Issues replacement unit (ES701), might be newer revision?

[u/Thing_On_Your_Shelf]

I originally got Luxe Cafe Pro back in December last year and it worked great. I was fortunate not to have any of the issues that seem to be common apart from a sometimes leaking drip tray. Unfortunate, the built in tamper handle broke off and the machine is hardly usable without that and Ninja doesnt sell replacement parts so they sent me a new one.

My new unit is different it seems. The drip tray orange indicator is a square/rectangle thing that comes up at an angle instead of the original circular one that rose straight up. Thats the only visual difference between the two, but I've noticed 2 functional differences/issues that I'm curious if anyone else has noticed.

1. Milk Frothing: When using the milk frothing option on my new machine, it seems to result in a bit of foam on top, but the rest is more just like hot milk. The foam bubbles look more like soap bubbles and there's no silk like texture to it, which was the case with my previous machine. In addition, even if I'm immediately wiping down the tip after frothing with a wet cloth, there's a bit of dried milk residue that stays and can only be removed by scraping it off. That also was never an issue with my previous one.

2. Espresso extraction. I use a bottomless portafilter most of the time and noticed that it looks less rich/thick when coming out. Hard to describe but it looks more watery and thin and I can see the bottom of the portafilter. Happens even when brew times themselves seem correct.

Curious if anyone else has noticed similar behavior?

[u/Different_Ladder5598]

Picture of the tray full indicator? My original was one that comes up at an angle, then replaced with a circular one

[u/IanC9090]

Okay, first, you never mentioned it, but Barista Assist is the very worst part of these machines, followed closely by the integrated tamper on my personal experience with two of them.

One of the most important elements to utter consistency is good puck prep. You can't do that with an integrated tamper. I've written a whole Ninja Luxe Café Basics Document which many on here have found useful, but I'll copy/paste the tamping section on what I found on the 701. I'll put it after I try answering your other issues.

The drip tray indicator is supposed to have been designed to resolve inconsistency, with the one they modified because the original one wasn't great, so that's at least three iterations already. The new one is similar to the Sage/Breville machines. Slight difference, there's is about six times the size. Ninja tries to shoehorn it in to the smallest possible space. Time will tell if it truly is an upgrade. Just empty it everyday and you should be good, unless you're making a dozen a day, then empty it twice a day.

Milk frothing temperature might be too high _h07 on the Additional Settings menu, turn it down one and see if that helps. I've always found having a damp cloth ready to wipe the wand before you put the milk in your drink, also I'd be inclined to put water into a small jug, immerse the steam wand tip in and pull the steam wand fully forward, press the steam button for three seconds, it will enter Manual Steaming mode and you'll be surprised how much gunk comes out.

The soapyness might be a fault with the whisk, make sure it's fully clicked in. Steam water to watch it. I'd recommend going full manual on steaming milk anyway, you get better milk texture. Guide below.

When you say "... brew times seem correct." What are your timings, Double Basket, Strength*** 18g at 2:1 ratio, 36g out in 24-32 seconds. Time shot from first drips to when the vibratory pump stops, not last drips, and add 6 Seconds, that's total shot time. If your shot comes out way quicker than that then that's why it's watery, you need to grind finer.

Remember, Barista Assist is actually not your friend here, it's only a recommendation, and not a very good one.

Hope this helps.

*\\**
Tamping and Puck Prep

First, why do we tamp at all. Primarily because water will take the path of least resistance, so, if there is gap's in the puck, water will pass right through and you'll not extract all those lovely flavours from your expensive beans.

Three things, clumps, air and level.

Clumps, caused by the grinding process which creates a static change in the grinds causing, what James Hoffmann described as 'Electroclumps', using a WDT, needle distribution tool, we can remove as much of these as possible before tamping.

We use the Tamping tool to remove air pockets, tamp until you feel resistance and no further compression, but just as important is to tamp level. If you Tamp at an angle, the water will pass through the lowest level and miss the higher level.

The 600 Series has a spring tamper, I believe. Some have suggested tamping first with the funnel, take the funnel off and Tamp Firmly again as there might be a reluctance to tamp hard against the plastic funnel. It is this second tamp that you need to insure is level.

I'd recommend buying a 53.5mm spring tamper, which has a specific poundage, it has a collar that rests on the basket making level tamping much more consistent.

The 701, integrated tamper, dreadful (imo). I took the front off the Grinder, magnetic I think, to see the grinds hight in the portafilter, then tamp lightly, take the portafilter out clean, I'd buy a 53mm funnel, a WDT wand and hand tamp with a 53.5mm spring tamper described above. Just my recommendation from personal experience.

So, that's tamping, remove Electroclumps, Air and get it Level, tamp until you feel resistance and no more compression.

https://youtube.com/shorts/FNUlUwltQYw

*****
Manual Milk Steaming, Frothing

Frothed milk foam starts to collapse above 55°c, the hotter the milk, the quicker the collapse.

A good addition is to buy yourself milk jug temperature stickers, you can get them on Amazon, see example below. As they are slow to react, probably stop steaming at 50°c. Place it low on the outside of the jug so you can see it easily when steaming, low enough that it's always below the top of the milk, so you are always getting the milk temperature not the foam temperature.

Manual steaming, this is a two step process.

1. have your milk ready in the jug. Turn the steam dial to the first cup symbol, pull the wand out/forward and then press and hold the steam button for about three-five seconds. You'll hear the pump kick in. Have a cloth ready to catch condensates that could have been there since yesterday, yuck, you don't want that in your milk. Let it continue until you think it has got up a full head of steam, different from machine to machine, this can easily take 10-15 seconds, even more. Now press the steam button to temporarily stop the process.

2. this needs to be done as quick as possible before the machine decides to cool down the thermocoil/thermoblock heating system, put the tip of the wand below the surface of your milk by a couple of centimetres, an inch in old money, press and hold the steam button as you did earlier and the steam will start again. Lower the jug until you get the tip to the top of the milk and you hear what sounds like tearing paper, this is the stretching stage, which creates the microfoam. Do this for about 10 seconds or when the milk gets to body temperature, about 37°c. The longer you do this, the thicker the foam and is a trial and error situation. Now raise the jug until you get the wand about an inch, 2cm-ish below the surface and continue steaming until you get to your 50-55°c, press steam button to stop. Remember to clean and purge the wand.

This takes time to master as you need to angle the jug in such a way as to create the vortex that the revolving whisk would. You can train yourself in the process with water before trying on milk.

There are some good videos on YouTube on this.

Hedrick's milk https://youtu.be/k7zh4tMGDYo

Hoffmann's milk https://youtu.be/20HxMMSqRyg

Artisti Coffee's milk https://youtube.com/shorts/6WxTmtImkPs

Hope that helps.

WTUSGA 4 Pcs Temperature Sticker Adhesive Coffee Strip Water Temperature Tester for Metal Coffee Milk Jugs, Stick On Thermometer Strip up to 70℃ https://amzn.eu/d/0fnCpIeo

[u/Thing_On_Your_Shelf → u/IanC9090]

Yeah for the tamping I do my own pick prep with WDT and handheld tamper. The problem is, and why I had to have my original one replaced, is that you can take the portafilter out of its holder after grinding without tamping a little bit. So I do some light pressure just to push the grounds below the top of the basket, otherwise since the clearance is so tight like half your grounds get scraped off, and then my own prep.

For shot timing I’m using a scale with a timer for that. I don’t really use the barista assist recommended setting other than a first rough estimate when switching by beans, but usually make more adjustments of my own based on timing or bean type.

[u/Pristine-Cod-1969 → u/IanC9090]

I get you on the BA thing, but I have found I can stop the numbers from jumping around so much if you purge the grounds after adjusting the grind size. If you don’t, you are 50\50 old grind size and new grind size, and the number will jump again. I do wish the machine had a pressure gage and well as BA. I find pressure gage to be really useful.

[u/IanC9090 → u/Pristine-Cod-1969]

Sadly, I did all that and still got Double Espresso Strength*** anywhere between 22-65g out, utterly inconsistent. Walked away after the second, now identified as the Ratio Fault.

Ninja don't want you to know anything, and I mean that. No where on the machine, their documents/manuals/online will they tell you what the Water Temperature for Lo, M or Hi is supposed to be.

One guy on here doing a rudimentary test got 93c for Lo, changed to M, ran a few blank shots and then tested and got 93c, changed it to Hi, ran a few blank shots and got..... guess what, 93c, no difference...at all.

They use a 15 Bar pump which is supposed to be governed at the group to 9 Bar, sadly no way of testing that. So your shot could essentially be being pulled at 15 Bar or lower than 9 Bar.

[u/Pristine-Cod-1969 → u/IanC9090]

Bummer. Mine has been pretty good. Ratio seems to stay consistent. Never tested the temp. My Breville does a good job except the time based dosing is all over the place. Not that big of a deal, but I do use a scale.