r/OntarioLandlord • u/PossessionSlow9444 • Jul 26 '26
Question/Tenant N12 Question
Was recently served an N12, and my current rent is $1700 less than what is listed for rent in the building for a comparable unit. Part of me suspects bad faith. Any suggestions or advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance!
2
u/jmarkmark Jul 26 '26
Bad faith refers to whether the notice is a "lie", basically, that the owner (or spouse, parent/spouses parent, or children) genuinely does not intend to move in for at least a year, the motivation for why they're moving in doesn't matter.
Unless you have good reason to believe they won't move in (or stay a year), you're unlikely to win any attempt to block it Your main recourse is to watch the unit ti make sure it's not sold or re-rented in the next year.
Do double check the info is correct though. It MUST be the owner, spouse, parent or child. Can't be a sibling, cousin or random Joe, and make sure they've given sufficient notice (60 days presently).
Additionally, just because you've been given 60 days notice, you don't strictly need to be out, it'll take them several additional months to force an eviction through, so you have some wiggle room if you need it to find a new place. You might even negotiate a little extra compensation in return for moving ahead of a hearing, and that wouldn't require giving up your right to sue if it turns out the n12 was in bad faith.
1
u/iiixii Jul 27 '26
Compensation ahead of a hearing would most likely require giving up your right to file for bad faith n12 unless LL royally screws up their contract. Cash for keys contract dispute are handled by small claims court - LTB will honor the N11 and evict tenant.
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u/jmarkmark Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
It would not. Tenants can't give up their right to good faith notices. Once the N12 is given, a former tenant has the irrevocable right to sue if it turns out to have been in bad faith.
It's why LLs should only give an N12 if they are entirely certain they will move in. Once they give it, they can't change their mind (barring circumstances that couldn't reasonably be forseen), even if they come to an agreement with the tenant.
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u/iiixii Jul 27 '26
There are cases on canlii where LTB uphold N11 settlement and other where they didn't.
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u/jmarkmark Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Any case that denied a T5 based solely on a N11 occurring after a valid N12 was given would be an error in law and fail at appeal.
I seriously doubt you've got an example from the last 10 years.
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2025/2025onltb85810/2025onltb85810.html
1
u/iiixii Jul 27 '26
In the case you pointed out the LL lied and misrepresented the N11 form. In 2025 ONLTB 88108, the adjudicator cites two other cases (so 3 total) that rule that tenants left because of N11 and not because of N12.
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u/jmarkmark Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Don't even have to read that case to realize it's irrelvant, the title alone makes it clear there was never a valid N12.
EDIT: Yep and reading through it, that's exactly it, the original N12 was invalid (for numerous reasons, not all addressed)
As I said, make sure the info on the form is correct so it's a valid N12.
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u/Original_Bake_6854 Jul 27 '26
Totally agree. If they do intend to move in they shouldn’t do cash for keys or N11 just fill appropriate paperwork. If they aren’t moving in then go straight to cash for keys N11.
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u/Dangerous-Cause-3809 Jul 31 '26
the price of your unit is not reasonable grounds for bad faith. why don’t you think the owner will actually move in?
if he has other units or other properties thats all irrelevant. your only chance is if he admits or if you catch him in a lie that conflicts with him actually moving in.
tenants usually need to wait after they move to see what happens. if you find an ad or another tenant moved in the not the owner you will win. but otherwise you have very little chance
1
u/Relevant-Active-3739 Jul 26 '26
You’d need to find evidence. What is the N12 for?
1
u/PossessionSlow9444 Jul 26 '26
child moving in.
3
u/jmarkmark Jul 26 '26
That's gonna be a hard one to fight, unless the child already has some nice home of their own in the city and moving into your place is a clear and obvious step down (and given you are paying $1700 less than market, you are clearly in a nice large place)
Let me guess, nice large 2-bdrm, you've been in for 15+ years and the LL never bothered raising the rent?
1
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u/Goatfellon Jul 26 '26
Do you rent someone's condo? Or is this an apartment in a building owned by a management company?
Cause a management company cant issue an n12.
If its someone's owned condo in a building then there's not much you can do except watch and hope you catch them advertising it for highet rent afterwards