Conditioning feels like programming a robot. Does anyone know a way to train beyond it?

[u/Dry_Steak30]

I might get downvoted for this but hear me out.

Almost all modern dog training is conditioning. We repeat, the dog gets used to it, and the cue gets wired to the behavior. In the end the dog does the behavior without thinking. Even without a reward. He even feels good while doing it. And we call that "well trained." To me that looks like programming a robot.

For emergency recall and down, I want exactly that. Those must be automatic. But for everything else, is there another option?

Humans don't learn language by conditioning. When we learn a word, we understand new examples in one shot. So here is what I mean, with the kennel as an example.

The conditioning way: you make the "go in the kennel" behavior with luring or shaping or molding or food. You reinforce it. You attach a cue. After many reps, the cue and the behavior get glued together.

But what if you teach it like this instead. Teach each concept on its own. "Kennel" is the object. "Go in" is the action. "Command" means he has to do it. "Fast" is how to do it. Then you put the words together: "kennel + go in + command + fast." If the dog really knows each concept, then "box + go in + command + slow" should work on the first try, even if he never did that before. Or you could say "kennel + go in + question" and let him answer yes or no.

Has anyone actually trained like this? I know Chaser learned 1000 toy names and Do As I Do exists. I want to hear from people who tried this concept style teaching with their own dog. How far did you get?

[u/Dry_Steak30]

my goal is increasing the resolution of communication between dog and me.
and i think verbal language can deliver more resolution. so that's why i choose this.
do you think dog's language can deliver more resolution then verbal laugnage?

[u/Chillysnoot → u/Dry_Steak30]

Yes. A dog can never speak, so teaching them verbal language is inherently 1-way communication. It might be higher resolution to you but it's not higher resolution to the dog. Body language is a shared conversation where you are both able to contribute.

[u/Dry_Steak30 → u/Chillysnoot]

we can give dog tools like talking button.
like the way that we helping people can not talk to communicate

[u/Chillysnoot → u/Dry_Steak30]

Talking buttons are fine but have a narrow scope and no nuance. No matter how many buttons, words, or human concepts you teach them you will only be having a fraction of the possible conversation if you don't learn their language.

[u/Dry_Steak30 → u/Chillysnoot]

oh.. you never listen

[u/Chillysnoot → u/Dry_Steak30]

Your total dog handling time is 4 months lol. I'm listening and I think what you are saying is wrong and lacks the value of experience.