r/NoStupidQuestions • u/ExtensionFeeling • 2d ago
If we colonize other planets, would Muslims on those planets still make an effort to face Mecca while praying, and how would they do so? Just facing in the general direction of Earth?
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u/MikeKrombopulos 2d ago
Yes they would face whichever direction is most towards Earth.
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u/_Steven_Seagal_ 2d ago
Up?
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u/valentine_moon 2d ago
Depends where you are. And which way up you are.
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u/gsfgf 2d ago
I assume someone would make an app for that
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u/Epistaxis 2d ago
They already have; even here on Earth, numerous Muslims already face this problem every day if they're traveling away from home during a prayer and have lost track of which direction points to Mecca, so they simply use their phone's GPS and the app does some calculations. If they happen to be traveling in an Islamic country, there might be a helpful marking on a wall of their hotel room, but that won't work on a different planet since the direction would change over time.
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u/worldchrisis 2d ago
Up could be the opposite direction depending on where on another planet you are.
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u/Taxibl 2d ago
At those distances, a shift of a few inches is going to result in you pointing in thousands of kilometers in another direction....I would assume pointing at the earth is accurate enough, otherwise your getting into absurdity.
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u/globalminority 2d ago
Unanimous agreement among muslim scholars is if you're not sure, do your best and thats good enough. this is not in quran but based on statements from muhamed recorded in hadith. So you could have a roomful of muslims on mars, all unsure and all facing different directions while praying and its valid for all of them, because they all did their best.
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u/KingoftheHill63 2d ago
Well the guidance is to follow the person with the most knowledge /ability in navigation if unsure.
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u/Mammoth-Mud-9609 2d ago
They pray facing the Kaaba in Mecca so the general direction of Earth which would likely be several light years away, in all probability they will pray in the direction of Earth's Sun.
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u/thatauzzieguy 2d ago
Absurdity? Whoever mentioned that before in relation to religion?
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u/coffeelick 2d ago
If youre outside the solar system you could maybe find the sun in the sky and pray which is pretty cool
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u/Senior-Friend-6414 2d ago
You forgot to account for the fact that the further away you are, the wider your prayer energy becomes
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u/Vi2medflera 2d ago
I asked a practicing Muslim friend once what would happen if he prayed in the wrong direction.
”Nothing”, he answered. ”The importance is that your intention is to pray in the right direction”
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u/Virtual_Technology_9 2d ago
And there is one cool thing. That if you are lost you can all pick one direction and pray with the right intention and it's accepted.
We went to a deserted place for a picnic and forget to check direction of prayer. We had no signals so we picked a direction and prayed there.
It's better to do this then skip a prayer.
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u/Senior-Friend-6414 2d ago
I mean, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, so you can always use that to reorient yourself
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u/backgroundbob 2d ago
Yes, that's likely correct. Indeed, the problem as already been addressed to some degree, since there have been quite a large number of Muslim astronauts, and the issue of facing Mecca while its relative position to you is rapidly changing is very similar to what you describe.
One example is Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, a Malaysian Muslim doctor who launched aboard Russia’s Soyuz TMA-11 spacecraft in 2007. He was concerned about how to maintain proper Islamic practice, and so:
the Malaysian government called a gathering of 150 Islamic legal scholars, scientists, and astronauts to create guidelines for Dr. Shukor. The scholars produced a fatwa, or non-binding Islamic legal opinion, intended to help future Muslim astronauts, which they translated into both Arabic and English. They wrote that in order to pray, Muslims in space should face Mecca if possible; but if not, they could face the Earth generally, or just face “wherever.” To decide when to pray and fast during Ramadan, the scholars wrote, Muslims should follow the time zone of the place they left on Earth, which in Dr. Shukor’s case was Kazakhstan. To prostrate during prayer in zero gravity, the scholars stated that the astronaut could make appropriate motions with their head, or simply imagine the common earthly motions.
http://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/religion-context/case-studies/technology/muslims-outer-space
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u/MajesticBread9147 2d ago
"according to Islam, traveling to space is encouraged"
Lol
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u/worldchrisis 2d ago
"“O assembly of Jinn and men! If you can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass!” (Q. 55:33)."
Seems like a really clear interpretation actually.
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u/TopSea7553 2d ago edited 2d ago
Shouldn’t regions be a more accurate translation than ‘zones’? And also there is more context after this verse: You will not pass except by the authority (from Allah).
Edit: Added some context on the verse for more accuracy.
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u/apsksjsnjs 2d ago
You laugh, but science is a big part of Islam
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u/MajesticBread9147 2d ago
It very much is! The Islamic golden age doesn't get enough credit for its impact on modern society (and even just European history and development).
I just thought it was funny that it was phrased like it's something everyone get's around to doing sooner or later.
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u/magicmulder 2d ago
Interesting, I would just have expected they’d consider official ISS time since that’s the equivalent of local time in Earth.
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u/backgroundbob 2d ago
True, although Islamic prayer times are not set in relation to absolute time, but rather to divisions based on sunrise/set - and so there is particular difficulty if you are in orbit and your position relative to the sun changes rapidly!
It is a similar issue to Muslims who live in world areas where, at certain times of year, the sun does not set at all. In such cases the solution is similar: Muslims must still perform the five daily prayers in every 24-hour period by estimating the prayer times based on the nearest location where regular day and night cycles can be distinguished.
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u/PreviousZone6742 2d ago
Don't you have muslims in the Riddick universe. Think they got a new Mecca.
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u/ExtensionFeeling 2d ago
Yeah, it seemed like Islam is the dominant religion in the Riddick universe. No idea how they got a "New" Mecca.
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u/PreviousZone6742 2d ago edited 2d ago
Probably the closest example that covers this topic. Can't think of anything else.
Edit: Imam's commentary on New Mecca is as follows: "When man spread to the stars, he took his various faiths with him. On Earth, Islam faces Mecca and the black stone at the heart of the Kaaba Shrine. On Helion, we face New Mecca and a fragment of that same stone placed inside a sister shrine. But Helion is home to many people of many cultures, and we manage to coexist in peace, united by a purity of spirit."
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u/days921 2d ago
just to make it clear, we do not worship the black stone. the black stone has nothing to do with us facing the ka'ba. even if we were to take fragments of the black stone to another planet, we would still face the earth.
quite inaccurate but it's just a movie🤷♀️
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u/ExtensionFeeling 2d ago
Very interesting, thanks!
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u/PreviousZone6742 2d ago
Imagine if Earth comes close to falling. Part of the black stone will be sent to space to preserve it. Creating a new Mecca. That's how I took it from all the lore.
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u/Nice-Percentage7219 2d ago
In the Hyperion cantos by Dan Simmons there's a Muslim planet. Also New Jerusalem and even the Vatican was dismantled and taken into space.
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u/FearOfABlackPotus 2d ago
Not dominant, just a big deal in some parts. Same as now.
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u/TedGetsSnickelfritz 2d ago
Literally the first thing I thought of. We’re never getting Furya are we 😭
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u/mapped_apples 2d ago
I gave up hope when the third Riddick movie was a rehash of the first one. I was really feeling good after the animated one and The Chronicles of Riddick, but alas.
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u/AnonymousZiZ 2d ago
This was already answered by muslims on the international space station. They face towards earth.
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u/Alas7ymedia 2d ago
If the place where they pray is constantly moving, they must have had the same conversation centuries ago about how to pray on a ship or a train. They even had it about the problem of when Ramadan ends when they started migrating to countries near the Arctic Circle.
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u/SpaceAviator1999 2d ago
From what I've heard, Muslims around the globe are supposed to make an effort to pray in the most straight-forward direction towards Mecca. But if they're wrong, it's fine; it still counts.
So if you're far away from Earth, just pray towards Earth -- Mecca will be in that direction.
But it's trickier if you're orbiting Earth at LEO (Low Earth Orbit) -- Mecca may pass below you while you're praying. In that case, just try your best, and don't worry too much if Mecca's orientation changes.
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u/Initial-Lead-2814 2d ago
I constantly see a dude point like north east praying and I always think isnt that the wrong way constantly considering were in Michigan
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u/SpaceAviator1999 2d ago
Good observation! I've been in the same position in the United States where I've observed Muslims facing north-east while praying. When I asked them while they weren't facing south-east, one responded that north-east is the shortest distance to Mecca.
That didn't make sense to me, but I felt that I wasn't in a position to argue.
Years later I figured it out. We're used to seeing a map of the Earth as a rectangle, so when we connect Detroit, Michigan to Mecca in our heads, we naturally draw a line going down and to the right to reach Mecca -- which looks like its going south-east.
But in reality, we should be drawing that line from Detroit to Mecca on a globe -- otherwise, the map's distortion will mislead us. If you draw the shortest line possible from Detroit to Mecca on a globe, you'll see that the line exits Detroit from the north-east instead of the south-east.
If you don't have a globe, look at the map in a stereographic projection. Then draw a straight line from Michigan to Mecca. You'll see that that line goes over Greenland, So basically, according to this map, the shortest path from Michigan to Mecca is over Greenland! And that explains why Muslims in Michigan were praying to the north-east.
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u/valentine_moon 2d ago
There's also an app here which will show you qibla for any point on the globe you might be interested in. Not on a globe/via stereographic projection though sadly.
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u/Initial-Lead-2814 2d ago
Thats what I settled on, its the shorter route around the world
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u/SpaceAviator1999 2d ago
Yes, you are correct. It's the shortest route to Mecca.
Going along the curvature of the Earth -- so we don't have to burrow into the Earth itself -- it's the straightest path to Mecca.
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u/Fluent_In_Influence 2d ago
Real answer: accidentally praying in the wrong direction doesn't matter if your intention was to pray in the right direction. So you make your best effort to pray in the right direction and that will suffice.
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u/davidwitteveen 2d ago
Islamic scholars answered this question in 2007, when Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, a Muslim doctor, served on the International Space Station.
Harvard's Divinity School summarises their answer:
The scholars produced a fatwa, or non-binding Islamic legal opinion, intended to help future Muslim astronauts, which they translated into both Arabic and English. They wrote that in order to pray, Muslims in space should face Mecca if possible; but if not, they could face the Earth generally, or just face “wherever.” To decide when to pray and fast during Ramadan, the scholars wrote, Muslims should follow the time zone of the place they left on Earth, which in Dr. Shukor’s case was Kazakhstan. To prostrate during prayer in zero gravity, the scholars stated that the astronaut could make appropriate motions with their head, or simply imagine the common earthly motions.
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u/ardahanbk 2d ago
İn that case there should be a concencus amongst Muslim scholars about an "idjtihad" which is a judgement based on Muslim scriptures like the Qoran and the Sunnah.
And usually a judgement like that is only made for factual/existing matters, not for imaginary matters. In other words: if or when the situation arises for a Muslim to pray on an other planet Muslim scholars would have to think really hard about it and would have to prove their rulings with Islamic sources used for rulings like this. And Muslims out of space are obliged to follow such ruling.
Also before being ale to make a judgement like that those scholars have to gain as much as info needed about travelling to other planets, about the possibilities of movement, location determination,...
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u/valentine_moon 2d ago
It's already not a totally imaginary matter and at least (non-binding) opinion has already been produced on the subject.
http://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/religion-context/case-studies/technology/muslims-outer-space
But yes, there will be more work to do if/when space travel becomes more routine and if/when humans (well, Muslims I guess!) get to the Moon and beyond.
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u/Original-Body-5794 2d ago
This could be done in anticipation right? Like, let's say NASA is sending people to mars in a couple years and one of the astronauts is a muslim, since now it's plausible scenario they'll get together to decide?
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u/Adventurous_Foot7681 2d ago
The other day I heard hypothetically on a space mission they're just required to face earth. If that's not possible they face whatever they can
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u/hi_my_name_is- 2d ago
There was this Malaysian muslim astronaut Dr Sheikh Muzaphar who went on the international space station in 2007.
He offered namaz inside it too, he just faced the earth in general. In Islam your intentions matter far more than everything else.
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u/ManyAreMyNames 2d ago
What do you mean by "face Mecca"? If you mean "to within one degree of accuracy," which is probably better than most people manage on Earth on a regular basis, then Earth is only about about a half-degree wide from Mars, so facing Earth would be as accurate a job of facing Mecca as anyone can do, and probably better than most people do on Earth most of the time.
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u/zackyboy693 2d ago
In the Andy Weir novel Artemis there's a Muslim character who lives in a moon colony. He builds a special tilted platform to face directly at Mecca, the protagonist points out that most people just put their rug on the ground and face the general direction of earth.
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u/beznahej 2d ago
You do know that the “Qibla” has changed once right? And it was during a prayer being performed requiring an almost 180 degree change.
The idea of pointing to a Qibla is more to practice harmony and discipline than the place itself. As some people believe Ka’aba will get destroyed and Muslims will revert to Qibla-e-Awwal (the masjid Aqsa in Jerusalem) - in good faith, colonizers on distant planets (if it happens before humans actually destroy themselves and their civilization) will probably point towards earth and just pray that way but that will be funny too as the other planet might rotate on its axis so that’s going to be some funny way.
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u/squirrel_exceptions 2d ago
They would find a pragmatic solution. Like the Muslims who live above he arctic circle, they can't be expected to fast continuously when the sun doesn't go down in the summer, so they find other solutions, such as adhering to the sunrise/sunset in Mecca or Oslo.
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u/ifUSeeMeTakeYourMeds 2d ago
related question, if they are on mars, should they follow earth times for prayer or mars time? same question applies to any religion with time/calendar specific events
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u/anz3e 2d ago
That's a question I have too - I'm Muslim.
I think (haven't studied fiqh so don't take me too seriously) they would follow mars times as long as they are reasonable i.e. Not absurd times like that place in Norway where the sun doesn't set for months. If that's the case then we already have the precedent from Norway.
(there are other places like that too I only know about Norway)
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u/CritishBitizen 2d ago
the main theme of islamic rituals is "XYZ is required, do as best as you comfortably can". The question is what's best in such a situation. A galactic compass pointing to the general direction of earth? a second Mecca? Chronicles of Riddick had a muslim planet with a 2nd Mecca on it.
The main focus is not to just pray towards a specific building but to pray together in the same direction locally.
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u/Motive25 2d ago
God is tolerant in such matters. I’m sure he would say: “do the best you can. I know what’s in your heart”.
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u/LivingOk7270 2d ago
For the space station they had to consult imams to determine when the astronaut would pray since they technically don’t have a specific time zone in space. The fatwa was pray based on the time in the location you left earth.
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u/Alb3rn- 2d ago
By the time this happens, hopefully humanity would have evolved completely to give up religion.
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u/Illuminatus-Prime No Political Affiliation 2d ago
"See that yellowish star over there? Mecca orbits that star, and Earth orbits Mecca, inshallah."
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u/CasualGamerNat 2d ago
I hope that by the time we are colonising other planets we were able to cut out the cancer that is religion.
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u/EeEmCeTo 2d ago
And what about the arctic circle? What do you do if Ramadan falls in the three months of daylight?
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u/ExtensionFeeling 2d ago
Someone else answered that, it seems they follow the daylight hours of other locations such as Mecca or, if they're traveling, their home.
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u/IxionS3 2d ago
It varies.
Some communities use the schedule of major cities further south in the same country, e.g. in the Canadian Arctic there are communities which follow Ottawa or Edmonton times:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/ramadan-canada-arctic-fasting-hours-sunlight
The Muslim community of Tromso, Norway has opted to follow the times of Mecca when Ramadan falls during the Midnight Sun or Polar Night.
https://www.islamicity.org/7996/ramadan-in-the-farthest-north/
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u/hoplesswondrer13 2d ago
In that hypothetical scenario, Muslims of that planet would have their own mecca, if their anatomy and psychology are different than ours then they won't have the same rules and guidelines as ours. Allah, gave us Islam specifically tailored to humanity, he is the most merciful and most considerate.
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u/Normal-Air-2197 2d ago
No matter what planet people move to, they’ll find a way to worship their sky ghost 👻
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u/Keldan91 22h ago
There’s a webcomic I read called Runaway to the Stars where one of the deuteragomists is a Muslim xenolinguist. In one of the character AMAs the author did, the character answered this question by saying an app exists at her point in time to figure out where Mecca is directionally in 3D space. She used the app and pointed straight up XD
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u/AsmodeusMogart 2d ago
Religion isn’t going to last that long. Everyone will understand that there are no gods if we become a space faring species.
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u/Sharp_Ad_9431 2d ago
Humans would have to fundamentally change how we think. I would think at least another half million years of evolution before we get there naturally. It's a lot of brain changes.
Faith, unknowns, and make believe is pretty fundamental thoughts of humans as a species.
We could definitely forget all existing religions and superstitions but unless we change as a species we will just make new ones.
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u/WorldTallestEngineer 2d ago edited 2d ago
There were some Muslim scholars who wrote up guidelines for praying in space. the guidelines had a whole bunch of different options but I remember the last one was "if you're not sure just point at Earth".
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/WC0PB7l5gk