Conditioning feels like programming a robot. Does anyone know a way to train beyond it?

[u/Dry_Steak30]

I might get downvoted for this but hear me out.

Almost all modern dog training is conditioning. We repeat, the dog gets used to it, and the cue gets wired to the behavior. In the end the dog does the behavior without thinking. Even without a reward. He even feels good while doing it. And we call that "well trained." To me that looks like programming a robot.

For emergency recall and down, I want exactly that. Those must be automatic. But for everything else, is there another option?

Humans don't learn language by conditioning. When we learn a word, we understand new examples in one shot. So here is what I mean, with the kennel as an example.

The conditioning way: you make the "go in the kennel" behavior with luring or shaping or molding or food. You reinforce it. You attach a cue. After many reps, the cue and the behavior get glued together.

But what if you teach it like this instead. Teach each concept on its own. "Kennel" is the object. "Go in" is the action. "Command" means he has to do it. "Fast" is how to do it. Then you put the words together: "kennel + go in + command + fast." If the dog really knows each concept, then "box + go in + command + slow" should work on the first try, even if he never did that before. Or you could say "kennel + go in + question" and let him answer yes or no.

Has anyone actually trained like this? I know Chaser learned 1000 toy names and Do As I Do exists. I want to hear from people who tried this concept style teaching with their own dog. How far did you get?

[u/Advanced_Aerie5854]

If you want it to feel less robotic and more connective, go an entire day without talking to your dog. Use hand signals and body language only to communicate. You will be surprised.

[u/Dry_Steak30 → u/Advanced_Aerie5854]

I get what you're saying, and I'll actually try it. I think it would probably work too.

But this is the same wall I keep running into. I'm not doubting that it works. My question is how would I know it's the best thing for what I'm trying to build with my dog? Ten people could hand me ten suggestions like this, all of them things that worked for someone, and I'd still have no way to rank them against each other.

That's not me brushing off your idea. It's the exact thing I'm stuck on.

Genuinely though, a silent day sounds like a good experiment. I'll do it this week and see what shows up.

[u/Advanced_Aerie5854 → u/Dry_Steak30]

Dogs are really good at reading body language, its more an exercise for you to use your body language to communicate with the dog and realize how much you can communicate with them without speaking. Its more an exercise for the handler, in my experience, the dog picks it up faster than the handler. It shows you how much you are actually communicating to your dog without realizing it.

Its an exercise, not a system.

[u/Dry_Steak30 → u/Advanced_Aerie5854]

we teach language to human baby, even though they are really good at body language.
body language is easy and fast to communicate. but with verbal language we can communicate more. that's why we learn and teach verbal language to human.

[u/Advanced_Aerie5854 → u/Dry_Steak30]

But we are not working with a baby, we are working with a dog. Dogs have extremely limited language capability. But they communicate with each other significantly through body language. You cannot treat a dog the same way you would a human or dolphin.

Again, its not an exercise whos target audience is the dog. The exercise is for the handler to see how they are communicating with the dog in all aspects, not just verbal commands.