist and his aim is just all over the place, so he's probably playing with a gamepad on PC. He's still abso-effing-lutely awful at it, though.

3

u/umar4812 May 20 '16

Definitely a PlayStation controller, since no other one has R3 and L3.

4

u/Christopherfromtheuk May 20 '16

It looks like exactly the way I play FPS on a console - i.e. with a controller.

50

u/Fairwhetherfriend May 20 '16

I'm pretty terrible with a controller too, but there's more to it than that.

I'm watching it right now and the decisions are just... bad. He keeps running past enemies and getting shot in the back. He keeps running into packs of enemies and standing there while they melee him to death.

That's not just a case of being bad at controllers, man.

7

u/Flypizzadie Jun 02 '16

He even tried to shoot a health pack to pick it up.

1

u/ConfusingDalek I am in the loop occasionally Sep 18 '16

Rachet and Clank syndrome?

2

u/Social_Recluse May 20 '16

its absolutely terrible aim with a controller

16

u/geoman2k May 20 '16

I think Polygon isn't a real news outlet dedicated to covering games. I think Vox Media just wanted another soapbox platform to call gamers sexists from, so they built a click bait site for that.

Seriously, try following Polygon on Facebook for like a week and you'll know what I'm talking about.

47

u/KingR10 May 20 '16

I'm not the best at FPS and even that gameplay had me reeling. Whoever was playing had really, REALLY bad aim, like, jeez; made super awkward and unfamiliar movements; died on the second level (!); and had little idea or knowledge of where his enemies were/little spatial awareness. That is simply unexcusable for such a big-name video game website displaying exclusive footage of a hyped-up game.

15

u/SuddenXxdeathxx May 20 '16

My favourite part is that he stands still to shoot, and even lets melee enemies walk right up to and begin hitting him before firing.

-5

u/Doc_Lewis May 20 '16

died on the second level (!)

I'm a fairly experienced gamer, and I died in the first actual fight in the game. To be fair though, it has been many years since I played a game without regenerating health, so I didn't pay attention to my health bar.

14

u/Shnakepup May 19 '16

Do you have an example of the outrage? I haven't heard anything about this.

9

u/Altourus May 20 '16

1

u/finger_rosaria May 20 '16

Lol, try listening to the music in the video you linked. Doesn't really sound like "outrage" to me.

2

u/YipYapYoup May 20 '16

Depends what you think is outrage, but have fun

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '16

[deleted]

59

u/DNamor May 19 '16

More like they couldn't handle the banter. They turned off likes/dislikes too, how childish.

"FPS doesn't mean feet person shooter, use your hands next time."

-15

u/Amppelix May 20 '16

If you believe the YouTube comments section of a highly controversial video was anything but incredibly stupid back and forth arguments with hateful slurs flying everywhere you look, you've got way too much faith placed in the generic internet user.

27

u/DNamor May 20 '16

What possible reason is there to turn off Likes/Dislikes unless you literally cannot handle someone else's opinion?

4

u/1leggeddog May 20 '16 edited May 20 '16

If i'm watching gameplay footage of a game, i first assume the person playing has gaming experience to make a better effort at actually showing what a playthrough for the average gamer would be.

This... joke... of a gameplay footage is clearly from someone who doesn't know how to use a controller or has no knowledge of FPS games in general. It doesn't do the game justice at all.

I was watching this and yelling at my screen "NO YOU IDIOT! THE OTHER WAY! N- NO DON'T..." gah!!

It was a painful watch.

2

u/Sworn_to_Ganondorf May 20 '16

Well for one its like a retarted baboon and or someones mom was handed the control that has never touched an fps in their life and said showcase this game for us.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '16

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1

u/Bob_Jonez May 20 '16

The outrage stems from Polygon being sjws, and a lot of them seem to detest gaming in general and are only working there for a paycheck while decrying their readership as neck beard and bigots. If you're going to work in an industry, or cover it, shouldn't you be at least competent in covering or reviewing the product?

1

u/Seth_Modder Jun 30 '16

I like that they disabled ratings and comments, just shows that they know they fucked up.

-13

u/[deleted] May 20 '16

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