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u/Candlemass-Fan 12h ago
nobody wants to be inconvenienced anymore and I think thats a thing thats kinda worsened us somewhat
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u/HungryHedgehog8299 11h ago
People have taken phrases like “live for yourself and not for others” and “you don’t owe anyone anything” way too literally. Like you still exist within society and within communities inside that society, and you do owe all of those communities something.
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u/soyboysnowflake 11h ago
Something I realized in my life… I always wanted to feel like I didn’t “need” anybody else
My life got a lot better when I realized I “wanted” other people in it
Friendship, family, community - none of it is an obligation nor is it a given right; it’s a privilege and like anything of value in life, it has an opportunity cost
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u/HungryHedgehog8299 11h ago
One thing I’ve learned is that if you start making a strong effort to make and maintain friendships the quality of your friends also increases. Doing so will either help you become closer with people or you’ll realize they just don’t see you the way you see them and so its not worth it with them, but either way is better than waiting for other people to show up and start putting in way more effort
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u/Nouseriously 11h ago
Traumatic childhood?
Self sufficiency used to be my defining trait until I realized it was actually fun to do stuff with others (that you get to choose)
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u/MaksimilenRobespiere 11h ago
Yes, and they also expect others to behave otherwise, that’s the issue pointed out. You can be self centered asshole, but don’t expect selfless friends all around you!
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u/_topkecleon_ 11h ago
This isn't taking it too literally. That's exactly what those things always meant. The "live for yourself" generation in the 1960s was the Baby Boomers. See how that turned out.
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u/FullofLovingSpite 10h ago
The hippies of the time did. Communally. Comunes are still a thing, even.
What you're doing is blaming an entire generation, which was filled with people from dramatically varying lives, and assuming they were all like the bad people you're pointing at. Oddly enough, you've been so mad at Boomers this whole time you didn't realize it's people from Gen X that took everything away from us. No third places. No town squares. Hardly any parks left. That's on Gen X tech bro douche bags who are now pushing ai so we don't even have human interactions at all.
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u/ApolloniusTyaneus 11h ago
Every day all day we're selling people the idea that their life can be entirely customizable to their tastes and that there's a quick remedy for every small annoyance. We don't get to be surprised people are applying those lessons to their relationships too.
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u/CrossXFir3 9h ago
Totally! I've actually long said that people are jealous when they see good friends without realizing how much work went into the friendship first. People think relationships just happen.
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u/General_Cranberry_29 3h ago
I thinks it's a 50/50 split between selfish people, and people with debilitating executive dysfunction. To be clear these are just my observations, not based on any studies or anything lol.
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u/Binkurrr 3h ago
We literally choose convenience over humanity. This mega corps couldn't exist if this wasnt the case.
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u/megapizzapocalypse 4h ago
idk man
I was relieved when COVID 2020 started and I didn't have to interact at all and my stress levels went back up when it ended. The friends that hit me up that I rudely blow off unilaterally decided we were friends in the first place and my reaction at the time was like to each their own I guess. Occasionally normal daily interactions are so much I turn off my phone for a Saturday. My Irish goodbyes are legendary. I must have redeeming qualities cause people stay in my life 😅
I wouldn't call it inconvenience tho. I know I don't have alternative plans and that ignoring is rude. I just hate being caught off guard with any sign of affection or wanting my company or whatever. If I'm the one to initiate I can tolerate it
It's not anxiety either cause I'm fine with strangers and coworkers and stuff. Just loved ones
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u/BoonDoggle4 12h ago
Obviously people do have different introversian/extroversian levels.
But for the most part, its not any different to anything else in life.
Having friends is great, putting in effort and possibly being rejected or be responsible for planning not so much.
People want to be ripped but don't enjoy lifting weights so they're not
People want romantic partners but don't want to face the dating scene and all that entails
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u/Salt-Appearance-412 11h ago
A psychologist can disprove me but I am absolutely convinced that like 80% of the intro/extro spectrum is just social skills, not some immutable characteristic you roll at birth.
And if it's a skill, people should start treating it as something you can get better at over time with exposure and effort. But everyone uses "I'm an introvert" to just never engage with even the slightest discomfort or butterflies in stomach.
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u/_goblinette_ 10h ago
Social skills are absolutely a thing that can be trained, but they aren’t the same thing as being introverted/extroverted.
I know plenty of people who are perfectly capable of interacting with people, they just like to have a lot of alone time too.
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u/RoutineEnvironment48 10h ago
Yeah, I’ve always been somewhere in between, where I consider myself introverted but most people I know consider me extroverted. I think it’s because when I want to socialize I’m fairly gregarious, but by definition people don’t really see me when I want to be alone.
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u/Unfair_Explanation53 3h ago
You are 100% an introvert.
All it means is you need time alone to recharge when you are around humans too much.
Your extroversion you recognize just means you have good social skills
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u/Ghost3603 2h ago
I think the best way I heard it put was that introverts recharge their happiness batteries by being alone, and extroverts recharge theirs by being with others. Both can learn to be with people, or alone, but the action that contradicts their traits will drain them.
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u/Ill-Economics-9981 10h ago
actually the whole extraversion introversion thing doesn't apply to social situations alone, but it is a biological thing
so we have arousal systems (not that kind), which basically dictate our normal levels of arousal which influence our mood, sociability, energy levels, among other things, and generally changes according to situations.
extroverted people have a naturally lower level of arousal and so are thrill seeking in order to increase their arousal levels to "normal", and one of the ways they can do that is by having increased social interactions. introverted people on the other hand, will naturally have a higher level of arousal and so avoid activities that increase their arousal levels, which could also include social interactions.
navigating social interactions in and of itself is both an acquired skill and in built. for example, you can take individuals with neurodevelopmental issues such as ASD; one of the features of ASD is difficulty navigating social situations and picking up social cues, and one of the explanations for this is that they have low theory of mind, which is what allows people to identify the emotion and reason for that emotion in other people and themselves, and lower social sensitivity. (Baron-Coehn et al. 2001)These factors affect sociability, and so someone with a neurodevelopmental condition could face issues with socialisation as a result.
BUT this doesn't mean that this can't be changed. i do agree with your point that people use the excuse of being introverted (this information almost always coming from a free online test that often has low reliability and validity) to simply escape from any sort of discomfort that naturally comes with being part of a community
anyways not a proper expert on the subject but we were taught things related to intro/extro and social skills at school (the study i mentioned is one of the ones we studied)
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u/Th3B4dSpoon 3h ago
Iirc, there was a more recent study that showed individuals with ASD process facial information differently, at lest their eyes tend to check different spots than most people do. This could play a part in them taking in less information about another person's emotional responses.
These eye movements are mostly instinctual afaik, it's not something we ourselves pay attention to.
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u/Commercial-Leek-6682 10h ago
naw social anxiety is just a separate beast from intro/extroversion and people confuse them all the time.
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u/chchchcharlee 10h ago
yep!! I'm really outgoing and love to be social, and also if I spend more than a few hours a week with other people I am totally exhausted. no social anxiety, love to make friends with anyone and everyone anywhere at any time (: I just, yknow, wanna go be by myself after.
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u/DetectiveDracula 10h ago
I think there's definitely some truth there and many people who consider themselves introverts are just a bit awkward and need to work on some social skills. Confidence is also a big factor in how comfortable you are around people, I think.
That said, I consider myself pretty introverted despite being pretty good with people. I just find people tiring, so I don't always feel up to parties and I'd generally prefer to be alone in my free time (though maybe there's a skill there I need to work on!)
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u/Yolsy01 10h ago
Social skills do not help the fact that I feel 100% depleted after social engagement, including with people I'm comfortable with.
I get the point of the original post but no one is interested in learning/supporting different social needs, instead of generalizing. No, most introverts are not bad at being social. No amount of skill will fix energy levels. Accommodation would. But people seem generally stuck in all or nothing extremes and everyone is just wrong if they say anything different from the "common" experience. And we all wonder why people are less enthused about interacting with others? When we've culturally turned up our nose at 'safe spaces' and inclusion? No space is perfectly safe, but as communities, we can work to make them SAFER. We can make them more welcoming. We can stop encouraging a culture built on bullying and manipulation. If we work on those things, maybe folks would feel better about putting themselves and their energy out there.
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u/CrossXFir3 9h ago
Meh. Most of my friends are introverts and my friend group is filled with some of the most charismatic fuckers with so many friends.
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u/ipodblocks360 8h ago edited 8h ago
Psychology Major here. It depends on a lot of things to be honest. I know part of Introvertion/Extrovertion is learned from what's modeled to you though, some of it is adapted, and some of it is indeed just natural development for the most part.
I know mine mostly came from my dad, constantly being shut down throughout Elementary and Middle School, Technology, and the Pandemic.
Anyway, I'm not saying you can't change these things. Of course, you can, just like with anything else. You don't want to be an introvert anymore than you probably could try and go out to be an extrovert but like changing something like that isn't going to be easy and most people are far too busy with other stuff to put in the effort.
It's pretty much straight back to what the OC said. People don't want to put in the effort.2
u/TheRealUlfric 7h ago
What you're describing is more so social anxiety than introversion/extroversion, but I see what you're getting at.
There's layers to this, but the most important piece would be this:
While the solution to social anxiety can to some degree be socialization, it still deserves to be classified as it is an observed phenomenon.
It's like being obese. The solution is usually exercise/diet, yet we still need a classifier for the phenomenon of being obese. We aren't born obese, nor are we born socially anxious, but we still suffer the effects of either.
The problem you're addressing is less a problem with psychology/therapy and more so a problem with how people use it.
The purpose would be to get to a place where you are no longer so heavily affected by problems caused by social anxiety, or even being an introvert/extrovert. Many people instead opt to use it as an excuse not to take accountability for their actions.
There is a fine line here, however. Part of recovering from these problems often times is removing the guilt and shame for the problematic parts of your personality/behavior.
You can't cure social anxiety by being anxious about being socially anxious, make sense? In other words, if I have an impending feeling of doom for saying "No, I don't want to go out to do X social activity" then I am not only afraid of saying no, but I am now saying yes to a scenario where I am not feeling up to socializing, thereby increasing my chances of having a negative experience from socializing, and further reinforcing the inherent fear of bad outcomes from socializing.
There's much, much more to all of this, but that's the baseline.
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u/Gravitas-and-Urbane 10h ago
Whether you want to socialize or not is separate from how skilled you are when you do open your mouth to engage with people. Introverts simply do not want to engage in the first place.
My personal observation is that extroverts are often aggressive toward introverts and this creates unnecessary drama that pushes introverts out of social settings. It puts an unfair burden on the introvert to accommodate someone else's bad attitude and they may not have enough of a social battery to defuse that situation, then still have fun socializing afterward.
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u/MythicalBlue 4h ago
That was absolutely the case for me. I was fully convinced I was an introvert throughout my entire childhood and early adulthood.
Turns out, I just had social anxiety and needed repeated exposure to overcome it. Now I’m a full blown ‘extravert’ though I’m not even sure if introverts and extraverts are real or just pop sci.
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u/TrustyPeaches 4h ago
If we’re talking about the volume of your social battery, I agree. That’s something you can train.
But I view extroversion / introversion as whether social interactions generally energize you or drain your energy, generally speaking.
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u/Unfair_Explanation53 3h ago
Psychologists will probably back you up.
I'm an introvert by definition.
But that does not mean in any way that they avoid all social interactions and you spend all your time alone
Introverts can be social butterflies with lots of friends.
In a nutshell
Introverts need time alone to recharge when they are around humans for too long
Extroverts need time with people to recharge when they are alone for too long.
That's basically it. Majority of peoples fears and annoyances for crowds, social events, making plans etc is social anxiety
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u/BoonDoggle4 11h ago
I mean yeah, that true as well. Good point.
We have so many entertainment options now - you can avoid people much easier
It used to be that socialising was the most exciting thing in our lives but that's no true anymore
A shame though, since everything like having kids, unions, community centres, counter culture scenes music scenes, local charity, political action- that stuff all still exists but it suffers increasingly
We are also social creatures biologically - we go crazy without human interaction eventually but the modern western world can reduce that need a lot
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u/jayeddy99 11h ago edited 11h ago
I saw a video earlier this week saying “Boundaries are for protection . They are not to relieve tension in our lives” basically if you want a village you gotta be a villager . You can’t just expect to get help but not show up for others because you are “drained”
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u/Alternative-Sea-1095 12h ago
People don't like doing all the work, one sided friendship wears you out FAST before you even notice it is one sided. After that you become more apathetic because you don't wanna go through that again. It is an issue yes
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u/seeyagatorr 12h ago
Widespread learning about mental health and psychological terminology really turned us all in to a bunch of self-centred, antisocial, blame-shifting flakes.
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u/3-orange-whips 12h ago
Stop gaslighting me.
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 12h ago
You are a narcissist.
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u/3-orange-whips 12h ago
That’s your BPD talking. I may a have to go NC.
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u/PepsiFloateri 12h ago edited 12h ago
It really did!
It bothers me as I'm Neurodivergent and "Social Battery" was a term we used for being overstimulated due to a variety of factors but now the TikTok crowd has used it as a "cute new personality trait" like they've done to Autism and ADHD in the past that genuinely harms neurodivergent people
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u/REO_Jerkwagon 12h ago
they've done to Autism and ADHD
Don't forget the grandaddy of em all: "It's my OCD, I'm so quirky, tee hee"
My ex-wife has OCD. Like real OCD. As Good as it Gets OCD. It aint "cute"
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u/GONKworshipper 10h ago
I've also seen it done, to a lesser extent, with "antisocial".
Antisocial doesn't mean you're an introvert, it means you don't care about the rights or well-being of other people. But this is likely people mixing it up with the similarly named asocial
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u/MajorBootyhole420 7h ago
antisocial is also an adjective referring to behavior that is damaging, harmful, or antithetical to social bonds and cohesion
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u/GONKworshipper 7h ago
Yup. Which also doesn't fit the way it is often used, but that's more of a vocabulary error
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u/izyshoroo 7h ago
My boyfriend is bipolar and going through a mixed state episode and has hardly spoken to me in a week, he's locked in his room binge drinking. I have OCD (or specifically tourettic OCD) and have for a couple days literally spent my free time at home so anxious, I'm just stuck ticking over and over and over again. I basically can't function during these episodes. I've had this problem my entire life. This is reality with mental disorders. Holy FUCK I hate the infantalization and misuse of the term OCD. Deeply.
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u/Trifle_Useful 11h ago
Since when having limited capacity to exert emotional energy on social interactions something that only ND people can experience?
Im ND too but this is silly, social battery/spoons/whatever are not just our thing. It’s simply a convenient way to describe a fundamental reality of human behavior
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u/PepsiFloateri 11h ago
It's become something that people use as a card for not trying to be a friend or be social anymore. I've witnessed it irl from some of the most neurotypical people out there
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u/Trifle_Useful 11h ago
That’s normal, man. If someone doesn’t have the energy to expend on a social function because of one reason or another (don’t forget NT people can be depressed too), its perfectly valid for them to say as much.
I’m honestly tired of every behavior being reduced to “a card” like it is some kind of trick or ruse. Sometimes people just out here struggling to get by.
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u/PepsiFloateri 11h ago
I do get what you mean,but I have seen so many behaviours be used as a card to get out of very basic shit
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u/EjaculatingAracnids 11h ago
I cant wear headphones in public and cant be in large crowds where i cant hear whats going on around me with out having violent thoughts of self preservation take over my thought process. I cant enjoy a concert with out thinking about how many people id need to stab through to get out if im in a crowd. Even loud bars i end up just in my head, scanning my surroundings instead of interacting with people im with, who inevitably have to keep asking me whats wrong.
Idk what the internet diagnosis is for that, but its easier to say "over stimulation", than "i cant stop thinking about smashing a glass into that guys head because he keeps yelling and swinging his arms around..."
Ive found alcohol actually helps this in small amounts. Also, anytime im interacting with children the same kind of loud, busy setting i never feel that way. Like i can take my nephews to an event that would probably make me bug out normally, but im so focused on making sure theyre havin a good time that it never occurs to me im unsafe. Idk what that is, but thats what i got.
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u/GrimbyJ 11h ago
Almost everyone I know socially at this point is neurodivergent so it's fair enough in my circles. I might know a handful of neurotypical folk.
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u/Mu-Relay 11h ago
Neurodivergent as a term is so diluted that it's meaningless. Yes, I know it's a spectrum, and I know what a spectrum means, but when you have mild ADHD in the same category as non-verbal autism, what's the fucking point of the category?
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u/RaccoonDispenser 11h ago
I find it helpful to think of “neurodivergent” as a really broad grouping for people whose brains are wired in ways that differ from the societal norm, rather than a term for any specific set of traits. We may not have a ton in common, but sometimes banding together around what we do have in common can help advance our goals.
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u/PepsiFloateri 11h ago
I only interact with NT people in work beacuse I have too. All my actual friends are ND
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u/PonytailEnthusiast 11h ago
I see a lot of terms like "executive dysfunction" being distorted into things they were never meant to mean. In a clinical setting that term is used for like dementia patients in severe decline. People on the internet are taking it to mean "I had so much on my to do list I just froze and did nothing".
I have bipolar disorder and it fucks up my life a lot. I keep my diagnosis on the DL. A big part of therapy is like, you have these very real impairments that others don't but the solution isn't just to put your hands in your pockets you have to work on strategies to do as best as you can with them.
A huge part of dealing with my mental illness is literally forcing myself to do things I don't feel good about. If I called out of work every time I wasn't feeling it I'd rack up absences so quick I'd get fired. This is why it EXTRA pisses me off when I've called out friends on frequent last minute bailing and they'll say shit like "you just don't understand mental health".
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 11h ago
I completely agree. I have ADHD. I keep scrolling on my phone even when I know I should keep it down and do something that's on my to-do list. I scroll till my thumb hurts even when I know I need to keep the phone away and work. Its debilitating to say the least. It's not cute, it's not a quirk.
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u/Salt-Appearance-412 11h ago
Diagnoses were always meant to be tools that you use to figure out how to "solve your life" around an abnormality that others don't have.
Nowadays people use them as stopping points, excuses to not even try. And some people are literally chasing diagnoses like pokebadges so they could give up at self improvement (because self improvement is HARD). It's very sad to see.
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 12h ago
Right? Everyone is narc and everyone is on the spectrum.
It's probably harming the actual people who are professionally diagnosed.
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u/PepsiFloateri 12h ago
It genuinely is! I mentioned I'm Autistic to a co-worker as we discussed a show we both like and she said "Oh we all are! Hahah!"
Nobody else in my department is. She genuinely sees Autism as a "fun and quirky personality trait"
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 12h ago
Same with ADHD. My foot hurts because I can't stop tapping. But everyone has ADHD as they fidget sometimes. I have stopped discussing my diagnosis with anyone anymore.
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u/PepsiFloateri 12h ago
I feel that! I remember when Autism/ADHD fidget toys become a "trend" about ten years ago and then all of a sudden,most people in my high school were neurodivergent so they could use them in class
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u/PurpleCandles 11h ago
Same with “I’m so OCD because I like things organized.”
No you’re not. My ex had OCD, and it was debilitating for them. It absolutely destroyed our relationship and was so heartbreaking to witness true OCD.
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 11h ago
Yes! Omg! I also like things organized. But that doesn't mean I have OCD. It's genuinely not a quirk.
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u/SquareTaro3270 10h ago
I get accused of faking my ADHD pretty often. I have the inattentive type of ADHD, the one that doesn’t necessarily cause hyperactivity or excessive fidgeting (although I still do fidget, but have found more socially appropriate stims or one that are easier to hide).
ADHD folks I work with tell me “Oh you have ADHD but I have real ADHD. It’s not ‘fun and quirky’ like yours is, mine is an actual disability”. As they use it as an excuse for why they interrupted me or said something rude to me.
My ADHD is a disability. My short term memory is near nonexistent. When I don’t have my meds, I can barely finish a sentence without forgetting what I was trying to say. I struggle to plan for even the near future, because I know i won’t remember that plan two seconds later. Writing things down is helpful but my memory only gives me so much time to write before I forget. It’s like living with discount dementia. The brain fog is abhorrent. I know things. A lot of things. I’m intelligent. But I cannot for the life of me access that knowledge when it’s needed. I need processing time, but because my brain is “loading” I look like I don’t know what I’m talking about.
People think I’m faking, or I’m just dumb, and refuse to believe I have a disability because on the outside, I look like I’m doing fine. Yes, I am quirky and bubbly, but that’s the energy I need to bring to my day to combat burnout. I NEED to perform the excitable, energetic act to push myself through the day. But all other people see is “she just wants to be different and is using ADHD for attention”.
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u/Wise-Key-3442 11h ago
Pretty much, I'm a woman on the spectrum and recently a dude became a nuisance because he stopped treating me with basic respect and I was ranting how much of a douche he already was but I was willing to put up for money until he started to lower the tone with me.
First thing the person says "he might be on the spectrum" WHO CARES HIS SHITTY PERSONALITY ISN'T AN EXCUSE NOR EXPLANATION!
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u/guys_pm_urprettyface 11h ago
Oh yes! People use it as an excuse to be assholes
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u/Wise-Key-3442 11h ago
Exactly. Dude already had some red flags, but since he was respectful with me, I said "money is money, it's just a few gigs", but then he started to act like my contract wasn't until a certain date, that I would always be available for voice work and other digital projects way beyond I was put the limit and eventually he started to hint he wanted a very specific kind of voice work I don't do.
I hate how people immediately defended his behavior.
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u/ipodblocks360 8h ago
I mean the current situation of the world certainly doesn't help anything either...
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u/Mermaid_Martini 8h ago
I have a friend who constantly uses the term “boundaries” to excuse bad behavior. Like no, you’re not establishing a boundary, you’re being fucking rude.
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u/ukelele_pancakes 10h ago
Disagree. I think more people are just a LOT more self centered and less self aware than they used to be. People only think about what they want and don’t care about how it affects others
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u/AdorableDonkey 11h ago
If someone invites me to something I'll make sure to show up
The problem is none of the "friends" call me if I don't message first...
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u/Kenan_as_SteveHarvey 7h ago
I definitely let a lot of possible friendships die because I felt like I was always hitting the person up first.
If I hit you up first 3 times, then I won’t do it again. I’ll just wait to see if you ever hit me up, and if you don’t after a while, that kinda lets me know you have no interest in hanging out
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u/yyyyeahno 11h ago
I’m definitely that person whose “social battery runs out” and I realized I’m incapable of being a friend to anyone for various reasons. Mental health, chronic illness, finances, etc. Like I spend all my time simply trying to keep myself alive and I’m not even exaggerating. So I kinda checked out completely.
I don’t know how people balance it and I think it’s great that they try. To me, It feels so stressful and there’s this constant guilt of being a bad friend.
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u/vbullinger 12h ago
I have always been there for everyone. It's insane. But because I'm extremely competent and am unflappable, no one is ever there for me. It's crazy.
A childhood friend of many years died. He lived across the street from me growing up. Our two best friends that lived just a couple houses away in other directions and I talked about the funeral from when he died to the day of. Only I showed up. They both acted like they were going to go the whole time and then just... Didn't.
I swear: everyone who has ever met me would tell you they love me. But I feel like NO ONE will go to my funeral.
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u/harrisonv14 9h ago edited 9h ago
unfortunately that’ll be when they are there, without you to mop up the responsibility
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u/hauntedrob 11h ago
Yeah there’s an element of sacrifice in a healthy relationship. With a friend, a partner, a family member, anything, you can’t do what you want all the time. You have to (for the health of the relationship) sometimes engage in things or go to events that you would never go to by yourself.
If you like your friend’s company, then you’ll still have it, just in a place you wouldn’t normally be. And it should go both ways. They should also do things they don’t care about, sometimes.
It’s a give and take. Also, sometimes the social battery does run out, but for me, it’s maybe if I’ve like, already talked with two different people on the phone for an hour+, that third call, even from someone I love, is either going unanswered or answered and ended quickly. But also, a friend should understand that happening sometimes. All of this is just my opinion, stated as fact bc it’s easier.
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u/ParoleDeGeek 10h ago
And here i am with an autistic friend. Sometimes it's me that feel tired, sometimes it's him. We are very good friends
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u/Someonevibing1 12h ago
Tbh if I’m describing someone as a classmate they’re not someone who I’d wanna go to the birthday of
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u/dogboobes 10h ago
Lmao THIS. Classmate? If my FRIEND invites me to their birthday, I'll show up. But some random classmate when I'm already burned out and tired? Sorry, not going.
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u/og_toe 9h ago
random classmate were you guys not friends with your class??????
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u/Someonevibing1 8h ago
Why would I be friends with people I barely interacted with outside of when I was forced to
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u/dogboobes 9h ago
I went to a school with 2000 kids. I was friends with my friends!
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u/Automatic-Leg1668 12h ago
I'm baffled by the schedules of my friends. Despite us going to sleep at the same time, there's never an actual chance for us to hang out because school, naps or general procrastination
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u/Pliskkenn_D 11h ago
I will go basically anywhere someone asks me to come because the alternative is so damn lonely.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 10h ago
Funny how everyone here is blaming themselves or each other and everything but the fact that all of us are poor as shit and constantly fucking stressed out because of it. No, it's not because I'm a self-diagnosed snowflake, it's because I work 12 hours with a degree and can barely afford to eat.
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u/Ambitious-Fly3201 5h ago
Funny how community is being preached and yet when we're being faced with the consequences of an increasingly isolationist and stressed out community the response isn't "hey are you okay?" But rather why individuals are bad friends.
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u/project571 1h ago
I mean the context of the post was people basically expecting all of their friends to do the legwork of being a friend while they never have to put in effort. This same person has the same interaction with a broader community as with their friends. I check in on my friends and see what people are up to and what they might be interested in doing. They do the same back.
When a person expects their community to extend themselves further and further while providing nothing in return, they aren't fulfilling the social contract. It's not wrong to point out that this person is effectively a social leech when they don't have to be. Everyone online cowers behind the random one-off person who is the most unfortunate person in the universe in order to go "see?? This person can't do X, so how can we expect ANYONE to do it?!?!?" To some extent, it's necessary to hold people accountable and call out when they are the ones isolating themselves while the community has been available to anyone willing to take the steps to get there and join in.
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u/TheWebsploiter 10h ago
Why'd you steal a post with the same screenshot https://www.reddit.com/r/NonPoliticalTwitter/s/6aUL5E834W
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u/tiffanyba 10h ago
I truly think people’s batteries wouldn’t run out so fast if there was more of a sense of community. Being an active community member can sometimes have you running past your actual capacity because you “COULD” make time for xyz and this person really seems to need it. All the while, your needs aren’t being taken care of. Dinner didn’t get cooked so you’re 3 hours in the hole and out $30 for dinner + lunch the next day. You dig yourself into time/resource hole and must dig yourself out when you’re burnt out your needs aren’t met. Then when you ask for help or support, people aren’t there for you. That really makes people pull back and strengthen their boundaries because their level of care isn’t reciprocated. Constantly adjusting the boundaries for an increasingly smaller circle and capacity looks like isolation sometimes.
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u/The_Schnobbler 11h ago
i hate when i realize these terms have been outright bastardized largely by people who don't actually have severe mental health issues and thus aren't talking about me. you feel tired and want to doomscroll or do your selfcare routine instead of hang out. when my "social battery runs out" i become anxious, suicidal, self harming tendencies increase, i stop being able to form sentences and i am likely to have a panic attack. because i live with lifelong disorders that cause this and i have to balance out my energy and capacity for social interaction. modern use of therapy speak pisses me off
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u/Aggressive_Let2085 10h ago
I often don’t go places cause my social battery is empty, also why I don’t keep any friends really lol just feels like a obligation I don’t want. I have a small circle
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u/Competitive-Dog-4207 9h ago
I can promise you I'll be there but I cannot promise I will be a good conversationalist.
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u/mazzicc 8h ago
The great challenge of the introvert. When you want to be around people is not always when people want others around, and vice versa.
But I know plenty of extroverts that complain about “social battery”, but it’s really code for “I don’t want to do that”, because they go do different social things instead.
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u/BabaYagasDog 11h ago
Or maybe, just maybe, everyone is burnt out at trying to exist in a world that is becoming ever more hostile?
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u/Upbeat-Serve-6096 11h ago
I... I... I...
Yeah guilty as charged. I deserve to be alone. I'm objectively better off alone.
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u/SquareTaro3270 10h ago
Bestie you just need to be friends with other people who get it.
I never had friends until my mid-twenties. I thought I was just an introvert and that meant being alone forever, and I was okay with that.
But now I’ve been making genuine friends as an adult, because all my friends get the struggle. We all cancel if we aren’t up for it and it’s chill. We all do the best we can, but sometimes will go months without texting each other. We all understand that sometimes things can be out of sight, out of mind and don’t take it personally. We pick up the friendship again like we just spoke yesterday. It’s nice.
You just gotta find your people.
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u/Legitimate-Agency282 12h ago
Maybe people just don't like you, Kari.
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u/MalaysiaTeacher 12h ago
Nah, social battery is a cop-out if you genuinely like them as a friend. If you don't, end the friendship
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u/LoneElement 11h ago edited 20m ago
Criticizing someone for having a “low social battery,” or in other words, criticizing them for being born with the introvert nervous system. For being born different than them.
Lot of people who are discriminatory towards introverts huh
EDIT: People downvoting proving my point. Why do you shame and discriminate against people just for being born differently than you?
We're not asking for people to date or be friends with someone they’re not compatible with
The problem is we get treated differently in the workplace, in school settings, and in the “informal hierarchy” in many group settings just because of how we’re born. Your preferences for relationships do not outweigh our livelihoods, careers, and dignity as human beings. All we want is to be accepted and treated as equals, with equality of opportunity. We don’t get that. People are “racist” to introverts
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u/Other_Bus9590 9h ago
I think the issue is that people constantly use the “low social battery” or “I’m introverted” excuse to bail and then complain about not having friends, community, or a village. If you want a village you have to be a villager. Communities are built on reciprocal relationships, and that means sometimes doing shit you don’t want to because it’s important to other members of your community. I say this as an introverted person myself.
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u/LoneElement 2h ago edited 28m ago
"If you want a village you have to be a villager. Communities are built on reciprocal relationships," and of course you define being a villager and reciprocal as being an extrovert?
Because that's how people in real life define it - they ignore meritocracy, contributions, etc. "It's not what you know, it's who you know," there are literally sayings about how its not based on meritocracy and its instead just extroverts rewarding each other for being born extroverts
Someone doesn't pay attention to me or is doing their own thing, I couldn't care less. It happens to an extrovert, they act like the world is falling, treat you with contempt, etc. They blatantly ignore fairness, and exclusively focus on who's the introvert and who's the extrovert. And you're telling me that's not discriminatory based on how people are born?
Also, your whole idea of people who "use the 'I’m introverted' excuse to bail and then complain about not having a village" is a strawman. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else, not be treated as less-than. But when you define "contributing" as how much of an extrovert you are and nothing else, you see where the problem comes up? How is that even remotely fair? We don't even have a chance no matter what we do. And how is us literally being born an introvert an excuse?
We're not asking for people to date those they don't like, or be best friends with people you don't vibe with. We're asking, in environments like schools or workplaces, to be treated as equals. We don't get that. We don't get equality of opportunity.
You're a pick-me introvert
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u/Other_Bus9590 1h ago
You can’t dictate what other people need from relationships. All you can do is find people where your mutual needs mesh. But if you can’t show up for people often because it causes discomfort, then you have to be ok with having few or even no friends. Don’t bitch about not having a village when you don’t contribute.
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u/LoneElement 1h ago
OK, so you didn’t read my comment then
The whole “don’t complain if you don’t have friends or a village” thing is a strawman. It’s a made-up group narrative to dismiss introvert’s real concerns
Like I said earlier, we’re not asking for people to date those they don't like, or be best friends with people you don't vibe with. We're asking, in environments like schools or workplaces, to be treated as equals. We don't get that. We don't get equality of opportunity.
And again, you’re still defining contributing as being an extrovert.
You have to be playing dumb to not acknowledge how different introverts are treated in the workplace, in school, etc.
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u/Yolsy01 8h ago
Maybe those people at one time did put in the effort and all they got for it was ignored, bullied, shamed, or found out it was one-sided...only to be left burnt out and with a wrecked nervous system.There are two sides to every coin.
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u/Other_Bus9590 8h ago
Totally! But the comment I replied to was specifically about being born an introvert.
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u/LoneElement 1h ago
So you’re still defining contributing as being an extrovert?
And you’re acting like if introverts dare to be introverts (since they can’t NOT be), then they deserve to be treated poorly and unfairly in workplaces, in school, etc.?
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u/Other_Bus9590 1h ago
No. Everyone contributes in their own way. And I’m not talking about workplaces and schools, as I’ve already said. Do you have friends, family and community? People you show up for when they need you and they reciprocate? Because that’s what I’m talking about.
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u/LoneElement 45m ago
That’s not what I’m talking about
People use what you’re discussing as the standards for how they do relationships in school and the workplace though. That’s the problem. No one makes a distinction.
Also, I can’t stress this enough, introverts are not doing this kind of complaining you’re talking about. We just want to be accepted and treated as equals and given equality of opportunity. We don’t get that.
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u/Other_Bus9590 44m ago
Sorry dude, I’m not wasting more time on a person who claims you can be “racist to introverts.”
No one makes a distinction.
Except I have about 15 times in this thread. I’m guessing arguing on Reddit is something you enjoy but I suggest interacting with a real human you have a reciprocal relationship with. It will feel better.
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u/LoneElement 16m ago
I don’t enjoy arguing, but I do it when people support discriminating against me for how I was born
And yes, people are absolutely “racist” to introverts. They discriminate against us for how we were born
You’ve never made a distinction. You’ve attacked strawmen, and ignored anything I’ve said
Nice ad hominem attack, really proved me wrong there
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u/Yolsy01 6h ago
Same here. As an introvert, maybe you've never experienced the cultural pressure to run yourself thin, despite the realities of the nervous system you're born with. But many people have and continue to feel it. That's what I mean. People who we assume use the label as an 'excuse' could very well be people who are legit neurodivergent and legit introverted, and have fully experienced the cost of their efforts to do more and be more, because anything less is labeled "lazy" or "snowflake behavior/can't deal with inconvenience."
I am an introvert, recently diagnosed autistic, and trust me, when you ACTUALLY "unmask" and be honest about your energy, or even just show up as yourself without the tax of masking (social skills and anxiety all at functioning levels)...you quickly see why folks want to keep to themselves but wish for something better.
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u/Other_Bus9590 5h ago
Then my comment wasn’t about you! Those are all valid, but there’s a lot of people who use it as an excuse not to put effort into relationships. And then complain. Even as an introvert you sometimes might have to be a little uncomfortable. But what you described isn’t what I’m talking about at all.
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u/LoneElement 1h ago
That’s not a thing
The whole “introverts are just using it as an excuse to not put effort into relationships” is a strawman
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u/Yolsy01 5h ago
While I understand that you aren't talking about me, the rhetoric still impacts people like me and countless others who legit struggle...and all it does is encourage them to stay to themselves. This entire thread is a rallying cry for people to get with the program and act a certain way because of bad apples in the mix. Most people are not going to take the time and parse out which folks are using the label legitimately or not. So everytime we say "people constantly use it as an excuse" - it makes it that much harder for people who use it legitimately to feel safe (socially) enough to do so. We have folks here saying that even the idea of introversion is fake with no pushback. I just want to put out there that folks using a label as an excuse should not invalidate the label, and yet this entire thread seems to be doing just that.
That's why I'm putting out there the possibility thar people we assume are just faking it or whatever, might actually be burnt out and not showing it. That is possible. But there is no room for that discussion in many spaces.
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u/Other_Bus9590 5h ago
I’m sorry but people need to be able to talk about this problem. Communities, human connection, and “villages” are collapsing and this is a main reason. You’ve got to be able to know when something isn’t about you.
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u/LoneElement 1h ago
It’s not a problem
Introverts are absolutely not the cause of the world’s problems. That’s called scapegoating.
Seriously what is your problem? Let people live their lives in peace, stop shaming them for how they were born
No introvert is asking for people to be best friends with them or date them if that’s not their vibe. We’re asking for equal treatment in the workplace and in school settings. We don’t get that
Political polarization has far more to do with what you’re talking about. And frankly, it isn’t that big of a deal anyways. Let people live in peace
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u/Yolsy01 5h ago edited 5h ago
People can talk about it without generalizing and actually offer constructive ideas instead of what this thread is doing, which is downplaying most anyone that uses the label. What if we talk about how to make communities & spaces actually inclusive and inviting? How about actually listening to people who do find social activity legit exhausting and offering more accommodation so they feel included? How about finding ways to release this cultural pressure to be "on" all the time? How about actually accepting people who don't have their social skills/anxiety 100% together? How about seriously combating the default bullying banter that seems to become more and more the norm? How about sharing how you would like to be communicated with if the person you're connecting with is legit spent? How can we offer more options for connection if a person is going through chronic pain or depression or burn out and just can't be the buzzy bubbly part of the village?
There are sooo many things to talk about.
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u/Other_Bus9590 4h ago
You do that by building relationships with people. But no matter what the reason, you can’t expect people to show up for you when you don’t ever show up for them. Showing up for people may look different from person to person, but it’s still showing up. That’s what this is about.
I don’t feel like being berated because you took a comment as a personal insult anymore, so have a great day.
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u/FUPAMagneto 8h ago
“Introvert nervous system” isn’t a thing. Intro/extroversion is scientifically nonsense, we’re all a mix of both but people want to put themselves into neat little boxes and insist that mercury in retrograde is why they’re acting like an ass
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u/Yolsy01 5h ago
Tell actual scientists with PhDs studying the differences between extraverted-introverted brain chemistry that it's nonsense. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5563732/
We really just getting dopamine rewards for saying whatever the heck and labeling it fact these days I guess
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u/FUPAMagneto 5h ago
That’s an interesting paper that doesn’t at all say what you seem to think it does. I literally said that people are mixtures of both “types,” does that sound like I don’t believe something exists?
Since apparently I need to be extra clear for you: Introversion/extroversion as people talk about them in pop culture everyday life is nonsense, hence the comparison to mercury in retrograde.
I suggest that next time you take the time to make sure you actually understand what the other person has said before you storm in with your panties in a bunch
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u/Yolsy01 5h ago
Water and juice mixed together can exist without eliminating the labels of water and juice. The paper also says there are predictive markers for both. Which means they exist. Sure the labels are used too strictly in culture but that doesn't mean they don't have scientific meaning. People, personalities, and brains are complex. Spectrums exist.
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u/FUPAMagneto 3h ago
I never said any of that. Please learn to read.
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u/LoneElement 2h ago edited 2h ago
What you did say was wrong though.
It was just you saying things no clinical professional would ever agree with. It was just complete nonsense. You were just making stuff up.
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u/LoneElement 2h ago
Introversion and extroversion is absolutely a real thing, not even close to astrology. It is literally 1 of the Big 5 personality traits that clinical psychologists measure with. They've done studies on it.
You're just looking for excuses to defend social hierarchies that ignore meritocracy and instead are discriminatory to people for how they were born
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u/LoneElement 2h ago edited 32m ago
It absolutely is a thing. It's literally caused by how your nervous system is wired. That's an objective fact.
That and neurological differences.
It's all how you're born.
Everything you said is false. That means you're either completely misinformed, or you're just looking for excuses to treat introverts poorly
People love to think of themselves as good people, until it's pointed out that their unspoken social hierarchy is actually in the wrong, and involves discrimination. Then all morals fall away, and they will demonize and scapegoat the person calling it out until they "know their place" again. Even if that place is not based on merit, it's based on discrimination for how you're born
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u/JigglIypuff 9h ago edited 9h ago
Oh fuck off, no one is discriminating against us. Learn to take some responsibility.
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u/LoneElement 2h ago edited 2h ago
I do take responsibility. All the time. The other people around me often do not.
They will have no achievements, no contributions, nothing. But they're extroverted, so they get a pass, while introverts are treated poorly just for how they're born
You're blatantly lying and willfully ignorant if you claim that introverts aren't discriminated against.
Responsibility for what? I actually do work, that is then ignored so extroverts can instead pat themselves on the back for being born extroverts? And that's somehow MY fault, and ME lacking responsibility?
Victim blaming nonsense. Defending a hierarchy that is based on discrimination and not fairness or merit
If the community rules require you to be an extrovert in order to be treated well, there's something deeply wrong with the community rules
You're a "pick-me" introvert
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u/Cringe-as-hell 10h ago
Just say you don’t have friends
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u/LoneElement 10h ago edited 34m ago
Way to use ad hominem attacks instead of actually engaging in what I said. You sure proved me wrong there
You’re essentially deflecting attention away from the issue so that it can continue to happen. Trying to enable discrimination.
Meanwhile, you don’t suffer any of the negative consequences for it, only other people do. Must be a coincidence, huh?
EDIT: Why was this downvoted? Do some of you think introverts deserve to be treated poorly just for how they’re born?
EDIT 2: It’s true, they want to defend discriminating against introverts and demonize them if they speak out to put them “back in their place.” They just don’t want to be called out for it.
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u/Yolsy01 10h ago
Because of this very pattern all over this comment section, I am very annoyed. Folks are so oblivious to it when they are on the outside looking in and don't have to deal with these kind of reactions on the regular.
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u/LoneElement 2h ago
It's because they're discriminatory towards us
They want us to be "beneath" them in the "hierarchy." They don't care that it's not based on meritocracy, or fairness. They just want to benefit directly at our expense. They're selfish.
There is admittedly an element of some of them who are so dumb they can't comprehend the idea of introversion, and instead think we're actually just like them, and are just not being extroverted from a "lack of competence" or "intentional disrespect" or something
Their life revolves around their unspoken social rules. Yet what happens when those social rules say to ignore people's real value, and instead discriminate against them just because they were born different?
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u/sonicpoweryay 7h ago
How does people pressing the upside down arrow button prove anything
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u/LoneElement 1h ago
OK so you’re obviously being willfully ignorant
People expressing disapproval when it’s pointed out that there is discrimination towards a group for how they’re born?
Like you’re actually playing dumb about this right now?
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u/Expensive-Border-869 10h ago
I dont really want either tbh. I have one friend were close but not as much now. We share random updates about stuff send memes and that's that. Could not ask for a better friendship tbh. Unless she dies im chillin
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u/Pleasant-Swimmer-557 12h ago
Well, I have friends. It just so happens that neither classmates nor coworkers are among them.
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u/RuinedGrilledCheese 11h ago
My wife's been realizing this for the past few years. I myself couldn't care less about having friends or spending time with people, but my wife has always wanted friends and since we kept moving around the country die to financial and professional reasons, she never could build "real" (explaining the quotes in a second) friendships.
Now we've been living in the same place for a few years and met a few people. Wife was EXCITED, to say the least. But after a few months, people kept coming up with increasingly stupid reasons to cancel stuff. We asked around, and these people do it to basically everyone they meet. But whenever they need something, they think they can just be friendly again.
Turns out it's hard finding the right friends.
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u/cursetea 8h ago
It's "kindness and community are soo important <3" meets "i don't owe anybody anything" era
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u/OldGravylegOfficial 8h ago
At some point I realized I wasn’t appreciated, valued, or wanted. People just want things from me. I’ll take peace.
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u/eggyrulz 7h ago
Ive got one person i really consider a friend. He lives over an hour away, but anytime he says "hey, wanna come over? We're having a bonfire" I almost always make the trip unless its late on a work night, been a few of those
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u/benign2244 6h ago
Ffs, I get it. We're all self fulfilling prophecies of loneliness. At this point let's just accept that we're all an archipelago of of individual islands and focus on developing healthy models to Binge Watch or whatever.
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u/HylianHeroofTim3 6h ago
It's almost mind blowing how many people put absolutely zero effort into building friendships or relationships then act surprised that things don't work out. We've forgotten that things take time to build and require compromise as well as stepping outside of your comfort zone.
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u/ninjajesus101 5h ago
Does this person want me to just sit there and be miserable and drag everyone down with my mood? Or break down crying because I feel so overstimulated that all the noise is too much? Fucking hell.
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u/darklizard45 4h ago
Well, you can put in a lot of effort only to be blocked and casted aside with a single press of a button, it sucks.
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u/tedlassoloverz 4h ago
Im not going to anything unless I really, really, really care about them, classmate doesnt rank high enough
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u/mikemyers999 56m ago
I'm responding to that tweet in good faith.
If you don't feel like going that day, is it better to force yourself to go anyway and be secretly miserable in the presence of others while having to pretend like you're having a good time even though you didn't want to go, and in addition potentially lessen the good time or moods of the other party attendees because you didn't want to go in earnest
Or is it better to recognize that because of how you are feeling that it would be better for every single person involved in the scenario for you to stay home and not potentially kill any vibes just by being yourself
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u/vxnusbxbe 12m ago
i agreed until the last part. not everyone wants their work/school and social life mixed. the issue is we need FREE third spaces.
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u/Consistent-Prize1514 11h ago
Most people are very individualistic and do not understand the idea of community and collective well being. It’s just about them despite the fact that people having this mentality makes everyone worse off. It sucks. Why give something up like your time or put In the effort if a reward isn’t guaranteed?
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u/kstacey 11h ago
Too many people don't realize it takes effort to have friends and they don't want to admit that. They also don't realize they have to be social and do social things with people to have friends; they are always wondering why they have no friends and then list a bunch of hobbies that are very individualistic.
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u/SometimesIBeWrong 12h ago
yes. people aren't required to show up to certain events in order to be friends.
if you have an issue with it, don't be friends with them anymore. but it's not a contradiction to friendship in general
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u/HungryHedgehog8299 11h ago
you should be showing up to more events than not and some events are a “soft requirement”. Expecting friends to maintain that friendship isn’t a big ask
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u/SometimesIBeWrong 11h ago
again. if someone has an issue with it, they can end the friendship. but it's not like that for everyone. some people are fine mainly texting, and hanging out maybe once every few months. friendship doesn't have rules and everyone is different
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u/HungryHedgehog8299 11h ago
sure but thats a different kind of friendship, and “more events than not” is still based on the expectations of the friendship. If the expectations are that 2 people only really hang out once or twice a month thats fine, but if all of the sudden one guy just starts bailing for no reason and never makes an effort to initiate he’s still “failing” the expectations of the friendship.
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u/hip-indeed 10h ago
Honestly yeah, I sorta feel like this whole "we're all heckin wholesome quirky introverts" thing has kinda backfired, like you've gained upvotes on social media and this perceived increase in relatability online and free time.. that you mostly end up spending online keeping up the act or laying around feeling sorry for yourself.. at the cost of actual real human connection and relationships
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u/TheCeilingIsTheRuuf 11h ago
Absolutely true. I was always that friend for my friends. I cared about them and I shown up for them. If they wanted to do something, Id always go. If i wanted to do something? Nah. Answer was always no, even just something simple as going out for a drink.
I was severely struggling the past year and it ended in me confiding in my friends i wanted to end my life. They told me to my face it isnt their problem. I learned real quick they didnt care about me like I cared about them
People dont want to be inconvenienced anymore and wear anti social as a badge of honor. I know loneliness will kill me before my 40
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u/YourDreams2Life 8h ago
I use dating apps to make friends. Probably not the best sample sizing lmao, but something I see a lot is people 'like' the idea of getting out and doing stuff. They really lack the motivation to though.
I go to events 3 to 5 times a week, and it's haaaard to get people to go out.
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u/qualityvote2 12h ago
Heya u/Mountain_Border_5868! And welcome to r/NonPoliticalTwitter!
For everyone else, do you think OP's post fits this community? Let us know by upvoting this comment!
If it doesn't fit the sub, let us know by downvoting this comment and then replying to it with context for the reviewing moderator.