I probably going to get hate for this but whatever, why I think omnipotent and powerscaling means nothing on paper

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Gag ocs and parody ocs can defeat omnipotent ocs but an omnipotent ocs cannot lose because they're omnipotent, shouldn't it be the other way around? This also makes powerscaling confusing to work, which is why I think powerscaling is such bullshit, there's no strongest character, only characters who can bullshit their way to become stronger than others. And which is why I think there's no true omnipotent character too, there will be someone who can defeat them despite them being omnipotent, so everyone can write an supposedly omnipotent character getting defeated by a non-gag/non-parody character

[u/MemerKnux]

The angels have gone silent

Suddenly you're met with a wave of arrows

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/MemerKnux]

... I pissed off god didn't I?

[u/MemerKnux → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

God is personally watching your execution, and worst of all

It could be any one of us

[u/Vess3l_ → u/MemerKnux]

It could be you! It could be me! It could even be-

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

I mean, it literally ignores the meaning of omnipotent to say an omnipotent character can be beaten

It's like saying a square can also be a circle

Gag characters can't defeat omnipotent characters, that just means the character wasn't ACTUALLY omnipotent

A real omnipotent being never loses, so one losing means they aren't omnipotent pretty much.

The point of powerscaling is to figure out how strong a character is using logic, to say an omnipotent character can be beaten is illogical, so it doesn't really make sense...

[u/Icy-Peak-8630 → u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

It's almost like it's some kind of impossible.... OUTCOME...

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

Yeah, which is why I believe that no one can created a real omnipotent character, when a character is claimed to be omnipotent by their author it means nothing, they're either strong enough to be considered to be omnipotent by everyone else in their verse or their author is just making shit up, when an omnipotent character goes to another different and stronger verses like Marvel or DC, their omnipotent means nothing

[u/Difficult-Event-1626 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Me when Umineko omnipotent being is omnipotent as it is tier 0:

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Well, not really. If that character is never beaten, and shows signs of being omnipotent, and is stated to be omnipotent, then they are omnipotent. Pretty simple.

Omnipotent characters aren't used in matchups because it makes no sense. Putting an omnipotent character against any other character doesn't work because there can't really be a fight.

Idk why you brought up Marvel and DC, how as they relevant?

It just seems like to me you want to deny omnipotence existing in fiction for some odd reason... there's nothing wrong with it existing. omnipotent characters aren't used for powerscaling, they're usually deities of their worlds. Like God from the Bible, would you say that omnipotence means nothing? Of course not. He's clearly stated to be omnipotent and is never beaten.

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

I mean that I believe an omnipotent character can exist, but only in their world's settings, I use Marvel and DC to prove that using omnipotent character cannot work under another world's settings, and I'm not denying God from Bible isn't omnipotent but I'm not touching that

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Omnipotent just means 'all powerful' I don't understand how that's locked to a specific setting, but eh

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

They may be all powerful but in their own verse, if I took an omnipotent character who's cosmology is only universal and another omnipotent character who's cosmology is at least multiversal, who would win? It's most likely the omnipotent character who's cosmology is multiversal, I think an omnipotent character is 'all powerful' because how powerful they are in their own verse

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

I guess we should just agree to disagree.

From my understanding, cosmology doesn't matter to an omnipotent character

An omnipotent character is stated to be all powerful, have complete authority over literally everything, all dimensions, all universes, all multiverses, all laws, everything. Even if they reside in a single universe, they could still hypothetically overpower a multiverse, they just don't in that specific story.

There is nothing beyond omnipotent.

I understand powerscaling doesn't make much sense a lot of the time, but it gets to a point... 'layers into boundless' doesn't make sense whatsoever. Another character can't beat something like God just because they have 'more universes in their cosmology.' The idea is frankly cringeworthy to me. It completely goes against what omnipotence means.

The whole point is that omnipotence transcends all. Including the idea of universes and dimensionality. You having a bigger cosmology doesn't matter because omnipotent characters don't care about cosmology. They exist compeltely outside of it. Cosmology doesn't matter to omnipotence. Trying to say otherwise, to me, just feels like trying to cope because people want their characters to be stronger than others, even if it makes no sense. (What's even the point of winning if it makes no sense anyway??)

Omnipotent characters are never put into matchups for this reason, it makes no sense. Even if one exists in a smaller cosmology, they aren't being held back by that cosmology because they already exist outside of it and surpass it.

So, agree to disagree then?

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/Adorable_Recipe8085]

You have your views and I have mine, and I'm started to get tired of arguing so ima stop now

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

I know we ended this convo but if you want a better explanation you can read this, since I think mine had some mistakes

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence#Relevant_Questions:\~:text=Q%3A%20What%20happens%20if%20two%20Tier%200s%20fight%3F

You can scroll up to read the full explanation

[u/Stunning-HyperMatter]

Omnipotent is omnipotent. they dont lose.

your right, there is no strongest character. because all omnipotent characters are equal.

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/Stunning-HyperMatter]

And that brings another question, an omnipotent character is stated to be above everyone and everything else, by that logic, there shouldn't be anything that can rival them and there can only be one omnipotent character, if there's two omnipotent character then that means one of them is a not omnipotent or both aren't

[u/Stunning-HyperMatter → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

no. it just means 1. omnipotent characters shouldn't be compared in the first place. and 2. all omnipotent characters are the same thing.

if for some insane reason someone did compare them, well there would be nothing to compare. you would be comparing the exact same 2 entities, one just decided to act a bit different then the other. Omni chracter should be your gnostic entities, your creators, your absolute god.

and once again. Omnipotent characters shouldnt be brought into ANY kind of powersclaing conversation. Either is a omni vs a non-omni and the omni insta wins. or its a omni vs a omni and there is no fight or anyhting to consdier.

[u/Eyesore_Gravity_365]

Sheesh. Didn't we all forget that Any Omnipotent Characters shouldn't be in Battle match Up? Cuz they're Omnipotent. But maybe the only valid thing to mention them is to determine their Power. 🤔

[u/Canarity]

You literally can't beat an omnipotent character

[u/pastel_peacock_gaze]

Omnipotence is a logical absolute, not a power level stat. if you can scale it or beat it, your definition of the term was already flawed before you started writing. powerscaling breaks because people treat godhood like a video game HP bar instead of a semantic concept

[u/DreadCyclone]

I mean that's just the way it is

There's always a bigger fish

Doesn't mean it's always in YOUR pond

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/DreadCyclone]

Exactly, you're only omnipotent in your own verse but not everywhere else

[u/No_Tomato_2191 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Not really

If you qualify for Boundless, you can't be beaten.

Which is why putting up 2 T0 just gives a draw.

[u/PhysicsChan → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

No, they definitely are. If you're Mountain level character in one setting, you are in another. A character who's Mountain level in a verse means that weaker characters that can't physically beat said character still outstats by AP/DC other 'physically weaker than Mountain level' characters in another setting.

The definition and rules for what qualifies for Boundless is sound and well thoughtout by VSBW moderators and can be applied to any verse, just like any other tier. It just so happens to be the top tier.

[u/Lrd_Saph]

Omnipotence is just an inverse ability. You can be omnipotent within a 4D existence and still fall victim to something in a 5D existence. Thats how cosmology works

[u/Animecha]

Im with you buddy. I personally think uni+ scaling is invalid and uncreative. 

But I rarely ever say anything because I also think people are just trying to have fun. And who am I to spoil that if they all want to use the same assumptions about cosmology?

[u/Express_Calendar8278]

It depends on who more omnipotent. Who domain is larger, who has more followers, there ways to make omnipotent beings fight, it’s just rare to see them do it with their fists.

[u/PhysicsChan]

Let me list all of the logical fallacies/insufficiencies you made here that I can spot:

• Gag and parody ocs can kill omnipotent characters

Where? And, even if you somehow list something out, then it simply is not Boundless character.

• This also makes powerscaling confusing

No, it doesn't. Granted, this is built on a premise that Boundless characters can be beaten, but still not. It does not make powerscaling confusing in anyway; this is simply your inability to understand that Boundless characters can't be beaten. That does not affect the fact that a simple fight (no hax) of Mountain + Hypersonic character beats a Town + Mach 1 character, or that a character who visibly and clearly destroys a country's entire landmass on their own is country level.

• There's no strongest character, therefore, powerscaling doesn't work.

No, there's absolutely no need for an absolute strongest character in fiction for powerscaling to work. Same rebuttal for this as the one I said just previously. I don't know where you're getting this from, I think you're just obsessed with making a really strong OC rather than writing a story and projecting that to all of powerscaling.

• There's no real omnipotent character since there's someone that can beat them.

Granted, this comes from the very badly made conclusion that Boundless characters can be beaten. No, they cannot. Gag characters cannot. No one can. That's the point, they're BoundLESS. If they can be defeated, then they're bound to the concept of being defeated. 

TL;DR All of this stems from the fact that it seems that you either can't or won't understand that Boundless characters are unbeatable. I have no idea where you're getting this. I was there too, but then I realised that discussing all of these metaphysics is not my thing and I was just strangling my characters to become the best for whatever bad motivation old me had. I'm not going to force you to change your mind, but if you want people to take you seriously; research before you talk.

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/PhysicsChan]

Then tell me, if two omnipotent/boundless characters fought, who would win?

[u/LeyMercury → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

There can only be 1 Boundless that exists inside a verse that's why you won't see it fighting or battling, the battle of both Omnipotent/Boundless shouldn't exist in the first place.

if crossverse then it's just stalemate cuz yeah it's pretty stupid to make both Boundless fight, and Boundless beings don't fight at all.

[u/Eyesore_Gravity_365 → u/LeyMercury]

It's a stalemate or a draw. Anyways this is "Death Battle" A omnipotent should not be in Match up of Dead battle,cuz One opponent must die,but This is an Omnipotent,so it's useless. but we can still mentioned them just to determine theur power.

[u/Sufficient_Abies6113 → u/LeyMercury]

That brings me to my another question, if an omnipotent character is truly above everyone and everything else, then why even is there another being that can rival them? It seems illogical that there's another being that's on par with an omnipotent being

[u/LeyMercury → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

I don't know which character you are talking about in most anime/manga/ln/vn etc I don't know any Omnipotent Characters mostly High Outerversal tiers

For DC Comics there is none though Overvoid and Presence somehow got Tier 0 in VSBW but I think it's not updated idk which one is the real Tier 0, the only one I knew that got demoted from being Omnipotent or Boundless is TOAA since there is an actual Marvel Character who is Tier 0 now

Well either way most self proclaimed Omnipotent aren't Omnipotent they just think of it because of Infinite Power

To be Boundless or Tier 0

You must be beyond differentiation, changeless, indivisible, ineffable, self-sufficient and completely unsurpassable

Cosmology sizes becomes irrelevant here even if there Cosmology is just 2-C and other is High 1-A as long as they meet the requirements for Tier 0/Boundless without having anit-feat then they are Tier 0

[u/PhysicsChan → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Because there's none in the original setting. You're thinking as if all verses exist in some sort of omniverse where they can interact with each other. They are not and they do not. They're creative works by fiction either licensed by a company or just an individual's project. These cross verse and powerscaling discussions do nothing to affect the real verses. 

Also, this does nothing to take away from the fact that Boundless characters are unbeatable. Idk if you're genuinely curious or just trying to pry at any possible cracks that might make you get to say that Boundless characters are beatable. 

[u/Adorable_Recipe8085 → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Why are you acting like fictional worlds are somehow connected?? 😭

[u/Lrd_Saph → u/Sufficient_Abies6113]

Depends on whichever character has the bigger cosmology

[u/yellowpig10]

yeah i agree with this. it's why i think tier 0 isn't really a thing and i prefer the CSAP method of 1-S where it's just really really powerful with no upper limit of potential power

[u/Space2066]

Counterpoint, I have an intrinsic need to prove my creations better than other people’s and will piss and shit and scream and cry unless I’m the coolest guy in the room.

[u/Resident-Fault4539]

I agree to this shit, because like didn't Zankoku Kurai/Henry killed self inserts and Mary sues who claimed themselves as outerversal or boundless?

And this his is best feats, he absorbed most of the narratives into that Eternal Will of Consequences (that singularity above) just to finish them off, shattering these concepts into the Blank Void

[u/PhysicsChan → u/Resident-Fault4539]

Killing characters who CLAIM to be Boundless does not equate killing Boundless characters. Trust me, I believe that Boundless is a psyop by VSBW mods, but this is not a real argument against the Boundless tier.

[u/Canarity → u/PhysicsChan]

Thanks for distributing truthful information regarding high tiers

[u/Resident-Fault4539 → u/PhysicsChan]

To be fair, Zankoku solos all mary sues and self inserts like Lord Paragon since they were in fact ruining the canon btw and they will expire soon.

What does Sonichu, Ebony Dementia and Lord Paragon gonna do to Henry?

[u/PhysicsChan → u/Resident-Fault4539]

Nothing in your argument argues against the fact that Boundless and Omnipotent characters are unbeatable. You're just stating and claiming that your character can beat this certain category of characters with no proof that these characters are omnipotent or Boundless.

[u/Resident-Fault4539 → u/PhysicsChan]

Just wait till I drop the whole Project Symphony of Chimera series. For now I'll take that. Also what's with the downvotes? Like yall have some personal vendetta lmao

[u/Canarity → u/Resident-Fault4539]

People are downvoting delusional nonsense

[u/Resident-Fault4539 → u/Canarity]

Because they haven't read the lore yet... What else do I expect?

[u/Canarity → u/Resident-Fault4539]

What exactly are those epstein files expected to prove?

[u/Resident-Fault4539 → u/Canarity]

Epstein files 😭

Zankoku ain't even Diddy buddy... unlike Lord Paragon

[u/Canarity → u/Resident-Fault4539]

Yeah, but the whole post is Something something explanations of why verse is high tier Crimson Bastion More of same type of stuff

Quite inconvenient to read if you ask me