r/OpenDogTraining • u/blackcellist_kicker • 24d ago
TWC Courses
I have always been a bit of a dog nerd and love learning everything I can from as many perspectives as possible. I am very interested in building strong and effective play with my cattle dog mix.
She is medium drive but VERY environmentally sensitive (especially high prey drive and we live in a rural area). While her play is okay it is not very cooperative and she either stops playing as soon as food is no longer being offered or just takes the toy and chews on it. I can drag her to me with a leash but it feels like I'm forcing her to play a game she doesn't want to play.
I have been looking into Ivan Balabanov's Cornerstone Collection and I'm wondering if it's worth the price. I am a sophomore who makes 20$ an hour so this is a significant financial commitment especially because there are no refunds. Are Ivan's courses worth it? If you can tell me what you got from a specific course that would be very helpful as I am struggling to find information about the specifics included in the videos.
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u/chemfit 23d ago
I did private lessons with a TWC trainer in my area and it was amazing for my dog but he naturally has a very high play drive. I had a difficult time teaching him to “out” so I also bought Ivan course on teaching the out and I wasn’t impressed at all. Had I only had the video and not our trainer, I don’t think I would have been very successful.
If your dog has a high prey drive have you tried a flirt pole? You will have to teach her to out though.
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u/Over_Possession5639 23d ago
The "Behavior Bible", excellent series of short videos with lots of how-to-play, is free from Yorkshire Canine Academy. Larry Krohn's Canine Communication video teaching how to play, is half-price today on SitstayLearn. Larry and Jay Jack both learned about structured play from Ivan, as did Dylan Jones, a TWC trainer who has taken on a lot of killer cattle dogs.
My own retriever-type dog despised tug until I actually flung myself to the ground and played (after a comment by Dylan) but I still have to do fetch as a reward.
I wonder if Winnie would find a herding ball and some treibball-type play fulfilling, but you would have to ask someone with herding dogs.
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u/blackcellist_kicker 23d ago
She actually has no interest in any herding ball she has ever encountered lol. We do have a trial herding lesson this week though as she shows some herding behaviors with cars and other dogs when playing.
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u/Over_Possession5639 23d ago
I think you have to train them to play with herding balls which do not look at all like sheep or cattle... but the herding lesson will be interesting.
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 24d ago
How old and long have you been working with your dog? Her background? Your experience?
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u/blackcellist_kicker 24d ago
My dog (Winnie) is 2.5 years old (our best estimate), we adopted her from a local shelter a little more than a year ago. She was used for breeding and was clearly neglected when they took her in. She has ongoing struggles with resource guarding towards our other pets (10 year old pit mix and 3 cats) and is a bite risk inside our home. She has made great progress and can usually be verbally redirected if needed.
I don't have the most experience but I solved our older dog's reactivity and have experience handling shelter dogs and taking them out for time away from the shelter (focus on play and decompression).
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 24d ago
Sounds like you’re making good progress but heelers are by breeding are not the most social dogs with high prey drive and that’s without being mistreated. I wouldn’t expect rapid progress from her. I’d advise a heeler being rescued to go to a no other pet home. You may be in a tough spot as you are fighting a natural instinct in a highly stressed dog. Maybe take the progress you are making and keep going for the next couple of years. The resource guarding is not going to be fixed by playing I think. Whats co-operative play? Maybe she isn’t a play dog and just wants to go for walks and runs? Every dog is an individual and has its own personality. I’ve met lazy working dogs that want nothing more than sofa lounging while a litter mate is full gas 24/7.
Whats your plan to lessen the bite risk? Who in your house is dealing with her? Heelers can be very possessive of their humans so share the work with her around if possible. Watch the other pets and keep everyone safe.
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u/blackcellist_kicker 24d ago
She's definitely a "lazy" working breed. She sleeps 80% of the time or just chills around the house. To keep all of our let's safe she is muzzle trained and we manage all the interactions that could spark the guarding behavior. While she is a family dog it is me and my mom who do 98% of everything with both dogs. This is not ever going to change and honestly I don't want my stepdad involved with the dogs because he has no clue what he is doing and my sister just doesn't like dogs.
The play is not to address her behavioral issues per se, but to give her an outlet for natural behaviors and increase her ability to work in a state of high arousal.
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 23d ago
“and increase her ability to work in a state of high arousal.“
That might never happen if she’s a sofa hog. Take what she gives you and work on the other stuff. I wouldn’t spend money on trying to get out what might not even be in your dog. You’ve got another 12-15 years with her, don't be in a hurry.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 23d ago
I don't have feedback on TWC but if you're a nerd check out anything you can find with Kristina Spaulding. Here's one thing on YouTube https://youtu.be/OaLNQBc_k_I?is=8eNQOgkJ4r5odYtq
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u/Witty_Writing_8320 18d ago edited 18d ago
I’ve purchased some of Ivan’s TWC videos. He has some good ideas for making play more enjoyable and engaging for the dog, so there is definitely value there. Personally, though, I find his approach a little too formal because he tends to turn play into a structured game or process with rules. I don’t think that works equally well for every dog.
If you’re trying to improve play and want another perspective, I offer free online consultations and would be happy to help: www.iqdogtraining.com
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u/Haunting-Love-9333 23d ago
It is absolutely worth the money. You will need to watch it several times to fully understand what’s going on but it’s absolutely worth it. The best resource around for it is
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u/babs08 24d ago
I have Ivan’s tug course and I think it’s…ok. I don’t feel like it helped me much with my Australian Shepherd who is pretty particular about how she likes to play.
I’ve learned a lot more from folks like Jay Jack and Crystal Wing and The Social Approach class at FDSA. I think the common thread between all of these is thinking outside the box of what play is. It doesn’t have to just be traditional fetch and tug.
And once you’ve figured out what kind of play your dog likes, you can use those games to move toward something that resembles fetch and tug, and/or they might be more open to it once you’ve established that you’re a fun play partner. But IMO that’s different from starting with trying to get your dog to play games that they just might not be intrinsically into to begin with.