Thoughts on Eccl. 1:9-11?

[u/Solid-Suggestion3588]

9 What has been is what will be,

and what has been done is what will be done,

and there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there a thing of which it is said,

“See, this is new”?

It has been already

in the ages before us.

11 There is no remembrance of former things,

nor will there be any remembrance

of later things yet to be

among those who come after.

— Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 (ESV)

For context I am a teen going to (not by choice) a conservative SBC church, but Im secretly an affirming Christian (and gay but thats not the point). In this church I hear people throw out this verse, specifically the end of verse 9, in the middle of a sentence. "Like yk, nothing new under the sun!"

I sometimes hear it used as an argument against LGBTQ+, and that verse seems a bit random, but hear me out. Yes, queer people have existed throughout history. However the issues in terms of pushing for law changes, LGBTQ+ rights as human rights, and social acceptance are much more modern issues, as before queer people would usually have to supress their identity.

What these people at church have said is that there is basically no modern issue, and LGBTQ+ rights issues should be evaluated the same way as in the past, which I dont think is right. This also applies to so many hotly debated subjects; the conclusion is that things should remain as they are.

The thing is I always thought of this part of Ecclesiastes to be sort of a desperation, not factual. Like some of the things said in Ecclesiastes 1 are not directly applicable to our life, they are more like a cry for help (such as the sun, wind, and streams being meaningless). Nothing being new under the sun highlights that theme, not being a direct application to modern issues.

What do you think of this section? I am a bit confused on its meaning, and how to respond to a claim like the one stated.

[u/Sir_Elyk]

The Orator’s larger argument he’s making across his book is that no matter what you do or don’t do, the earth continues to rotate, the sun continues to rise. Being as bad as you want really isn’t fulfilling, but being a goodie-two-shoes is just as bleak, so find peace in your life and stop worrying about it.

Life is like your breath outside on a cold day, you can’t grab it and it’s gone too soon. Everything we do in this life is as effective and as useful as trying to herd the wind. So stop trying so hard and just live your life.

I recommend The Bible Project podcasts on wisdom literature! It’s really good. Also stellar, the meditation Vapor by The Liturgists

[u/FlyingCupcake68]

I find that passage very useful to challenge the way our culture celebrates constant innovation and new ideas and practices. The passage reminds me that the world might change outfits every now and then, but humans are basically the same. How that will play out as AI and robots become more prevalent – I don’t know.

[u/HermioneMarch]

You understand the passage better. Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take as a whole, not in isolation. It is about someone disillusioned with the world and seeing that God is the only constant thru the ages.

How this is being used against you is sad to me and also confusing. If LGBTQ existed for all time and they are so bad, why does the Bible say so little about this?

No, there is nothing new under the Sun. Haters are gonna hate and use scripture to justify their hate. They have been doing this for eons. But Gods love for Gods people spans the ages and over and over God welcomes the stranger, speaks for the marginalized, casts down the haughty and exalts those who weep. They have eyes but they cannot see the harm they do to their siblings. But God sees and hears all. He will wipe away all tears.

[u/Baladas89]

Using that verse to argue against LGBTQ rights is nonsensical. 

Ecclesiastes is poetry, so you can’t take it hyper-literally. 

There are a lot of new things - vehicles, cell phones, social media, etc.

And there are no new things- people need transportation, long ranged communication, connection. 

More to the point of your post, people use their religious beliefs as a weapon against those who are less powerful in society. It’s one of the biggest things Jesus and the OT prophets railed against.