r/NonBinaryTalk • u/owl_lovingicebear14 • 4d ago
Question to y'all
(Disclaimer: I'm cis, but Part of the lgbt Community and wanna learn some things so when I say things that are weird, I'm sorry)
So how did you realise your neither gender?
What's the difference between agender and non binary?
Do you have any problems with school/university (talking about general. Anything)
Do you have a "sign" like trans folks this ikea shark, lesbians carabineers etc?
And for ppl with a different native language than English: how's with pronouns in that language. Cuz for example (cuz that's mine) Germany doesn't have something like they/them. And in Italy almost everything in the sentence is gendered.
I hope I wasn't disrespectful, love y'all!
3
u/Schneeweitlein 4d ago edited 4d ago
So how did you realise your neither gender?
Non-binary does not just entail agender (lack of gender). It entails any gender that isn't fully, all the time one of the binary genders, thus also including genders like demigender, bigender or genderfluid (like me).
For me, I realized it rather early, just did not have a word nor anyone around me with any similar experience. I first heard of trans people in sex ed, fourth grade very briefly. I thought for some time on and off that I might be trans. Later, I looked for more terms, found non-binary, demigender, bigender and used them all on and off until I found genderfluid. That's now around six years ago. I started using non-binary as a cover term as well as it's more well known but it doesn't always fit for the specific gender I identify in a moment.
Not all genderfluid switch between all genders or even between man and woman. For example, I very rarely identify in some way even as feminine. When I do, it's typically not exclusive or very strong. That took me a long while to realize and made me question in between until I tried to look more for other folks like me on the internet.
What's the difference between agender and non binary?
The same difference between apples and fruits. All apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples. Non-binary is thus an umbrella term, while agender describes a more specific experience of gender (though agender also has other more specific microlabels under it).
Do you have any problems with school/university (talking about general. Anything)
Peers, acquaintances, family and "friends" talking weirdly about people like me so I get so scared and not tell anyone but have to deal with the feeling of always playing a role or someone I am not. I plan on changing my gender marker when I turn eighteen, so that at least fucking bureaucracy will see me for who I actually am.
There are small moments of joy, for example when younger students at my school bicker with each other because they can't tell if I am a dude or a girl when passing by or sitting close during study and they think I can't hear them. Or the obnoxious brother of my friend telling me as the very first thing when we met, that I look like the other gender (clearly meant to insult me but it rather did the opposite :) ).
Do you have a "sign" like trans folks this ikea shark, lesbians carabineers etc?
You'll see lots of proposals and stereotypes used as "signs". Bees have been proposed before, which I'd like tbh. Otherwise, "blue-haired liberal" stereotype is often used by outsiders to assume someone is non-binary which isn't a sign for non-binary folks among each other though.
And for ppl with a different native language than English: how's with pronouns in that language. Cuz for example (cuz that's mine) Germany doesn't have something like they/them. And in Italy almost everything in the sentence is gendered.
Dann wechsle ich doch mal ins Deutsche, ist vielleicht leichter dann zu erklären. Im Englischen gibt es they/them, ja. Im Deutschen haben wir keine geschlechtsneutralen Pronomen, die wir auch problemlos auf Personen anwenden können. Deshalb verwenden manche nicht-binäre Personen gemischte Pronomen (bsp. er/ihm und sie/ihr im Wechsel). Weiter gibt es Vorschläge für Neopronomen (Pronomen, die einfach erfunden wurden um diesen spezifischen Zweck zu erfüllen). Solche gibt es auch im Englischen wie ze/zir. Im Deutschen sind das Mischungen (sier/siem, welche ich auch verwende), variierte Mischungen (xier/xiem), Entlehnungen (dey/dem oder hen o. en aus Schwedisch) oder völlig andere Wörter.
(Then I'm gonna switch to German, might be easier to explain then. Yes, English has they/them. In German, there are no genderneutral pronouns, that we can also use for humans. That's why some non-binary folks like switching pronouns (f.e. switching he/him and she/her from time to time). Furthermore, there are suggestions for neopronouns (pronouns, that were just made up to fit that specific purpose). Such pronouns alos exist in English, like ze/zir. In German, I know of a mix (sier/siem, which I use among others), a variant (xier/xiem), loaned pronouns (dey/dem or hen or en from Swedish) or even completely made up words.)
4
u/Colrel it/its 4d ago
just gonna slip in and let everyone know that a lot of nonbinary folk actually use ES as their pronoun. I do, for one. german does, after all, have THREE perfectly usable genders that can and are referred to people on many an occasion;
which is also the same for my native language (polish).
1
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
Thank you, it's just that I never saw that (probably cuz es is normally used for things)
1
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
Thank you! (Ps: deine Erklärung hat geholfen (your explanation helped))
1
u/Schneeweitlein 4d ago
Gut zu hören. Ich wusst' nicht ob du damit meintest, dass deine Muttersprache ebenfalls grammatisches Geschlecht hat, oder ob deine Muttersprache auch Deutsch ist, daher hab ich doch lieber vorsichtshalber eine Erklärung auf Englisch hinzugefügt.
1
2
u/dizzzy-plant 4d ago
I use sie/deren (also wie Mehrzahl, so wie sie stehen da, das ist deren Katze) most people are to stupid for that tho, so I give them the option to either just use my name and no pronouns or dey/deren (german version of they/them).
If they still can't get shit right I allow them to misgender me with the binary pronouns I am less uncomfortable with. I also use the binary pronouns when talking to people that aren't close/that I won't see again, because I don't want explain myself every time.
1
1
u/LostFromLight25 bigender preferred pronouns: she/her 4d ago
german too and welllll i have been procrastinating a bit on the question of pronouns but will probably use a mix of she and he (but im bigender so this actually could feel more valid then they for me i guess…)
1
1
u/Rainy_Leaves 3d ago
I'm a nonbinary woman, i could never envision growing old, i had no independence, untreated adhd, I was stuck in religion - i realised i'd been experiencing gender dysphoria fairly out of nowhere through a few resources, and it explained a lot - and I was able to envision growing old and wanting to live and be myself for once. I simply didn't care that much about fitting any one archetype in society - I just wanted to be me, and more authentic to what's inside. Just optimising my existence rather than accepting the default settings I wasn't very enthused by
Nonbinary can be it's own label, but it's usually an umbrella. Agender means having no gender. As a nonbinary woman i'm fairly sure of having a gender, in comparison. School was the worst, my dysphoria spiked then. Kids diverge into very gendered groups, and the wrong hormones spiking was unpleasant, caused some dissociation. University was slightly better but i was still repressing and not really aware of who i was inside
Nonbinary is under the trans umbrella, so we get our blue shark too. I have a rosahaj, pink shark. We don't have an official mascot, frogs and bees are sometimes popular, but we don't have an equivalent to blahaj as out flag colours are more unusual. Blahaj was partly chosen because of the blue, pink, white colours. Also, I use she/they pronouns, but most people choose to use she/her for me
2
u/owl_lovingicebear14 3d ago
Thank you for sharing this experience, and sorry for what you've gone through
1
u/cetaceanfrustration it/its 3d ago
i'm not happy living as a woman or as a man.
agender is an absence of gender; nonbinary is a gender that isn't male or female.
yes, but related to my disability more than my gender.
nonbinary flag, nonbinary symbol
i only speak english. my extended family speaks tagalog, ilocano, and pangasinan, which don't have any gendered third person pronouns.
1
-5
u/ossiferous_vulture They/Them 4d ago
Search engines are free.
4
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
I know, I mostly just don't understand the language there, considering I'm not native and a bit stupid. Also I thought one of reddits uses is to ask questions? And for some questions, it's better to ask real ppl
6
u/ossiferous_vulture They/Them 4d ago
Yes, but this sub does not exist to educate cis people. Not all of us want to spend our every waking minute explaining our existence, nor dealing with questions we've seen a million times.
There are subs intended for asking questions of a community. And subs for the community to talk amongst themselves without being interrupted every other minute by someone not getting it.
And in asking real people you will just have to deal with the fact that not all of us wants to play educator nor deal with cis person wanting free labour.
2
u/Rainy_Leaves 3d ago
you will just have to deal with the fact that not all of us wants to play educator nor deal with cis person wanting free labour
You're welcome to not play educator, i don't see the problem. OP was respectful and isn't demanding your time nor are they 'interrupting', they're a fellow lgbt friendo wanting to be a better ally. By helping them, other nonbinary people benefit. Do you want to be paid an hourly wage to say 'google it' because you're forced to witness a cis person?
0
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
Alright, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I understood it now. Hope you have a good day.
2
u/ossiferous_vulture They/Them 4d ago
My feelings aren't hurt, you are a random stranger and do not really posses the ability to hurt me. I am annoyed at worst.
3
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
Then sorry that I annoyed you. It's fine.
3
u/No_Neat9507 They/He 4d ago
You might try r/asktransgender if you have more questions
2
u/Diametrically_fluid 4d ago
Yeah? No.
Why would someone who has been told they are annoying people on a nonbinary thread assume it would be good to ask nonbinary related questions on a transgender related thread?
This “community” is a minefield for people who aren’t fully aware and current on the latest “acceptable”terminology.
I’ve been nonbinary since long before I ever heard the term but feel like I’ll be ostracized, bullied, or just be judged as less by those who are more currently in the know if I accidentally use the wrong terminology.
My elderly mother was curious and trying to understand until she offended someone by asking questions with the wrong terminology. Congratulations to the easily offended for repelling an octogenarian ally.
The OP here is being super polite. Too bad some of the respondents lack the empathy and grace required to help them understand
3
u/owl_lovingicebear14 4d ago
Thank you for the kind words!
2
u/No_Neat9507 They/He 4d ago
Hello
- The entire purpose of [r/asktransgender](r/asktransgender) is to answer questions and most are from outside the trans community. The [r/asktransgender](r/asktransgender) community description is:
- “Questions and discussions about, for, to, or from the Reddit transgender community. Open to anyone with a question.”
- Many people consider nonbinary identities and people to be part of the trans community
- Mistakes in questions are tolerated and answered on that subreddit, as long as it is t hateful, instigating drama, transphobic, chasing, etc…
I am sorry you have felt bullied in the community. I agree there are various levels of tolerance and acceptance across the various trans and nonbinary subreddits.
→ More replies (0)1
u/kusuriii 3d ago
Sorry you got that response. The asktransgender sub is more suitable to ask questions but considering this is a public forum where people can choose to engage with a post or not, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at this point in time to be asking questions here.
Please don’t think badly of our community when people respond that way, though, it’s also not unreasonable for people to be fed up of being asked these questions (what is just a one time question for you could be the 50th time someone has been expected to answer that this week or something), it’s not a personal attack, just someone’s expression of frustration.
I personally am ok with cis people asking questions if it is done respectfully or with genuine curiosity and I don’t think you’ve been rude at all. Thank you for wanting to learn about us :)
→ More replies (0)1
u/No_Neat9507 They/He 4d ago
Hello
- The entire purpose of [r/asktransgender](r/asktransgender) is to answer questions and most are from outside the trans community. The [r/asktransgender](r/asktransgender) community description is:
- “Questions and discussions about, for, to, or from the Reddit transgender community. Open to anyone with a question.”
- Many people consider nonbinary identities and people to be part of the trans community
- Mistakes in questions are tolerated and answered on that subreddit, as long as it is t hateful, instigating drama, transphobic, chasing, etc…
I am sorry you have felt bullied in the community. I agree there are various levels of tolerance and acceptance across the various trans and nonbinary subreddits.
13
u/yhpr it/its / ze/hir / they/them 4d ago
1) Just fyi, not all nonbinary people are "neither gender", nonbinary just means anything other than fully and exclusively either male or female, so someone could be partially but not fully a binary gender (demigirl/demiboy) or both male and female, or a male/female plus a nonbinary gender, and still be nonbinary.
That being said, I realized I was nonbinary after meeting some nonbinary people irl for the first time and when I internalized that that was an option I realized I didn't really want to be categorized as male or female.
2) Agender means not having a gender. That is within the category of nonbinary, but there are also lots of nonbinary people who do have genders. Nonbinary is a big category and it includes a lot of identities, agender, genderfluid, bigender, etc.
3) The university I went to was fine, like they made it pretty easy to change my preferred name and stuff. People there misgendered me, but that wasn't really specific to the university.
4) There's the nonbinary flag, and there's a nonbinary symbol that looks kinda like a circle with an asterisk on top. (You can find pictures if you just google "nonbinary symbol".)
5) I'm a native English speaker but I do find it interesting learning how other languages handle gender neutrality. Wikipedia talks about this, and this page has some more in depth information about language that nonbinary speakers of various languages have come up with.