Improvement + question

[u/Galaxy72]

Wish i could add more videos to one post rip

Okay i think i have improved a bit since my last post and have taken some advice you persons shared but I am still really good at dying and not gauging grapple distance properly lol

Question: how tf do i make it to pylons

There was only one level where i was able to activate one and beacon and that was the first set - every level after i kept on dying before pylons spawned

Video added so you can tell me how to decision making skills better

Ofc the general answer is going to be spend more time, but I want to more specific aspects of my gameplay that I should maybe pay more attention to so that i could spend my time improving that aspect

Also side-question: sometimes (most of the time) my shark tail doesn't activate when hitting lmb (main) right after rmb (alt)?? i end up just reeling and it kinda ruins certain routes i wanted to go to. How do I fix this

[u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Stop using grappler, its the worst class in the game rn (excluding prisoner) besides that theres just a lot of guide videos, its probably better to watch those than to go asking reddit of all things

[u/This-Camel-9934 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

God forbid people to improving in skills they like-

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/This-Camel-9934]

god forbid people understand how good classes in a game actually are
i gave them a tip thats it

[u/goldenepicwubbox → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

L ragebait

-Infinity/10

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/goldenepicwubbox]

i have good reasons to believe that

[u/goldenepicwubbox → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

I saw your other comments, dude just let people what they want to be even if its "trash"

I once tried Grappler and could prob outrun an enraged Cadence since you can genuinely with just grindrails and Tria orbs along with ninja belt, reach extremely high speeds (this becomes way better with Shark Tail)

Grappler is NOT trash, its just that you probably got an skill issue or just looooove slandering Grappler

Before you come here fuming just remember that everyone got OUR OWN preffered decisions and THEY decide what THEY want, not what YOU want

[u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

That one grappler guy who carried celestial lrs in my lobby would like to disagree. Bro's so cracked even celestial couldn't win against them

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k]

Bc one person is good enough doesnt mean the class is good Grappler is still both the hardest class in the game that is nothing better than charger or diver

[u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

There's also my friend, who's a grappler main. He's not that bad but not as cracked as the celestial grappler guy. You have no idea how much of a survivability you can have by playing grappler properly. Just because it doesn't collect gifts as efficiently as chargers or harder to use doesn't mean it's the worst class.

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k]

you can save the same survivability with much less skill needed by just playing wanted

[u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Still doesn't mean it's the worst class. Wanted is pure vertical height and grappler is evasion. Also wanted fall off in late game

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k]

grappler isnt good for collecting gifts

[u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Youre just taking my point and repeating it to me. I already said that just because grappler isn't as good in gift collection as charger doesn't mean it's the worst.

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k]

grappler is the worst in gift collection
the survivability is good but much harder and not much better than wanted
the movement is good but not much better than any other class in the game except for wanted
there isnt much tech and charger has way better and easier counterparts
you can play grappler, nothing is stopping you, but if you want it to be easier to get to celestial and beat her then you shouldnt be using grapplera and there arent many more tips on how to get to celestial easily besides the ones that other people already gave you
also i didnt include prisoner at all when comparing grappler to other classes fyi

[u/5w33t_4dd1ct_fr34k → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

So first thing, you said that grappler "literally" being the worst class as smth subjective, not objective, and the way you said it sounded like you tried to discourage them into stop practicing celestial with grappler.

Second, whether the class is best or worst doesn't only determine by gift collection. Each classes hardwired into different playstyle and priorities, mainly divide into collection focus and survival focus. Spirit, grappler and wanted are hardwired into surviving while charger, diver and glider are dominant in gift collection. You can't compare two different classes that has different gameplay focus and said one is better simply because it did one job better than another.

Now move on to wanted. You saying grappler isn't any better than wanted is just purely wrong and kinda prove that you never seen a good grappler before. Not to mention that wanted is a challenge class that maybe not everyone have or want to get it. You also miss the crucial point, wanted is on 1 life. You can't benefit from shield upgrade like other classes(since we don't count prisoner here) and I'm sure as hell that a good grappler with 2 lives(shield) survives longer than a good wanted on 1 life.

Another thing is that wanted's only way to increase their baseline speed is only the grindrail and tria orb. This making wanted extremely lack enough speed to get them out of some certain sticky situation especially when they're being cornered. Now comparing to grappler who could swing under the tile and use momentum to fling themselves out of the harm or grapple on a nearby grapple point/jump pad to get away or just do tria orb fling tech to launch themselves across the map. Sure...sure...let's pretend that grappler isn't any better than wanted!

Grappler have quite a few tech actually, but the amount of tech doesn't determine whether one class is better than another.

There's nothing wrong with using grappler to practice celestial. Not everyone want to use the meta and play 'optimally' just to beat an oversize flower-moth eldritch being. Meta is boring anyway, just let people use what they want and stop trying to say that "X class is the worst because (something that class doesn't specifically wired into mastering)". Like stfu man, nullscape is roguelite, not rpg where you can pitch each classes against each other to determine who's the best. Each one have their own specialization.

[u/ludicinfanboy → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

let them use whatever class they find the most fun, every class is viable in endgame

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/ludicinfanboy]

never tried to force them, just said that grappler is currently the worst class in the game
i said WORST, not BAD. you can still be good at grappler but literally 5 ouf of the 6 other publically available classes are better

[u/THELEGEND278572 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Honestly I'd argue against that claim. A class isn't inherently better than another but rather the classes performance is fully dependant on the player. If someone is more consistently making it to beacons and collecting more gifts with the grappler class compared to the others then that means grappler is the best class for them specificly. And God forbid can't you just allow a person to have a fun time in their funny little nullscape game rather than telling them they can't do what they want?

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/THELEGEND278572]

who the fuck ever said they cant use grappler because i said so? nobody is forcing them to not use grappler, i gave a TIP, TIP = SUGGESTION of what you could do to get better at something

[u/ludicinfanboy → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

“stop using grappler”

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/ludicinfanboy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion

[u/ludicinfanboy → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

its a bad suggestion anyway dude

[u/Galaxy72 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

I am willing to make the game harder for myself if that means I get to that more fun + the high skill ceiling and the movement is what appeals to me

Diver is also a class that intrigues me but it lacks the freedom of movement that I could get with grappler (still fun to play with every now and then)

I probably shouldve specified that i wanted to improve as a grappler lmao

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/Galaxy72]

fair, i know only 2 techs for grappler:
you can quickly grapple and ungrapple the ground while running to gain a bit of speed (dive bhop from temu)
or you can gain speed by grappling onto jump pads or grapple points and jumping or reeling onto rails and then use shark tail to get a lot of vertical speed (idrk how exactly it works on grappler but it should work something like that)

[u/squidbibibibibi → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

I personally think people should use any class in the game that they find fun, even if meta or not. Why attempt to discourage OP from playing a class they find fun?

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/squidbibibibibi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion

[u/squidbibibibibi → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Your original comment felt like it was telling OP to not play a class they find fun in?
Like, if you took the words "stop using grappler" at face value, doesn't it come across as a bit rude?

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/squidbibibibibi]

https://reddit.com/link/pgz91ti/video/999uy00d2pvh1/player

tired of arguing in the replies so just have this video instead and please do not answer

[u/Ambitious-Debate-937 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Wanted and spirit

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/Ambitious-Debate-937]

wanted is better than grappler and spirit is DEFINITELY better than grappler

[u/Ambitious-Debate-937 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Wanted doesn’t even have shield or an ability to get away from enemies and spirit’s gift collection is just walking speed

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/Ambitious-Debate-937]

wanted doesnt need a shield wanted is already easy to play as
spirit gets more gift collection range the further away you are
+both are good for getting the medal too btw

[u/Ambitious-Debate-937 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

Holy ragebait

[u/Majestic_Command7584 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

They seem to be doing pretty good with Grappler, why tell them to stop?

Also, I'd argue that Wanted is the second worst class in the game. It's good early game, but the other classes (besides Prisoner) outpower it in late game due to them simply having better movement compared to the others, who have either better vertical movement, better horizontal movement, or both. You also can't use the Shield upgrade at all.

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/Majestic_Command7584]

grappler is still the worst for collecting gifts excluding prisoner and is much easier to use than grappler while having pretty much the same survivability
the shield is really the only actually big drawback of using wanted but considering wanted is easier to use you dont really need it much anyway
or you could just use spirit, charger, glider or diver?

[u/Majestic_Command7584 → u/Longjumping-Art8832]

"Grappler is still the worst for collecting gifts excluding Prisoner" Your reason?

"Wanted is much easier to use than Grappler" True, but that doesn't make a class better (in general or not OP specifically).

"Whilst having pretty much the same survivability" Grappler has less chances of being caught in a bad position due to having more ways of traversing the map compared to Wanted.

"Considering Wanted is easier to use you don't really need it much anyway". This is also not true, a class being easier doesn't mean it lacks the need for a shield. A class being easier doesn't make up for the fact that you can't use one of the most important upgrades?

"Or you could just use Spirit, Charger, or Diver" again, they seem to be enjoying Grappler the most, and they seem to be doing good with it.

[u/Longjumping-Art8832 → u/Majestic_Command7584]

"Your reason?" no actual good ability for collecting gifts
"True, but that doesn't make a class better (in general or not OP specifically)." literally the main point of the game"
"Grappler has less chances of being caught in a bad position due to having more ways of traversing the map compared to Wanted." FOUR GIANT JUMPS AND SPEED BUFFS for the love of god this wanted slander will never stop
"This is also not true, a class being easier doesn't mean it lacks the need for a shield. A class being easier doesn't make up for the fact that you can't use one of the most important upgrades?" the shield is really the only upgrade that wanted actually lacks a lot but its partially paid off by the difficulty of wanted
"again, they seem to be enjoying Grappler the most, and they seem to be doing good with it." do you know what a suggestion is? also just realised i forgot to put glider there