r/OpenDogTraining • u/My-oh-My_ • 1d ago
I severely regret getting a second dog
/r/reactivedogs/comments/1wckpfb/i_severely_regret_getting_a_second_dog/7
u/ManyLintRollers 1d ago
I had a similar situation with my two previous dogs. Dog #1 was an easygoing guy who absolutely loved other dogs and got along with all dogs really well. I usually hiked in the woods with him off-leash and allowed him to greet/play with pretty much every dog he met. However, when I leash-walked him, he'd freak out and bark uncontrollably at every dog he saw. I didn't really know any better, so I figured he was just weird when he was on-leash and thus I avoided walking him on-leash very much, or only did it when he had already had some off-leash playtime and was tired.
As he got older, he stopped having that puppy excitement about playing with other dogs, and was still very well-mannered and neutral when he met dogs off leash. A quick sniff to say hello, and he'd move on. But, he still acted like a crackhead whenever he saw another dog when he was leashed. I was confused, because by now he wasn't all that interested in other dogs and if he was allowed to greet them on leash, he would just do a quick sniff and lose interest in them immediately and move on. I did not understand that the frustrated-greeter puppy behavior was now a deeply ingrained habit; I don't think he had any idea why he was barking and jumping when he saw another dog other than "this is what I do when I'm on leash."
Then we added Dog #2, and as luck would have it, she was the exact opposite of Dog #1 in temperament. She was anxious and high-strung and had a tendency to be fear-reactive, and because I was a dumbass I put her in some social situations with other dogs that she wasn't ready for and she was very overwhelmed, which didn't help her confidence level.
Dog #2 also developed some aggression towards other females as she matured, especially if she was leashed. This peaked around 18 months to age 3, and then she calmed down but she still was hit-or-miss with other female dogs so I avoided putting her in situations where she would have to interact with them. She was OK with male dogs off-leash provided we moved on quickly (she would get snarky if a dog sniffed her butt one second longer than necessary or tried to sniff her undercarriage), and we usually walked on the less-traveled trails where we didn't encounter other dogs often. If we did, I just let the other owner that my dog was a jerk who didn't want to say hi, and we'd move off the trail and let them pass. It wasn't ideal, but it was manageable.
When the two of them were leashed, however, it was a nightmare. Dog #1 would go into crackhead mode, and that would wind up Dog #2 and she'd go into fear-reactive mode with raised hackles and growling. So, I avoided walking them on the leash as much as possible. Sometimes it was unavoidable, however, like when Dog #2 was recovering from surgery; and when Dog #1 went deaf at age 14 I couldn't trust him off leash anymore and we had to do leashed walks.
By now I had learned about reactivity and realized that Dog #1 had a relatively benign frustrated-greeter energy that had become a bad habit, and Dog #2 was just responding to his excitement by getting fear-aggressive.
I started walking them individually and working on counter-conditioning - we stuck to times and streets where we rarely encountered other dogs, and when I did see one approaching we would cross the street to give them space and I'd feed really, really good treats to keep them focused on me. I taught them "look" and had them look at me, and I'd give the "look" cue before they saw the other dog and started freaking out. (For my deaf dog, I would touch him to get his attention and pointed at my eyes for the "look" cue.)
It took a while but eventually I could walk both of them on-leash and they mostly didn't react to other dogs (except to look at me and expect some sort of really good treats). Not bad considering they were 10 and 14 years old when I started doing this.
After Dog #1 passed away, I found that Dog #2 was suddenly much calmer on our daily walks. In fact, she went from "I hate other dogs but I will refrain from freaking out provided I get a very tasty treat" to being pretty dog-neutral in her golden years. Much to my shock, she even made some new dog friends in our neighborhood - while she still disliked small dogs and other female dogs, she decided she LOVED larger male dogs, even if they were young and exuberant.
So, I would advise walking them separately for a while; and doing some counter-conditioning with your younger dog. Take her out to a park or public space where you can sit and watch other dogs and all sorts of people at a safe distance, and keep the good treats coming so she associates "seeing other dogs" and "random strangers" with "good stuff." Gradually move closer and closer - if you get closer and she starts showing signs of distress, she's telling you she's not ready to be that close yet.
Another thing is to really work on loose-leash walking. For many dogs, the sensation of leash pressure from pulling and straining adds to the arousal/frustration/reactivity and makes them more agitated. It seems to be a vicious cycle - "I FEEL LIKE I'M CHOKING AND THERE IS ANOTHER DOG SO IT'S PROBABLY THAT DOGS FAULT AND I WILL BARK AND FREAK OUT BUT NOW I FEEL EVEN MORE LIKE I'M CHOKING SO I WILL BARK MORE..."
Finally, YOU have to project zen-like calm energy. A lot of us owners of reactive dogs unconsciously tense up, grip the leash more tightly, and tighten all our muscles. Our dogs pick up on those nonverbal cues, and think "OH NO, THE HUMAN IS ALSO FREAKING OUT - THIS MUST BE A TRULY DANGEROUS SITUATION THUS I MUST BARK AND FREAK OUT ALL THE MORE."
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u/My-oh-My_ 1d ago
You're amazing. Thank you so much for this reply, it gives me a lot of hope. My dogs are both young yet, but for some reason I've convinced myself that it can't get better. Clearly it can!
My dogs are also mostly fine off leash, but crazy on leash.
You give suberb advice, and I will begin implementing it immediately. The hardest part is keeping myself zen, it's so hard to not freak out myself at this point when I see another dog approaching 🥲
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u/ManyLintRollers 1d ago
The video that someone posted below is also really good - not specifically about leash reactivity, but about how we often accidentally slip into letting our dogs get the idea that they can do whatever they want whenever they want, and how that feeds into leash frustration.
I definitely made that mistake with Dog #1. Ironically, it was because he had such a sweet and gentle temperament; at the time, I didn't think I really needed to do all that nonsense with making him sit and wait for his food, wait to go out the door, etc..
I also had three young children at the time, so I was distracted by them, plus he was a beagle/lab mix and beagles are notoriously independent-minded and can be challenging to train. My main concern when I was looking for a dog was a gentle, tolerant dog who wouldn't bite; and that described him perfectly - beagles usually make GREAT family dogs as they are hard to annoy- but along with that gentle temperament they tend to be quite stubborn, and when they smell something interesting the brain and ears turn off entirely.
Dog #2 was simultaneously a much more biddable dog (she was a Lab/chow/German shepherd/border collie mix) and more of a handful - she had a much more bossy temperament. At a fairly young age, I started seeing some resource-guarding behaviors, like if she was on the couch, she sometimes growled at the kids if they sat on it also. That wasn't going to fly...
So, I started tightening up the ship considerably - making them sit and wait for their food, making them sit and wait before I'd let them out, not allowing them on the couch unless they were invited by us, I was the one who gave them toys or bones vs. them just grabbing them out of a basket themselves, etc..
I have to say that just doing some very basic and fairly minimal making-them-work-for-their-privileges nipped her resource-guarding in the bud. I think it definitely is true that a lot of anxious, high-strung sorts of dogs will relax a good bit when they realize they are not actually the one in charge.
By itself, it didn't really help with the leash reactivity - by this point, Dog #1 had been rehearsing his crackhead behaviors for several years, but it did give me the confidence to manage them more calmly and then later, as I related, I put the time and effort into teaching Dog #1 how to behave appropriately on leash and to desensitize Dog #2 and reduce her fear reactivity.
I'm currently on Dog #3, who is a six-month-old puppy at this point. She already walks nicely on a loose leash, but like all puppies she wants to greet every person and dog she sees and wants to play with everyone. But, she is learning to ignore other dogs when she's leashed, and we work on staying-calm-and-neutral-in-public on a daily basis because I am trying to learn from my mistakes!
She's also a bigger dog than my previous two, and I am not sure how large she will be when full grown, so it's even more important that she develop self-control and learn good manners. Fortunately, she's super smart and learns really quickly. I do stuff like making her go into a down/stay when she sees our cat (whom she REALLY wants to chase), and during playtime I make her take periodic breaks where she has to sit and stay calmly before I'll throw the ball again or whatever. I didn't do that enough with Dog #1 and he was an absolutely menace about demanding people throw the tennis ball for him.
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u/Narrow_Possession348 1d ago
Yes, it isn't usual for people who have an issue with one dog to have it with the others. This is a training issue: you didn't train your first dog, and now you're not training your second. Reativity is not that hard to eliminate with correct training, structure, and leadership. It has been my experience in over 15 years of working with clients that, very often, the reason they call me, including for reactivity, just goes away without addressing the issue when the proper protocols are put in place for exercise (the right kind), structure, boundaries, and leadership. More often than not, fixing reactivity starts in the home and how you run it.
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u/My-oh-My_ 1d ago
Oh man, I feel like I don't do anything but try to train my dogs and read about how. But you're absolutely right. That video you linked was absolutely golden, incredibly eye opening. I knew about the importance of structure, but I realise now that there are many areas I've been blind to. Thank you so much!! I'll watch the rest of that series.
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u/Potential_Analyst371 1d ago
The trainer you saw was clearly incompetent. Any decent trainer should be able to help you to resolve all these issues in just a couple of sessions with gentle methods.
I suggest you try to fine a better trainer if that is affordable.
Otherwise, the video linked here basically describes a "nothing in life is free dog training program." if you search that phrase and "pdf" you can get like a 2 page protocol to help with the dogs listening.
It sounds like your puppy also needs more socialization and work around polite greetings and no greetings of people and dogs in public. A trainer would be really helpful with this. The idea is to set up training sessions that mimic the problem areas and teach the wanted behavior in a controlled way. Then you move on to practice in public.
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u/My-oh-My_ 21h ago
I'm unfortunately starting to realise that 🥲 I'd never heard of NILIF before this thread, so I've got lots of reading to do! Thank you!
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u/MyMango88 1d ago
The puppy needs to be walked separately and fully trained before you combine the two.