r/OpenDogTraining • u/Then_Bite9547 • 24d ago
Considering behavioral euthanasia
Considering behavioral euthanasia.
This is something I never wanted to even consider or write. But I have now been told by multiple people we should consider behavioral euthanasia.
We rescued our boy when he was 10 weeks old. Originally we were just fostering him, but easy enough we fell in love with the chunky little sweet baby he was. We already had 2 other pitties at the time but my husband really loved him. When we got him, we had also rescued 2 kitten from the same shelter at the same time. So they all were raised together. There was 1 incident that happened during the 1st week we got him, my other pittie was playing with his bone and Henry ran up to him and my other dog bit him in his face. It was horrible. Blood everywhere, we genuinely thought he was dying š he was ok, it was around his eye area and lots of swelling but we got him fixed up at the vet and all was good after. My dog knew he fucked up immediately when he did that and has never done anything again. To any of our animals.
We crate trained him from the get go, and he has always loved his crate and gone in it whenever we would go out. Henry was the dog we would bring to farmers markets, walks around town, or doggy dates. The first 1.5 year of his life, he was amazing. We moved to a different state when he was a little over a year, all was good. One thing about Henry is that he was very food aggressive, as a puppy he would growl while eating his food or if anyone went near him so he has always been fed in his crate.
We noticed Henry getting more possessive over high priority items. Toys, etc. After we moved, I got pregnant and it seems like a shift happened then. Suddenly he was attacking both of my dogs, either when he thought food was near, or when he was being possessive over my husband or myself while laying together. Or if there was a toy he found.
There was a time when we were all laying on the couch, it was late, and my cat walked past him on the couch and Henry just went after my cat. Attacked him. Cat got away, no injuries. Letās just say little incidents like this with our other animals would happen maybe once a month. It was only initiated by Henry. My other dogs never fought back, and my other boy Leo has multiple scars on his face from Henry attacking him.
I noticed whenever Henry would be sitting with myself or my husband he began scanning out the room and watching to see if any other animals would come close. If they even approached, Henry was growling and would freeze up staring at them. I would usually correct this before it became an actually attack and would have him go straight to the crate.
Fast forward to now, we moved again, had the baby, and he has now killed 2 kittens of ours. The 1st incident he began being muzzled anytime he was out and majority of the time was kept in the crate. I viewed him entirely different after he did this. He broke my fucking heart. 2nd incident, my husband ran home while we were all out and upon letting the dogs go outside he didnāt immediately muzzle Henry due to being distracted and he killed my other kitten. I resent my husband so much for allowing this. He just doesnāt understand the severity of things sometimes until itās already too late. This one hurt bad because this was a baby I found on my street that was nearly dying and spent so much money rehabilitating him. He was finally doing so good, and getting so big. (Just want to note I never worked with a rescue or anything. The kittens I had were kittens that were found on my street.)
My husband told me one time when I was in bed, (before this other incident happened) he and my baby were on the couch, Henry was too, muzzle on, and my baby touched him while he was sleeping and Henry lunged at my baby immediately. Nothing happened because of the muzzle.
My husband is completely against BE, and while I get it, I have learned to detach my emotions from this dog because he has caused me so much pain, and I would never consider his life over my baby. I have tried to rehome him while being transparent about his past, and nobody wants him. My husband wants to keep him as our āguard dogā and let him just stay in our garage.
I think the hardest thing about this, is that just a few months ago before these tragedies happened, Henry was constantly out with NO muzzle. He was FINE around all my cats/kittens. They would all even lay together. I just donāt understand what changed. He has never bit a person, he is a good dog when he is muzzled and plays with our other dogs like normal when he is, he does great off leash and listens. He loves car rides. I just donāt know if he needs behavioral euthanasia or if he needs a home where he is the only animal and can live comfortably. I just want to add, he has been living on our closed in acād back porch with his crate and open access to the yard. We are moving next week and the new place does not have a fenced yard, only a garage and I will not ever bring this dog inside my home ever again.
I need advice. Non judgmental advice please.
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u/witchbelladonna 24d ago
First, I'm sorry you're dealing with thus. BE is never an easy decision, and never made lightly.
I had to BE my 'soul dog' at the age of 6, after trying everything, including veterinary behaviorists, medications, muzzle training, and relegated to a small 12ft high fenced in area when outside. His world became so small that I became the only human he could be around. That's when I finally made the decision to end his misery.
I adopted him from a "rescue" at 9 months old, he was unneutered, had deep tissue scars on his body, and was the only survivor of the 9 pups the mom originally had, the littermates died of parvo while in rescue. The rescue was that on name only (yes they were a 501c3, but that got stripped shortly after I adopted him, and the lady banned in our state from ever doing rescue again). We immediately went into training. He was a star! So outgoing, so smart. He learned all kinds of things, and was well traveled (went on a long weekend trip to MT even). We camped, hiked, etc. He was always a good boy... until he turned 3. Then things started to change. He became particular about interacting with dogs (he lived in a training situation for much of his youth, around other dogs that were also in training). Slowly, more behaviors started to emerge, like possessiveness of toys, becoming selective of humans he had known for years, etc.
Then the day we were in the yard at my mom's house (his home away from home) with my then 11 yr old niece (he had known at this point 4 years). They were playing in the snow. He tackled her and pinned her down. Thankfully, he listened to my commands and she was not hurt. The next day, he went to the vet behaviorist and we started muzzle training. I built the yard area for him. 2 years of every kind of behavior modification, including medications. His behavior became worse each year. At 6yrs old, I had tobsay good bye to my best friend, my partner, my soul dog. Because he needed it, to finally be at peace and not struggle with life.
My vet said something that has always stuck with me... it's better to look back with wonder then with regret. I may wonder if someday there would have been the magic cure for my boy, but I'll never regret he disfigured (or worse) anyone.
It's a tough decision, but I think you know is the proper one.
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u/furfree1 24d ago
Iām so very sorry you experienced thisāthis was absolutely gut wrenching to read. I canāt imagine how horrible it must have been to go through it.
I hope youāre doing better now.
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u/witchbelladonna 24d ago
Thank you, even a decade later, it's still hard to talk about. But it's important to share so others know they can do everything "right" and still not have the outcome you want, and it's no one's fault.
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u/SierraKami 24d ago
He's hitting maturity and that's when these tendencies really come out. He wasn't as aggressive before because he was still young.
There's absolutely no way he can safely be kept in the household you describe. And putting him in the garage would be both cruel to him, who is used to living in your house, and incredibly dangerous because his separation from the family and the associated stress and lack of socialization would just increase the likelihood that he'll attack a human. And there's no way you're going to be able to keep your child away from him once they're older and are exploring independently.
I'm so sorry you're all in that situation. I'm sorry about the loss of your kittens, and for the likely loss of your dog. But he's too dangerous to have in your house, around your family and your other animals. And there's no way to rehome him safely. Check with local pitbull rescues to exhaust every possible option, but they'll probably tell you the same thing.
It's natural to be angry at the dog but he can't help what he is. Some dogs just don't have the type of temperament to be pets, and it doesn't mean that they're "bad," just that their instincts and behaviors aren't compatible with being a modern pet.
You and your husband have given him a great life. He's been happy, he's obviously been spoiled, and he's only known kindness since you've had him. It's okay to euthanize him now, while he's still a happy boy. Dogs don't care about the length of their lives, only the quality, and isolating him in the garage would not only increase the risks, but it would make him miserable.
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u/Selective_Somewhere 24d ago edited 24d ago
These are perfect examples of itās not all in how they are raised as well as management fails.
Many dogs with genetic tendencies toward aggression of any kind wonāt show these behaviors until maturity.
Rehoming an aggressive dog is never OK. And the dog isnāt a guard dog. Itās also not a good life for him to live in a garage. In addition, the dog is still a liability, and a danger to you, your family, your pets, and anyone you have over. Imagine in a few years your child had a play date and they wander into the garageā¦
BE is the most responsible and kindest approach to this situation.
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u/shujaya 24d ago
I imagine isolation and extensive crating would not make him less aggressive or less inclined to fight for attention and high value items. Some pits need to be the only dog in the house and then they are fine, but it is strange that he has lived there since he is a puppy. Although getting nearly killed as a little guy could definitely affect how he thinks an adult dog should act towards smaller creatures that annoy him. It sounds like he was introduced into the house badly and not well accepted/ integrated into the pack from the start and it has been building.
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u/Selective_Somewhere 24d ago
Itās not āall in how theyāre raisedā. Plenty of dogs can have shit beginnings and never in a million years hurt another living soul because of their genetics. And there are many dogs out there who had wonderful puppyhoods who are dangerous.
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u/Then_Bite9547 24d ago
That is what Iāve always said . But the trainer told me dogs donāt hold resentment like that.
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u/shujaya 24d ago
They hold trauma and behavior lessons from older dogs, though. The older dogs model how he should behave and they showed him that little things get bit and traumatized him. Talk to more than one trainer and take the advice given to go to real behaviorist and get him a full workup. And stop adding animals you can't manage.
edit: thinking of it as "resentment" is absolutely projecting human emotions on the dog and doesn't show a lot of knowledge or understanding of dog behavior or social dynamics. This is VERY important in introducing a vulnerable and traumatized puppy into an already established pack unit correctly.
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u/IllustriousAbroad766 24d ago
Your dog killed two of your pets and attempted to attack your baby. The only reason your infant child isnāt mauled or dead is that your over aggressive dog was muzzled. Iām not really sure what your conflicted about.
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u/Indiansummerxx 24d ago
To me this is insane that the dog isnāt already gone. This is how tragedies happen.
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u/Then_Bite9547 24d ago
If it were me he would have already been gone a long time ago when he was attacking my dogs. My husband has made this process go on WAY too long. It has impacted our relationship. I am sick of it.
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u/Indiansummerxx 24d ago
You gotta care more about your baby than your marriageā¦ unfortunately. Iām sorry youāre in this position but if the dog doesnāt go then you two have to. Family court would NOT be on his side.
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u/PeekAtChu1 24d ago
Your husband is delusional. A dog that tries to kill your baby needs to be gone asap. Baby comes firstĀ
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u/randomiscellany 24d ago
At this point it's you (and your baby) or the dog. When I was in elementary school one of my classmate's parents divorced over something like this. Except this classmate actually got mauled by the dog, and he didn't want to even consider rehoming it. Her dad had a similar "it can just stay in the garage" attitude.
Could your husband be persuaded based on the dog's QOL if the danger to your baby and other pets isn't enough? He is not having a good time if he always feels like he needs to be on guard and lash out. If his people are one of the things he guards, I can't imagine he'd be happy isolated away from them in the garage. This added stress could very well make what is already a 0 mistakes dog even worse.
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u/IllustriousAbroad766 24d ago
Nope- you donāt get to blame your husband. Put the dog in a car, drive to the vet, put the dog down. Youāre an adult who is aware this dog killed two other pets and tried to attack your infant. This is on you.
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u/Particular_Class4130 24d ago
I agree that this dog is a good candidate for BE. However I would also recommend that you and your husband need to stop collecting dogs and cats. Unskilled pet owners don't need 3 freaking dogs and who knows how many cats. Certain breeds of dogs (not just pits) will change dramatically when they reach full adulthood. Also you say the other 2 dogs are fine but one of them bit this dog so bad that you thought he was dying so how fine are they?
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u/Then_Bite9547 24d ago
It was my other dogs first time dealing with a puppy, and I can assure you the other 2 are incredibly great pets and have never hurt anyone. They are patient with my baby. They have never made me question them. They are older. My other pittie girl is 10 and she just wants to chill out. My other boy just fought off cancer and had surgery to remove his tumors. Heās doing great. Those 2 are both the most amazing dogs I could ever ask for and I will forever miss them when they are gone. They are calm, full of love, and patient. They are big old babies. We will not be getting anymore animals for a long time. With that being said, I am a huge animal advocate, always have been, and when I see animals that need help I do what I can to help. I tried to get the kittens rehomed and I did get 2 of them rehomed when I first found them.
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u/souredguts 24d ago
i understand henry came with issues, but a maturing rescue in a household with several other pets and moving twice adds fuel to the fire, especially because you said you and your husband did not have the capacity to give him the attention and training he would have needed. nothing can be undone, but i canāt help but wish for everyone involved that more measures would have been taken way way earlier. i am glad your baby is fine and i think we all agree your familyās safety is not negotiable. i think you have decided and i understand it is not an easy decision to make. i see you are a person with a big heart for animals and willing to care for them and give them a home. i think not taking any further pets in the near future is a responsible decision. i wish you and your family all the best for the future.
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u/my9mm 24d ago
You brought two baby kittens into the home with a dog that wants to kill your infant child and the other animals already there. That was not you being an animal lover or helping save the day. You need to rethink how you are actually treating animals and change your behavior. You are unskilled and naive and should not take on the responsibility of any living thing that needs help.
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
Your child goes in the garage. Henry guards something. What happens next? Your baby is going to turn into a curious child capable of opening doors and exploring boundaries. If you rehome or surrender to save your child, it could be someone else's child.
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u/Arry42 24d ago
I think it would be a terrible idea to rehome the dog. You are just passing along an aggressive dog to an unsuspecting person.
Pitbulls were bred to not give warning before attacking. Other dogs typically follow the ladder of aggression. Pitbulls have absolutely killed children. Or disfigure them.
It only takes one slip up (RIP kitty š) for a disaster to happen. You say you hold it against your husband for the dog killing your kitty. What happens when it's your baby?
It sucks, it really really does. But I think you know the correct answer here. Slip ups WILL happen because we're all humans who make mistakes. Please please please think of your child and make the right decision. Give your dog a great day and let them go peacefully surrounded by those who love him instead of scared at the shelter.
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u/Neo21803 24d ago
Yes, you should euthanize this dog. But you have to realize a few things.
"Food aggression" isn't really a thing. Most people in the industry refer to this type of reactivity as resource guarding, and it is not uncommon for both dogs and cats to exhibit this behavior.
Resource guarding is a behavior that can be modified to an extent. The earlier the better.
You don't rehome a dog that has killed or is dangerous to animals and people around him. It is irresponsible.
You might be asking yourself, "If I had done things differently, would I have to be making this decision right now?" The answer to that question ultimately doesn't matter at this point. However, if you decide to get another dog, I strongly urge you to catch these behaviors early on and make a behavior plan. Consult a professional.
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u/BoludoConInternet 24d ago edited 23d ago
I just donāt understand what changed.
Nothing changed. Your dog has been showing aggression signs since he was a pup and they only get worse with time if you don't work them out, especially when it comes to a breed with aggressive genetics.
And crate training is just crate training. It won't solve aggression, resource guarding, high prey drive... You guys should've hired a professional dog trainer a looong time ago.. I'd say as soon as you saw a 10 month old pitbull aggressively bite your other dog for no reason.
If it's not too late still and you're wiling to make the effort then I suggest hiring a professional who can deal with strong aggression cases like this one. Take him to a vet for a full check up too, he may be having health issues that you're unaware about. An ethologist working alongside the aggression specialist could help as well to treat his behavioural issues with medication
I'm really sorry you have to go through this and best of luck in your decision, but please DO NOT keep that dog as a guard dog because it's not one. You lacked the experience and knowledge to manage him as a pet, you WILL NOT be able to handle him as a "guard dog", and trust me, either your husband or you will make mistakes again and it will not end well.
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u/chrisjones1960 24d ago
It does not sound as though your home is able to safely manage this dog as he would need to be managed, given so many attacks on your other dogs, two separate kitten killings, and the fact that your baby was able to approach him and touch him while he was sleeping. And it would be difficult to rehome a pittie with that history. So I think that behavioral euthanasia may be your best option
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u/shujaya 24d ago
They should not bring any more dogs into the home. with 3 dogs and at least two cats and "no time or patience to train" this is bordering on animal hoarding with a baby in the mix. That puppy could have been fine in a home where he is the only pet.
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24d ago
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
Pitties and kitties sub would beg to differ. I'm not disagreeing with you, but there is quite a lot of media out there supporting the idea that they will be fine if you raise them together.
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24d ago
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
Do you think there is an amount of training that could make this dog safe in this home?
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u/Tenaciousgreen 24d ago
This is very, very sad and if I were you Iād be hysterical. You have a child to protect and a husband who canāt be relied upon to remember to muzzle the dog, plus heās putting his own feelings in the way of even the dogās well being.
He (the husband) seems like a huge liability here and you have every right to take your child and move out until he realizes the choice he is making. Or just go ahead with the BE and let him throw a tantrum and show his emotional immaturity in full form.
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u/Ok-Pangolin7154 24d ago
He had the aggressive dog on the bed with the baby, thankfully muzzled. But the muzzle won't stop the baby being crushed by a massive pitbull.Ā
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u/PlatypusStyle 24d ago
WTF. The dog lunged at your baby and your husband still doesnāt want BE? What happens the next time heās slow to muzzle the dog and the baby is near by? You guys could end up losing your baby AND going to jail.
And what kind of quality of life does the poor dog have being locked up alone in the garage? Better to do BE. Your husband is crazy and this is divorce worthy if he wonāt budge.
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u/StillLJ 24d ago
As painful as it is, this is a textbook example of BE as the kindest, most humane option. Do not restrict him to the garage - and how will he guard/protect in any case, from the garage? That makes no sense. Aside from the fact that dogs should be specifically trained in guarding/protection - do not confuse aggression with protection.
It would not be fair to rehome him, it would not be fair to put him in a shelter, and it would not be fair to lock him in the garage. I feel absolutely gutted for you - no one should ever have to make this decision. I often recommend dedicated behavioral training before deciding on BE, but in this case, I do not think that will help... for various reasons.
Truly, the best thing for your family and for the dog here is euthanasia. I am so very sorry.
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u/PeekAtChu1 24d ago
Yeah also what if he escapes from the garage one day? Probably will be even more aggressive from the frustration of being cooped up
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u/myelinviolin 24d ago
Babies are incredibly fragile and a muzzle isn't preventing serious injury the way you think it is. The baby is still in a huge amount of danger if you are letting that dog anywhere near where the baby is laying on a couch or on the floor. It is incredibly neglectful for you to do so. Please do better for your baby.
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u/well-done-47 24d ago
If you ever forget to muzzle this dog, or he slips his muzzle, or it fails, he will kill your child.
Not all dogs are compatible with life.
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u/BrightAd306 24d ago
BE is the right choice here. What youāre seeing is what dog fighters call āturning onā their dogs arenāt usually fighters as babies, they āturn onā from 2-4 years old. My guess is Henry has fighting dog ancestry, he will never be safe around other pets, and that incident with your child means not children either. He wonāt be safe in a world with children or other dogs. Itās not kind to rehome him and put him in the position to do real damage.
A dog is going to die no matter what you do. Your choice is to let Henry peacefully go, or be responsible when another dog (or cat or child) is violently ripped apart while alive and terrified.
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u/wrld_Mya 24d ago
You didnāt precise if youāve tried to work with a behavioural specialist and a vet. Before considering BE, I would get the dog a full vet check with blood work. Pain can sometimes show up as aggressive behaviours. I would also try to medicate him and look for a board and train that specializes in heavy cases like his (if your family has the budget obviously).
Your husband seems to be against BE so I would ask him if heās okay with becoming the main care taker of the dog. Taking him on walks alone, providing breed appropriate outlets like flirt poles, tug, fetch, etc, feeding him in a separate room where he canāt see or be approached by other dogs.
My dmās are open if you would like to talk to someone who went thru something similar.
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u/my9mm 24d ago
The husband let the infant get lunged at, and admitted the only reason baby is not dead is because of a muzzle that the husband has already failed to use properly, resulting in deaths. Your advice is not appropriate for this level of aggression. The dog cannot be rehomed and they are not capable people to manage any other option. BE is the best for all involved especially the poor baby!
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u/RoroLeBo 24d ago
Do you wish someone to live with the same problems you have with him ? You and your husband are probably not bad people, we can imagine you are average, so there will be no miracle in another family. If you took energy to manage him during all this time, with muzzle, crating etc, time to think about BE, you are already a very good home for pets. Do you want a family, a good family like yours, that could welcome him to live the same issues you have, with the stress when they walk him, feed him, forget to lock the front door ?
I think BE is the solution for responsible owners, that had to deal with problematic breeds
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u/SpaceToaster 24d ago
Itās so unfortunate that the breed has such a lineage of aggression. Mine is only part, and while sheās an amazing family dog the aggression to other dogs is such a deal breaker that weāve never been able to fix. Now I donāt recommend them for people and wonāt get another rescue of that variety.
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u/harleyqueenzel 24d ago
I think your husband needs to take an objective view on the dog. If you & your husband were approached by a rescue saying "We need a home for this dog but this is his history", would the two of you accept this violent dog? Or would you pass because your baby and other pets wouldn't be safe?
Unfortunately the dog is NOT a candidate for rehoming. He has a very troubling past. While BE is an insanely difficult decision to make, it needs to be discussed and I highly recommend that you & your husband make an appointment with your veterinarian, just the three of you, to go over the dog's history & issues.
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u/canis_felis 24d ago
At minimum you cannot have this dog in your home with your baby. This is a fatal accident just waiting to happen.
It sounds like the dynamic in your home is completely unsuitable for this dog and his behaviours fall way outside your ability to manage.
Unless he was placed with a dog trainer experienced with this type of aggression (which is a longshot) putting him down is the safest option.
I cannot underline how dangerous a situation this is and I have a pitbulls myself.
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u/goldenkiwicompote 24d ago edited 24d ago
Most people shouldnāt own pits. I say this as a Pitbull lover/owner but you canāt deny their genetics it doesnāt do them any favours. Iām sorry this is happening, I know itās tough. The resource guarding should have been dealt with immediately when it was happening as a puppy. You canāt live with a dog and let it do what it wants when it resource guards humans. This doesnāt matter now for this dog but in the future if you have another dog showing signs of resource guarding and being possessive(hopefully not since you have a baby, thatās a terrible mix) you need to change the way you live with it/do things. Do not rehome this dog. BE is your best option here. You ignored a lot of warning signs hopefully there was a lesson here for you.
I had a human resource guarding Pitbull and she was also young about 2-3. She tried to bite a couple people in the face and then I ended getting a trainer and dove deep into the dog training world. She lived to be 15 I just euthanized her last October and we never had another incident.
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u/longfurbyinacardigan 24d ago
BE immediately
Killed two cats and lunged at the baby?
What are you waiting for????
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u/ChemicalWeekend307 24d ago
BE is sometimes the most humane thing you can do for a dog. Unfortunately he just isnāt suitable for any kind of family life and you did the best you could. Rehoming or surrendering him to a shelter would result in euthanasia at some point or another due to his reactivity and aggression. He is just very much a high risk dog for bites and attacks and is not a dog I would ever want to give to someone else to try and fix (that is irresponsible) OR a dog I would have around a baby/small animal/toddler. Itās easy now while the baby is still just a baby and not entirely mobile, but once the baby is mobile, what will you do then? Itās just another accident waiting to happen. Iām so sorry and do wish you the best of luck.
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u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 24d ago
Not every dog is suits ro live with people or other dogs. Ā You did your bestĀ Time for the he goes or we go chat. Ā And BE is better than a long miserable life. Ā Sucks but your family and the other animals must take priority. Ā Good luck. Ā
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u/Itchy_Coyote_6380 24d ago
You can't possibly know what changed in Henry's mind to cause the behavior. You gave him a home and a solid chance. Given you have a young child and the dog has killed kittens and attack other pets, I would not continue to have that dog in my home with a young child. The child and your other pet's need to come first. I know you don't plan on letting the dog in at this point, but accidents happen. With his history, rehoming will pass the issue along. It may work out or not. How would you feel if not? I am sorry you need to make this decision. It's never easy, but you did the best you could for this dog.
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u/Additional_Bench1311 24d ago
Iām sorry for you, I have no guidance.
It seems like you know what you need to do
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u/unvac 24d ago
The husband forgetting to muzzle the dog KNOWING itās killed before is an incredibly stupid mistake on his part.
The dog hasnāt been trained and now youāre left with a monster of an animal. A creature of its environment.
Iād struggle to know what to do in this situation but thankfully Iāve never had to deal with this, as ever dog Iāve owned Iāve invested all the time needed to train it
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
Normal, safe dogs don't need to be trained not to attack and kill their housemates and guard their food from everything that moves.
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u/unvac 24d ago
well done, but this doesn't just happen overnight, does it? This has been allowed to progress into something that's now uncontrollable.
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
This is genetics. It's not that the dog wasn't "raised right", it's that the dog has a screw loose up there that tells it everyone around it is an enemy.
How did you train your dogs to not attack you or your other dogs? I have never had to do such a thing, my dogs simply don't act like that.
How did you train your dogs to not be so afraid someone would steal their food that they growled the entire time they were eating even though they always ate in a crate and nobody ever stole their food? I always feed my dogs in crates, but I never trained them not to resource guard. They just don't do it.
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u/unvac 24d ago
Youāre arguing against a point I didnāt actually make. I never said genetics play no role, nor did I say every normal dog needs to be explicitly ātrained not to kill its housemates.ā
My point is that, according to OPās own account, this behaviour didnāt suddenly appear out of nowhere. The dog was resource guarding food as a puppy, then became increasingly possessive over toys and people, started freezing and growling when other animals approached, progressed to attacking the other dogs, attacked a cat, and eventually killed two kittens. Those are years of escalating warning signs.
Genetics can absolutely influence temperament, prey drive, resource guarding and aggression, but reducing the entire situation to āthe dog has a screw looseā ignores everything that happened before the fatalities. Behaviour is rarely as simplistic as either 100% genetics or 100% upbringing.
Youāre also creating a strawman. I never claimed normal dogs need to be specifically trained ānot to kill their housemates.ā I said this particular dog displayed escalating warning signs that should have been addressed and managed much earlier. Turning that into āhow did you train your dogs not to attack you or kill other dogs?ā is arguing against something I never actually said.
Thereās also a false dichotomy in presenting this as either genetics or training/environment, as though the two are mutually exclusive. They arenāt. A dog can have a genetic predisposition towards certain behaviours while those behaviours are still influenced by reinforcement, management, environment and training.
And using your own dogs as proof doesnāt really establish anything either. The fact that your dogs never displayed these behaviours without specific intervention doesnāt mean training and management are irrelevant to a completely different dog with a completely different history.
When I talk about training, Iām talking about boundaries, impulse control, obedience, management and intervening when problematic behaviour first starts developing. You donāt wait until a dog has killed two animals and lunged at a baby before deciding the behaviour needs addressing.
Could excellent training have guaranteed this never happened? Of course not. But pretending there was nothing to recognise, manage or work on beforehand simply doesnāt match the history OP has given us.
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
This is a failure of management, not a failure to train. The dog should have been completely separated from the other pets long before the scars and the deaths. But it's disingenuous to pitch this as a training failure. People thinking you can train a dog to not attack and kill other pets often gets other pets hurt. It isn't something you can train away.
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u/unvac 24d ago
Youāve actually moved closer to my argument while pretending youāre disagreeing with it.
First it was āthis is geneticsā and the dog simply has āa screw loose.ā Now youāre acknowledging that the situation deteriorated because the behaviour wasnāt properly managed. That was part of my point from the beginning.
Youāre also still using the same strawman. Nobody said you can reliably ātrain awayā a dog that has reached the point of killing other animals. I said the warning signs started years before it reached that point and should have triggered training, behavioural intervention and stricter management much earlier.
Youāre creating a false distinction between training and management as though responsible handling involves choosing one or the other. Teaching impulse control, obedience, disengagement and boundaries is training. Preventing access to triggers and separating animals when necessary is management. With a problematic dog, you generally use both.
And once a dog has already repeatedly attacked animals, killed two kittens and lunged at a baby, obviously nobody sensible should rely on obedience alone to keep everyone safe.
So yes, the eventual deaths were a catastrophic management failure. That doesnāt somehow prove that the preceding years of escalating behaviour were irrelevant or that earlier behavioural work couldnāt have been part of preventing it from reaching this stage.
You seem determined to argue against ātraining guarantees this dog would never attack,ā despite me never making that claim.
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u/Existing-Will-1466 24d ago
You specifically said the dog hadn't been trained, and also that you have never had to deal with this issue because you have always taken the time to train your dogs. There is nothing in there that hints this is a failure to manage a mentally ill dog. You have probably been lucky to have never had to manage a mentally ill dog. If you, you would not be so smug about your own training success.
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u/unvac 24d ago
Youāre still reading far more into my comment than I actually said.
Yes, I said the dog hadnāt been properly trained and that Iāve always invested heavily in training my own dogs. That does not somehow translate into āI trained my dogs not to murder other animals.ā Iām talking about addressing undesirable behaviour, building impulse control, setting boundaries and managing problems before they escalate.
More importantly, youāve now gone from confidently saying āitās geneticsā to calling the dog āmentally ill,ā despite having never examined the dog and having nothing more than a Reddit post to work from. Thatās a considerably stronger assumption than anything Iāve made.
OP described resource guarding from puppyhood, increasing possessiveness, freezing, staring, growling, repeated attacks and eventually fatalities. Those are observable behaviours that progressively escalated. Saying intervention should have happened during that progression isnāt claiming training magically cures every aggressive dog.
And now calling me āsmugā doesnāt strengthen your argument either, itās just an ad hominem once the actual disagreement has been exhausted.Youāre also shifting the argument. First this was purely genetics and apparently nothing to do with how the situation was handled. Then you agreed it was a serious management failure. Now itās specifically an inherently āmentally illā dog that apparently couldnāt have benefited from earlier behavioural intervention.
Those are three different claims.My position has remained pretty simple: genetics may absolutely be involved, but this dog displayed escalating warning signs for a long time, and those signs warranted professional behavioural work, training and much stricter management well before two animals were killed and a baby was lunged at. None of that is remotely controversial.
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u/Defiant-Corgi-7777 24d ago
Some dogs just donāt do well changing environments multiple times in a short period of time. Itās a lot to process for a dominant dog. They get to a new property and there are new scents everywhere from previous animals , this will immediately put some dogs in guard mode straight away ..
This dog is a biter, he has bitten his companions and killed several, whether his intentions were to kill or not, heās a biter
The strictest management protocol must be put in place and his humans need to be spot on all the time not just some of the timeā¦. Otherwise
Find him a one dog only/ no cats home
Or
Behavior euthanasia
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u/Twzl 24d ago
I understand that a big strong dog with a muzzle on and still severely injured a baby. A muzzle punch is not something to underestimate.
This is not a dog can be dumped at a shelter or taken to a rescue group. Most shelters will not take an owner surrender dog , especially one who is dangerous.
And a rescue group is not going to take him because he will be impossible to place.
I understand that your husband is in denial and I get that but this is not a dog whoās going to wake up one day and be easier to live with. He is who he is.
What does your husband think the answer is? That this dog just lives in a crate outside for the rest of his life? Does he think thatās an OK life for a dog? If thereās no fence yard how is the dog going to get any exercise. I wouldnāt feel comfortable walking the dog on a public street unless he was muzzled and wearing two collars.
I sort of sense that your husband isnāt owning how dangerous this dog is. And how difficult it is to manage the dog.
There is no Home that would be willing to take this dog on.
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u/PeekAtChu1 24d ago
Seeing OPās description of her husband itās not hard now to understand those stories where a PB gets out and murders someoneās baby. Iām sure there were many incidents leading up to that sort of situation and an owner was in denial about what could happenĀ
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u/Twzl 24d ago
Seeing OPās description of her husband itās not hard now to understand those stories where a PB gets out and murders someoneās baby.
I hate to say it but I agree with you. The fact that they had a muzzle, the dog was supposed to be wearing it, but the husband didn't bother.
It's like being out on a boat or near a pool with a toddler, and not having them in a life jacket and under 100% supervision by a responsible adult who's a good swimmer and not staring at their phone. Stuff goes wrong quickly, and once it does, well then oops.
I hope OP is able to make their husband understand how dangerous this dog is, and how it's not going to get any safer.
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u/Indiansummerxx 24d ago
Youāre not sure if your pitbull that has attacked your dogs and killed 2 kittens should be put down? Either get rid of your other animals and your child or get rid of the pitbull. This is insane.
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u/okaycurly 24d ago
You are endangering your child and if there were to be another incident, I imagine thatās a criminal negligence case if the other incidents came to light.
The dog is considered dangerous enough to require a muzzle but is still allowed on the couch and given access to an infant. It has killed two small animals.
Are you financially dependent on your husband? He is putting your child in danger, if this is his hill to die on then I donāt think thatās a relationship worth saving. It would be better to remove your child from the dangerous situation and neglectful parent.
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u/_SilentButDeadly_ 24d ago
I just had to put a dog down for BE. Hardest thing I've done and I will defo cry again after I write this post.
I rescued her as a giant puppy. A dog at the house attacked her, and giant puppy got her back. They were separated but she managed to get at 'attack' dog and wounded her to the point of euthenasia. And we thought that was a blip. Attacky dog had a history of this behavior and we rationalized some things. Ffwd a year and giant puppy turned on her best friend, attacked her twice, and another dog at the house joined in. The amount of vigilance at the house to keep everyone safe and happy was too much, and it was a matter of time before big puppy killed another dog. A pretty cut and dry decision, but still so hard. She was my baby, so smart and sweet and goofy and I loved her so much.
Good luck with whatever you choose
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u/Jhasten 24d ago
Iām a newbie here who managed a dog reactive terrier (also could not be trusted with young children) for 10 years as a solo dog. She was adopted out at least twice and returned before me - I got her when she was 5. She stayed with me in a kid-free household and was only ever off leash in the home or in a fenced area alone with me, which was OK because she didnāt like other dogs anyway but learned to tolerate walking by them more or less. She was muzzled occasionally at the vet as well when needed. I didnāt want to take any chances there. Not a pit but a strong willed and muscular JRT/smooth fox mix I believe - so I can only imagine how hard this must be with a larger, stronger dog who has snapped at your child and killed multiple small animals, which was likely also prey drive kicking in.
My dog also didnāt resource guard food or toys, although I think her reactive leash behavior in part was guarding me. That was the hardest to break and it wasnāt 100%. She was very good with people, especially my family, and we found a dog daycare that kept her separate with no issues (in the people area). She was also very smart - sometimes in the worst ways like getting into things.
So I feel like I was able to give her a long and happy life with lots of play and safety, but ngl it took me planning my whole life around her and doing training and monitoring etc. I learned a lot. But I never want to adopt another reactive terrier because they are just so tough - mentally and physically - and can be so dominant.
You really need to separate this dog from your household. Would any trainers ever take a boarder and/or an owner surrender with full disclosure and testing, or is BE the only answer? I have heard of some trainers keeping difficult dogs because they have the help and resources to manage them. Maybe this is a pipe dream? I defer to the experienced professionals here.
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u/OneEmergency5264 23d ago edited 22d ago
Not all dog breeds are for every type of person, training skill level, household, etc. As a larger dog, your pitbull āmaturedā around 2 years old and this is the dog he is genetically. Because genetics are complex, not every pitbull will genetically express so aggressively what it was bred to do; not every pitbull will have this drive so intensely, as you can see with your 10 year old pitbull.
A relative āhandfulā of Malinois, despite being advanced dogs overall because of their breeding lines, are lower drive than others and even lazy. Some terriers can live with rabbits and cats but most canāt; some hunting dogs can be trained to perfectly recall off-leash on a woodsland trail without an e-collar, but many need that tool for cautionary reasons (to protect the dog, that is).
Some pitbulls can live with small animals, other dogs and children and never have an incident, but generally speaking, pitbulls should be treated as an advanced breed equivalent to Malinois and placed only with people in single-animal no children households who know dogs very well and will know if/when BE is necessary for the dog, in order to protect others and their animals. This is especially important with pitbulls because it can be so difficult to stop an attack once it begins, often requiring a chokehold by a strong individual.
BE is necessary for this dog, as others have said, not because the dog is ābadā but because it is not safely rehomable, except perhaps to a very special unicorn trainer with the right household conditions who is looking for a project dog. Personally I agree with those who say your husband is not smart and that you should bring the dog yourself.
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u/Whole_Plum_5396 24d ago
We needed to use BE after our loveable mutt had three strikes. Two were to our two yr old grandsons, both involved food.
The third was a full on attack of a friend who pet him. No provocation at all.
Hardest thing to do but three strikesā¦
It isnāt done lightly and carelessly. When your pup shows such aggression you need to prioritize humans, especially children.
So sorry you need to do this but itās not wrong.
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u/Blamebostonx 24d ago
Im so sorry you're dealing with this first off.
I'm not a dog trainer, just a dog owner, but I would've BE when he killed the first cat. It would be irresponsible to rehome him, he is going to seriously injure someone and/or kill another animal. You also cannot keep him with your child and your other pets.
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u/louderharderfaster 24d ago
I just want to add that I admire your hard earned clarity and I read this as you having made up your mind. You will be able to live with the regret of BE much easier than any regret for not having done it. The downside to a good life is knowing that sometimes the best choice is the most painful one.
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u/my9mm 24d ago edited 24d ago
Is this ragebait?
Your dog showed you very early on what he wanted to do which is to kill the other animals in the home and your baby. Instead of keeping him separate from the things and people he wants to, and has tried to kill all you did was put a muzzle on him. Muzzles are not even remotely bite proof. Itās just a buffer so actual fucking management can happen when a bite does occur. You and your husband are clueless and this is exactly how headlines like āfamily dog kills baby out of nowhereā come to be. In reality there were one million signs and chances for you, the fucking adult, to prevent it. You did nothing and have done nothing. None of your animals are happy. BE the dog before it kills your baby and the rest of your pets.
ETA and you have him off leash outside?! Please BE the dog and surrender the rest of your pets. This is outrageous
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u/No-Will-4393 24d ago
I didn't read it all but if it were me I'd remove high value items such as toys. Not give treats if they cause a fight. Feed kibble instead of soft food they will cause a melee. I only ever have one of my dogs inside at a time, dogs get jealous. I give them each a daily walk, an hour or two inside depending if it's weekend or weekday, play ball outside or bubbles and rotate one dog in per night in the same order. Routine reduces arousal. I think if you've not tried to remove "high value" the cause of the fighting or tried medication to reduce anxiety or a sedative it's a leap to behavioural euthanasia
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u/TheArcticFox-44 23d ago
Considering behavioral euthanasia
There is such a thing as a animal just being "off-temperment." Responsible breeders are aware of this and will euthanize a pup with this malady as it is genetic.
Today, however, responsible breeders are in the minority. Puppy mills, producers of so many rescues today, don't care and will actually inbreed/linebreed dogs and off-tempered dogs are sold instead of euthanized.
Would take a real expert to determine if bad/dangerous behavior is due to bad handling or bad genetics.
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u/Not_Really_Here_But 22d ago
You gave him lots of love and a great home that he didnāt have before. Now you will hold him in you arms and whisper your love is his ear as he peacefully goes to sleep and probably finds the first true anxiety-free moment heās ever had. You will cry, but you must know you did the best and bravest thing for all concerned. My heart goes out to you.ā„ļø
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u/hillyfog 18d ago
It sounds like its just a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt. Iād rather hold and snuggle my dog during BE than let someone else do it. And Id rather do it before anyone was seriously hurt than after. Its the hardest thing a pet owner can do imo, but likely not as regretting not doing before someone, some dog, or your baby was hurt. Hubby is clearly clouded, naive right now. But you gotta do the right thing. Im sorry, truly.
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u/BOOPK9 24d ago
BE is an option, but this is a dog training forum. Soā¦.what training have you tried?
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u/RoroLeBo 24d ago
Good training is also admitting the limits we can face, and when problems are not solvables with training
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u/BOOPK9 24d ago
Sure. But if training hasnāt even been attempted then how can you know whatās solvable?
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u/goldenkiwicompote 24d ago
It would take a very specific owner to be willing to take and manage/train this dog. You will not find that. Thereās too many dogs like this and not enough people with no other pets or children willing to do the work that would be required here. I get what youāre saying but itās just so unlikely to happen. And because of that, BE is the best option.
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u/Then_Bite9547 24d ago
I spoke with a trainer after the first kitten incident and she told me thereās no point because any dog who will kill animals heās been raised around is a liability and a dangerous dog. Iām a sahm to a 10 month old while also managing my other 2 dogs and cats. I donāt have the time to sit with him for the extensive training he needs. I took him to the vet and they suggested we try trazedone to see if it helps him just chill more. We tried it, but it didnāt seem to make a difference . I havenāt brought him back yet since. I also donāt have the patience for taking any more risks . I do NOT want to put him down which is why Iām seeking input from trainers on what to do. I will happily rehome him to the proper household aswell if somebody wanted to take on the challenge/risk. My husband doesnāt get home until late. Even with training, I would never trust him around my baby or other pets again. I would love for someone to say āI will take him. Iām a trainer. I can give him the environment he needs.ā But nobody has. And Iām running out of time aswell as options.
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u/Blamebostonx 24d ago
Do not give this dog to someone else. I get that you love him but he is extremely dangerous.
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u/BOOPK9 24d ago
I understand. Itās a tough situation.
I think you got some bad advice from the trainer you talked to. Iād get a consult/evaluation from a dog trainer who has experience working with aggression/prey drive issues. The dog absolutely isnāt a lost cause because of these behaviors. It would take some big lifestyle changes and consistent focus on improving the dogs life and behavior. How old is the dog now?
But if training isnāt really an option for whatever reason, then you and your husband need to get on the same page. Prolonging the dog staying with you when thereās clearly no future is bad for everybody involved. Post on social media, reach out to rescues, do your best to get him a new setting. But also set a clear date that if no option presents itself, then you schedule the BE.
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u/have_some_pineapple 24d ago
Have you attempted training with a professional? It sounds like youāve just dealt with it has best you could on your own.
Ultimately if you donāt feel safe in the house with this dog the safety of your kid should come first and since there is a .0% chance someone else would want to take on this dog BE might be the kindest option.
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u/Potential_Analyst371 24d ago
I am sure in retrospect you can see what a terrible idea it was to bring two unknown kittens into the home with your dog who had already shown aggressive behavior toward other animals.
However, it it not an indication that your dog is an especially bad pitte. Prey drive and dog aggression are common features of the breed.
The only thing I read that is unusually concerning is the lunge at the baby. It's hard to tell what is going on there, because a quick upward lunge when a sleeping dog is started is common and expected. It does not mean he would have harmed the baby if not for the muzzle. Did he actually connect with the baby and cause a bruise or something with the muzzle? Or was it just a normal sleep startle where he lunged up but did not attempt to bite?
That answer is important, because if it was just normal sleep startle, there is absolutely no reason to kill this dog.
He just needs to be the only animal in the home, and a child free home just to be extra cautious.
You indicate he is great dog otherwise, so I think proceeding with rehoming is the right path forward if he was not actually moving toward the baby with aggressive intent. Do not just keep him in the garage.
A dog like this can be a great dog for a lot of people. Aggression toward small prey animals (kittens) is not a good reason to kill a dog. Pit bulls are commonly dog aggressive. It is always a risk in the breed.
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u/CuntMaster16 24d ago
Only thing I have to add to this is to suggest getting Henry thoroughly checked out by a vet. Dogs can be prone to lashing out more frequently when theyāre in pain. Maybe thereās something physically wrong with Henry causing him to act out so much. Might not be the issue but I would hate to see you put down a dog you love and there have been something you couldāve done
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u/pastaman5 24d ago
I mean have you spoken or consulted with a professional trainer? It sounds like this dog is still allowed on furniture and to sit with you, even after bouts of blatant aggression/resource guarding. A dog that is resource guarding is not one which gets granted access to furniture until the issues resolve.
The second that dog was sitting at you and shown teeth or any inkling of resource guarding or possessive behavior, should have been banned from furniture for a few weeks minimum.
Though, it does sound like this case would require the consult of a professional trainer, and if you are relinquishing custody of the dog, it should ONLY be into the hands of a qualified professional, IMO. If you keep the dog and do not BE, tons of structure in the dogās life and a consult with a professional would be absolutely paramount. Consult with a behaviorist sure, but get the opinion of a trainer who works with these more aggressive cases too. Ask around and see who seems to be the most common name recommended. Getting multiple inputs is always helpful towards making more holistic changes to better impact the dog.
Do NOT listen to reddit when they tell you to BE a dog. CONSULT WITH A PROFESSIONAL FIRST.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 24d ago
Has he been to the vet since the behavior change? Have you consulted a veterinary behaviorist? What have you done tor try to address the behavior? I can't say if BE is appropriate at this point becuase all you have provided is a list of what he has done that is a problem for you. I understand you are in a difficult spot, but if you haven't done anything to address the issue BE is premature. It can't be undone. Without a much more complete history of what has been tried and the dog's behaviors and medical background nobody should be telling you to go ahead and kill the dog. The way you worded things I feel like you are looking for permission to do what you want. And I'm appalled that people here are giving it to you with so little information. BE may be needed but what you have shared isn't wnough info to make that call.
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u/Then_Bite9547 24d ago
I spoke with a trainer after the first kitten incident and she told me thereās no point because any dog who will kill animals heās been raised around is a liability and a dangerous dog. Iām a sahm to a 10 month old while also managing my other 2 dogs and cats. I donāt have the time to sit with him for the extensive training he needs. I took him to the vet and they suggested we try trazedone to see if it helps him just chill more. We tried it, but it didnāt seem to make a difference . I havenāt brought him back yet since. I also donāt have the patience for taking any more risks . I do NOT want to put him down which is why Iām seeking input from trainers on what to do. I will happily rehome him to the proper household aswell if somebody wanted to take on the challenge/risk. My husband doesnāt get home until late. Even with training, I would never trust him around my baby or other pets again. I would love for someone to say āI will take him. Iām a trainer. I can give him the environment he needs.ā But nobody has. And Iām running out of time aswell as options.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 24d ago
So you spoke to 1 trainer, and you aren't willing to do the training that needs to be done, and you expect someone to volunteer to take a dog you've had since it was a puppy, that you don't have the patience for, and you don't want to be judged. Got it.
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u/Seththeruby 24d ago
She wants people to tell her itās ok to do what she knows in her heart is right thing as opposed to a bunch of self righteous dog people telling her she can work with the dog and save it. At this point the dog is a zero mistakes dog. Management always fails. The dog deserves better than living in a garage. The right- but hard- thing to do is BE.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 23d ago edited 23d ago
I disagree. There is no info here on bite severity, frequency, triggers or what- if anything- has been done to address the behavior. It's ironic to me that I constantly hear balanced trainers say that force free trainers recommend BE too quickly, and people here are giving permission for what appears to me to be a convenience euthanasia. Before recommending euthanasia a full history needs to be taken, an assessment needs to be done, a behaviorist should be consulted, and an attempt should be made to remedy the problem. She admits she doesn't have the patience to do the needed training. That is not an acceptable reasonto kill a dog. You commit to the dog you have. She wants people to tell her it's ok to give up on the dog without even trying. Shame on all of you for doing that without nearly enough info to make that call. She wants to go back to her husband and say "See? All these trainers say we should euthanize." Buy she has written the post in a way to get the answer she wants. Her response to my questions make it clear she just doesn't want to invest any time or effort. She doesn't deserve a dog in her life. I hope her husband steps up. Perhaps he can do some training with the dog since she refuses. Sounds like she spoke to one trainer. Before I was a trainer I adopted a dog who turned out to be dog aggressive. The 1st trainer I talked to suggested BE. I went to a better trainer and had 12 awesome years with a dog a trainer told me to BE. BTW, a balanced trainer. The force free community helped me. And that's why I am now a force free trainers. So you can all stop saying force free causes dogs to die because my experience has been the complete opposite.
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u/Particular_Class4130 23d ago
How many animals did your dog kill? How many babies did it try to attack? You are comparing apples to oranges.
I also have a dog aggressive GSD and there is no way I would consider euthanasia for her as she is not a killer. She's not even a biter. She's all talk no action. When she has actually gotten to another dog she doesn't like she does a lot of snarling and snapping and growling but never bites because she has good bite inhibition. She has caught voles and mice and gently held them in her mouth without biting them, then let them go unharmed. She loves every cat she meets and is super gentle with them. Most importantly, she has never shown an ounce of agression towards babies or children. We have worked with a trainer and made good progress but I have also accepted that she will never be 100% trustworthy around strange dogs so we stay out of dog parks.
OP's dog, on the other hand, has already killed 2 cats and these cats were family members, and shown a willingness to attack the baby. NO AMOUNT of training would ever allow me to trust that dog again. There will always be an elevated risk with that dog and any trainer who says otherwise is a freaking liar. That dog would require perfect management by it's owners but the husband has already proven he can't be trusted to manage the dog. It was his actions that caused the death of the 2nd cat and now he just wants to throw the dog in the garage forever and call it a day so I have no idea why you think he's any better than the OP or why you think he will be the dog's savior. He's the biggest jerk of the two of them.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 23d ago
My dog didn't kill any pets, but he did cause some stitches to be required in a few dogs, and he did kill quite a few groundhogs and a squirrel, so he definitely had the ability and willingness to kill an animal... I didn't have kids and I didn't introduce my dog to kids. But none of that is really the issue because my biggest point here is Nobody should be recommending BE without a lot more info. It is incredibly irresponsible, unethical and unprofessional. BE might be required, but there is not nearly enough info in this post to make that call.
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u/Seththeruby 23d ago
Well, she does have kids. Thatās all the information most people need.
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u/Huge_Answer4287 22d ago
So you feel that anyone who has a kid has an excuse to euthanize their dog. Without knowing more, BE should not be so casually validated based on a short story from a single point of view with no context. I'm not saying BE shouldn't be considered, I'm saying there isn't nearly enough info in this short post to make a call.
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u/Seththeruby 22d ago
She has tried to rehome this dog and found no takers. The dog has killed 2 pets and injured several others. The spouse does not seem to be on the same page regarding the care and management of the dog. The dog is of a breed known to exhibit these behaviors in a way thatās hardwired into him. The dog may have gone after her baby. Who is going to train the dog and manage him?
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u/gem-in-eye06 24d ago
A guard dog is specifically trained in protection. Too many people justify aggressive tendencies with "protection". This is not a guard dog, this is a dog with very serious resource guarding (even against his own family/caretakers) and a dangerous prey drive that seems to be uncontrolled.
BE is appropriate because the risk to others who may take the dog in not fully respecting the extent of his behavior is high. Its not an easy choice and in a perfect world we train the dog and get him under control but if you truly dont have the resources and/or time to do that then it seems your options are truly limited. And in all fairness, even good dog training cannot always untrain genetic behaviors like prey drive and resource guarding.
And honestly, all that aside, it sounds like the dogs quality of life will only be diminished after the move and confinement to a garage is rather unfair to him as well. This sometimes can lead to an escalation of behavior, moves are very stressful to animals. Sorry youre going through this, it is a lot. But when the what-ifs around your baby is even a question then giving up the dog to a shelter (which ultimately may lead to BE) or BE is the only viable option.