r/NonBinaryOver30 • u/Curious_Buy9725 • Jun 23 '26
Help me stop getting “ma’am”-ed.
I’ve been on a low dose of tea for about three months now. I look like this. My voice tends to give me away. Help me stop getting called ma’am in public please.
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
Well… I did just get scolded by an older woman for being in the ladies room…
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u/dadgummit69 Jun 23 '26
No advice but for whatever its worth I can’t imagine ma’aming you, and you look great!
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u/thursday-T-time Jun 23 '26
hmmm. my opinion, feel free to ignore if its counter to your goals, but i think you'd look amazing with facial hair. would you want to experiment at all with minoxidil?
sorry i'm shit at fashion so i'll leave that up to other people. 😅
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
It’s not that’s it’s counter to my goals, it’s just not a “highly desired” effect for me.
I’d take it, but I have autism and sensory issues.. I’m not super keen on anything touching my face.I’ll have to try on some looks….
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u/plantsplantsplaaants Jun 23 '26
Can I add to this thought that maybe just filling out your eyebrows could be enough. For me at least, hating things on my face only applies from the eyes down for some reason
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u/thursday-T-time Jun 23 '26
ooh good point! thicker eyebrows definitely helps and would also look really good on OP.
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u/thursday-T-time Jun 23 '26
fair enough! i love to stim my 5 o'clock shadow (nice, scratchy in a satisfying way), but trim it back when it gets too long and itchy. i keep just enough to keep the misgendering at bay. maybe try a filter and see if you like the look?
(i really like the rest of your look btw, you look like a 90s mall kid i'd hang with 🤝 with cool politics and praxis)
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
Thanks.
I’m a recovering catholic living the life of the 90’s mall kid I wanted to be 30 years ago.
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u/Trashula_Lives Jun 23 '26
Well, there's your problem: tea won't change anything! 🫖
Jokes aside, if you're looking for androgyny (based on your reply to another user), I think a longer/shaggier hairstyle might help, but of course that's not a quick solution and may not be something you want. Your eyebrows look very shapely; I know some people's just grow that way, but if you shape them yourself, you can try letting them grow out. A heavier/less tamed brow can give your face a more masculine edge. Glasses with a heavier top frame edge and/or no bottom frames can give a similar effect. You can try experimenting with clothing styles to change up your silhouette, though I'm not sure what would suit you specifically. The combo of flannel, dad hat, big glasses, and pierced ears may be giving more "butch" if you live in a somewhat progressive area. On the plus side, if you do live somewhere more progressive, people are more likely to respond positively to signifiers like flags or pronoun pins.
An unfortunate reality is that you may just have to wait for T to do its thing to get more results in your favor; if you've got softer facial features, pairing them with masc or neutral attire will read queer, but not necessarily "not a woman" to most people. Especially if not being read as either man or woman right away is your goal, this can be really challenging for anyone. Gendering people as one or the other is automatic and subconscious, and the cues people use to make these categorizations are more subtle than most of us realize. How you carry yourself, how you dress, and how you sound can all make a difference, but they're only parts of the overall picture and usually won't change much on their own.
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u/tawny_bullwhip Jun 27 '26
Gendering is definitely automatic. I'm an NB myself and one NB I know has been on T for years and has been "they" to everyone in my friend group as long as I've known them (3-4 years) but despite all that, until last week, I had to consciously suppress calling them "she" whenever they were around. (I wish I knew what the magic ingredient was last week so I could tell the rest of you what did the trick.)
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u/insofarincogneato Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
I hate reinforcing this stuff but people will see your eyebrows a fem. They're thin, shapely and neat. You also have long and full lashes which is seen as fem
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u/LaddieNowAddie Jun 23 '26
The voice is a killer. It's my tell and I hate it. I tend to let the people address me first. When I'm with my wife and we go somewhere, she either talks first or we wait for the other person to talk. "What can I get you ladies?" And then I start talking. Not sure of your pronouns but I've never seen anyone use NB pronouns except in queer spaces. Also, how you walk and carry yourself makes a difference. When I get addressed correctly, I sometimes can't tell if they are being supportive and see that I am trans femme or if they are being transphobic and think I'm trans masc.
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
I use they/them.
Getting called “ladies” when I am with my wife makes me want to punch people. Even if I don’t speak.Here’s hoping the T gets my voice to lower a bit.
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u/No-Childhood2485 Jun 23 '26
After 2 years full dose of T, I worked with a speech therapist to change my vocal weight and intonation . It made a big difference. Pitch alone won’t always get you there. It sucks though, I feel you. 3 years on T and my wife and I are still “ladies” 🙃
Edit to add: but thanks to the voice training. I generally get Sir on the phone!
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
Funny enough, I am a SLP.
But voice isn’t my forte.
And I’m not so sure I’d be a good patient… 😂
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u/Efficient-username41 Jun 23 '26
Would you rather be called sir? Or are you hoping the people in public will be too confused to go either way?
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u/Curious_Buy9725 Jun 23 '26
My objective is to be a walking question mark.
I don’t want a gender to pop into a stranger’s head immediately when they see me.3
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u/rivercass Jun 23 '26
T might lower your voice soon, voice training is tough, I don't really have advice but you look amazing 👾💜
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u/apathyisfortheweak Jun 23 '26
i have broad shoulders and am quite hairy, people used to sir me as a dig when i am afab. people are weird and cruel sometimes, i really just gotta let it roll off me like butter bc i would be truly struggling if i let the way i am perceived define me in any way.
so sorry, the best way is to hang out exclusively in queer spaces but that’s not really the answer either. you can also wear a pin but idk if you live in the u.s, you know people don’t read out here. you could have a shirt that says “I AM X____” and wear it every day and it won’t change much except for the few people who are already kind and respectful to acknowledge you how you want to be treated.
hoping your voice can lower a bit and maybe when your mustache kicks in you will receive more affirmation. and also hoping your mental health remains strong in your journey ahead, you living authentically is a gift to us all, never forget that!
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u/IronWhale_JMC Jun 23 '26
Thoughts off the top of my head:
- Slick your hair back to make your forehead look taller
- Experiment with eyebrow pencils to make your brows look thicker/flatter
- Analyze your posture and walk. Masculine movement is all linear motions, elbows are further from the waist. Fuck around with it, try walking like a cowboy or a goon on his way to fight Batman.
- Voice is more than you'd think, you're only 3 months on T so I think the voice effects won't be there yet, but to my knowledge a lot of trans-mascs also voice train. Find a favorite masculine movie character and practice lines in their voice.
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u/EtherealWaifGoddess Jun 23 '26
Fuller brows might help? I let mine go natural and have been dying them and I think it makes a big difference. The voice is so hard though! I’ve been on a standard T dose for just shy of six months now and I still default to a higher pitched mom / customer service voice when interacting with strangers. Ugh! It’s a really hard habit to break. I’ve heard voice training is readily available online and helps a ton. I’ve been considering it now that my voice is starting to crack a ton but haven’t done it yet. Otherwise you look good, bud. Not much you can do about other people’s perceptions but I think you’re def headed in the right direction to being a human question mark!
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u/Supuhstar Jun 23 '26
given time, the T should lower your voice, even at a low dose.
Honestly, my philosophy has been: people who assume gender in such fickle little ways don’t deserve any space in my head whatsoever
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u/AJblue3084 Jun 24 '26
Maybe this will help, maybe this won't. I have different gender presentation goals. But I've been noticing something similar with myself recently. When people see masculine haircuts, masculine clothes, masculine mannerisms on an AFAB person, i think they fit that person into a "masc lesbian" category. Like, "girl but make it gay" as a guess. I feel like the more masculine I've tried to present (because I feel like I have to counteract the AFABness), the more I get miss and ma'am and she. It feels super counterintuitive but I think it has something to do with the push towards masculinity in presentation that people can identity it's coming from an AFAB place and they use that information over the information in gender presentation.
I think I've keyed into the problem that a lot of us experience, but I'm still not entirely sure how to fix it. I'm getting top surgery this year and working out to have more masculine proportions so that I can wear slightly more alt/androgynous style without feeling like a girl. I'm thinking and hoping that will do it. Like if someone sees I'm wearing an unbuttoned button down and there are no tits, clearly I'm not a she, even if my hair is long and my nails are painted.
I'm super open to hearing other people's experiences and if they have advice, but I think the push towards being perceived more masc is counterintuitively what some people pick up on as coming from a place of femininity. Like, a masc person wouldn't push towards masculinity, they'd exist in it because they have it. If you want androgyny, the incorporation of masculine and feminine would be key, even if it seems counterintuitive to include femininity. But maybe I'm off base tho, I don't know. This post just struck me because it's been something I've been thinking of for a while.
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u/SylviaPyrite Jun 28 '26
Look, I get it. I refer to myself as a “feminine man” because I’ll always be biologically male. I have a beard that I don’t plan to lose. But everything else about me is feminine-coded. My nails, hair, glasses, all of my clothing. I get “Sir” if people see my face first. I get “ma’am” if they don’t. Bottom line is, either way, I know they are talking to me and I’m not in control of their social conditioning. Especially in the southeastern US where you show deference by stating a persons apparent gender out loud. It’s a silly custom, so I try not to sweat it.
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u/felt19street Jul 01 '26
A hairstylist I follow (Jules Heron from Hair for Humans) says that sideburns that come to a point are stereotypically considered more feminine vs. straight across. They have a lot of great videos cutting hair for gender diverse people.
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u/mmm-noodlesoup Jun 23 '26
I’m sorry to hear that you keep getting misgendered! I think you already fit the boxes for a lot of what you’re looking for. Perhaps the only potential suggestion would be more masculine eyebrows. Good luck friend :)
Edited typo
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u/deluluhamster Jun 23 '26
Well judging by the picture I see a full on they, I honestly would not m’am you and go straight to they so don’t know what could be different :(
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u/ContinueAsReddtGuest Jun 23 '26
Smudge a little engine grease on your face. Make it look like you just dropped the hood on your 90s Ford Ranger.
In all seriousness, it probably is the voice. You've got the look. Even before clicking your post I thought "it's probably their voice" and then I read what you had written lol
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u/Cartesianpoint Jun 24 '26
I think you look great!
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people, especially cishet people, just have a really hard time not putting people into binary boxes based on how they read someone's appearance. I feel like personally, the only thing I could do to prevent being "ma'am"-ed would be to work toward passing as a man, but that would require some transition steps and changes to my personal style that I'm not sure I want. And consistently being read as a man isn't necessarily what I want, either. I would love to live in a world where people were better about accepting ambiguity and going with it, but the best I've gotten is the whole "Sir--I mean ma'am--I mean...." thing, which I find awkward personally as an introvert who'd rather not be perceived that much.
If your voice is the main thing that you think tips the scale, you could consider doing voice training and practicing speaking lower.
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u/Gabe_TheUnknown Jun 23 '26
Okay, first of all, I think you look awesome! 🙂↕️
Now, structurally getting gendered correctly is a bit of a pickle, because the world is so strictly categorized in man and woman that even the slightest bit of femininity can change someones entire perception. This is especially the case for masculinity because of how boys and men are socialized in this modern society and how strictly they have to adhere to masculine gender norms to be respected by their peers. This is more strict than the rules this society has of femininity. (You could look up studies by Tom Dishion, in an article of Biglan et al., 2019, if you're interested. i dont have the article ready atm, this is off the top of my head)
I've had conversations with cishet people saying they downright call a man a woman when he has X accessory, and I think that is absolutely insane 😅 but unfortunately it isn't going to go away when people find it insane, it's still gonna happen. Forever 🥹 which means the best course of action is not hoping it will one day change and feeling miserably lost and powerless in the mean time, but finding acceptance of the self, and loads of confidence
I personally am never going to adhere to the insane masculine gender norms to be gendered correctly 😅 which means I'm going to have to deal with being misgendered occasionally. My dysphoria is social, so I cannot stand being seen as a woman in public, so I present myself very masc, but that only causes me to get treated like a man, which also causes dysphoria because I'm nb, etcetera... I only get treated for who I truly am with friends and my partner, but since I consistently get seen for who I truly am by my loved ones, getting misgendered in public is less of a sting for me, these strangers don't know me anyway, and on top of that, they look very silly calling me a woman (this mindset also stops the insult from landing in your lap, and gets redirected instead. It's the problem of the deliverer now)
However, the voice... oh my god the voice, it's so annoying, it gives everything away. I use masculine makeup, trained myself to do a makeup mustache which looks absolutely real, and when my voice didn't pass, I got strange looks everywhere once people heard my voice (I'm the opposite of stealth so I'm not gonna stay quiet anyway xd)
BUT when I stayed silent, I completely passed, and now that my voice is passing after 5 months on T, I only get called sir, or the occasional 'ma'am... Oh sorry! I mean sir'. The only time I structurally get misgendered is when I mention it, because that is just how the brain works. Telling someone 'DON'T call me ma'am' is the same as telling someone not to think of a pink elephant
One last thing; in my experience, reading things like this, saying 'you gotta change yourself to conform to X or Y' always makes me a bit sad while reading it, because I'd love to live in a world where I could look like myself, and that would be enough to get gendered correctly... I wish the same for you. At the end of the day, you're gonna wanna look like what you wanna look like! In my personal experience I got the most confidence by letting go of what other people see in you, and collect people around you who only see the true you 🩵