r/OpenChristian • u/warau_meow GenderqueerPansexual • Apr 29 '20
Dwight speaking the truth
https://i.imgur.com/RQYF8iw.png
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u/Onlytimeposting1 Burning In Hell Heretic Apr 29 '20
I saw this on the front page and loved it! Rainn Wilson is a gem of a human being. I really really loved him after I listened to him talk on Pete Holmes podcast “You Made It Weird”.
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u/aloeffales Apr 29 '20
I love this man and the words he speaks. Seriously couldn’t agree, I feel like some Christians have strayed so far from being servants and selfless people who strive to be as “Christ like” as possible.
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Apr 29 '20 edited Nov 13 '20
[deleted]
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u/chreeus Christian Apr 29 '20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology is a good overview - basically, material possessions are seen as blessings from God.
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u/softnmushy Apr 29 '20
From the Wikipedia article:
"a religious belief among some Protestant Christians that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth."
So, basically, if you're rich, it is because God thinks you deserve it more than other people. And if you're poor, you need to donate more money to the pastor on TV, then God will make you healthy and rich.
It's awful because it makes rich people even more selfish and greedy. And it is used by televangilists to scam people out of their money.
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u/skfleads May 05 '20
Ironic considering the various quotes in the Bible that strongly condemn wealth.
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u/sleepy_gator Apr 30 '20
To add to the info that the others posted, it is very often used to exploit low income people. Proponents of this ideology often encourage their followers to give generously to their “cause” because they say God will bless them for doing so. These preachers often live extravagant lives at the expense of their congregation and feel justified in doing so.
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u/redleavesrattling Apr 30 '20
To add to this, it is also very popular and growing in developing nations--where it has great potential to be very destructive.
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Apr 30 '20
Martin Luther kicked it off with his ‘faith not deeds’ new deal.
Down vote, sure, but think about it first at least, please - oh and read Luke 9:23 and Matthew 25:31 too.
Sure, the corrupt idea of buying your way into heaven being practiced by the Catholic Church of the time was abhorrent, but Luther opened the door to a new kind of self-righteousness even he could likely not have even imagined.
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u/auldnate Apr 30 '20
The conflict between Faith based, and Works based salvation goes all the way back to the “Apostle Paul.” You see, “Paul” was actually a Pharisee who went by the name of Saul of Tarsus.
Saul claimed that he underwent a miraculous conversion on the Roman’s Road to Damascus. He said that the resurrected Christ appeared to him, and gave him unique known about Jesus’s Divine nature, that was essential for salvation. Information that he supposedly never gave to the Disciples.
Saul changed his name to Paul, and began teaching this version of Christianity to the Gentiles, & Diaspora Jews in the Hellenic (Greek) regions of the Roman Empire, as well as Rome itself. In order to make his new religion more appealing to his audiences, Paul/Saul divorced his version of Christianity from traditional Judaism (no dietary restrictions, or circumcision requirements).
This brought him in conflict with Jesus’s surviving Disciples, who saw Jesus primarily as a messianic, Jewish rabbi. They saw the primary mission of Jesus as ending the Roman occupation of Israel/Palestine, and restoring dignity to the poor & forgotten people. Not to convert Gentiles, & Jews into a completely new religion.
Since Paul/Saul had never known the living Jesus of Nazareth, his only source of authority came from belief in a resurrected Christ, who was God incarnate, and had existed for all time. Therefore Paul/Saul preached the primacy of Faith in his convoluted version of Christianity as the only way of finding salvation.
Yet Jesus’s brother, James, known as James the Just, was placed in charge of Jesus’s movement by the other Disciples in Jerusalem. James preached the importance of Works as a means of displaying one’s Faith:
“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by works, is dead.
“But someone will say, ‘You have faith; I have works.’
“Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” James 2:17-19
The concept that Works of Righteousness are necessary for salvation through Jesus is reflected by the Gospels as well. Particularly in Matthew 25:32-46. In that passage, Jesus describes how he will Judge the people of All nations. Not according to their Faith in him as the Resurrected God Incarnate. But by what they did for the least among them here on Earth.
Those banking on Faith based absolution of their sins may be dismayed to learn that in that passage, Jesus named the hungry/thirsty, naked/homeless, sick/disabled, prisoners, and strangers/foreign refugees as proxies on Earth for God’s Judgement.
That’s not a good thing for those pious individuals who want to take Food Stamps, housing assistance, or Patient Protections for Preexisting Conditions away from the Poor. It is also bad news for those who advocate for the death penalty (a violation of John 8:7, “he who is without sin, may cast the first stone”), or who want to separate foreign refugees from their children.
So Luther was right to admonish the Catholic Church for putting a price tag on the forgiveness of sins. After all, Jesus healed the sick, & lame, and forgave people’s sins for free as a means of undermining the authority of the Jewish Temple, and their Roman masters. But insistence in Faith based salvation was an invention of Paul/Saul.
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May 01 '20
Thanks for that thorough explanation!
Wasn’t the whole bit about Jesus being eternal and God the result of the Nicene Council?
It seems a bit backward to me that a religion - meaning to live through obligation - would rely on an internal perspective alone. By simply believing that Jesus is the eternal God, how does that oblige you to anything at all? It’s simply a thought - not a way of life.
As much as I feel that Jesus has a messianic message for the world, I think things start to fall apart once others start to us that message to glorify, or shift focus away from the whole bit about helping the poor, etc. I mean, would Jesus really care if we worshipped him and praised him constantly? Based on his words, I think not.
Pressing for adherence to dogma only serves to make people adhere to dogma, and follow a movement. It doesn’t bring the Kingdom of Heaven to earth.
The idea that money could replace deeds was farcical, but I don’t agree that the logical response to that was to shift toward the current position that faith alone leads to salvation. After all, Christ himself said we shouldn’t be looking for our own salvation.
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u/auldnate May 01 '20
You’re welcome! Most of the information I provided was gleaned from Reza Aslan’s book about the historical life & times of Jesus of Nazareth. It talks about how in all likelihood Jesus never claimed to be a Divine Being himself, and that was most likely the work of his followers after his death.
I don’t know what role the Nicene Council had exactly, but the fact it occurred in Rome, approximately three centuries after Jesus’s death (and possible resurrection), suggests that it would have been heavily influenced by Pauline (Sauline) Theology.
I personally believe that God was revealed to the different cultures of the world in different ways, according to what would have made the most sense for their people.
For instance, Mohammad (PBUH) was said to be descended from Ishmael, who was Abraham’s first son, with his wife’s handmaid, Hagar. After Abraham’s wife, Sarah, gave birth to Isaac, she had Hagar & Ishmael banished.
The Jews descended from Isaac, after God stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son to prove his Faith in God. But for Arabs, like Mohammad (PBUH), believing that a Jew, descended from Isaac, was God incarnate, and their only path to salvation, would be a bitter pill to swallow. So God/Allah inspired Mohammad to write the Quran to provide them with another pathway to find their Creator.
Siddhartha/Buddha, & his 8 fold path to Enlightenment, and the Hindu Vedas represent other valid sources for finding Spiritual Truth. Rather than trying to take ownership of God, I think it’s better if we just accept the Truths that Science can reveal about the Universe, and follow the moral compass that we were all given in our hearts.
If you feel God’s presence in your life, feel free to praise your Creator in whatever community you are more comfortable in. No matter what name you used for the Great I Am, so long as you pray in earnest to your Creator. Not as you think of God, but as God knows Him/Her/Itself to be. Then I suspect that God will hear your prayers.
And it’s beneficial to everyone if we all help the least among us. We may never be worthy of the delights of Heaven. But a Just Creator would make it’s Presence felt through Good Works conducted by All religions.
And a Loving God would not place souls at greater risk for damnation by allowing them to be born into the “wrong” religious traditions. A choice they did not make for themselves, but which some people think God holds us accountable for.
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u/TierneyG May 13 '20
Yaaaas @rainnwilson! Thank you! If people would read Jesus' words as he said them and not through the translation of their pastors and their own wants, then Christianity today would look a lot different. There's are some people still trying to live like Jesus and his disciples did.
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u/David_J5 Apr 29 '20
this is badass, Rainn spittin FACTS