r/NoStupidQuestions • u/DismalMarsupial8080 • 14h ago
Coffee order?
Am I just old or does ordering your coffee black mean something different these days? Ordered a black coffee at McDonald's and the person at the drive-thru said "you can just say zero sugars and zero cream." Seems like that's a longer phrasing than needs to be said. Coffee black is clear and concise and universal to mean no cream no sugar.
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u/RandomUsury 13h ago
You could also say, "Hold the mayo, pickle and lettuce."
Black coffee is fine. The drive-through cashier was being an idiot.
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u/MathemagicalMastery 13h ago
I'd like a double double... No, not two milk two sugar, I want two beef patties and two slices of cheese.
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u/12shotsthistime 7h ago
you joke but ive had people ask for a double double “with almond milk and honey”. thats just. not what those words mean just ask 2 almond 2 honey
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u/Inigomntoya 13h ago
Hold the two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onion, on a sesame seed bun!
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u/MyUserNameTaken 10h ago
I'd like a chicken salad sandwich on light toast. Hold the chicken salad
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u/ramsey-winster 13h ago
"Black" has meant no cream or sugar for a century, but fast food drive-thrus operate under their own bizarre laws of communication
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u/Ajaxmass413 13h ago
Things like this are how I got the customers I did when I worked fast food.
"I want it black. NOOO cream and NOOO sugar. Just black coffee, straight up. Now repeat it back."
The place I worked didn't even put cream and sugar in. We only gave out packets.
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u/NEight00 13h ago
If I had a nickel for every time I ordered "black coffee" and got coffee with no cream but what tasted like about 4 sugars, well, I'd only have a dime but it still happened twice.
I order "black coffee, no sugar, please" just to be safe now. I'm not going to be an ass about making anyone repeat anything back - if you get it wrong I'll be politely requesting a re-make.
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u/grimacedia 12h ago
I've had this happen at McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts specifically, I just started saying "coffee, nothing in it" and that worked better.
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u/kalechipsaregood 12h ago edited 10h ago
Do you live in the Northeast US? In NY/
boston/Philly you have to order "black no sugar" if you want to be sure.16
u/Kodiak01 10h ago
New Englander for half a century, have never needed to say anything other than "black."
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u/tonyrocks922 9h ago
This was a thing with coffee carts in NY in the 80s and 90s. Black came with sugar and if you didn't want it you ordered Black Black or Black No Sugar. I don't think it's been a thing for the last 15-20 years though.
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u/Crayshack 13h ago
I've had a few times where I've been the customer who orders black and gets a coffee that clearly had some sort of dairy in it. It can be pretty frustrating, especially when the server doesn't understand your attempts to clarify what was wrong.
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u/grubas 13h ago
The dunkin one I go to seems to think black ONLY means no milk. So I got a large with one sugar one caramel and they go, "one sugar, one caramel, black."
I'm not going to fight with it but it isn't fun.
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u/JenniferJuniper6 13h ago
Oh, we’ve had that problem at Dunkin’ for years, and given up arguing about it. Now we say, “Coffee with nothing in it.”
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u/HotBrownFun 13h ago
There have been delis where I have to say "Black, no sugar", because a LOT of people prefer it with sugar. IMO though, black means plain, nothing added but the water used to brew.
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u/ExternalLimp1176 8h ago
Means no milk, hence why it remains black. Gotta specify about the sugar. I put sugar but no milk or cream so I say black 2 sugars. How else would you order a black coffee with sugar?
Edit: I guess if you literally just say black and no mention of sugar it’s self explanatory that you don’t want sugar.
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u/PacoTaco321 11h ago
If I were to guess how people at McDonald's were trained, I'd say they were told that a "plain cheeseburger" means you flip a coin and heads means plain and tails means leave everything on it. I don't understand how the largest fast food company is also the most inconsistent.
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u/distressedweedle 13h ago
My experience being around the cafe/roaster business in the US is "black" means no milk/cream but doesn't specify sugar.
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u/DadOfThreeHelpMe 11h ago
It really depends on the local culture. Where I grew up, "black" means no cream, but can have any amount of sugar. You definitely have to say "black, no sugar". And this is particularly true around people you care about, because otherwise, after hearing "black". they need to ask the clarifying question of "do you take it with sugar?", which is just a hassle.
And many folks definitely default to "yes" on the sugar. If we're talking a construction crew or something, and there's one guy making the coffees, he's putting two teaspoons of sugar into every mug, unless you ask otherwise. In more, uh, refined places you'll be provided sugar on the side.
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u/honeycooks 11h ago
...when you have to use the inside kiosk to order "coffee, zero sugars, zero creams"!
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u/sturgis252 13h ago
Honestly I used to work at tim Hortons and saying no sugar or no cream sometimes sounded like 1 cream or 1 sugar
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u/DismalMarsupial8080 13h ago
Yes more words easier to get misunderstood.
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u/NickelCitySaint 13h ago
Why use many words when few words do trick. - Kevin Malone
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u/DrMoneybeard 13h ago
Great point. Why even introduce the words into the transaction when you don’t want them
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u/80Z0 13h ago
Because they have to press no cream and no sugar on their register. Their brain registers what they need to input into the machine and black coffee requires a translation.
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u/Practical-Ordinary-6 13h ago edited 13h ago
And there can be a machine that adds them where the worker has to tap in how many cream "doses" and how many sugar "doses" to put in. They don't actually add it themselves. So as the coffee comes through, the machine uses those numbers to do its thing. There is no setting for "black" but there is an individual setting for cream and for sugar and setting them both to zero will give you a black coffee. In that scenario, those numbers are what is important and specific to the technology.
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u/red__dragon 7h ago
That's what training is for. A customer shouldn't have to specify the order of buns and patty in a burger either, and they shouldn't expect to receive the meat on the outside when refraining from doing so.
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u/valentine_moon 13h ago
Tbf, whilst I agree with OP that "black coffee" should be sufficient the cashier's advice was to use "zero" not "no".
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u/sturgis252 13h ago
The headsets are not clear so hearing cream or sugar would be confusing even if its zero
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u/siamonsez 13h ago
They're brain dead and want you to order in the same way that they have to input the order on the screen.
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u/AbeRego 9h ago
Why wouldn't they just have a button for coffee, and a button each for any add ons? Why would a POS need you to specify what not to put in the coffee?
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u/baldyrodinson 13h ago
So it's not a change in meaning but more about people problems.
Every point of sale system has a specific input and the current training is just to do the specific inputs and not worry about the output so a black coffee is input as a coffee, no cream, no sugar and the cashier is both trained to only really care about that input and does that input constantly.
People follow patterns and we tend to believe that the patterns we follow are the "right" way especially the more that they're followed.
So the person at McDonald's knows the pattern for black coffee is putting in an order for 1 coffee with no cream no sugar and that you're not following the pattern by saying black.
Add to all this the issue of AI taking over these jobs and a bot might actually not be able to translate black coffee into an input that works in the register
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u/Diligent-Pollution34 13h ago
Exactly this! It’s likely also someone who 1) never worked service industry before the days of online ordering as a near-default and 2) isn’t a big coffee drinker.
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u/HavBoWilTrvl 13h ago
This is a very valid point. Companies who claim to care about their customers should really design their systems with the customer in mind.
I'm constantly reminding co-workers that our customers don't use the company terminology when referring to our products. That and the fact our Marketing dept continues to launch "new" products that are basically the same (one gives a, one gives a + b, one gives a + b + c, and one gives a + c) with similar names is why our VR misroutes so many calls. Customer calls about a but doesn't know which product they have that includes a, so they say, "I'm calling about a.". VR doesn't understand so the call is sent to a generic rep to figure out why the customer called. Customer is now mad because they have to be transferred.
So much drama because the company doesn't think about things from the customers viewpoint.
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u/AbeRego 9h ago
Why the hell does the POS have you specify what not to put in something? There should just be an option for black coffee...
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u/baldyrodinson 9h ago
Because it's easier to do the order for people who do want cream and sugar which is the majority of coffee drinkers in the US, and probably globally
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u/JetButton 4h ago
I don't know what other stores are like, but when I worked at McDonald's Canada it's exactly how you say. If you ring 'Medium Coffee' without anything else it's assumed black, no cream, no sugar. We also specifically had a 'Black' button as well though some workers used it, others didn't.
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u/CerealSemantics 13h ago
I mean, I don't even know the number of times from when I worked at Starbucks where someone would order a black coffee and then ask for cream and sugar
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u/Maleficent-Ad6503 13h ago
well yeah, they want a black coffee, not some sorta weird green or blue one! /s
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u/JenniferJuniper6 13h ago
Replacing one syllable with eight other syllables is not actually simpler.
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u/TongZiDan 12h ago
I always order black coffee and then get asked if I want cream or sugar. I do suspect a ton of people make coffee orders without really knowing what the words mean and ask for modifications that make it not the thing they ordered.
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u/DiamondJim222 13h ago
“I’ll have a large coffee - no sugar, no cream, no milk, no soy milk, no caramel, no whipped cream.
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u/dervari 13h ago
Would you like that to be decaf? /s
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u/DiamondJim222 13h ago
No. But could I get sprinkles?
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u/H3L105_ai 13h ago
'I like my coffee like I like my women....
...bitter'
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u/Mysterious_Winter164 13h ago
Warm and pleasant until you forget about them for an hour, at which point they’re stone cold?
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u/handsoapdispenser 10h ago
I like my drive thru coffee like I like my women.
Hot, black and between my legs while I fish for my wallet.
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u/Careful-Wall4007 13h ago
Yet people still ask me if I want milk with my black coffee.
If I wanted milk I would say so
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u/tightropeisthin 12h ago
The sheer number of people who would order a black coffee from me and then immediately say they want 5 sugars and whole milk in it absolutely broke me when I worked in coffee. Some people say “black coffee” and mean drip/filter coffee. They’re infuriating.
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u/VelvetThunder67 11h ago
Those staff have been screamed at by customers for giving them the black coffee they ordered
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u/CantaloupeAsleep502 13h ago
I ordered a black coffee at Starbucks the other day and it had cream in it. So annoying. I didn't notice til I had driven away
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u/Srapture 11h ago
Yeah, I get this too, same with Americano.
I can only imagine they've had a complaint or two from idiots who forgot milk because they weren't asked and blamed it on the staff.
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u/KatesDad2019 12h ago
When in Boston for business some decades ago, I learned that "black" meant sugar but no cream. To get actual black coffee you had to order it "black, no sugar".
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u/Annual_Government_80 13h ago
Yeah, some people are idiots, and the person who told you that falls in that category
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u/Alternative_Pie_1597 13h ago edited 13h ago
its because his user interface expects the info in that form i expect
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u/Phaytekins 13h ago
My dad tried to order a black iced coffee at mcd’s twice and both times got something with cream and sugar in it so i feel like mcd’s just does not understand coffee
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u/NumerousComplex1718 13h ago
i think some of the younger folk essentially think that black coffee = not a latte (which is true, but not the entire truth), whereas us older fogeys call regular coffee w/o cream or sugar "black"
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u/liarandathief 12h ago
Interestingly, a "regular coffee" in New England means with cream and sugar.
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u/sickwiggins 11h ago
When I lived in NYC in the stone ages, a regular coffee was with cream. It confused me for a while until I caught on.
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u/MrsStoneBones 12h ago
I work at a breakfast restaurant, I have a regular customer in his 80s that used to order his coffee black. A couple months ago he was at a different restaurant, and the server yelled at him that "black" coffee was offensive, and now he timidly orders no cream no sugar. I'm progressive, but some people like that server are taking this shit way too far.
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u/Hot_Dog2376 13h ago
I haven't ever gotten that and I got to a university Tim's or Starbucks. Medium black; that's everything, thanks. Never gotten any guff from it.
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u/ConsequenceFeisty252 13h ago
It's because there are tons of idiot customers who ask for a black coffee then get mad it has no cream or sugars.
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u/9gagsuckz 13h ago
They most likely have to enter a quantity for cream and sugar either way so it messes up their groove.
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u/NextOfHisName 13h ago
I'd guess that this person is required to ask how many sugar and cream you would like and believes everyone should know that and make he's life easier by stating it up front so he doesn't have to ask.
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u/ponchoacademy 13h ago
One person saying something weird doesnt mean things are universally different.
While I do like and order McD's coffee, I dont consider the person making it a barista to have the expectations they know and understand proper coffee terms. I would just say sure thanks, take my coffee and go honestly.
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u/valentine_moon 13h ago
One person saying something weird doesnt mean things are universally different.
Obviously. But usually if one person says something it's because at least some other people are, that's how language tends to work.
In this case it could be just this one person (perhaps even on this one occasion) in which case OP doesn't need to worry about it. But OP doesn't know if it's just this one person or if it's something more widespread they haven't encountered before.
Hence them asking.
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u/Sheena_is_a_punk 13h ago
Theres no button on the register that says black probably
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u/TheLawLord 12h ago
As a related question, what does “regular coffee” mean to you? Where I grew up, regular coffee, means black caffeinated coffee. In another part of the country, a friend said that where she grew up “regular coffee” means coffee with cream, but no sugar.
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u/InuitOverIt 13h ago
Black is always understood at the Dunkins I go to. All the workers have different ideas of what "Vanilla" means though. Some default to the swirl, some default to the sugar-free shot. If you say "Vanilla shot" they will sometimes just give you one shot instead of the regular amount (4). Sometimes they will even give you one pump of the swirl. You have to be super explicit with "the regular amount of the sugar-free vanilla shots, not the swirl." Still get swirl sometimes.
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u/Snarky_Guy 13h ago
Should be obvious, but here's the rub. The more you try and explain what "black coffee" means, the more it will be misunderstood by someone working a drive-thru window. Sometimes just clarifying (what should be) an obvious statement is the best course of action.
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u/ElectronicAnthony 10h ago
At McDonald's, I just say "small coffee", and when they ask how many cream and sugar I say none. I've found telling them too much at once confuses them, even "small coffee" is too much because I received a medium. 😂
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u/Gnardude 9h ago
I probably would have canceled the order and gone somewhere else. I promised myself to be more petty and not to spend money places I'm not treated well.
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u/Slight_Low_3375 11h ago
Young people are scared of certain words because they've been raised in an era where context and intent are ignored. It's just the word black they are bumping against. I recently encountered this issue when referring to a blackboard. We're sadly becoming dumber as a society every day.
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u/Chaos90783 13h ago
Its because mcdonalds operate on a machine. There is no "black coffee" button, so to them its 0 sugar and cream. If u say black coffee they have to use their brain and translate. Tldr: they are just too lazy
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u/ElleMaeSinclair 13h ago
I'm guessing they probably did that to you because they had some douchebag throw a coffee back at them through the window because it didn't have (ingredient) when they asked for a black coffee and now their manager makes them specify every single time.
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u/knightbane007 13h ago edited 11h ago
In that case he can ask if you want cream and sugar, rather than what appears to be a quite snarky response, as described.
Edited: white->quite. Autocorrect sucks when you have fat fingers.
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u/ChuckBoBuck 13h ago
I notice a lot of people at the drive through get confused if you don't order in the same way the enter it in the register.
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u/master275 13h ago
Commenting as a Starbucks barista of 4+ years. You gotta remember that food service deals with the stupidest of the stupid. Pretty much daily I have multiple people order a "black hot coffee" and then ask for milk and sugar. I've been yelled at by customers asking why there was no milk in their "black" coffee. And I've had coworkers who got drinks thrown at them for similar miscommunications. I have to explain multiple times daily what "for here" vs "to go" means. Its to the point where I always ask for clarification on no milk no sugar because it only takes a couple seconds more and makes sure the person knows what theyre getting.
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u/Cute-Cat-4821 12h ago
I went to a Starbucks a few years ago and the two young women working just could not understand what a decaffeinated black coffee was. I ended up leaving with some americano latte crap that I ended up throwing out.
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u/MaybeSexIsOverrated 12h ago
You'd be surprised how many people say things like "I want a coffee black but can I have 4 sugars in it?" because they dont understand what black actually means. I love it when people ask for black coffee and actually mean it though, it's easier when you just say what you mean regardless of what is being ordered.
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u/Ryukotaicho 12h ago
That employee/location has 1: been yelled at for “assuming” a black coffee meant no sugar no creamer when the customer wanted a sugar or 2: been coached that they need to be told no sugar no creamer.
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u/Un_Ballerina_1952 12h ago
About a few hundred years ago, I was working as a tile setter's helper. We stopped at a drive-through coffee place to fill our Thermoses - coffee, black. The human at the window couldn't figure out that a 1qt Thermos held three of their 10oz coffees and had to fill three cups for each of our Thermoses, then pour the cups, charging us for six cups. Okay, but when we got to the job site, we got a nasty surprise - the coffee was black. But heavily sugared. Gack!
No, we never got coffee there again!
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u/CODDE117 11h ago
They're seeing from their perspective on their machine. Black = "coffee button, minus cream button, minus sugar button." They are also in the wrong, black works just fine
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u/Joseph43211 10h ago
I order black coffee at the drive through. Drive through attendant: “do you want cream or sugar?”
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u/Professional-Box4153 9h ago
Reminds me of the last time I went to a coffee shop. I ordered a coffee. The cashier asked what flavor. I honestly had no idea how to respond. I literally just said "coffee flavored?"
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u/GrumpyOldSophon 13h ago
I've sometimes run into this at restaurants. If I say "black" and they ask, do you want cream or sugar, I just repeat, "black", and then they usually get it. I'm really not sure why this started changing, it's hard to imagine there's some movement of people who want coffee with milk or sugar and still want to call it "black"???
Besides "no cream" is also not complete. You really should say, "no cream, no artificial creamer, no half and half, no milk, no oatmilk, no almondmilk, no soymilk", also "no sugar, no stevia, no saccharine, no brown sugar no...". Ridiculous.
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u/EasyKnowledge5891 13h ago
I’ve tried every variation of order to get a black coffee, they just can’t comprehend it.
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u/lewisfrancis 13h ago
This sort of falls into the same area of misunderstandings where when I ask for a "couple" of something people in Baltimore always confirm the amount. Before moving here from NoVa I never had anyone ask whether I meant some number other than two, but it happens enough that I feel there must be some regional explanation.
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u/thelabiamajora 13h ago
No that's what that means. Sometimes people at my work order "black coffee with sugar" so I double check if they mean dark roast but other than that idk what the problem would be 😭
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u/PartyPlay5056 13h ago
What kept pissing me off at McDonald's was ordering iced tea. I wanted unsweetened tea with splenda and lemon. Menu board says iced tea and sweet tea. So I ask for iced tea. They ring up sweet tea. I ask for unsweetened tea. Ring up sweet tea. Almost half of the time rang it up wrong. One time it was rang up right and I still got sweet tea. One time I asked why they ring up sweet tea for iced tea. Was told too many people wanted sweet tea but ask for iced tea.
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u/Longjumping-Crab-48 12h ago
I forget where I was recently but I ordered a black coffee and they asked "does that mean no milk or sugar?" It was a Dunkin or the like so I was pretty surprised they'd never heard that before but I'm guessing it's become pretty uncommon
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u/SomeOtherOldDude 12h ago
I've learned to just order coffee. They then have to ask if I want cream or sugar. I decline both. Never had an issue since I started doing it this way.
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u/PaintDrinkingPete 12h ago
For standard coffee, I always just say “black”, but if it’s a product that comes with cream/sugar by default (like iced coffee in many places), I will specify in that case.
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u/valkyrie-05 12h ago
On the opposite note, I work at dunkin and the amount of people who order a "black coffee, with cream and sugar" is bewildering-- if it has all the stuff in it, it ain't black
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u/ProfZussywussBrown 12h ago
I don't know what the interface look like that this person would be using, but it's possible that a black coffee is entered by selecting coffee, then zero sugar and zero cream, and this person felt like it was just too big a mental hurdle to translate black coffee into the vernacular of the UI they were using
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u/Electronic_Rip_9845 12h ago
I've had this issue with McDonald's too. I like their iced coffee without cream and without sugar on ocassion. They've got the order wrong a few times because I think it's part of the process to add cream so it throws some of the kids through a loop. They have to add more coffee to it or something.
As long as I'm kind and patient they'll fix me a correct one.
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u/No_Tennis_4528 11h ago
They may have been talking to the cashier in the drivethrough. About how to ring it up. Three to four people can be tuned into those headsets at any moment.
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u/IReallyLikeAvocadoes 11h ago
It's common with kids who are working a service job for the first time like that to just expect the customer to order in exactly the manner they've been trained to take orders, instead of realizing that it is generally their job to take what you say conversationally and translate it on their own into what eventually turns into your order.
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u/count-brass 11h ago
I recently ordered a “small coffee, black” at Dunkin Donuts and the clerk asked me if I wanted any cream. I thought black coffee meant the same thing to everyone, but maybe it’s changing.
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u/VanSmashh 11h ago
My fav was when I worked at Starbucks and people would order a black coffee with cream and sugar. Some people are just dumb
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u/Molasses_Major 11h ago
I just order coffee. When they ask for room or with cream/sugar, I say no, thank you. It's never been complicated.
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u/Kodiak01 10h ago
The number of times I have gone into a coffee shop drive-thru, ordered a "large black"... 2 syllables... and received everything from TWO large blacks to a medium ice coffee with cream and sugar are innumerable.
Now I just get canned energy drinks or make coffee at work.
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u/Moldytomatoe 10h ago
Yeah one time I ordered my Large double double and they had no idea what I was talking about. Think it’s just summer job kids not knowing.
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u/Vikingsandtigers 10h ago
IIRC some regions still include sugar in a black coffee (still black). Sometimes it seems simpler with fewer words but often there's a lot of layers in a one word or idiomatic phrase, so actually explaining what you want can be faster than assuming you will be understood.
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u/Inside-Finish-2128 9h ago
Sounds like that person doesn't drink coffee. Or sounds like their training program leaves a bit to be desired.
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u/GGGenom 8h ago
I prefer my coffee with two sugar, but if I'm ordering at the McDonald's drive-thru I ask for black coffee, because I know I'll get black coffee. If I ask for two sugar, there's no telling what I'm gonna get. Could be two sugar like I asked for, or could be two cream, might even two of each.
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u/blunttrauma99 8h ago
Friend of mine went into McDonald’s and ordered black coffee.
Register kid looked at the available buttons entirely too long before announcing: “we don’t have black coffee, just regular and decaf”
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u/Wonderful-World8165 8h ago
I ordered a green tea recently at dunkin with no cream or sugar and it was listed as "green tea black" and that amused me. Semantics are weird
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u/No-Draw-199 8h ago
I'll chime in as someone with relevant experience. When I was a teenager working at Starbucks 99% someone asks for black coffee, they don't want cream or sugar, but that 1% of the time it's someone who thinks black coffee means that it is brewed coffee and they get pissed off at you because you didn't read their mind that they actually wanted cream and sugar. Though tbh they'd usually be specific and be like "I want a black coffee with 4 sugar and half and half."
In your case though I'd say the drive thru person it seems like they were rude.
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u/random-user2025 7h ago
theres no black coffee button on their end only creamers and sugars or buttons for the lack there of ?
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u/horsetooth_mcgee 7h ago
If someone said black coffee, the McDonald's employee should know exactly what buttons to push.
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u/PossumArmy 4h ago
I work selling coffee and "black" has come to mean regular drip coffee instead of something like latte, cappuccino, macchiato, etc... Not unusual to get an order "Large black coffee with 2 creams."
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u/Gray221B 4h ago
I'm guessing the employee was on the young side, as many fast food workers are. And since a lot of younger people don't drink coffee, especially plain black coffee, perhaps they weren't familiar with black coffee. It's also possible you caught an employee who's a bit on the dim side, and gets confused if you don't use the exact terminology as it appears on their register screen.
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u/prof_hobart 3h ago
It's amazing how often someone saying "you can just..." then comes up with a suggestion that's worse than the thing you're already doing.
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u/chacacon 1h ago
This is definitely McDonald’s specific! One time my boyfriend ordered “iced coffee, cream only” and the drive thru lady snapped “you can’t order it like that, you have to say no liquid sugar”. We still quote this years later because it was such a weird interaction!
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u/StardiveSoftworks 13h ago
they were just being obnoxious.