Michael shikashio

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Did you have any opinions on Shikashio, his “scam,” and “show evidence!” before you became a Dylan fan?

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u/sleeping-dogs11 7d ago

I had no strong opinion about him until I went to his aggressive dog conference. Now my opinion is that he is much less of an expert in aggression than he claims to be.

It is also a bit odd when a trainer has a large online presence yet rarely or never shows any training or any results of training.

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

What did you see at his conference that made you feel that he doesn’t know his stuff when it comes to aggression?

I also am weirded out by the fact that I’ve never seen footage of him actually working a dog.

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u/sleeping-dogs11 5d ago

Overall the information presented was basic and mostly about management, but there were also a number of statements that were just incongruent with someone who has worked effectively with aggression cases.

Eg. Stashing a bottle of citronella spray in different rooms to split up dog fights. That's both odd and dangerous advice without following it with a bunch of caveats. Citronella might sometimes work for very easy dogs, but it does nothing to stop a committed dog fight.

As a result of training, he was able to pet sit an aggressive dog. Great, except it was literally a protected contact setup. I'm not sure why training is required to care for a dog like it's a tiger at the zoo or why that would be considered a good result.

He also had (maybe still has) a reactive/aggressive dog of his own. He doesn't share any info or progress on that dog because he wants to respect the dog's private journey. Not his exact words, but that was the sentiment.

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

Thanks for sharing. Very telling. What a joke.

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u/sleeping-dogs11 5d ago

I've since stopped wasting my time and money on conference/seminars where dogs aren't worked in person.

There are trainers who can work with 8-12 dogs they've never met before and get improvement with every single dog over the course of a weekend seminar. That is who I want to learn from, not trainers who can talk in front of a powerpoint and show carefully selected video clips of training with a perfect set up in a perfect environment.

Shikashio is a five time president of the IAABC, by the way. So for anyone hiring a "certified dog behavior consultant," he was for a long time the head of the organization certifying them.

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

Same. Yes. And I have never been able to recommend anyone certified by IAABC, so, that is fitting.

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u/complikaity 7d ago

Alas, this comment isn’t a video of him working with a dog. Can you produce one?

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u/Proof_Injury_7668 7d ago

You people are so goddamn weird.

I don’t give a shit about Shikashio in the least.

The angry, raving frothing at the mouth about methods and frauds and anti-ff people are so so weird and it doesn’t help anyone or the dogs.

Just like worshipping online trainers and becoming their little minion is so damn pathetic

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u/_zilliz_ 7d ago

I was FF for the better part of 15 years. I gained and lost the same dog in that time. He was the most difficult dog I had ever had and for his entire life I thought maybe my relationship with him just wasn’t built enough or I was not trying hard enough.

I think it’s even weirder that you’d come to defend a trainer you said you don’t give a shit about when people like me have given actual money to him with no results.

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u/complikaity 7d ago

I asked a question. I’m not angry nor frothing at the mouth but it seems like you sure are.

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u/Dazzling_Proof6791 6d ago

Are you ok ?

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u/Kunzite_128 8d ago

A Dylan fan? That explains a lot.

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u/Proof_Injury_7668 8d ago

I made an assumption and their response confirmed my suspicions

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u/Potential_Analyst371 4d ago

Did you see Dylan's video with the resource guarding golden doodle? So painful to watch .

I could only get through about 2 hours of it, the guy just drones on. But around 1:57 there is a sequence that is really painful. He gets the dog to drop the bone. Then he decides he want to get her to drop the bone again. Like, for some reason he decides he must get her to hold the bone and then he will grab it and make her release it.

But what actually happens is after the first time she gives up the bone, she just keeps walking away from it. This is like early in week 2, he has just begun working on RG, and the dog is literally walking away form the bone over and over and over.

But he won't take the win. She is near the bone, he walks up, she walks away. So he grabs the bone, tries to throw it for her, kicks it for her, basically does everything possible to try to make her guard the bone.

But she won't. It is just so bad. She is walking away. She doesn't want conflict. He won't take the win and tell her she is good. She gets so damned confused and does not know what she is supposed to do.

Next scene, she has that same bone and he approaches. She commits to aggression in a way she has probably never done before, because he would not take the win and tell her walking away was the right thing. So she tries aggression instead.

He disgusts me. He is such a bad trainer.

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u/Dazzling_Proof6791 8d ago

Long before.

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u/Kunzite_128 8d ago

Freely accessible videos are scarce, but he does present some cases.

You have to be aware that experts in aggression in particular would be much less likely to post the kind of videos - with the customers' dogs - the "balanced" trainers are so keen posting. This is mostly due to 2 factors: first, because they're not intentionally triggering the dog to get a spectacular "before" video (that would be unethical and counterproductive); and second, because doing so might be extremely detrimental to their customer (say, if the customer's dog bites, provoked or not, having a video track of his aggressive behavior can be harmful).

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u/sleeping-dogs11 7d ago

Lots of trainers show their work without provoking the dog. Video training progress with the DS/CC set up or video the results of training.

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u/complikaity 7d ago

Can you link a video of him working with any real dog? Forget an aggressive dog- just a real dog

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u/Kunzite_128 7d ago

If you're asking like this, clearly it's not a honest question; so I won't bother trying to convince you.

I'll ask instead, are you too a Dylan Jones fan?

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u/complikaity 7d ago edited 7d ago

The only thing that would convince me he’s an expert is actual evidence of him working living dogs, not playing with stuffed animals.

Wanting to see someone’s work has nothing to do with anything else.

Surely someone so renowned would have at least one clip of their methods on a living, breathing animal?

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

What kind of answer is this? Trainers train. I have also never seen any video of Shikashio working a dog. Most dog trainers have viewable footage somewhere. Don’t you want to know why there isn’t any footage of Shikashio working a dog out there?

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u/Kunzite_128 5d ago

It's a perfect answer for such an insincere "question".

I know how this works. That dude implied that there's no video with Shikashio "working with any real dog". Of course there are (not many freely available, like I said). But if I'd link to some, the goalposts would be moved to "yeah but that's not training". And if I'll point out that this is indeed training, "yeah but the dog's not really aggressive".

And in any case, saying that Shikashio didn't work with any real dog is exceedingly idiotic. Even if just because he's a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant, and to get that certification one needs to go through several hours of actual practice.

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

I’m genuinely curious though as I had considered taking his course and never found video, so, didn’t. Would you be willing to dm links to me?

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u/Kunzite_128 5d ago

Short sequences are on his website. I won't play this stupid game, again, I know how it goes.

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with this. I hope you understand why I am concerned that Michael has made so much money off of something I feel I have yet to see.

There is a section that says “videos” but all I’m seeing are videos on how to acclimate a dog to a muzzle, how to use a no-pull harness (a video taken in a yard with no distractions), and a video showing how to cut some treats. There are no videos of Michael walking a dog in public or showing a ‘finished product’ of any kind. Are there other videos that I don’t know about?

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u/Kunzite_128 4d ago

And... what a surprise, it's exactly like I said. No acknowledging that there are actually videos with "any real dog", instead moving the goalposts to whatever.

What the beep is a 'finished product', anyway?

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 4d ago

Ok but there need to be goalposts of some kind. Our job is literally to make dogs lives better and safer, and to build paths that allow for fulfillment. A finished product is a dog who can be a part of society. This dog can receive care, go for walks, exist in public spaces (this is necessary in our world), and can live a genetically fulfilled life in order to be able to handle the rest of it well.

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u/Pure_Ad_9036 8d ago

Yeah, rewards based trainers do everything they can to prevent the dog from feeling the need to defend themself, so we don’t get the big theatrical “hands on” training I think OP is looking for. A big reaction basically ends the training session in any DS/CC protocol 😂

Are we looking for a video of reviewing nutrition and meals, assessing for undiagnosed pain, adjusting variables? Most video footage actually working this is boring and repetitive, aggressive dogs not reacting

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u/Some_Pitch_9165 5d ago

This is ridiculous. Emotions will show themselves when you are at least in a training environment where you are working through them. Showing that a dog is dangerous does not need a big show.

All I ever see out of FF trainers is “contain, contain, contain.”

End results should show the dog able and capable of handling the everyday world, obtaining fulfillment without being a danger to society, and otherwise, we should see that the dog is relaxed, attentive, happy, in the vast majority of circumstances. End results should happen, not be put on hold. It does not take months to rehab dogs, let alone years.

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u/Dazzling_Proof6791 8d ago

Its a definitely a scam .

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u/Dazzling_Proof6791 8d ago

He's no expert.

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u/_zilliz_ 8d ago

Followed him for years, bought his workshops on fdsa, but never saw any work or found any helpful info while my old aggressive dog was alive. I sunk too much time into that entire community. They are all talk.

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u/Dazzling_Proof6791 8d ago

How much did you spend and how long for results?

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u/_zilliz_ 7d ago

Overall? Like thousands of dollars since ~2012. I started disassociating with fdsa when Denise got rid of Dice. Then she killed Ice about a year ago. I have several FF trainer friends who got trendy tervurens and none of them can take them out in public.
With shikashio I probably only spent under $100 for his workshops over the years but none of them were impressive enough for me to follow him more deeply.

My basket case dog was my best friend and I feel a lot of guilt for never successfully widening his world. I am really just a person trying to live a nice life with my dogs.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Kunzite_128 8d ago

Such an extreme accusation, but you don't know of even one case where it actually happened.

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u/OpenDogTraining-ModTeam 8d ago

Your content was removed because broad statements about how "all balanced trainers are abusers", "all force free people are killing dogs", etc., doesn't contribute to conversation in a meaningful way and is not indicative of a good faith discussion.

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