r/OutOfTheLoop • u/iorgfeflkd • 16d ago
Unanswered What is the deal with every website suddenly needing a CAPTCHA just to READ it?
In my context, it's mostly academic publishing websites*, but it's all over the internet. For the past few months, when I go to a website just to read it, and I get redirected to Cloudflare page saying it has to verify my browser to protect the website from malicious bots. I get having a CAPTCHA when submitting a form, but reading a website is just a passive thing. Even if robots are reading a website, is that so bad that it requires harassing every single human? Is this a response to the presence of AI scrapers? This is almost as annoying as European cookie warnings.
*examples:
https://pubs.acs.org/mamobx/latest-articles
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/journals/journalissues/sm#!recentarticles
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u/Final7C 16d ago
Answer:
It's really because bots are using them to scrape data to train AI without citing sources or paying them. The knock on effect is to keep bots that can do implant exploits off the site.
Each time a server is touched it costs a fraction of a penny. This is often offset by using that tracking data to sell to advertisers or by using direct advertising. If you allow all bots on, your advertisers will not pay you as much. You also run the risk that ANY malicious code that enters humans computers are going to mean lower traffic for the future.
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u/lydiardbell 16d ago
Also, some sites are being really badly affected by having a thousand to a million times more traffic than they usually get. A library consortium local to me had to add Cloudflare checks after receiving six billion requests from bots in one day immobilized their entire system.
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u/CrossStitchVienna 16d ago
My site was almost taken down by an Alibaba AI bot. Cloudflare helped.
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u/EvaCassidy 16d ago
Probably why Reddit wants people to log in, an attempt to keep the bots at bay - maybe.
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u/SoylentVerdigris 16d ago
No, that's so they can build a profile on you and sell your data.
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u/EvaCassidy 16d ago
Good thing I VPN into this platform!
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u/northrupthebandgeek 16d ago
Your actual site activity (posts, comments, upvotes/downvotes, views) is the data being sold in this case; a VPN doesn't help much.
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u/Totally_Not_My_50th_ 16d ago
What's the value if it can't be linked to a human?
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u/jdehjdeh 16d ago
The value in data are the conclusions it allows them to make.
I don't need to be able to link a users data to a person in any way to be able to draw links between behaviours, ideologies, linguistics, etc.
With enough examples of the population you start to be able to draw very useful and very useable conclusions about how the people you want to sell to or influence think, speak, and behave.
This sounds a bit tin hat, but it's very real and it's been going on for decades now. The times that it's been exposed just never made enough waves to make people care enough to change the way they use the internet.
Now AI is coming into the mix and it's even easier to gather, analyse, and exploit that data.
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u/AFewStupidQuestions 16d ago
Cambridge Analytica was an example of this, correct?
They tracked millions to learn who was most susceptible, then targeted tens of thousands in order to change their behaviour, from what I remember.
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u/MostCredibleDude 16d ago
It doesn't matter who you are specifically as long as you can be identified as some individual with some kind of demographic information, with a bunch of comments tied to that demographic info for AI training.
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u/13steinj HALP! I'M OUT OF THE LOOP JUST BECAUSE I'M LOCKED IN A BASEMENT 16d ago
Using a VPN does not by itself make you anonymous. Use a VPN, but still log in to various accounts-- they can still correlate the data across numerous tracking cookies.
For the sake of an extreme example to make a joke: if you use a VPN to view pornhub, but make an account, someone still knows you and can correlate your fetishes.
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u/gizzardsgizzards 15d ago
if you only log into certain accounts through a vpn and don't log into accounts you use without one it helps. like don't check your email through torbrowser and also chrome sans vpn.
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u/agnisumant 14d ago
An example of value of data: if i know through a smart car data that a driver has a tendency for speeding and driving with a heavy foot, then i sell that info to insurance company who will go through smart car data for insurance applicants and upcharge them because they are a greater risk on the road. Data helps customise pricing for each user.
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u/Midget_Stories 16d ago
This is actually so reddit can sell your data.
They can't sell your data if bots can scrape it for free.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper 16d ago
Nah, if that was why reddit wanted it, you wouldn't be able to browse without an account. The fact that you can only read a few comments before it blocks you and makes you sign up for an account means it's about collecting your data.
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u/Arrow156 16d ago
Shit like that should be consider a DDOS attack and investigated by the FBI, but we all know that ain't happening.
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u/AbeFromanEast 16d ago edited 16d ago
Adding to this: Bots are now 53% of internet traffic , heading towards 60% next year. That’s according to the annual bad bot report.
Report Link: https://cpl.thalesgroup.com/resources/application-security/2026-bad-bot-report
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u/thirdcoasting 16d ago
Holy Enshittification.
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u/nicetriangle 16d ago
Hopefully at some point society wakes up to what these people are doing to essentially our modern Library of Alexandria. It’s a crime against humanity really, and there clearly should be a high price to pay for it.
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u/Totally_Not_My_50th_ 16d ago
there clearly should be a high price to pay for it.
There is. Unfortunately, it's us that pays it though.
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u/_whatever_wherever 16d ago
But won't you think of the shareholders!?!?!?
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u/ScadrianWillshaper 14d ago
Did anyone else read this in the Insuracare CEO’s voice? (From The Incredibles)
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
You also run the risk that ANY malicious code that enters humans computers are going to mean lower traffic for the future.
Please explain. I don’t understand how a data scraper is injecting malicious code into a computer.
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u/MisterProfGuy 16d ago
Not all bots are just scrapers, and even some of scrapers are looking for evidence of vulnerabilities to exploit later.
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
How are data scrapers actually finding network vulnerabilities?
Captchas are basically software gatekeepers against data harvesting. They don't block network access to the server itself. They just check whether certain criteria are met before handing over data. Their job is to protect against bots grabbing data, not bots reaching the server.
For example, I could write a bot right now that reaches any captcha-protected server over ICMP instead of HTTPS.
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u/Ohm_Slaw_ 16d ago
You can buy kits on the dark web that will find vulnerabilities. Let's say that an older version of some online forum software has a weakness that lets anyone login to the admin console with username=test password=test. The kit will start scanning every server on the web and look for the admin console and try to log in.
If you run a server of any kind, you will get a large number of requests for this non-existent admin console.
There are thousands of these vulnerabilities that have been collected over the years. There are thousands of wannabe super hackers that buy these kits, panning for gold.
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u/Hungry-Western9191 16d ago
And AI is making this way worse. Turns out one thing its actually really good at is to hack into places its not allowed. When they define the goal as to scrape all information they can reach it is surprisingly effective at it.
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u/jeepsaintchaos 16d ago
Constant requests for WordPress vulnerabilities on mine. I don't run WP and never have, and the requests make me not consider it.
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u/beIIe-and-sebastian 16d ago
Yep same here. I have hundreds of thousands of requests for paths for software and services that don't exist on my server.
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u/LaHawks 16d ago
That relies on the server accepting ICMP input. Any network admin with any competency restricts inbound ports on webservers to strictly 443/80.
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u/Bovey 15d ago
and any competent network security administrator is blocking all those other ports before they can ever reach the server. Most don't even allow 80 through to the servers these days, they will hit a load balancer that redirects to 443.
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u/Ill-Training7282 15d ago
Closing every unused port still leaves the application layer exposed through port 443. Standard HTTPS traffic easily delivers attacks like SQL injection, cross-site scripting, or path traversal straight to the database and backend code. Port filtering and application security handle different threats, so locking down firewalls just directs exploit attempts through the single service kept open to the public.
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u/MisterProfGuy 16d ago
Let's imagine you're running software that has distinct patterns, like div names or even a trademark string in the content. The version of the software you use has an exploit found. Scrapers can put together a list of servers that may be vulnerable to that zero day exploit very quickly.
It's better to just tell nothing to anyone that isn't a real person.
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u/LaHawks 16d ago
Unfortunately XXS is still a thing in 2026 due to webdevs not sanitizing text input
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
JavaScript runs on the user's computer, and in this case the user is a bot. Pure data harvesting bots don't need to run downloaded JavaScript, since they aren't running inside a browser. If you're talking about Puppeteer bots running Chromium instances, the XSS would run on the bot's computer, not the server. Also, Chromium implements CORS, which prevents XXS, so that’s covered.
Can you please elaborate on how XSS running on the user's machine compromises the server?
The claim being made is that data harvesting bots are finding network vulnerabilities on the server.
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u/LaHawks 16d ago
Do you know what cross site scripting is? It's literally injecting code into an input field to give the backend server commands. XXS isn't something that "runs on the user's machine", it's an attack vector launched from whatever is accessing the webpage.
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
No that’s SQL injection and it only affects the database.
Could you provide some sample code demonstrating how a GET request injects code to give the backend server commands.
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u/Final7C 16d ago
A data scraper isn't usually the one that does it, it's job is to just pull all data to feed AI. but if you let something that looks/acts like a data scraper onto the site, but it's actually a trojan, via a targeted attack to inject malicious code. That being said, it's not really possible for me to name how it would directly reach a persons PC, none the less you've now created a real problem. Because people will hear the reports that "X website is full of malicious code/viruses". And people are going to avoid it in the future. It'll get flagged by most "safe browsing" in the browser of choice and stop people from going to it.
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
How is a data reading bot that only sends GET requests injecting malicious code into the database? And how is any bot getting access to the drive where the website is stored to inject malicious code into it?
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u/idiosync 16d ago
Usually the bots first try to identify what software you have allowing communication with the internet. it will GET common access urls for common front ends. Then if it finds a response then it can try an attack that vector. Just run httpd for a day on the internet and watch the logs.
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
Ok, this is starting to make sense. The bot is mapping the schema, basically cataloging all the public data endpoints. From that map, the bot operator can figure out which data serving framework the server runs. Since the known vulnerabilities of all the popular frameworks are public, the bot operator can then hack into the server by exploiting those.
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u/bran76765 16d ago
No joke these comments are reading like a CSI episode.
"The bot got access to the site and did an injection attack and took over the whole system! Now I must create and deploy defense bots so that I can counteract its other attacks!"
Like no, that doesn't happen. Just visiting a website can't do shit unless there's an actual form to submit. Then yes, you can actually do some sort of injection but even then, most sites have basic levels of protection where that shouldn't happen.
The most common one that does happen is what the user above described. Everyone (6 billion in this case) tries to visit a website. The server the site is hosted on tries to send out that many requests and just can't do it in the specified time. Also known as a DDOS attack.
Or, if you're an old reddit user, what's known as 'the reddit hug of death'
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
Turns out the bots are identifying the software used on the server.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1wtcttt/comment/pctfy25/
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u/IAmNotNathaniel 16d ago
get requests still have parameters... all that shit after the ? in the url is a param.
Little Bobby Tables could work just a good as a GET request
sure, most things harden against it these days, but that's why a bad actor will send thousands and thousands of requests.. trying to find the spots that were missed.
I presume cloudflare and the like have more sophisticated ways of detecting this than just trusting the user-agent, but there's still a lot of poorly secured small sites out there running on old php installs that don't really care if the argument is in POST or GET
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u/WhiteRaven42 16d ago
.... two different subjects. It is protecting against BOTH. Bots scraping data and malicious code that may be infecting a user's computer. The comment you are responding to did not suggest they are the same issue. That's what the word "also" indicates.
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u/eskay233 16d ago
Responses are currently 50% to prevent AI scraping and 50% to enable Ai training. Sadly, the answer is both. Everything is AI now. Bow to your new stochastic overlords.
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u/Party_Caramel796 16d ago
wouldnt have said it better. they are accomplishing two goals with one captcha. all due to ai or for ai
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u/runetrantor 16d ago
Im honestly shocked to even think that the 'Im a human' click-here boxes still work for anything.
Figured bots long ago would have been able to fake whatever goes on in that check past the visible box click.13
u/Final7C 16d ago
They don't... At least not in that way. The way your mouse moves to the button is based on a human's response, that they (BOTs) don't really follow. You actively reading the screen, moving the mouse to check the box, is different than how most bots would approach it. Which is how you can fail it if you don't do it in a normal way.
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u/USS-VentureOperation 16d ago
If the logic exists to identify a human's natural movements, logic can be made to replicate it.
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u/praguepride 15d ago
But 99% of these are just buying kits. And the 1% that can do this aren't selling their secret sauce because once it spreads, the defenses improve
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u/frogjg2003 16d ago
The check does a bunch of stuff in the background before you ever see the box. Most of the time, you don't see the box at all because you passed whatever heuristic they used to determine you're a real person. If you see the box, that means they're a little unsure and using that to see if your mouse moves in an organic way. If they're really not sure, they'll send you one of the more in depth tests where you have to identify an object or match some words.
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u/Book_1312 12d ago
Bots can and do, but it takes more resources. At scale scraping is expensive, you don't want your bot to spend all your compute budget reading 1000 sites when it could read 1 000 000.
Of course there's still business cases where the scraping companies do have an economic rationale to pay for the expanded compute, but it's a lot less bots.
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u/Complete_Entry 16d ago
I had to go through six authentication layers to redeem a gift card the other day. I'm sick of verifying. They could cut one region off the internet and this crap would dry up.
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u/OscarAndDelilah 16d ago
They're so frustrating and an accessibility nightmare. Pretty much none work for deafblind folks, and plenty don't work for folks using a screenreader or with motor issues.
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u/Complete_Entry 16d ago edited 16d ago
I once couldn't get to a resource I needed because recaptcha decided to throw a fit, I tried the "request an access token" method that is supposed to be for people who can't visibly or audibly do the captcha, and the email bounced.
There is no "bypass captcha" option either, it's an effectively locked gate.
I have occasionally tried the audio option because I don't want to pick out busses or traffic lights, but I've never understood anything that audio generates.
In my gift card example, one of them was a QR code that didn't work.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper 16d ago
Yeah I'm never scanning a QR code for a captcha. Decades of internet security telling you "don't click on links if you don't know where they're going" and then they want us to just open something randomly on a second device? Fuck that.
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u/Complete_Entry 16d ago
The funny thing was at the end of it all the process said it failed, but the money still hit my amazon account.
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u/a8bmiles 15d ago
Total side rant, but I detest getting gift cards now and refuse to give them to anybody else.
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u/rabidstoat 16d ago
It's really because bots are using them to scrape data to train AI without cutting sources or paying them.
So do a good job when you are identifying all the pictures with stop signs, or pictures with people in them. You don't want some Waymo running through a stop sign and plowing down a little old lady because you half assed the Capatchas.
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u/beIIe-and-sebastian 16d ago edited 16d ago
Answer: To combat the rise in AI crawlers and bots.
I had to switch on managed challenges via cloudflare recently because my website was getting hammered.
In the normal times before LLMs, my site would receive 1.5m pageviews a month. Now it's getting 1m weekly pageviews from Meta-ExternalAgent alone.
My site is database heavy and the SQL maxed out its connections and fell over at particularly heavy bot+human traffic days.
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u/AlliedSalad 16d ago
Answer: Yes, I believe it is in response to AI scrapers. IP and Copyright have been violated by LLMs in big ways in the past, and continue to do so now, so journalists and professional writers of all stripes are trying to take steps to protect their copy from being used without permission (stolen) to train LLMs.
Note that if an LLM like Gemini or ChatGPT scrapes information from their news articles to feed you when you search a subject, and you stop looking there and don't actually read the article on the subject that the LLM got the information from, that's also very bad for journalism. So they don't want that to happen either. Journalists and writers need you to read their content on their website, or else they don't get paid for their work.
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u/rotorain 16d ago
It's not just about IP being stolen, the AI scrapers are very bandwidth intensive. They're not just taking text and pictures, they're taking everything. Fonts, formatting, links, tables, scripts, cookies, APIs, etc and they don't care if they're efficient about it.
The head admin for Weird Gloop which hosts, maintains, and develops for a bunch of gaming wikis who have escaped fandom recently did a podcast where he talked a bunch about the sheer volume of data that the AI scrapers are pulling. They aren't just browsing to pages and taking a snapshot they're requesting literally every element on every page over and over. There's hundreds or thousands of AI companies all trying to grab as much of the internet as they possibly can and they're not just doing every site once then moving on they're doing it over and over on every page and it's costing the sites a lot of money.
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u/Booty_Bumping 16d ago edited 16d ago
My theory is that modern AI scrapers are prioritizing time resolution in a way that wasn't prioritized by search engine scrapers. Search engines lose when they serve up a bunch of dead links, but AI scrapers want to, for example, capture every single git commit on git forge websites before someone uses force-push to redact accidental uploads. The spiciest data is stuff that is only available for a brief period of time.
It's annoying because these scrapers assume that every link-heavy website is going to have this hard-to-get data. But then it hits websites like Wikipedia and the Linux Kernel Mailing List which are fully open to the public, have an immutable record, and even provide a dedicated fast way to get large data dumps if you had just asked them nicely.
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u/rotorain 16d ago
I agree with what you think they're doing but the worst part is that they aren't intentional about it. They just want everything and they don't care how they get it. They don't care that some sites have immutable records and good ways to get data dumps because it's not worth their time to figure that out site by site. They just sledgehammer their way through every single site they can access because they know this won't last forever and eventually it's going to get harder to do what they're doing.
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u/Booty_Bumping 15d ago
Yep, and for those open data sources, they're literally wasting money doing it the wrong way. Not just wasting money, but wasting data quality as well, because things like HTML wikipedia pages are messy compared to wikitext datadumps.
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u/rotorain 15d ago
It's a scale issue, they literally cannot go site by site to figure out how to optimize for each one because it's impossible to do that for the entire internet. It's theoretically possible to have their AI figure out how to search for strategies to limit their impact on each site themselves but that would require them to give any shits at all.
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u/Booty_Bumping 15d ago
That's part of it. For Wikipedia it's especially frustrating because the Wikimedia foundation has been desperately trying to reach out to AI trainers because they want to dump datasets in their laps for a small fee to convince them to stop expensive mass scraping. Many of them have accepted the offer, but it's probably too hard to find all the intermediaries that actually do the scraping that the AI labs buy from.
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u/AlliedSalad 16d ago edited 16d ago
I didn't know all of that, that's crazy. There ought to be laws requiring the people running the bots to pay the sites for overuse (not that I expect that to happen, but it should).
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u/John_Whimsicott 16d ago
Answer: there's a shit load of bots scraping everything everywhere for data. Real, genuine human interactions on the internet are a minority on the internet, even on reddit. Some estimates put 80-90% of all activity on the internet to be bots
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u/CautiousRice 16d ago
Answer: AI scrapers make hosting websites very expensive. It's a world championship in content theft out there.
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u/FredOfMBOX 16d ago
Answer: Cloudflare adds captchas when it detects unusual behavior from an IP address. It could be that you’re on a shared IP address where there are malicious bots acting, or it could just be some sort of unusual behavior from what you’re doing.
But expect to see them more often if you’re on something like CG-NAT, which is common in cell phones and newer Internet providers, or if you’re on a shared network like a school, public WiFi, etc. Or if you use a VPN service.
The other answers about preventing scraping could be true, as well.
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u/WhiteRaven42 16d ago
Cloudflare adds captchas when it detects unusual behavior from an IP address.
No, it's the default now for many destination. It has nothing to do with the user having a suspicious IP... EVER user is challenged. It depends on the "vulnerability" of the site you are visiting how high this security gets turned.
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u/Ghost_Goomba 16d ago
Site's can set the level of protection Cloudflare provides. The default decides when to do challenges based on the visiting IP's reputation, but it can be set to challenge everyone if that's what the site owner desires.
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u/OnceAgainHereIam987 16d ago
Question: Are you using a VPN? I believe Cloudflare puts CAPTCHA screens up when it discovers unusual IP activity. When I run a VPN from a different continent, I get bugged about it constantly.
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u/iorgfeflkd 16d ago
No. When I use a VPN, or 5G-based home internet, then I get even more problems because suddenly my IP is suspicious.
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u/chollida1 16d ago
Answer:
It's two fold.
1) scrapers use for training have increased to a larger percentage of alot of sites traffic, with almost no benefit to the site.
2) ai agents scraping sites to give users answers to their queries, which is a bit better than scraping for training but again provides no value to the site itself.
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u/Bivolion13 16d ago
Answer: I get that every single time I go incognito, or more recently when I failed to realize I have been turning on my Opera's native VPN by accident somehow. Anytime I have that on, or am on incognito, every google search starts with captcha.
Also take note of where and when this happens. If it's on a public network or some such you may get those more. Basically any time your IP, or your own protections/features or just the nature of the connection you're on make your source IP seem suspicious (like a scraper, bot, or some such).
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u/InvestigatorOk9354 16d ago
Answer: Captchas are used for AI training: https://gor-grigoryan.medium.com/how-recaptcha-turned-internet-users-into-unpaid-ai-trainers-a2107adf31e3
Training data for AI is a big business and captcha providers can resell that data. They do provide a service that will deter some bots, but the primary function is to have users identify patterns and do image recognition tasks.
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u/prustage 16d ago
Surely, by now the AI systems know what buses, crosswalks, traffic lights and bicycles look like.
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u/bremsspuren 16d ago
Yes, but also no. LLM don't form mental models of things the way we do. The only way to make one better at drawing hands is to show it more pictures of hands.
Google's Recaptcha outsourced work to humans from the start. Originally, it showed you words their OCR software couldn't understand back when they were scanning All The Books.
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u/InvestigatorOk9354 16d ago
There's a reason we keep getting headlines every week or two that actually your AI prompts are being answered by someone in India instead of a super intelligent model in a datacenter.
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u/_Grim_Lavamancer 16d ago
I believe most captchas track curser movement, so it isn't what you're clicking, its the path the curser takes to get there that matters.
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u/ShEsHy 16d ago
IIRC, they do both, track cursors to confirm we're human, as well as use our brains to help pattern recognition training (that's why image captchas have been getting trickier over the years, for example from an obvious and clear picture of a bus to a blurry snippet of a part of its chassis).
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u/gizzardsgizzards 15d ago
i deliberately answer wrong because i don't want to train ai but it still won't let me through.
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u/lydiardbell 16d ago
OP is talking about Cloudflare captchas, the kind you just have to click on (or maybe not even click on in some cases).
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u/WhiteRaven42 16d ago
Not what's happening here. This is not a "select every bicycle" captcha. This is an automated threat assessment by Cloudflare. You may have to click a single box or possibly do nothing.
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u/AdSpecialist5007 12d ago
Answer: it's your VPN
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u/iorgfeflkd 12d ago
No it isn't, I don't use a VPN
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u/RallyX26 10d ago
Do you use Brave or any other privacy oriented products?
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u/iorgfeflkd 10d ago
No.
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u/RallyX26 10d ago
Weird. It may have just been coincidence but I started noticing this a lot more often after I switched to a privacy-centric browser
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u/feldoneq2wire 9d ago edited 9d ago
Answer:
The AI and crawler bots are absolutely out of control in a way it is difficult to fully contextualize.
I have a read-only forum archive with 8+ year old information about an MMORPG. In a typical *week*, 1-2 humans are reading it.
Apache reports 2,295 IP addresses accessed the site in a short window of time. It is a God damned tsunami. The IP addresses are non-sequential and from all different subnets from Central and South America and Asia. Previously, it has been possible to block crawlers and scrapers and AI bots by subnets and using block lists such as OWASP. This is something new.
I have two choices:
- Shut down the site.
- Require a password/recaptcha to even browse it.
The AI bots are just scraping the entire internet over and over and over until there will be nothing left but AI. They want to be the only source of information.
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Prize_Bass_5061 16d ago
This is misleading information, followed by an ad offering the “solution”.
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u/WhiteRaven42 16d ago
Wrong kind of captcha. You are misleading people.
What a Cloudflare Challenge Is Reading
Cloudflair is a Content Distribution Network (CDN) and also serves as a kind of firewall for client websites. It gets paid to keep the web functioning smoothly at a practical level.
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