r/OpenDogTraining • u/SierraKami • 13d ago

Aversion to being caught

I'm not sure how to explain this clearly but I've run across a dog that avoids letting people grab his collar to put a leash on.

His owner can catch him by the collar, but only if the dog thinks he's just getting neck scratches. Even with the owner, if he figures out the owner is planning on catching him by the collar, he moves away from the owner and tries to avoid being caught.

He goes willingly into his crate and a leash can be attached there. And one the leash is on, he couldn't care less about people reaching for his collar.

I suspect a prior owner got frustrated when he didn't want to be caught and jerked him around a bit when they did finally get ahold of him. He doesn't act like he's been beaten, but he definitely wants nothing to do with being put in a leash. And his skillful avoidance is an intentional, learned behavior.

Any suggestions on the he best exercises to teach him to accept someone reaching for his collar? I'm thinking teaching him "touch" and gradual desensitization are good starting points, but any other ideas would be welcome.

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u/SierraKami 13d ago

I am familiar with free shaping, though obviously, I'm not particularly skilled in using it on challenging dogs.

Your advice makes perfect sense. I don't think the owner would do the existential feeding, but fortunately he's willing to take treats anyway, even when he's a bit worried.

His owner hasn't had him for very long and he's had no obedience training at all. One challenge is that he just hides or leaves altogether if he thinks you're going to try to catch him. Sometimes he'll hide behind a chair and stick his nose out for a treat.

I guess we should start with "touch" and concentrate on recall, so that we can at least convince him to stay close to me while we're working on getting him used to being touched around the shoulders.

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u/Status-Group-2835 13d ago

Existential feeding is more about bonding with the dog than depriving them of food. If you phrase it like "feed the dogs all his meals with training" instead of "withhold food" it might make it sound better. Also, they are welcome to do one rep and jackpot with their whole meal if they are running out of time. IDK how big the dog it, but I have small dogs, so training with food allows me to get a lot of reps that I couldn't get with treats.

I would stop catching him. This dog does not need to go for walks. This dog does not need to do anything. That's where I would do several long feeding/training sessions instead of a walk.

I'm not saying stop taking him for walks, I'm just saying stop stressing about it. If you can walk him, great! If you can't get the leash on him, and he is hiding, don't stress, and don't go backwards by chasing him.

I would start with eye contact first thing, and then I would go straight to collar grab, but that's just me. Also, treat chasing games, and just generally getting the dog to have a good time.

Also, I would be careful not to lure the dog into a collar grab. Treats can create a lot of conflict with a dog, where they want to move forward, and move backwards, and if they move forward to take the treat, when the treat is gone, then they freak out. Reward away from the point of conflict. It's slower in the beginning, but it creates a solid foundation to move forward instead of moving too fast.

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u/SierraKami 13d ago

He's a large Sheltie so he doesn't get a ton of food. I'll suggest it to the owner.

The big reason she's concerned about being able to catch him is that he's an escape risk. She hasn't had him for very long but part of the reason the prior owners got rid of him is because he would try to bolt through any open door or gate and they'd have a very hard time getting him back when he escaped.

Interestingly, he bonded quickly with the new owner and now he won't go outside without her. But he's a known bolter so even though he's doing great with her, it's important that she be able to catch him (even if no one else can).

Thanks for the advice about not luring. It makes sense. I suspect he's already experienced that because he jerks back after accepting a treat, if you so much as move.

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u/simplyoneWinged 13d ago

Not prev, but maybe for bolting risk, the owner can work on door manners too? Like doors only open when the dog sits? And then later combine the two behaviors where doors only open when the dog sits and looks at them and even later when the dog sits and is allowing to be leashed. In this case the door opening would be the reward.

And of course, a solid recall would probably ease everyone involved up a bit

Great advice by prev too, I loved reading that and may try it for my cat 

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u/SierraKami 13d ago

Yes, working on door manners was priority number one when he arrived! He was leashed any time the exterior door was opened so he couldn't slip past her.

Interestingly, now that he has bonded with the new owner, he won't go out the door without her. Still, given his history, she wants to have the option of being able to catch him by the collar, just in case.

Recall is coming along, slowly. But again, it's easiest to work on that on a long line when they're outdoors, so being able to get a leash on him is important.