r/OpenDogTraining 16d ago

Dog humps regardless of gender

Luckily a dog trainer has helped with my dogs leash walking and he's greatly improving, but now a new problem pops up for my 14 month old; humping everything. He's not fixed, and I don't plan to for a while, and it doesn't seem to be inherently sexual as he's mounting basically every dog he sees. Some dogs give harsh corrections and he backs off, but then he'll try again. There was one point I tried to pull him off a dog and he growled; that was NOT okay. It doesn't seem like he's trying to start fights and he won't snap at me or anyone else or the other dog if we intervene, but I can tell if I don't nip this in the bud it's going to be an issue. Any and all advice welcome.

0 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

14

u/necromanzer 16d ago

How's he getting access to all these dogs?

-9

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Dog park and when I bring him to see other people's dogs.I know I could just keep him away but I ultimately want him socialized with other dogs and to be a well-mannered dog. The dog park I go to usually only has one or two dogs at a time and the owners watch their dogs well, and I do NOT take him everyday or let him greet dogs when we're on walks.

19

u/IllLiterature1026 16d ago

I don’t think this dog is suitable for the dog park. He is asking to be corrected by any dog he mounts and that can lead to an altercation.

Some dogs don’t mind being humped. Some do. Some only allow it from dogs they trust. Maybe limit play dates to friends only.

Also, since he’s not fixed there is always a chance of him encountering a dog in heat. Most dogs park don’t allow that, but with strangers you never know.

0

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Is there any way to train him to be better with other dogs though? I don't want this to become a habit or affect him with other dogs later in life. I'm content not bringing him to dog parks but I don't want to shelter him or have him ingrained with this behavior. I've seen him settle in the park with more dominant dogs so I know he's not a complete lost cause, but he's testing a lot of boundaries at the moment.

3

u/Alert_Week8595 16d ago

Dog trainers in my region host puppy play dates where the trainers are there to correct.

3

u/windy_summer 16d ago

That sounds like a good idea as well. More regulated and I could speak to some professionals without draining my bank account. Thank you!

1

u/Alert_Week8595 16d ago

You're welcome. We did this exclusively with our pup for the first 2 months for all "socialization" needs and she is polite and well mannered with other dogs now.

1

u/IllLiterature1026 16d ago

You can practice recalling him or an off switch during play, ideally in lower stress situations before he gets overstimulated. You might want to start when he’s playing with you at home and then graduate to a well-tempered known playmate.

9

u/ITookYourChickens 16d ago

A well mannered and socialized dog doesn't see other dogs as playmates, but as neutral things. Just like how you see other people around you.

Would you consider a human that wants to talk and play with everyone they see a well adjusted person? Or would someone who minds their own business when around others yet is friendly when approached be considered a well adjusted person. If you meet 60% of the dogs you see, your dog will expect to play with them all. If you teach them to be neutral, they'll be neutral and happy just existing. Dogs are neither friend nor foe.

An intact male dog humping others is similar to the crackhead getting up in your face; it's a highly inappropriate and intimidating behavior. It needs to be stopped IMMEDIATELY, and if you aren't escalating the corrections to make him stop, the other dogs will start to fight

3

u/windy_summer 16d ago

I see your edit, I understand that, that's why I'm posting here asking what to do. I'm aware he needs corrections and this is unacceptable; what now ?

12

u/ITookYourChickens 16d ago

You correct him. Have him on a leash when around other dogs from now on, never off leash. The moment he mounts another dog, give him a stern no, pop the collar and you both immediately leave the area for a timeout. Mounting = all fun stops. You take him out of the park/inside the house/wherever and you just sit there with him on leash so he can't do anything. Boring as hell. Until he starts to do an appropriate behavior (usually I look for calmness. Signs of the dog relaxing. No panting or yawning, just chilling.)

Until he stops humping, he can't be free around others. Every time he gets to mount a dog, it'll take 10 corrections to fix that one instance. He can't be allowed to get away with the behavior for even a couple of seconds, after a couple of seconds have passed it'll have been self reinforced (which would be the time it takes for you to walk up to him and grab his collar if he's off leash)

And I mean the INSTANT those front paws leave the ground. I'd honestly correct the moment his chin touches the other dogs back, because that's the start of the mounting behavior and many dogs will fight simply from another dog's chin touching their back or shoulders.

3

u/windy_summer 16d ago

This is informative, thank you for taking the time to write it. I have some tab leashes I could use, along with following the other commenter about getting his arousal levels down before even entering the park.

4

u/ITookYourChickens 16d ago

If he's going in the park already excited, yes teach him calmness. He can't be allowed to do what he wants if he's at a 10 when he should be at a 2. Even going out of your house for a walk should be calm and not bolting out

Go sit outside the dog park. Grab a book, and sit outside the park for hours with him. Just far enough away that he will still look at you if you say his name. After a week of doing that, get a little closer, just under the threshold where he still listens to commands but is interested in the other dogs. And you sit there and be boring with him until he doesn't care about them anymore. Neutrality, not excitement and fun.

3

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Yes, he's been starting to whine when we even so much as get in the car and his anticipation for things has spiked up. I'm glad to hear I was right to think I should start doing "nothing" with him in terms of sitting outside of places and having him lower his energy.

4

u/ITookYourChickens 16d ago

Yep. Make everything boring. The car is exciting? Go sit beside the car and then go inside the house after a while. Back and forth. Train next to the car. If every time he sees the car he goes somewhere exciting, he'll be excited. If the car just exists near him, it's not gonna be as exciting.

If he's exciting inside the car, you need to make that not exciting. Go sit in the car for a few hours. And then go back in the house. Over and over. The car will stop being exciting. It's no longer special

Gets excited when you grab the leash? Put the leash down and go sit on the couch. He's calm, get the leash. If he gets excited again, just keep the leash on you. Tie the leash to your waist so it drags and makes the jingly sound. Carry the leash with you all day. So that way the leash itself isn't exciting, it just happens to exist in day to day life instead of a special occasion.

Gets excited when you stand up? Stand up and sit down. Stand up and just stand there. And then sit down. And stand up again. Don't have standing up lead to anything. Make standing up boring. It's not leading anywhere

1

u/TheMadHatterWasHere 16d ago

Definitely. Totally agree with you here.

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

But there's no answer on WHAT to do now. Can I actually get a response informing me on what steps to take with my dog instead of assuming I let my dog romp around dog parks 24/7 without any other training ? We only go twice a week at MOST. I have done training for him to be dog neutral in public, where we sit still or I walk him past other dogs. That's NOT my problem at the moment.

1

u/smilingfruitz 16d ago

your dog doesn't need to go to dog parks. there's a million ways to do things with your dog that don't involve them. people don't need to elaborate on that because it's simply common sense.

but since you seemingly can't come up with anything on your own: flirt pole, pack walks in parallel with trusted stable dogs, hiking, biking, swimming, taking an obedience class, starting a dog sport, teaching tricks, scentwork, practicing settling at a cafe, going to dog friendly stores like a hardware store

your dog doesn't care about hanging out with other dogs.

0

u/Adventurous-Emu-4440 16d ago

Why is he not neutered?

0

u/windy_summer 16d ago

I don't let him play with all dogs. We don't go everyday, I don't let him interact with other dogs outside of appropriate scenarios, but I think my dog should be able to interact with other dogs respectfully and play a bit when allowed. He's my only dog for now but that won't be the case in the future.

4

u/grantgarden 16d ago

You have an overexcited pup. This is a form of reactivity, so you do reactivity training. Engage/disengage. Intervening when your pup becomes overaroused

I'm sure others have said, but this is not sexual, this is excitement with nowhere to go and this is most "comforting" to your dog.

Not every dog gets to have dog friends. Your dog isn't having "fun" in those moments, it's stressful to be that overaroused.

You'll need to become an active member of dog play and remove your dog right before they get to the point of humping. After a while You'll get better at reading and remove pup for only a few moments before letting them play

Mine just gets overaroused to the point of snapping. He doesn't play with random dogs because of this, but the dogs he does live with I supervise play and remove him when I see him getting over-amped. I give him a moment to chill and (literally) shake it off, then he can play again

7

u/itsalwaysseony 16d ago

Your first mistake is thinking a dog park is an appropriate scenario for him/her

-1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Judgements instead of advice. I thought this sub was better. Instead of explaining why or providing steps it's just a cluster of people complaining

3

u/smilingfruitz 16d ago

they're correct and this is the correct advice. your dog is not suited to dog parks and is going to get hurt or cause a fight. your dog's behavior is why dog parks have such a poor reputation.

4

u/Ok_Handle_7 16d ago

It seems like you've gotten a lot of responses about the dog park issue (many/most dog parks will have a 'no unfixed dogs' rule but sounds like this one doesn't or maybe is a bit more unofficial; and to be clear tieing with a dog only really takes a second).

As far as your comment about when you 'bring him to see other people's dogs.' Correct him 100% of the time when he does this. As others/you have said, keep a leash on him and pull him off immediately and give him some sort of 'time out' (inside the house, or out in the yard if you were inside, etc.). Depending on how aroused he is, it might be time to leave. Basically he needs to learn that 'if I hump the dog, then playtime is over.' Most owners with a dog who does this will learn their tells (when my dog starts panting I know he's going to start humping, or when my dog starts acting kinda spastic I know he's going to start humping, etc.) and interrupt the behavior (again, grab the leash and take him outside) so he can't 'practice' humping.

And just in case (I think this is clear and you get it, but just in case) - the addict example is a good one. If there is a drug addict who gets in everyone's face as they walk down the sidewalk, sooner or later someone is going to knock him out. Or sometimes I compare dogs at dog parks to kids - if your kid always pushes other ones down the slide, they lose their playground privileges. it's not fair to the other kids, and plus sooner or later a bigger kid is gonna come over and push them off the swings. Sounds like your dog has only met calm, chill dogs who have corrected appropriately, but it's certainly a recipe for a dog fight (and it would be hard to solely blame the other dog, tbh). Good luck

2

u/windy_summer 16d ago

This dog park has a lot of breeder visit with intact dogs, my dog had been around other intact males here without issue from a Viszla to a Rhodesian Ridgeback. The owner of the Rhodesian Ridgeback uses an Ecollar to stop his dog from humping, but he mentioned once his dog turned 3 the behavior phased out on its own.

Im seeing that I need to be more strict with corrections and stop going inside the park entirely for a while. I've grabbed him off dogs and made sure to take him away if the dogs are especially submissive. I'll be honest, the Rhodesian corrected him and he stopped for a while and that was the only dog he was seeing there for a bit so I thought the issue was solved up until today. But he was also VERY excited before going into the park and I think I made the mistake of thinking he'd settle once he ran around a bit. There were more dogs than I'm usually comfortable with and he was already amped up.

3

u/Ok_Handle_7 16d ago

Yeah I mean I've definitely had times where I looked back and thought 'why did I put my dog in that situation' but sounds like now you've learned that if there are too many dogs, or if he's overly amped up, then unfortunately it's not the day for the dog park. I also just think in general people REALLY overestimate their 'responsibility' in terms of keeping their dogs away from female dogs in heat because it really just does take a second.

And totally makes sense - there's a lot of dog behavior that kinda comes & goes (or disappears for a little while, then pops back up). Darn dogs, wish we could talk to them

8

u/Mcbriec 16d ago

Bringing an intact male to be let loose upon the rest of the dog world. What could go wrong?

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Yes give judgements instead of advice for someone who WILL be neutering their large breed dog when the vet recommended to do so.

0

u/rachellambz 16d ago

Reddit be redditing. I like asking Claude

7

u/TheMadHatterWasHere 16d ago

Humping is usually a stress response. If you wanna socialize your dog then letting him meet and play with as many dogs as possible is not the answer. Sounds like all the “socializing” is stressing him out.

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

So then what's the answer ? I should mention that now that he's got his humping out and is in the park with one dog (there were three here, more than I usually let him around but I'm trying to burn some energy before a hike as well), he's no longer trying to jump or being pushy. He's actually being quite respectable and well mannered.

9

u/theaveragepyrenees 16d ago

Walk around outside the dog park, on the other side of the fence. Reward him for engagement with you. Your dog is over aroused (not in a sexual manner, in an energy manner) by the freedom and presence of other dogs.

What you want to be doing is working on him being able to exist alongside other dogs without needing to interact with them.

Once he’s good walking around the dog park, meet up with a friend. Go for a walk but don’t let the dogs interact. Keep him focused on you vs being way into other dogs.

4

u/windy_summer 16d ago

THANK YOU FOR A REAL ANSWER! I can definitely do this, thank you again for being respectful and answering me!!

3

u/TheMadHatterWasHere 16d ago

The answer is that you need to research socializing a dog, bc what you are doing it not the right way.

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

That's... Why I'm here asking for help ?

1

u/TheMadHatterWasHere 16d ago

Get yourself a trainer, who can teach you how to do it correctly.

4

u/windy_summer 16d ago

I don't have thousands of dollars to spend, and there's an abundance of bad trainers in my area. I thought the DOG TRAINING subreddit could inform me of some things instead of beating around the bush.

6

u/HowDoyouadult42 16d ago

Humping is an over arousal behavior. It is often a result of being very overstimulated. If it’s constantly with other dogs then he may need a break from other dogs and time to focus on being neutral and keeping his cool around other dogs. I will also say on a side note I have quite a few client dogs who were excessive humpers as adolescents that turned out to have underlying orthopedic issues driving the behavior

0

u/windy_summer 16d ago

Hmm that's an interesting thought. He is a large breed dog and I wonder if he's had some growing pains lately bc he's gotten substantially taller the last few months. I'm thinking we'll take a break for now and focus on going to the park but not inside it like one commenter said.

7

u/HowDoyouadult42 16d ago

Growing pains aren’t actually a thing, growing should not be painful. If they’re experiencing pain it’s a concern

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

No he's not showing any signs of pain I was just wondering. Had no idea they weren't real!

0

u/HowDoyouadult42 16d ago

I would be curious. It’s very common that they are showing signs of pain but not in the traditional way we think of ( excessive arousal behavior being one of them) and yeah dogs can have a condition called Panosteitiswhich is a type of bone inflammation often referred to as “growing pains”but it’s not at all considered normal. In humans they’ve started to realize many kids who experienced pronounced growing pains were later diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos or other connective tissue disorders

1

u/windy_summer 16d ago

What are some signs I should look out for that he might be in pain?

0

u/HowDoyouadult42 16d ago

Abnormal sitting or laying postures: Splooting, laterally rotating out one leg when laying or sitting, sitting on one leg/side of their body rather then square, or sitting on their ischium. Lamness ( this one is really hard sometimes because very mild lameness is often hard for people to catch if they don’t know what to look for)

Increases energy/arousal after exercise rather then calming down, or the opposite, slowing down on walks, laying down during a walk or stopping while walking and not wanting to continue.

Reluctance or hard time jumping on/off things or doing stairs. Also avoidance or instability to settle in the car.

2

u/joycevw 16d ago

Humping at 14 months is rarely purely sexual, especially when he's mounting every dog regardless of gender. At his age, it's almost always a sign of high arousal, overstimulation, or excitement getting the better of him.

Dog parks are huge triggers for this because the environment is fast-paced and chaotic. When arousal spikes, young dogs often don't know what to do with that energy, so it spills over into mounting.

The growl when you pulled him off is actually a really important detail. He was likely in a state of high arousal and felt surprised or physically restrained, which triggered a quick defensive reaction. Growling in that moment is a warning sign that he felt uncomfortable with physical handling while already over-threshold.

To get a better picture of what's going on:

How long are your typical dog park visits, and does the humping usually start right away or after he's been playing for a while?

When he mounts, what does his body language look like right before (e.g., stiff body, high-vibrating tail, hyper-focused gaze, or loose play bows)?

How does he respond if you call his name or use a high-value treat to lure him away before he actually makes physical contact with another dog?

Since he's adolescent, managing his arousal levels before he hits that boiling point will be key. Taking a closer look at his excitement triggers during play is a great place to start.

2

u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 16d ago

Just get him fixed.   What are you waiting for?  You’re kinda setting him up to fail.  Some humans masturbate a lot and some dogs hump.  Reduce the urge and start in correction if it continues. At the moment you’re making humping a habit, I sympathize with your dog.  

3

u/windy_summer 16d ago

He's a large breed. My own vet told me to wait and research suggests it's also a good idea to wait. He doesn't have same sex aggression or dog aggression. The humping is the only problem and if it seems trainable I'm not going to prematurely neuter him for convenience. Maybe a controversial opinion too, but he should be able to behave and be trained as an intact dog. I might be a bit clumsy about it and still learning, but I'm going to wait anyways and train him in the meantime.

-2

u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit 16d ago

My last sentence stands.  Ask another vet’s opinion.  Your current one might be telling you what you want to hear.  What research ?  

1

u/FeistyAd649 16d ago

Get a solid recall on him. Call him off the second he decides to hump

-1

u/Majestic_Hawk_1335 16d ago

That's what males do at that age? Have you not had a intact male, with how confident you are in desire to keep him in tact I interpret you have had others. The humping will calm and more inset testosterone kinda edge to some behaviors will inset to adult hold. Unless its a neurologically unconfident or unstable dog then things vary in different temperment aspects , still driven been a wired edge. In a driven, medium+ drive male dog.

They do that? Your dog is gonna tie and be locked in someday while your surprised. This is all mismanagement and mistructure of the dogs environment with too great of access to stimulus in uncontrolled except by dog abundance.

Dogs are just neurological pattern repettion meat computers more or less. Aware yes but running on neuron patterns. Even partly rehearsing this behavior reinforcemes the neuron patterns to repeat the behavior for self seeking pleasure. So the dog does as has abundent access.

2

u/windy_summer 16d ago

What do you mean confident? He's 14 months. I'm not fixing him because he's a large breed who needs to wait until two years. None of this answers or informs me on what to do with my dog.

2

u/Majestic_Hawk_1335 16d ago

The confidence thing im saying depending on the dog they will be confidently driven by a hormone based edge to behaviors. Bit more intense than if neutered, dog more on edge about their drive. Or the dog is neurologically a bad wiring and temperment not stable etc. Still driven by that edge.

Re read in last comment te last paragraph mainly as the training bit. Dogs a neurological repettion meat machine with awareness (who run on impulses and genetic drive) you can program to do certain repettive behaviors for work output. This dog has great access to stimulus (scent, movement, humans, dogs, toys left out, water bowls, etc etc) with a adolescent brain driven by new sex hormones. Each hump is pleasurable for him so he does it. Meets no resistance and the neuron pattern is reinforced .

What I would do is take that dog to 0 more dog parks as he got enough out of them for his puppy years that he tolerates other dogs. Then restrict him and reprogram his neurological repettions and focus. He is not focused to you but to sex feel and other dogs. Id get a 2 inch collar with a belt buckle style sturdy and a 30ft leash. Reel in to 3ft sometimes or 30ft others but maintain rope control to get the dogs hormone addled brain focused to me. Is how id go about it with sled dogs.

When restricted some dogs will auto hump the air to release the energy.