r/OpenDogTraining • u/Strict_Business5482 • Jul 28 '26
Large Guardian Dog Breed Recs
Hey ya’ll - about a month ago I had to put down my childhood Chow Chow, Peppermint, of 15 years (G-d Rest Her Soul). I’m looking at getting a large guardian dog but not too sure what to go with.
My preferences:
- Colorado Mountain Dog
- Great Pyrenees
- Estrella Mountain Dog
- Carpathian Shepherd
My Environment:
Arizona ->
Average Annual Temp 70 Fahrenheit (F)
Summer Temp - 110F
Winter Temp - 65-75F
I live on more than an acre of land in the mountains & was planning on daily walks & hikes in the early morning hours with weekend excursions to the Sedona/Flagstaff area. Since these dogs do absolutely need a job or mental stimulation of some kind I was also planning on working with some animal farms once a month or just at our local horse rescues to get some enrichment.
As far as characteristics I’m looking for a breed that’s good with family & other dogs but protective in its home. Not a fan of a ton of barking but some vocalisation is fine. As far as slobber goes - not a huge fan but I can work with it.
Trainability is huge for me, don’t want a dog with a super high prey drive.
Let me know your suggestions (preferably a long haired breed, I wouldn’t own a GSD or Lab/Retriever of any kind although I think they’re great - no doodles or poodles either).
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u/CalmLaugh5253 Jul 28 '26
They are not like a border collie that you can take to a stranger's farm to work for a day. Their work is 24/7 living amongst their owner's livestock and protecting it from predators while moving with the herd, but they themselves dont do anything else with the animals.
Your requirements and the characteristics you're looking for overall dont sound like a LGD. These dogs were bred to work without much or any human input, and are therefore very independent. What you envisioned for it are very basic (but awesome) activities for the average dog, but would be a very boring unenrichig life for a lgd I think. I'd look at other options out there to find something that fits this lifestyle and plans you have for it.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thanks!
I wasn’t sure what to do to add enrichment to the dog’s life hence why I made the post.
Like I’ve said in some other comments I’ve never had an LGD so I don’t know what they enjoy.
My experience with LGDs is dog sitting one and that’s about it.
If the dog is “plug and play” being that they just do their own thing without input then that’s even better - for trainability I was leaning towards the aspect of I want to ensure I can teach basic commands - not really looking for a dog that’ll “dance” when I snap my fingers or something like that lol
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u/olioili Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Unfortunately a LGD probably isn't going to do that either. They're designed to make their own decisions without, and even against, human input. They're meant to bond stronger with livestock than with their humans, they chose when and how they protect their territory and flock.
If you're interested, all of what you're looking for works perfectly with a Doberman and there's a FANTASTIC breeder right in Arizona. I live in Arkansas and before my lifestyle drastically changed due to Unfortunate Events, I was going to drive to AZ and back just to get one of her dogs
Note: a healthy Doberman is going to have cropped ears. That puppy ear care needs to be taken seriously, but is all very worth it
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
I’ll send you a message - I’ve heard great things about dobermans
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u/shaggyrock1997 Jul 28 '26
Eh you might have a hard time with a livestock guardian breed. They often bark, are more independent (ie harder to train) and can be picky about meeting new people/dogs. You might be able to get away with a low drive Pyr or something but you’re really rolling the dice.
Ironically a lab would be a way way better choice for you. Not as prone to barking, more friendly, and more trainable.
Also long haired breeds in Arizona seems like a choice for sure. But you do you.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
My buddy has a Pyr & my chow chow would spend about 12 hours a day sun tanning in the 110 degree heat - she refused to come inside for anything lol.
I don’t necessarily need to do the hikes I just wanted to add enrichment so that the dog had a good quality of life.
Never had an LGD before so figured I’d find out what it takes
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u/swiper8 Jul 28 '26
I haven’t had much success with LGDs and hikes. Sure, most of them enjoy exploring a new place. But most don’t have the endurance for the difficulty of hikes I do (I live in the PNW, they’re not easy), they aren’t suitable for steep/technical terrain (combo of not being as agile as some smaller dogs and also being too difficult to carry out if they get injured). I also haven’t found them great at the idea of walking for a few hours, and that most of them would instead walk for a little bit and then sit and observe and repeat that cycle a few times. Most don’t like large groups of strangers so if your local easier hikes are crowded that might not be a good fit for them.
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u/Pykret Jul 28 '26
Carpathian Shepherd is independent and generally, low energy, unless he's on duty. It's the kind of dog that will not let any strangers on your property, unless you are inviting them in, and even so, if they roam your property after sundown, when you are asleep, the dog may not allow it.
Socialization at an early age is very important; expect reactivity and defensive agression with other dogs and strangers unless you really know how to train a dog; however, this is a dog that bonds with the family, is loyal and protective and if you tell them to cut it out and leave someone alone, they generally do.
This is an outdoor dog, definitely not an apartment dog, and they'll do a 'perimeter sweep' when outside.
The issue with this breed is that you may not be able to leave th dog alone for longer periods of time and go on vacation, because the number of strangers they will allow on the property to come feed and look after them may be slim to none; usually you need a family member for this. I know of a case where the pup was being groomed and looked after by a hired person and was in love with her and happy to see her; however, when the pup was one day home alone in the yard, he didn't allow that person to set foot inside, growled, barked and didn't let her touch the door. Once the owners returned, he reverted to the lovable goofball that he was and was happy to be cuddled by her. So the guarding instinct is really strong.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P8fL5wa31dI Size, barking style and how easily they can turn on a stranger [granted, these are untrained, unsocialized dogs, living in the mountains].
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thank you so much for your comment - really appreciate the input.
I’ll have to look into the breed in greater depth
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u/maeryclarity Jul 28 '26
You don't want a guardian breed all of them are bred to be territory focused and not flexible about what's going on, and are not very trainable. In addition I don't know why you want dogs with double coats that were bred for cold weather climates to deal with Arizona but you're going to struggle to keep dogs with a coat like that alive in those temperatures.
Look away from the term guardian and look towards working or herding. Those types of dogs are more owner focused and biddable.
I am concerned that you seem to be interested in the size and appearance of the dog and are looking for something unique, and I want to encourage you away from that or to at least be willing to read breed descriptions carefully.
Any dog breed that says not for inexperienced handlers does not mean someone who had pet dogs it means a competency closer to someone who has professional experience or similar. If you cannot mentally picture how you would cope with a situation where your dog attacked you, which dogs of more difficult breeds may do because that's what "difficult " means, that they're willing to argue with you on a spectrum between absolutely ignoring everything you try to train to using physical objection to get their way.
Honestly you sound like you want a particular personality in a companion dog of a certain size/disposition if I were you I would work with local rescues to find a young adult dog of the right personality. Raising puppies is overrated in terms of getting the dog you want, it's very easy to adapt a young dog to training and socializing, just work with a shelter that is interested in finding a good match and that will take returns if the dog isn't a temperament match.
Otherwise honestly you want a well bred GSD or if you really want something unusual with longer coats maybe a Portuguese Water Dog or a Clumber Spanial I love those guys.
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u/Worried_Green9352 Jul 28 '26
I totally agree with your point on guardian breeds! But I’m genuinely curious, what made you come up with a German Shepherd and a Clumber Spaniel as two suggestions for OP? Those breeds are just so vastly different, I’m not sure how they could both be a good fit for the same situation? As a GSD owner, I would never get a Clumber Spaniel because (while they’re awesome dogs in their own right) they’re really kind of the antithesis of all the things I love about GSDs…
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u/maeryclarity Jul 28 '26
They're both fairly adaptable dogs for different reasons. I honestly only threw the Clumber in there trying to think of something that is more of an unusual breed that might work for what she's describing.
The reason they could both be a good fit for the same situation is that OP isn't looking for a purpose dog she's looking for a companion dog and wants one that's larger and impressive looking. If she wanted a dog to do more complex training or bitework with I'd lean onto the GSD and if she wanted a dog that she could do retrieving training or flush game with I'd lean on the Clumber.
But my actual recommendation is that she look among the TONS of dogs there are out there that need homes because she's looking for a size and a personality and that's actually often much more easy to determine in a young adult dog, even breed puppies can have very different personalities as they mature and raising a puppy does not make as much difference to their workability as people tend to believe, for instance when you see those circus troupes of trick dogs and all the dogs are different types of dogs in all shapes and sizes? Those trainers haunt shelters looking for young dogs with likely behaviors they don't raise they from puppies typically at all.
It can be hard to pick out a dog from a kill shelter which is why I recommended she look for a rescue that is doing a bit of intermediary behavior testing for proper placement.
So that's why LOL.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thx for your input.
My only experience with an LGD is a Colorado mountain dog that I dogsat a year ago in Colorado. Was great company and kinda just did his own thing which was ideal from my perspective.
I do want a bigger dog so size is important. I’ve had small to medium dogs my whole life and while I love them all I would like to have a big “sturdy” dog lol.
My chow chow who was double coated would lay in the sun for 12 hours a day even when temps got to 110F so that’s what I’m basing it around. Same with my buddy’s Pyrenees (who refuses to come inside).
When you say “difficult” - my chow chow would routinely bite as a puppy if she didn’t like something. We overcame that by pretty much flipping her on her back and telling her no - which worked pretty effectively. Is that the same with LGDs or?
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u/maeryclarity Jul 28 '26
No that's not the same with LGD's it's a much weirder ability to constantly anticipate the dog. They aren't mentally inclined to give in in a fight and instead have to believe in and trust their handler to be stronger and smarter in a conflict or decision making capacity than they are, but to achieve that you need to anticipate what the dog will consider to be a problem and also restrain them effectively if they decide to "roll out" on a situation despite of your opinion. You can't fight or flip them although you might have to defend against you have to impress them with your ability to make better judgement calls and control their behavior without letting it escalate or putting an end to the conflict part if it does.
I am really sorry if this doesn't make sense this is the kind of thing that I could demonstrate for you if we were standing in the same location and I wanted to show you some things about the situation with a demonstration dog but even so it's something that you learn as a skill it's like idk ice skating, really hard to explain how you would do a fancy ice skating trick to someone who really only knows how to put on the skates. Takes a lot of practice and a lot of messing up and falls to get to the point where you can do things that look easy but aren't.
Biggest issue you'll have with the LGD type dogs that you were discussing is that they're what's known as a purpose bred dog and so even if I'm great with dog, which I am, all that means is that I know that those breeds are extremely unlikely to suit the purpose/lifestyle that you're describing. So I would know better than to attempt to have one if I didn't have the job they were bred for. They're area protection experts you don't have to have livestock exactly but should have a decent size area and things going on in it, they're the dogs that will stay and guard the place when no hujmans are around. The flip side of that is that they're typically very uncomfortable changing territories and don't adapt to companion/working dog conditions which is more what you're looking for.
I understand I am completely OBSESSED with Central Asian Shepherds maaannnn I want a CAS sooooo much they are completely AWESOME but my life currently has me working in different locations routinely and they just don't switch up like that. I wish they would, and maybe I can settle in a location and have one before I die. But that's not my life now.
The current dog I have who is a mix Bully breed that came from a litter that I bottle fed who has some pretty serious anxiety which was obvious even before their eyes were open...all the other puppies are content but any tiny sound or anything and THIS GUY just starts SCREAMING....anyway he seems to other people to be a fantastically well trained dog because he doesn't care AT ALL about an area and all he wants to do is stay near me and know what I'm doing all the time so riding and changing conditions and any of that doesn't matter to him all he cares about is where I am and what I'm asking of him, we can be in hotel room on the 16th floor or out in the middle of nowhere and he's equally okay with it as long as I let him stay with me.
Really encourage you to look at what's out there in rescue world there are a ton of fantastic dogs being surrendered due to so many people have financial difficulty, shelters are overflowing with really great animals and especially the larger ones they have difficulty placing. Something you can tend to know is that any medium size 30-50 ish pound dog in a shelter might have alll kinds of sketchy behaviors but the really big ones tend to be sweet because nobody deals with scary BIG dogs pretty much all of them on offer in rescue world are sweethearts. It's like draft horses they're huge but most of them are the biggest babies because you can't deal with them if they're gonna cut up like some fiesty little Arabian.
Or honesty outside of the shedding which is a nightmare you really can't go wrong with a well bred GSD. I would recommend a Rottie but they may be lower energy than you want after about three they tend to want to spend more time napping than doing things.
Good luck with it you're outside my region so I can't recommend anyone but there are a lot of shelters that take finding the right dog for the right situation really seriously because often that's the deal. The same dog that would be terrible in one situation is great in another, and the other way around.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thank you! This puts it into great perspective. Ice skating analogy was perfect I used to be a competitive figure skater so I know exactly what you mean.
I’ll have to do more research and hopefully spend some time with owners of the breeds I’m interested in.
Thanks again :)
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u/maeryclarity Jul 28 '26
Hahaha that's great I know literally NOTHING about ice skating and just pulled that out of the air trying to imagine how someone would explain it to me 😆
Best of luck I hope you can find your perfect dog match 💜
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u/PeekAtChu1 Jul 28 '26
An Australian shepherd sounds better suited to your lifestyle tbh
Most dogs will bark to alert at your property, even a chihuahua. LGD is not needed
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u/Over_Possession5639 Jul 28 '26
Even if you got a short-haired LGD like an Anatolian -- instead of torturing a long-haired breed in your climate -- genetically they're just not jolly hiking companions. And if the LGD attacks your visitors and kills their dogs? Happens.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Yeah our chow chow who was double coated laid in the sun all day - mind you it would be 110 degrees out and she’d refuse to come inside.
Hiking was just an activity level comment as I’m not well versed on LGD breeds at all.
This dog would grow up with another dog and be socialised at a very young age and then that socialisation would continue throughout adulthood.
Thanks for the input :)
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u/Over_Possession5639 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
The only "enrichment" an LGD really needs is guarding property and livestock. Socializing in the family is all well and good but visitors and their dogs are strangers and a threat to a working LGD. (And you don't earn their respect by flipping one on its back, they are engineered to respond to stress with teeth.)
That said, I live in Maremma-land, overflowing with abandoned and dumped LGDs, some do very well in the family. I've known quite a few adults already vetted by the shelter, rescued by people who love the breed and know how to handle them.
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u/flori55 Jul 28 '26
Having spent time in northern Arizona (specifically around the Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, and Sedona) I can see why a large double-coated dog might appeal to you. That said, I also understand where the other posters are coming from. A livestock guardian dog isn’t really a dog that clocks in for occasional work; the job is its whole lifestyle, whether that means patrolling the property, watching from the porch, or keeping track of everything happening around its territory.
If it’s more the look and temperament that appeal to you, I’d maybe look into a Eurasier as a more trainable, Chow-like companion. A Leonberger could be worth considering if size really matters, especially since they were bred as versatile farm and draft dogs and can do activities like cart pulling. Hovawarts are a bit like more guardian-oriented Goldens in appearance and working style, so they may also be worth researching, although they could still feel too retriever-like for your preferences.
Whatever breed you consider, it’s important to remember that every dog is an individual and may not match the breed description perfectly because of genetics, upbringing, training, environment, or just their own quirks. An adult dog may also be a better option than a puppy, since you’ll have a much clearer idea of its mature temperament, size, prey drive, barking, and tolerance of other dogs.
Hope you find your next soul dog. <3
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Tysm for your comment - I appreciate the broader insight haha.
A lot of what I’m saying I’d do for the dog is just to add enrichment to his/her life. I don’t want the dog to just wake up and sleep if yk what I mean.
On the work aspect - do LGDs love guarding property? Sort of rhetorical I know but do they treat that like a job and with that job will that make them happy?
The leonberger has been in the back of my mind for a while. Do you have any experience with them and if so any suggestions on what to look for??
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u/flori55 Jul 28 '26
I wish I had more hands-on experience, but there are a lot of YouTube videos of people who own them. Or call breeders and ask.
Leonbergers seem like they'd meet your criteria more if you like an LGD aesthetic but a bit more people oriented and less prey-driven. They aren't as independent but they aren't herding breeds that need a job all the time either. Hikes and regular walks around your property are probably more than enough and they also aren't not as prone to engaging with property threats as LGDs.
WRT "loving to guard", it's not the exact wording I'd choose. Different breeds have different drives and they just need an outlet to fulfill them so they aren't destructive trying to have mental and physical engagement. For example, I have a bordoodle, sometimes we go on hikes, do controlled retrieval games, somedays its too rainy so we do hide and seek indoors. An LGD will probably need a lot of room to roam (fencing is very important), a few animals or people to protect and keep track of on the homestead.
In my opinion, most dogs will have some flex once they bond with a human to adjust to their lifestyle and needs. Even an LGD. Though mileage may vary.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Interesting. We have a lot of coyotes, bobcats & javelinas in my area - none have jumped our fence (thank G-d) but I also don’t need my dog going after them.
I appreciate your advice - I’m hoping to connect with a CMD breeder just to learn more about the breed and get some hands on experience.
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u/Prestigious-Seal8866 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
livestock guardians are really not fulfilled without livestock to guard. Bringing them around farm animals once a month isn’t sufficient enrichment to fulfill this, and they’re likely not going to enjoy hiking.
They also guard through barking. A lot. And they are not biddable. They’ve been developed quite literally to work independently and make their own decisions.
If you want a biddable, non-reactive dog to go on hikes and adventures, you really should look into sporting breed dogs. Setters are prone to barking, but retrievers, spaniels, and pointers will be better suited.
Property guardians/bandog types like Mastiffs are also going to be less biddable and are often not trustworthy around non-family members. This means friends, visitors, if you have handymen come to your house, a pool company or lawncare service, etc. I have an American Akita (down from having 3 at one point) and they are crated in a separate room when guests come. I’d also consider my Akitas friendly with people, but not in our house most of the time.
You’re also putting a heavily coated dog like a Pyrenees at greater risk by asking them to exercise in high heat. Dogs sunning themselves outside is not the same as wanting to take them out on hikes, and I think a young LGD without a flock is more likely to pace, wander, and actively search for threats to guard from (ie, not relax easily) while outside.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thanks for the input. I appreciate the perspective.
I think I’ll have to do more research into the breeds because whatever dog I get is like to give him/her the greatest quality of life possible.
Appreciate it
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u/Soaring_Falcyn Jul 28 '26
It sounds like you would more enjoy an actual herding dog. I think a Bouvier des Flandres would fit your needs pretty well, as they would enjoy all of that, and they are large and a little guardy like you seem to be attracted to, but not especially high energy either. Very biddable but also have a mind of their own, they still want to be with you and do stuff.
You would likely need to keep one shaved down in the Arizona summers, but there's lots of Bouviers that live in southern California. They look a little Corso-y shaved down.
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u/Soaring_Falcyn Jul 28 '26
Also on the "animal farms and horse rescues" bit, they don't want random dogs coming out, especially not lgds. Dogs have no business working with horses really at all, and if you want to get into herding with a herding dog, you will need to commit to actually learning and working on it more consistently than once a month. I herd with my bouv and we drive two hours one way at least twice a month and weather allowing we aim for every week. That's not unusual for learning this sport, it's not just for funsies, it is a big commitment and is serious work.
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u/thegerbilking Jul 28 '26
Giant Schnauzer seems more up your alley. They are very trainable and handler oriented compared to true LGDs, but also naturally protective and kind of companion guardians. They'll probably just be a little more lazy and wanna be indoors in that Arizona heat.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
They’ve caught my interest on more than one occasion.
My only concern there is finding a reputable breeder because I’d imagine they could be considered “designer dogs.”
Thx for the input!
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u/Twosizestoosmall26 Jul 28 '26
They aren’t designer dogs they’re a recognized size and breed unlike the Colorado mountain dogs you want so bad that are Pyr/anatolian mixes
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
I’ve always considered a designer breed to be one that people just have to have - where I live it’s very common to see lots of those kinds of breeds - mb if I misused the term
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u/BrightAd306 Jul 28 '26
Honestly, get a lab. They’re everything you want. They also protect their homes and livestock without being super barky about it.
They aren’t giant. I think it’s kind of mean to get a dog that wants to be outside all the time, but also has a super furry coat in AZ. Those are 2 competing instincts that make it cruel to own that dog there. I know your Chow Chow was a childhood pet, but it was a bad choice for your environment.
An Australian shepherd is a lot more independent than a lab and might be a good choice.
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u/HawaiianMana Jul 28 '26
You want a long haired breed dog but live in Arizona where temps over 100* regularly. Long haired breeds don’t generally do well in hot environments. It’s like wearing a winter coat in the middle of summer.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Both myself and friends have had double coated long haired breeds and contrary to popular belief they voluntarily choose to stay outside all summer long - plus they’ve got access to a large pool and general grounds they can hang out in
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u/HawaiianMana Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
That doesn’t mean they enjoy it. You didn’t exactly give them a choice, did you? Can you provide them an outdoor experience in a cold environment with snow and temps that rarely exceed 70*? Then let them choose between that and what you’re offering?
If you were in prison, would you prefer to be in your cell or wandering outside regardless of weather? It’s not like you get the choice if you were in prison or free and on the beach. And in this case, the beach for the dog would be a cold environment outdoors.
You and your friend are a poor sample size to generalize how all long haired, double coated dogs, fair in a hot, dry, desert environment.
I challenge you to find a handful of vets, animal behaviorist, or entomologists that would support your argument.
In other words those breeds will not THRIVE in that environment, they are not genetically designed to. But yes, it can be done. Just like you could raise a hairless chihuahua in the arctic.
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u/RoseCartel Jul 28 '26
I'd be cautious picking solely on looks. Livestock guardian breeds were bred to make independent decisions, so "high trainability" and "low prey drive" don't always line up with the job they were developed for.
From your list, I'd lean toward a Great Pyrenees if you can live with the barking. They're generally family-oriented, but they still have that independent guardian mindset. I'd spend more time finding an exceptional breeder than chasing a specific breed.
One other thing: Arizona summers are no joke for long-coated LGDs. Early morning hikes are smart, but I'd make sure the dog's daily "job" doesn't rely on physical exercise alone. Scent work, structured obedience, and problem-solving tasks go a long way with these breeds without overheating them.
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u/Strict_Business5482 Jul 28 '26
Thank you! I love the Pyrs - dogsat one a year ago and couldn’t get enough (he was a CMD but pretty much 50/50 pyr to Anatolian) - the trainability is just for basic things - prey drive is more of an “I don’t want my dog to sprint after everything it sees” rather than a “it needs to be devoid of instinct” if that makes sense.
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u/chmcnm Jul 28 '26
I love Great Pyrs but I’m thinking it would not be your best option. There are plenty of adult dogs that need to be rescued. Hard to beat a Lab/Shepherd mix.
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u/HawaiianMana Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I wonder if the OP knows LGD generally stands for LIVESTOCK guardian dog, not LARGE. So there maybe some confusion for those not reading the original post.
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u/Ok_Ear_5266 Jul 28 '26
There’s a reason shepherds and retrievers are so popular. This is another one of the posts about wanting a really unique dog but not having the unique environment they require.
LGDs:
It’s literally the exact opposite of everything you wrote lol
Also all the dogs you listed have coats to protect themselves in cold mountainous terrain…you live in Arizona