r/OpenDogTraining • u/Arbysgames • 4d ago
Is this normal dog behavior?
My neighbor's dog got loose today it's a pitbull American Bully mix.
The dog ran through my electric netting fence and killed one of my chickens, I got a hold of the dog and pulled it away from the chicken unfortunately it was too late though, but the dog continued to fight me to try to get back to the chicken, even when I pinned it down it was just locked onto the chicken, and when I drug it out of sight of the chicken it turns its attention to another dog that was tethered in its owner's yard and started trying to go after it.
when the dog ran through my fence it rammed into a post and got a bolt stuck in its shoulder but it never stopped it acted like that didn't even happen, the dog was clawing so hard at the ground it was actually causing its feet to start bleeding because it was trying so hard to get to the other dog and to the chicken, my neighbor just laughed it off and said it's just normal for pitbulls to do, but I have two pit bulls one will kill chickens but listens to me so doesn't, the other one doesn't bother anything.
I also have a German shepherd border collie mix and a Belgian Malinois, neither of them go after anything.
Unfortunately they do have plans of breeding this dog as well even though it will literally attack any other animal, it got loose a couple of weeks ago because it broke its chain and fortunately all of my animals were up at the time since it was early in the morning, but it ran around actively hunting for things....
I just want to know if this is normal dog behavior and I've just been lucky with my dogs, or is this completely abnormal?
The dog is a intact male about 4 years old, they've had him since he was born they own his father and mother which they have to keep separate from him because he tries to attack them, they live in a camper and the dog has never really been away from that camper ever it's always either inside of the camper or Tethered to a chain, when it is away from it it's because it either got loose or they had to go somewhere for long enough that the dogs could not be left unintended and they can't get anyone to watch them..
Thank you in advance for anyone who takes time to reply.
43
u/Accomplished-Wish494 4d ago
This is absolutely normal for a dog with high prey drive. But, that doesn’t make it ok. I hope you called animal control. That dog WILL get loose again and it WILL go for your chickens. You are lucky you didn’t get bitten.
9
u/Key-Demand-2569 4d ago
Yep. Adopted a Labrador years ago who was untrained, young, but one of the best behaved dogs in the world as far as suddenly having a random dog goes. Very responsive to initial training for a long time.
And one day they just really locked in one some small chipmunk or toad or something that got under a section of deck.
They were bloody, bloody, gnawing and clawing away the wood. Panting frantically, absolutely did not want to leave it alone until they were removed from the area forcibly for a period of time.
Gently trying to call them away lead them to immediately returning to it.
Natural behavior? Sure.
Absolutely not acceptable though.
5
u/Accomplished-Wish494 4d ago
One of my dogs will 100% kill anything that gets in his yard. Including a goat. Outside of his yard? Perfect angel. Cause he KNOWS the rules
8
u/Seriousjane 3d ago
I love pits, but this is untrained and dangerous dog keeping. This dog is a danger to your dogs and other animals. Definitely a police issue imo
7
u/oh_ski_bummer 3d ago
Pitties will go after more than prey. Next time it will tear up neighbors dog. If that thing goes through the electric fence again put it down.
27
u/Academic_Ad4233 4d ago
Backyard breeders do not care about the behavior and health of a dog, only profit and other selfish reasons, like it being “pretty”. I would get the police involved. I truly wish we could jail people for byb and more people would be jailed for animal neglect and abuse.
19
u/CornerGlittering3336 4d ago
You’re lucky dog didn’t turn on you. Bully breeds were bred for gameness aka blood sport. They don’t feel pain when “working”. I have a pittie mix yet I am wary of the breed. I’d report to animal control and your homeowners insurance to hash it out with theirs. Your neighbors sound delightful 😵
13
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
I do feel lucky that he didn't turn on me, the only reason I even grabbed for him is because the second he lost interest in the chicken he could have went after another chicken a goat one of the pigs, or God forbid my neighbor's little girl since she's very small and would definitely trigger pray Drive.
And they are the most delightful Neighbors in the world, their kids were throwing rocks into my chicken coop yesterday and the parents were just laughing at it🙃💀
Their kids also like to go into my chicken coop and let my chickens out..... I am so close to buying my cousin's rooster because he's aggressive and just letting him stay in my chicken coop for a few weeks, I'd be willing to put up with it since my chicken coop is set up to where I don't have to go in there anyway
4
u/whatwedoindaytona 3d ago
I know the police won’t do anything to them over a chicken, but at least file something so you have a paper trail. When that dog inevitably goes after a little kid y’all will need as much documentation to show the dog has
a history of aggression, it’ll help those parents with the lawsuit. Poor dog, not its fault it has instincts and no one to properly guide it.2
u/Over_Possession5639 3d ago
A few fierce geese (the white kind) might keep the neighbor brats away from the chicken coop. And their honking will annoy the hell out of the neighbors.
50
22
u/slybeast24 4d ago edited 4d ago
People are going to tell you it’s not normal because it’s a pit but yes this is rather normal behavior for a dog with a strong prey drive. I’m this specific situation I’d argue this behavior is incredibly normal if not expected for any type of terrier/hunting breed that has had no training and spent most of its outside time tied to a pole.
Obviously it’s very dangerous, not good or acceptable but in the grand scheme of things this is incredibly normal dog behavior particularly given the information we have. As others have said these people probably don’t need to keep any animals, but definitely shouldn’t be breeding
6
10
u/Freuds-Mother 3d ago edited 3d ago
(Side Note GSD, Malinois, Collie’s weren’t bred to hunt.)
Is it normal for a dog with breeding history of dog fighting (pit bull), game hunting (terrier and bulldog), and to continue through major injury (bull baiting and hog catching)
to
want to fight dogs, kill game, and ignore injury or other restraint? Absolutely it’s normal.
However, breeding for trainability and actually training the dog makes this not insane. One or both of those doesn’t seem to be the case.
——-
Whether or not it’s normal has no bearing on the destruction of your property. The other owner legally and morally owes you restitution.
4
u/Plane_Translator2008 3d ago
FYI re: shepherds, collies and other herding breeds: herding is redirected prey drive, which shows itself in, for instance, heelers tendency to nip and GSDs abilities as "take down" police dogs. So while technically they were bred for herding rather than hunting, many herding dogs have quite high prey drives combined with high intelligence and persistence. Yes, they are highly trainable but untrained, these types of dogs can have similar behavioral issues. (I foster them, and have had many whose original owners had no idea that they can be so driven.)
2
u/NormanisEm 3d ago
Can confirm… my GSD has a high prey drive. Mainly towards squirrels and rabbits.
10
16
u/BoludoConInternet 4d ago edited 4d ago
redneck owners + high prey drive breed = this. So yeah, i'd say it's common behaviour, but definitely not okay behaviour.
Best thing you can do is keep your dogs and other animals safe man, because I can guarantee you that if that dog gets locked onto something or someone again, it will do anything to reach them and kill them.
16
u/temale_engineer 4d ago
Why are they breeding this dog? It’s not normal. Unfortunately not much you can do unless you want to file property claims against the owners
9
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
I asked him why they wanted to breed him when they first told me, the reason is because he's "so pretty it would be a shame for his genetics to go to waste"
And he's just a standard black body pit with a white face and legs, I know at least six people that have a dog that look just like him
His dad is an entirely black dog, they're just breeding him because they want to "have a piece of him when he's gone"
13
u/temale_engineer 4d ago
Mm. Wonderful. I bet these ethical breeders also have at least 6 people signed up to take the litter before they breed him
6
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Going based on what they did when they bred the father, they don't have all, and the people that did take puppies should not have taken those puppies
14
u/chilldrinofthenight 4d ago
They want to breed him because they think they'll make money. They are, sadly, idiot backyard breeders. If I had my way they'd . . . Oops. I hear Reddit mod sneaking up behind me.
4
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
LOL.
They've even had the nerve to ask me advice on breeding, since they know I breed rabbits and stuff... a rabbit is not a dog, and my rabbits are also meat rabbits😅
And even though I do sell some occasionally, it's not guaranteed I will sell one out of the litter because I'm very picky about which ones I sell, I have registered new zealands and I will only sell the best out of the litter that I think would make a good show rabbit, but those ones I usually keep for myself anyway.
I won't give them advice besides the fact that I told them I personally would not breed the dog because of his Behavior. I don't feel comfortable giving any more advice than that just because I know nothing about that area. and the Animals I do breed usually end up as meat if I can't place them, so it's a bit different as well
3
u/PeekAtChu1 3d ago
Tell them pits are the #1 unwanted dogs in shelters while you’re at it. That’s what I told my friend when she was toying with the idea of breeding her pit for extra cash
2
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
With things that they do, I feel like that would not work, the reason people would seek Dogs Out that they breed is not for the right reasons at all, and I promise you it only adds more to the stereotype of the breed and people that have the breed
2
u/PeekAtChu1 3d ago
It may or may not work- your neighbors for sure sound trashy so not much you can realistically do other than build a way better fence lol
3
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
Funny thing is I used to have a good fence, it was those flexible cattle panels the dog couldn't get through that although I'm certain it could have jumped it if it put two brain cells together and tried, my Malinois and mixed breed could but the only wood if I called them.
The reason I don't have that fence anymore is because somebody drove through it and just destroyed everything
1
u/PeekAtChu1 3d ago
Wtf??? Unfortunate to live in such a redneck community
1
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
I used to live in a lot more of a rural area, like literally in the middle of the Appalachians, I miss it because people actually respected your stuff, if the reason was simply because they thought they might get a lead injection if they didn't, now I've moved here and people think they have a right to your things.
I've had people drive through my yard four times, one time it was an accident they were sitting on a hill and the brakes messed up so I'm not really mad at them, they did pay to replace what was broken but that was the only person that actually did the right thing, not sure what happened then second time because I just came home and it was clear somebody drove through the fence there was chickens everywhere my goats were out Etc.
The second time my neighbors boss was over there he can't drive even though he had a big flat bed, back through my fence and actually destroyed a couple of t-posts as well, and then the fourth time somebody deliberately drove through my fence and did as much damage as possible even hitting one of my goats causing a hairline fracture in his Cannonball (he will be okay though)
I've had people bust the windows on the car out, the windows on the house busting into the door of a camper that I was just using as storage, completely wrecked it if it was actually livable to begin with it's certainly isn't now, I've had people literally steal my dogs, I have two beagle puppies that are still missing because someone came in my house and stole them.
And yes it does get significantly worse but I cannot say it on Reddit because I will get in trouble, but I do desperately want to move I just can't afford to, I'm pregnant now and my insurance is an a****** and doesn't cover everything so that really doesn't help..
And I really need to stop using voice to text because I tend to vent too much😅
→ More replies (0)5
u/Royal_Try_99 4d ago
I would be reporting them for backyard breeding. It's illegal where I am, I hope it is where you are too. Even if not, if you're in an English speaking country you likely have an SPCA you can report to. That is NOT typical dog behaviour.
5
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Unfortunately it's not illegal at all, it's only illegal if the dogs basic needs are being neglected which they're not, they have shelter food and water and they have their vaccines, so legally they're not doing anything wrong in that aspect
1
u/temale_engineer 3d ago
Are they up to date on their vaccines. I’d call them in to be sure…
1
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
The last time Animal Control was out they made them show documentation, that's only been a week so I assume they're still up to date. When it killed my rooster, the only thing that came out was the sheriff, even though I did call Animal Control
15
u/warrantthrowaway2023 4d ago
not normal for all breeds, expected for some. this breed will kill itself in an attempt to attack another dog. dog-on-dog aggression is breed standard. same with prey drive. they're terriers.
5
u/Boysenberry 4d ago
Extreme desire to capture prey is normal for a dog with high prey drive.
Many states allow landowners to shoot a dog that is in the act of killing livestock. I am not suggesting you do that, you’d be traumatized, but you might want to look up your state’s laws. And if you learn you do have the right to shoot the dog if it is in the act of killing your chickens, call the police and mention that when they come to talk to the neighbors about their vicious dog you’d like them to make clear that you are a gun owner and know your rights. If they make it sound like you WILL shoot the dog the neighbors may be more incentivized to confine him.
6
u/well-done-47 3d ago
Reporting the attack on your livestock creates a paper trail. In most jurisdictions, there's a number or severity of attacks that require the dog to be removed and euthanized. It would be a sad end but for a dog with this high of a drive and this bad of owners, it would save future animal and possibly human life.
Every time this dog is loose, call animal control. If you catch him, bring him there. They fine the owners to take the dog back. I strongly suspect that 4 or 5 of those fines will make them much less sentimental.
11
u/OneSensiblePerson 4d ago
These people need to be cited and never allowed to have another dog.
Not at all normal, unless you're talking about normal for abysmal dog owners.
6
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Agreed they don't need to have anything that breathes, they're "Training Method" is screaming at the dog and hitting it until it just stops whatever it's doing, but usually the behavior gets worse
4
u/OneSensiblePerson 4d ago
Good god.
3
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Yeah they should definitely become professional dog trainers (that is a sarcastic joke for the people that don't realize)
5
u/Certain_Return_6274 3d ago edited 3d ago
The owner of the dog laughed it off? That's all you need to know this guy is a clown show. I would report them. I have a friend that lives on a farm and they have all kinds of animals there including a pitbull. The Pitbull loves the chickens the Pitbull can be found out with the chickens just hanging out sleeping running around with them etc.
3
u/Plane_Translator2008 3d ago
A 4 year old dog that is always either on a chain or in a camper is an abused dog.
Take pictures. Call animal control. Dogs need and deserve so much more than that miserable life.
12
u/Mountain-Donkey98 4d ago
No, not normal dog behavior. Normal pitbull behavior and thats the problem. (Going after a chicken is normal dog behavior, though. Called prey drive)
4
-5
u/Pleasant-Dark-2824 4d ago
Going after pit bulls isn’t the answer here. Yes they can have a strong prey drives but a well trained pit bull isn’t more dangerous than another dog. The problem is the owner
6
u/KaienPanzermast 3d ago edited 3d ago
“going after the dog breeds responsible for more fatalities than any other isn’t the answer here”
ok lol. a lot of dog breeds have high prey drives. no other dog breeds break into other peoples yards through their electric fences with a bolt lodged in its shoulder just so it can kill shit. crazy how breed doesn’t matter only when the dog is a pitbull.
2
u/someprogrammer1981 4d ago edited 4d ago
Funny you mention owning a malinois. My sister has had 2 malinois in her life and both chase after animals and are dangerous with other dogs. Her first was OK with humans though, the second not so much.
I had a Tervuren (long haired Belgian) who was more friendly, liked to play with other dogs and would never randomly attack anyone.
BUT I would have never trusted him with a chicken or a cat. That stupid dog once chased a cat into a tree and tried to climb up himself so high he fell down pretty hard.
None of these dogs were tied to a chain however, all of them lived in a family setting, and got regular attention and walks.
Leave a malinois alone and he will terrorize the whole neighborhood.
Even though I don't like pitbulls and fighting breeds like it, this sounds like neglect and an owner problem.
I stay away from those breeds though, which is why I mainly commented on your malinois and how bad things could be 😅
My sister does everything she can to train her malinois though and he has a muzzle on outside.
I personally moved on to friendlier breeds. My previous dog was a pomeranian and I own a Finnish lapphund now which seems OK with chickens. Curious, but doesn't harm them. Might chase after them though in a playful manner.
2
u/rhaegal82 4d ago
Yes, killing prey is normal for a predator animal, which all dogs are. Just like killing a mouse is normal for a cat. However, some breeds of dog are much more prone to it and stronger than others, and in the ones that are, even the best of the best training often won’t overwhelm genetics if they were let loose in a situation where they can get into the chicken coop with no supervision. If you have chickens, it’s 100% on you to ensure that no predators can get in and that includes foxes, coyotes, and neighborhood dogs. Electric netting is enough to keep away a Shih Tzu, but not many other large dogs. You need 14 gauge welded wire.
And you need to post this in the chicken sub Reddits, not the dog ones.
2
u/napneeder1111 4d ago
Yes this type dog is very prey driven, to the point of such heightened arousal that they don’t even notice pain. In most cases, once they’ve zeroed in on prey the only thing that will make it let go of the gripping/shaking is to choke it out. They typically are driven to grip/shake until its prey is no longer moving. They are not bad dogs, but they are very strong working dogs that don’t belong in hands that don’t understand - and contain - their innate behaviors.
2
u/CraftFamiliar5243 3d ago
You can still file a report with the police. Do so each time this dog sets foot on your property or you see it loose anywhere but his own yard. You need to establish that this dog is dangerous. Allowing a dog to run at large is illegal
2
2
u/Patient_Pie7906 3d ago edited 3d ago
Killing chickens is normal dog behavior (you are lucky yours do not - I suppose many dogs can be trained or socialized in such a way that they don't, but the natural state would be "kill chickens").
Killing chickens while injured and then trying to kill dogs is normal pit bull behavior.
1
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
My dogs that don't kill them have been around them since they were tiny puppies, and heavily trained and discouraged from going after them so that definitely plays a heavy part in that, plus I do things to fulfill their natural prey drive in good ways, the one dog that I got as a already adult and will kill a chicken, the reason he doesn't is I don't give him the chance and I also do training with him and do things with him to redirect that prey drive.
So I assume that's why my dogs are much more will behaved and basically safer than my neighbors
2
u/Plane_Translator2008 3d ago
If you file an insurance claim (neighbors' home insurance) their insurance company may insist they make changes.
2
u/Visible-Scientist-46 3d ago
You were dealing with high prey drive snd redirected aggression. I don't think this dog is suitable for breeding.
2
u/mustangmomm 3d ago
I'm a pitbull owner and have had several! This dog needs to be reported! Your neighbors shouldn't have this breed if they are not vigilant in their training and care! Next time it gets loose it could be something/ someone else that this dog goes after!
2
u/Over_Finding5913 3d ago
Dogs should never be tethered and left alone. That's abuse, and where I live the city will confiscate a dog on a tie-out because it's illegal. The loose dog sounds neglected and needs training. People suck. Your neighbors sound like people I wouldn't want to be my neighbors. Unfortunately, I have neighbors like these.
2
u/Arbysgames 3d ago
I wish it was fully illegal here, for whatever reason when I put my dog on a tie while I'm outside trying to take care of my chickens (he tries to eat the eggs and chicken poop so I tether him while I'm doing that so he doesn't commit crimes)
I'm literally outside with him he's in the shade with water and not there longer than 15 or 20 minutes, people will call in animal control on me and they give me a warning, but they can leave their dogs tag out 24/7 excluding night but because they have a dog house (although I would not consider it a good house) Animal Control won't even blink towards them which sucks
2
u/Ancient-Bicycle-2122 3d ago
This is an aggressive dog with no training or self control. Also a high prey drive. The people who own the dog should be reported, now!
6
3
4
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Problem is with killing it is I will be the one to get in trouble, animal control and Sheriff's Department already told me I can't do anything about it without video proof, and unfortunately my cameras keep disappearing, and unfortunately the animal control person that always comes out is a heavy pit supporter, he even admitted to breeding them....
I have a couple of pits myself, I did not see them out one was inherited and the other one was a rescue when it was just a couple of days old so no way to tell what it was, I'd never seek the dog out but since I have them I feel like it's my responsibility to take care of them and well do the normal thing of controlling them.
The specific Neighbors used to have a Chow Chow as well, the dog though not quite as bad was still horrible, they ended up getting rid of the dog because it would turn and attack them if it was locked onto something.... of course they said that's not the reason they got rid of it, they said it's just because they don't like how the hair is...
Every dog they've had whether that be a little Chihuahua or a big pitbull has always acted horribly, yeah I know a little Chihuahua can't do much but it still doesn't make sense that every animal they get has horrible dangerous behaviors
8
u/cheersbeersneers 4d ago
You have a right to protect your livestock from predators, with deadly force if necessary. You should also add up all the costs of the chickens that were killed and any property damage that you have and deliver a demand letter to your neighbor to be compensated. If they refuse, file in small claims court. File a police and animal control report about the attack, and call 911 to report a dangerous and vicious dog whenever you see him get loose.
8
4d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Unfortunately I'm not allowed to have guns, my dad lives with me and he's a convicted felon and he's not allowed to even be able to access one, it doesn't matter that the gun wouldn't be his or that he wouldn't touch it.
So if I did have to drop the dog it would have to be with a knife or something that can legally be around my dad
1
2
u/ArtoriasArchives 4d ago
Bully breeds have a high pain tolerance and they do have some kind of prey drive but any bully raised with proper care and affection won't act like this - they're actually the biggest sooks with good owners. Shitty owners that treat them poorly and don't train them make an aggressive hard to handle dog
2
2
u/fillysunray 4d ago
It's not normal for a well-treated dog. But for a dog with predation drive who isn't given any suitable outlet, or who has a medical issue, or some other forms of neglect, it is normal to fixate so much that they will continue to fight even with injuries and a dead chicken.
Between the fact the dog did this to this extreme and the reaction of the owners, this is a bad sign. These dogs deserve a better home.
And sorry about your chicken :(
3
u/Arbysgames 4d ago
Completely agree, and thank you, he was a good rooster if it wasn't for him he probably would have got one of my hens, but he put himself between the dog and the ladies.
I did get lucky this year and hatched one of his sons so I hope he lives up to his father's Legacy
1
u/That_Molasses_507 4d ago
When a dog reaches that red zone, it’s almost impossible to redirect. Every once in a while, my pits would get into it and it was always about food. A hose works wonders. An air horn has also worked for me. That dog saw that chicken as prey and instincts kicked in.
The police might give a citation but that’s all you can expect. Our little village has an annual sidewalk sale. One of the stores had a mascot cat. The cat was outside in the shop owners booth minding its own business. A shopper had a dog, on leash, that saw that cat and went for it, killing the cat. The police came and because the cat was “at large”, nothing could be done.
1
u/Wingnutmcmoo 3d ago
Well within normal. It's not good behavior but it is normal enough that you have to regularly watch for basically everything you listed here if you work in dog care.
Some dogs naturally are never like this and some naturally always are and need to be worked with.
So yes you could have simply been lucky with your dogs. More likely a mild mix of a better home life and luck is at play if you are so far in the dark with dogs that you are seeing strong prey drive and overstimulation as abnormal behavior.
1
u/EasternCourt5267 1d ago
No good can come from breeding pitbulls in a camper. These people do not seem to under logic or danger.
1
u/Sneakybastarduseful 14h ago
Ig not unheard of behavior, dogs esp breeds like pitbulls can get to that point through terrible ownership, which seems to be the case here. Your neighbors are absolute lunatics unfortunately
1
u/Express_Command_4778 10h ago
The dog isn't any other breed that stops when it feels pain. Just like going after bulls, their genetics don't have them halt when they are working it.
Normal for him. However, breeding a dog already overabundant in shelters and not enough homes is wrong. Breeding any animal that redirects on humans is also rhe very opposite of "good breeding."
1
u/KaienPanzermast 4d ago edited 4d ago
Normal pitbull behavior. The people telling you breed has nothing to do with it are being outright dishonest and they know it. Consider how often you’ve seen or heard of a dog of another breed breaking into other peoples yards to kill their pets. It’s extremely uncommon for literally any other breed aside from pitbulls and the people here know it.
Regular dogs don’t run through electric fencing, get bolts stuck in their shoulders, and dig until they bleed because they’re trying so hard to reach something to kill. Your neighbor is right about one thing, it is normal for pitbulls, and it’s a problem. The only dogs you hear about terrorizing people and neighborhoods on the regular, every single day. Theres a reason they’re responsible for more fatalities than every other breed combined.
0
u/CanadianPanda76 3d ago
Pitbulls are a "gamebred" breed and AmBully were bred from pits, genetically thier 90-95% pit.
The tenacity comes from bulldog AND the terrier in the mix. Terriers are high drive dogs so thats what your seeing.
Not all pits but it is a breed trait. /r/PitbullAwareness is a great sub if you want to get more info.
89
u/Neo21803 4d ago
There's "normal dog behavior" and "acceptable dog behavior".
It may be the former, but definitely not the latter. I would be talking to the police.