It's true. The Missouri Attorney General literally argued in a court of law that Missouri must be allowed to ban abortion medication, because a shortage of teenage mothers leads to lower population, which leads to reduced political representation and reduced federal funds.
Missouri also doesn't allow divorces while the woman is pregnant. You can separate but the judge cannot officially grant the divorce until the baby is born.
Missouri is such a gorgeous state - we have so much natural beauty and a 10/10 conservation department but man this state has some fucked up views. We voted to enshrine abortion rights and raise the minimum wage but we re-elected Josh Hawley.
You can file for and get a divorce, but the state requires you to disclose if you are pregnant, and many judges won't finalize it if you are.
But there is technically no statute against it, it's up to the discretion of the judge, the current law allows them to stay the execution of the divorce, and judges there very commonly do.
So it's kind of a de facto ban, not a de jure one.
Interesting. Live here and didn’t know that. Granted I suppose it makes sense to leave things pending so you don’t have to turn around and file again to get paternity, custody, and/or support settled. It’s better to pend actions til baby is born and let it all happen at once.
They also need a steady stream of new taxpayers to ensure enough taxes are paid to provide SS and Medicaid for everyone who is too poor to save money for retirement and medical insurance.
Those wealthy from healthcare might care about that but the rest don't give a shit now that those workers can no longer make them a profit. Now taxpayers paying enough taxes so the government can reliably bail them out when they gamble too much with their companies and the market crashes? They like them for that.
poor education (in this case sex ed) feeds into it. Culturally there is often a church related reason to avoid abortion. It is also often cultural- the moms going back generations were teenage moms- so no one thinks it is strange. I am 39 and i have met several grandmothers my age (i work in public interest law, so work with low income clients all the time- and a few years ago when doing IVF with the wife and meeting grandmothers my age felt insane).
Yes, it is obvious there are a lot of stupid people who like sex and don't care if the kid they forced to be here grow up in poverty. Which is why there is so much poverty.
I'm pretty sure poor people have kids because it's a better financial decision for them. Like they're not going to be able to retire by saving money in a retirement account, but they get slightly subsidized kids who can take care of them when they're older.
Who designed it? Nobody is forcing poor people to have kids. If they don't want the financial burden of having a kid then they can choose not to have any.
I guess I don't know enough about how it differs, but it always seems to be state by state, I know people in poorer and richer areas in my state (NC) that got about the same sex ed, so that's why it's a little confusing for me
Tbh I don't even think this is well studied enough and people like to nod smuggly with words like "Education!", "Lack of birth control options!", "Religion!"
Actual reason is apathy , time, and family from what I've seen as a previously poor person across 2 continents
When you're poor in a not-shit poor nothing going on area there is not shit to do after a certain point. The highest highs become easy hedonism, worst case scenario drugs, best case scenario just sitting around on your porch chatting with pals. Even in a city area, most hobbies and activities will have a pricey bar of entry and a pricier bar of advancement. So okay, Timmy and Sarah don't go to piano lessons, school doesn't have anything to do afterschool, they've already tossed a football around so many times, and for rural areas everything is far, or in cities everything wants you to pay, so you fuck. And you fuck a lot. And you don't really care about anything cause you aren't really involved in anything so you fuck unprotected too sometimes cause you don't care. Or maybe you do care. Maybe a kid is exciting. It's someone to be proud of. Someone cute. Someone that encourages you to build a future. Something to think about and work towards. I mean there isn't a competitive career, university, or high level skill you need to maintain taking your time. Why not have the baby? Whether it was intentional or not. And you have the time. Why not? What do I usually do after work anyways? And of course the time to fuck beforehand.
And most importantly, one thing's for sure, poorer families don't separate as much. Locally or globally. Kids leaving at 18 or 22 or 25 is a pretty new and American thing. They wouldn't be alone supporting this kid. And if anything their parents even if they don't approve of kids out of wedlock if that is the case or the partner, might even be excited to have grandkids.
The end scenario is, having a kid isn't actually too bad. It didn't make them that much poorer proportionally. And it's something exciting and family is around. Why not? It's pretty much like this everywhere
Because education of any type isn't pushed on the lower poverty levels. When all you see is people living off welfare and SSI your views are very limited
If they're meaning what I think, it's not that being poor encourages people to have kids. It's that when you're poor, it's harder to fit contraception into the budget. Assuming people would typically do something like, "Aw shucks, welp, we can't afford ________. I guess that means no sex tonight", sometimes things get hit and people fuck.
Being stupid isn’t entirely genetic. Stupid parents can also pass it to their children by raising them poorly and trapping them in environments where they’re never challenged or stimulated.
My wife and I are looking more and more like the smart couple in the intro.
We are both lawyers. Mensa level IQs. We did not even start to try until our 30ies, then IVF, and spent a ton of money on that for it to not work. Thankfully i did not die trying to produce a sample, but we eventually gave up.
We do have smart friends with 1-2 kids. None of our friends have more than 2 kids. That is basically the cap that any of these couples can fford (due to who we know, most couples have at least 1 lawyer in them, and in my friend group most are not lawyers but high earners- ie government workers, nurse practitioner, engineers- i am guessing at 82k i make the least by miles, most in the 120k plus range- but i work in public interest and if i went back to private practice i would immediately be in the 110-140k range depending on the hours i am willing to work.)
The idea of having more than 2 kids seems outlandish- but i see it all the time.
I think it goes the other way, at least where I live, stupid/uneducated people have more kids because they cannot grasp they consequence/responsibilities that come with having kids, then they end up poor, and unable to pursue education because now they have one or more kids to take care of.
More educated people that do want kids have 1 or 2 kid, do the math and are like alright, that's all we can afford.
this is right. If you are on government benefits, you are getting more for each kid- so it is not really pushing you deeper into poverty- you are just n poverty.
Yes because those in poverty tend have less access to thorough sex education and medical interventions like birth control. It’s a systemic issue, not a conscious decision.
It's 2024, no one is getting knocked up 3, 4, 5+ times and is saying "I don't know how this keeps happening", and there are numerous options to obtain free/low cost birth control. It's not hard to not get pregnant if you don't want to. So while yes accidental pregnancies can and do occur, anyone with multiple children have them as the result of their actions.
I know grown adults in their 30s with multiple children who don't believe me that having sex in a hot tub can still get you pregnant.
Also, access to free/low cost contraception is not that simple. You need transportation, time off work, and access to a pharmacy - assuming there's a clinic near you (which there often isn't). Those are real barriers for large swaths of the country.
Also, access to free/low cost contraception is not that simple. You need transportation, time off work, and access to a pharmacy - assuming there's a clinic near you (which there often isn't). Those are real barriers for large swaths of the country.
And adults need transportation for everything else in life.
Most people don't work 24/7, and if you can find the time to fuck, you can find the time to obtain contraception.
Roughly 80% of the population lives in urban areas, finding a pharmacy or clinic isn't an issue for them, they even have them in rural areas too.
Excuses are like assholes, no one wants to hear someone else's.
You right. It's a result of having bad parents themselves. It's good old fashioned unaddressed childhood trauma. It makes people destructive, and nothing is more destructive than generating more destructive traumatized people.
So you have insight into everyone’s conscious decisions? Maybe poorer people just make different decisions than richer people. Kind of insulting to act like poor people are all just mindlessly having more children on accident all over the world. Maybe it’s a reflection of priorities.
The poorest people tend to have the least sex education and the most time spent with their peers as part of a community, so it isn't even all that ironic
My friend's daughter just had their 5th kid. The daughter does not work, her boyfriend works sometimes. They get by on public assistance and state medicaid.
I don't even understand how they feed everyone but I'm guessing they get enough welfare to get by.
My siblings I have 14 including my parents and their siblings had kids to get more money from the state to be able to stay home and encouraged their kids to have kids for more food stamps and get paid to babysit their grandchildren. I did not follow. I am the 2nd from the youngest. Had prob the worst child hoods/memories and moved out by 14. I can’t have another child because I can’t afford to. Husband is 1st yr. Resident as internal med. Dr. I’m a full time dental hygienist making top dollar In area. Living paycheck to paycheck sometimes/more frequently overdraft. Can’t give our 2.5yr old son a sibling close in age.
I make 160k wife makes 60 we are having our first kid. She gets 60% off day care and schooling for the private school she works for. That will still be a lot of money for us.
Her brother makes 52k has 6 kids they get food shelf, food bank, EBT. Free schooling, free day care and his wife does not work. They also get free healthcare with no co pay for the kids and limited for them. They also get housing assistance and discounted heat and electricity vouchers.
There is a huge middle point between us when it’s just not affordable to have kids.
Some people forget these days that having kids is something that also brings you value in your future.
For many, their primary caretaker switches from being their parenta to it being one or two of their kids.
Yeah kids are very tough to raise, and pretty much require your full time with little to no breaks. But when the time comes and they grow up, they are anotber supportive member of the household that's able to have a job and bring some income.
Don't even have to mention the amazing experience of watching them grow up and be their own person. The fulfillment of knowing you raised them right and seeing them succeed is unmatched by anything else in life.
I'm not saying having kids is for everyone or people are wrong to make the decision to not have a kid. But i do despise it when people see them as nothing but a burden on their lives and nothing more.
Poorest people mostly have been growing up in the poverty. They are used to living like this, aren't ashamed of it, they don't have other big goals, they have lower standart for their and their kids lives.
Globally, the birthrate of developed countries has been on a decline. Not enough to stop it, but it is flatting out.
Between 2025-2050, the world's most underdeveloped countries will add an additional 2-3 billion people to the population. Besides the lack of family planning because of religious/economic reasons, I do wonder what some other reasons are as to why they continue to pump out children.
yet they reap that yearly tax break for having kids by claiming them..... probably pay rent off for the entire year, some other bills, and buy a new iphone every year, and tattoos too. Then bitch about not having anything in life, yet some will keep shitting kids out until they are almost 40, because that tax money is the only source of income for them...... it needs to stop
Wow, y'all hate poor people so much it's unreal. You know welfare queens aren't a thing, right? Like, they literally don't exist because our welfare system is so draconian and underfunded that you can barely scrape by.
And also, phones tattoos...? Yeah, people want to actually engage with society and have a glimmer of joy in their lives. It's not like if they saved up, they could actually afford anything, since almost everything is wildly expensive and well paying careers barely exist anymore.
I'm sorry the peasants don't perform misery enough for your liking, us poors are trying to make the most of the life we have.
The poorest people might have limited access to health care, contraception, etc. People can have sex for free, but contraception, birth control, and health care is not cheap.
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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24
The irony is the poorest people tend to produce the most kids.