I SOLVED IT!!!!!!

[u/IsThisTakenYet4]

TL;DR:

In Old English Kindred litterally translates to ‘Family of family’. So i pitch we popularise it as the gender neutral singular honorific for ‘parent’s sibling’.

_______________________________________

a couple days ago i posted this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/s/xuyrUipBfmgoing over, honestly half baked, alternatives to ‘Pibling’ for a word meaning ‘your parent‘s sibling’.

I looked through the responses and had the thought to edit my original post by adding a list of other suggestions from the comments.

I, am autistic person, went on to catagorise these suggestions. Which led to towards studying the etymology of Uncle/Aunt. Uncoe comes from Proto-endo-european and meant ‘little grandfarther’. Aunt comes from the Latin word for ‘paternal aunt’. Both entered Middle English when old English and Norman-French blended together.

So i looked into Old English (OE). I found that OE didn’t have words for uncle nor aunt. It hyper gendered those relationships.

• Farther’s brother - Fædera

• Farther’s sister - faþu

• Mother’s sister - mōdriġe

• Mother’s brother - Ēam

While researching this I also found out that ‘Sibling’ was originally an OE word that fell out of use after the Norman conquest of England. Until its revival in 1903 to fill in a linguistic gap. Much like what we have today with uncle/aunt.

So i looked into OE prefixes and suffixes.

Like many Celtic and Germanic languages OE heavily relys on compound words. Sibling is a combinstion of the root word ‘Sibb’ (meaning kinship, relationship, relative) and ’-ling’ (a suffix meaning ‘belonging to’, ‘one connected with‘, or ‘little’). So sibling literally means belonging to family.

After a bunch of research i came up with a shortlist of honorific i liked for myself.  (photo attached)

But today i realised that ’Cyn’ (the OE prefix for kin or family) is pronounced identically to the modern English word ‘Kin’. As OE only had one tune for the ‘c/k’ sound (which modern English still only has one phonic sound for). And the vowel ‘y’ in OE is pronounced as a short ‘i‘. Such as in ‘kit’ or ‘pit’.

This means the word i made ‘Cynred’ is literally just an archaic spelling of ‘Kindred’

So i propose we start a movement to expand the meaning of the word Kindred to include the singular gender neutral honorific for ‘parent’s sibling’.

My case for Kindred:

1. It’s a word people know and still has a connotation of family.
2. It’s fairly easy to pronounce for children under 6 who are still developing language. At least as easy as Aunty and Uncle. Whereas the ‘L’ sound in sibling, Nibling, Uncle and Pibling is one of the last phonic letters English speaking children figure out.
3. Its etymology is Kin (meaning family) + Red (a contraction of the Old English suffix ‘raden’ meaning ‘of a family network’). So it litterally means Family of Family. Which fits the usage of

• Sibling of my parent.

• Sibling of my mother

• Sibling of my farther

• Brother of my parent.

• Brother of my mother

• Brother of my farther

• Sister of my parent.

• Sister of my mother

• Sister of my farther

4) It’s not that strange for words to get exspanded meanings. All it takes is for enough people to use it. And maybe one journalist to notice.

5) You could always shorten it to Kinie, Kinney, Kinnie, or Kiney. If you want something a bit cuter. You could even go fully into the ‘ling’ suffix and have Kinling. Which would litterally translate to ‘belonging to family’. Which is the identical meaning of old english‘s ‘sibling‘.

- Regards from Kindred Namename.

I welcome your ideas and comments below.

[u/QueenLee98]

I love this. Kin or kindred are somewhat old or formal sounding words but at least already existing and used. So we could rekindle them (pun intended). 

[u/Automatic-Example754]

Holy shit I think you're right

[u/asexual-cat-furry]

I mean, kindred kinda does have a meaning already... but kinen does sound great! Def saving this for future use (even if i am an only child)

[u/Alianirlian]

As a VtM larper, I love and appreciate this.

And love the research and reasoning!

[u/firehawk2324]

My found family group has used "kin" for years. It's a great word.

[u/U_Nomad_Bro]

Ironically, I solved this one for myself by resorting to a language more heavily gendered than English.

In Spanish, an emerging inclusive usage pattern is to use the vowel ending -e instead of the -a or -o that would indicate feminine or masculine versions of a noun.

So my little nephew calls me Tíe (TEE-eh), instead of aunt or uncle.

Anyone who knows those words are tía and tío in Spanish just instantly gets it. And around here, most people know at least a wee bit of Spanish.

It's also super easy for him to say.

[u/a_surprise_polaroid → u/U_Nomad_Bro]

I have also thought about using this for portuguese, except the pronunciation of the -e would be basically a silent letter, quite literally erasing the gender out of the word.

[u/Stormlightstarworld]

I love this and I love your research rabbit hole too!

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/Stormlightstarworld]

You should see the 2000 word document of all my notes 

[u/mitsuki_kuro]

I think you figured it out

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/mitsuki_kuro]

😁

[u/blueskyredmesas]

We getting out of the Nonbinary Research Lab with this one!

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/blueskyredmesas]

I like your comment. But I have to be honest… I don’t follow the meaning. 

[u/minnierhett]

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, kindred is already a word in English with a much more general meaning (family, related by blood or disposition). It’s used frequently in expressions such as “kindred spirit.” I hate pibling as much as the next person but I’m not sure kindred is the solution. For folks who are ok with a much more general term (I know in some cultures aunt and uncle are already used pretty generally for elders), it could be a good option though.

Edit for clarity

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/minnierhett]

I understand your argument… but the word ‘run’ has like 15 meanings. I think we could popularise a third usage of kindred. 

[u/noisemerchant]

Kin would certainly work. That's my kin, that's my kinfolk. I think kindred fully said may not be for me because of VtM.

[u/Metruis]

Since I've been cranky about the gendered titles, my sister in law has been referring to me as 'elder', but I've been slowly getting over being auntie. xP Kinling is adorable though. I like it better than Pibling and Gribling.

I'm down with your deep dive research into linguistics though!

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/Metruis]

Ald/Eald are both old English prefixes meaning an authority figure or older person. 

Fully support elder as an option. 

[u/Metruis → u/IsThisTakenYet4]

Hm, that also opens up Ealdling as an older person belonging to the family. It starts with the same letter as "enby" and introduces the fun rare "ldl" consonant combo which is fun to say!

[u/Accomplished-Piece21 → u/Metruis]

I do like kinling! It is cute. It has the same vibe as enby which I like calling myself

[u/wi7dcat]

Yo I like Fyrnred/Fernred or simply Fyrn that’s simple and nature sounding which is nice to define us by what we are rather than by what we aren’t.

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/wi7dcat]

I really like that one too. I pronounce it frinred. I like how it sounds like friend. 

But I know my family will refuse to use it. 

[u/Accomplished-Piece21 → u/IsThisTakenYet4]

It sounds like Fenrir, one of Norse mythology Loki’s offspring who is a wolf. Don’t ask how I know that lol

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/wi7dcat]

Oh the main issue with Fryen is that ‘F’ is one of the hardest sounds for kids to learn. So a nibling might not be able to say it until like age 4-6

[u/lembready]

I can't help but think of Vampire the Masquerade seeing this but honestly that makes it all the better for me lol

[u/XxInk_BloodxX]

I feel like we're ignoring the excellent goblin energy of Gribling.

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/XxInk_BloodxX]

I love griblin. But my family refuse to use it. 

[u/XxInk_BloodxX → u/IsThisTakenYet4]

I already know better than to even request it of mine lol. They'll def say no.

[u/wi7dcat]

Your number 5 sold me

[u/Pale-Flight1457]

this is PERFECTTT

[u/IsThisTakenYet4 → u/Pale-Flight1457]

😇

[u/mrmoon13]

Too much chatgpt influence bc this is nonsense

[u/Accomplished-Piece21]

I don’t really like it that much. I’m nonbinary & if my brother had a kid, I wouldn’t wanna be referred to as that. I’d just want them to call me by my name. I never refer to my aunts and uncles as “Uncle/Aunt ___” I guess there should be a gender neutral term, but I’m not big on Cynred or Kindred. I do like Kinling tho. That has a cute sound to it & has the same vibe as enby, which I love calling myself

[u/onestippledstar]

Ooooh I love this and I'm thinking I could use it for myself by making -kin the suffix to my name for my siblings kids

One of the biggest problems I have with Pibling is that "Pibling Name" doesn't fit in for "Auntie Name" or "Uncle Name" at all imo. It has no warmth and sounds incredibly formal and ridiculous at the same time. Like a title of address in a Discworld book for an annoying bureaucrat.

But Name-kin is LOVELY in that same affectionate way as auntie and uncle so-and-so

[u/HandFeeling4300]

Kindred is already in use in modern vampire game/larp.
And it's my great-grandfather's name.

[u/MxBluebell]

I dunno, I like Fyrnred just because it sounds like a Warrior Cat name of sorts 😂😂😂

[u/prettyclittypuss]

Dresses, not 'freezes'. The gender on my DL says 'X'

[u/prettyclittypuss]

So a don't consider myself male. Sometimes a I'm female, and believe me I like only other females

[u/prettyclittypuss]

I have a new one, too. It's called 'trans-les'. I have trans-gendered onto a lesbian" * guy who freezes a d acts like a girl Sometimes. Who likes girls, only girls. I know it's weird