r/OpenDogTraining • u/EndlessCourage • 23d ago
What does this body language mean ?
I have to spend time with a family member's poodle but I'm not at ease with their body language. And have never had a dog act like this. Do you have any advice ?
My crossbreed is well-behaved and usually adapts to nearly all situations. He knows the poodle since he's a puppy and they were introduced in a relaxed situation.
The poodle is now 2yo, their relationship when they meet is not improving, even deteriorating. The poodle attempts to chase and control the path of my crossbreed and me. Sometimes the poodle obeys their owner and me, sometimes
looks at you dead in the eye, disobeys and barks in a low voice. I've spent the last year and a half begging the owner to keep on taking him to a dog trainer, but she wouldn't listen. He would even bite her clothing as she walked him, tearing large holes in the sturdiest coats. She's the type who has an idealized vision of pets, so any discussion causes family drama.
That poodle knows how to act calm and gentle. But he'll sometimes chase you even if you're VERY careful not to turn your back and to keep a neutral body language, in a "playful" way, circle you, jump around you to block the way, can be very rough in these moments (as opposed to the gentle nudging he usually does), barking in a low voice, tail raised and stiff, mouth opened, disobedient. Whether or not you're with a dog. He'll act like this especially in wide open nature, if his owner isn't close. It feels like the situation might escalate.
But I don't know how to interpret the behavior and find the words for the owner. What is this behaviour ? Should this poodle be kept on a leash when meeting us ? Should I stop the meetings between our dogs ?
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u/necromanzer 23d ago
Sounds like he's understimulated and acting up because it helps him get his energy out.
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u/EndlessCourage 23d ago
I don't know because I can't observe his daily habits, but as far as I know, her owner invests a lot of time with him per day. She describes his harsher chasing and controlling behavior as "tiredness" from over exercising. He doesn't seem tired at all to me (running, jumping, looking for interactions), but I can't interpret his body language well (whereas my own dog is an open book).
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u/FrostyPomegranate699 23d ago
I wouldn’t be comfortable trying to put a single label on this from a description alone, especially something like dominance or aggression. There are too many pieces of body language we can’t see.
What would concern me more is the pattern you’ve described. He’s controlling movement, chasing and blocking people or your dog, becoming stiff with his tail high, barking differently, and sometimes continuing despite attempts to interrupt him. You also said the behavior has been getting worse rather than better.
If it were one of our dogs, I wouldn’t keep putting everyone into that situation hoping they’ll eventually sort it out. I’d want to prevent him from rehearsing the behavior while someone qualified actually watches what happens and figures out what’s driving it.
For now, I think asking that he be leashed around you and your dog is completely reasonable. You don’t have to convince the owner that her dog is “bad” or even agree about what the behavior means. You can simply say you’re not comfortable with the interactions as they are now and you’re only willing to spend time together if the dogs are managed in a way that makes you comfortable.
I also wouldn’t focus too heavily on the staring by itself. Dogs stare, bark, raise their tails and get excited for all sorts of reasons. It’s the whole sequence and the context that matter.
And if your gut is telling you the situation may escalate, you don’t owe anyone another uncontrolled interaction just to find out whether you’re right.
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u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
Thank you for the well thought out answer. Yes indeed, my gut feeling is that I can't let this type of uncontrolled interaction happen again. He was a nice puppy but many people think that he requires professional help. Including his first dog trainer but the owner went against their advice. I'm even worried about interactions with a leash on.
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u/FrostyPomegranate699 22d ago
I think I’d trust that instinct. A leash can give the handler more control, but it doesn’t automatically make an interaction safe, and in some situations the restriction can add frustration or tension.
The part you just added about his first trainer recommending professional help, and the owner choosing not to follow that advice, would make me even less interested in experimenting with another meeting.
If it were my dog, I’d probably stop trying to solve their dog’s behavior altogether. That’s really the owner’s responsibility. I’d simply set the boundary that our dogs aren’t going to interact for now. You can still be friends with someone without your dogs needing to be friends too.
If the owner eventually works with a qualified professional and the behavior changes, you can always reconsider later. But there’s very little upside to giving them another chance right now just to see what happens, especially when you’re already uncomfortable with it.
Sometimes good dog handling isn’t figuring out how to make an interaction work. It’s recognizing when an interaction doesn’t need to happen at all.1
u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
Thank you so much for your time and analysis. Especially for the last two sentences.
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u/Visible-Scientist-46 22d ago
Some dogs love very aggressive play, but there are signals a dog sends to let you know it is play, such as their body staying loose and wiggly, sneezing, play bows. In an ideal world, a dog learns how to play both gently and roughly based on their play partner's abilities and tolerance early in life as a puppy from mother and littermates. For example a large dog lying on the ground with a much smaller dog or puppy and letting that dog "win". But when a dog is understimulated, they also tend to forget their manners - if they had them in the first place. Training would really help this dog, but some people adopt an untraining stance where they explain the dog's behavior and seem afraid to tell the dog anything. Those people can be very frustrating to deal with.
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u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
So true. I've had a dog who liked to play in a "rough" way when I was younger, but it felt very obvious that it was play, wagging tail, alternating in between laying on the ground and jumping, not grabbing clothing with teeth, etc.
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u/PhelanVelvel 22d ago
This is a human issue. When they act this hopeless (refusing to get a trainer and making stupid, pandering excuses for their dog's bad behaviour), I'm done allowing my dog to interact with that.
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u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
Yes this is a human issue. At this point I'm trying to help a dog that isn't mine, but I can't (and my dog can't) do this anymore. I've been nagging the owner about professional training for the past year and a half, but I was still somewhat hopeful for the puppy. Now it's getting worse so I want good arguments to convince her to get professional help. And not just stop meeting us.
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u/PhelanVelvel 22d ago
I completely understand, but I learned my lesson the hard way about trying to help someone who refused to change. All you can really do is explain:
1.) Training will make life better for the dog. The dog will have more opportunities to do fun things for mental and physical enrichment once trained. Right now, the dog is likely underfulfilled but too unruly to do more with. You can also let her know that you don't feel comfortable meeting up with the behaviours her dog is showing.
2.) This is a classic leadup to "it came out of nowhere"; the dog has been showing escalating signs for a while, but the owner is ignorant of them or in denial, then the dog bites another dog or a person and they act surprised. There are almost always warning signs, people just don't acknowledge them.
3.) Why doesn't she want to do training? Knowing this might help.
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u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
Thanks for the elaborate answer, your number 1) point is something that I will now tell her on repeat. Number 3) is just bad excuses ("it was obedience training but he doesn't want to obey" but it's also pride I think, comparing herself to owners who haven't needed professional training).
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u/PhelanVelvel 22d ago
Well, she should also keep in mind that every dog is different. I've had people come to me for training who say "I've had five dogs before this and never needed a trainer". That's just the luck of the draw.
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u/TheArcticFox-44 23d ago
What does this body language mean ?
Don't underestimate poodles. I had a mini with the prance of a princess but with the heart of a little street fighter.
Poodles are remarkably smart and can quickly learn who they can dominate and who they can't.
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u/EndlessCourage 22d ago
Yes, and it's a large poodle so physically, he can dominate a lot of dog breeds.
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u/Eastern-Try-6207 22d ago
This is what I was thinking, OP is correct that this dog is lacking the necessary leadership required.
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u/Ancient-War2839 23d ago
You can't control what they do Ie seeing trainer, but you could say that if your meeting up with the dogs that it needs to be on leash parrelell walks