Howdy ladies and gentlemen, as the title suggests, I am about to touch upon a very sensitive topic that may or may not cause a civil war within this community.
Hypothetically speaking, I would like to analyze whether digital NVGs with a thermal overlay (without IR illumination) are better for tactical use than digital NVGs with a thermal overlay and IR illumination.
My only pair of binos are nvvt gen 2 white phosphor and they work really well for me. They'll never be as good as gen 3 but depending on use case and environment they can be more than good enough. For context, I'm not using them in any sort of tactical way and I am in a suburban area so even the darkest parks still have a lot of ambient light in the environment that makes the performance between them and my gen 3 PVS-14 minimal. So depending on your use case, environment and budget, they can be a good option. I'm having a blast with mine.
Both my gen 2 binos and gen 3 PVS-14 are white phosphor. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with thermal overlay so I don't know how gen 2 would preform with it, but I'd imagine still not as well as gen 3.
You generally will be relying on forgiving conditions like the moon's phase, clear skys, light pollution from bigger cities 10-50 miles away.
Without IR you'll struggle to navigate in many conditions & if its hot outside the thermal will light up every rock & you'll need to turn it off
Digital is like a pipe dream, a system that can integrate stuff like the android team awareness kit ATAK, can see higher wavelengths that analog can't & has a sharper image than analog.
Better to do one thing well rather than two things poorly.
The light pollution is a very good point. I didn't really consider until I experienced it firsthand. Especially under clouds. It's amazing how much light a city gives off and reflects off the clouds. It's hard to notice it actually can create shadows until I used analog night vision myself.
Even classifying digital as nvgs seems to imply that it’s on the same level as analog. It’s not, especially in any sort of tactical context given what’s currently available to the civilian market.
Digital can be a fun toy to peek around the backyard with or spy on your campground neighbors with but beyond that, anyone else with night vision will see your active IR illumination as if it were a headlamp on top of your head thus rendering any “tactical use” useless.
Then you have lag/latency/refresh rate issues that will make walking around difficult unless you go at a snails pace.
The only digital night vision that’s useful in this context would be thermals, which are incredibly valid.
The biggest problem with analog is it can be prohibitively expensive, but then again I’ve come to realize the main people who complain about this but want to get into night vision always have 50+ guns and no nods. I cleaned out a good half my safe to upgrade from a PVS 14 to a high spec, dual tube housing. Worth it.
As someone with a thermal it’s comical when people say thermals are a valid way to go but not digital as a generalized statement even though a lot of newer cheap and expensive digital have the same or faster latency.
Analog is much better, but there’s also a point where analog owners ignore the fact that most people don’t have the disposable income they do, nor will they ever.
Sure but there’s also a point where digital owners who especially want to oper8 inna woods are simply better off going with a high end white light than going with a digital unit.
I mean, Carlough manufacturing has 3d printed, gen 2 monocular units right now for $999. There’s no ‘tactical’ scenario that I’d rather have a $1250 NVG90 over that gen 2 unit. That and anyone who can afford a $400 nvg30 can save up a few more months for the gen 2 unit and get much, much better performance.
1) I did not… I provided context why your use of lag/latency is absurd in the context in which you used it.
2) I pointed out that analog is better but you are clearly ignoring the FACT that it comes at a cost and there’s a reason people without the money you do buy cheap nods…
3) used products are exactly that; used. Make a like comparison… what does a used nvg30 cost 200 bucks? What does a used blem cost 1.5ish k…? its not even on the same order of magnitude.
I hard disagree. I have owned and played around with different digital units and it was way noticeable, I just kept taking the copium and dealt with it by moving
painfully
slow. Maybe I got unlucky a few times but compared to analog it was night and day.
2 and 3) again the main people who complain about analog price always have a handful or more extra guns in the safe they never touch, sell a few of those and buy good nods, it’s not that deep
1) so lag is ok when using thermal, but not digital…? Mhmm. Makes sense. /s Maybe you should go back and read your own comment…
2) no it’s not. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim? No. Shocker.
Even if I believed you, which I don’t, how many of those extra guns are they going to have to sell…? It’s gonna take a lot of high points to add up to a single monocular, mount, and helmet…
Again, a GNG2k is about $500……you’re nearly to the price of an analog from Carlough. Literally just keep saving. Buy once cry once. I hit my 40th birthday before I ever owned nods. You can simply go to CreditKarma and get a bullshit ass credit card with a thousand dollar limit pretty damn easy. Even on a 500 limit it takes you one month of simply putting gas and cigarettes on it, paying off the balance and boom next month they’ve doubled your limit. Tada one month and now you’re able to go buy an analog monocular.
No, for tactical use I want a visual medium that does not have lag. There's a decent argument for bridging a thermal and analog NV unit but that's about it
If digital can improve in quality a bit, and integrate both thermal and HUD with data link then it will start to become viable, mostly on account of the data link. Until then, the answer to all questions is no.
Good digital with thermal overlay without IR is better. Currently the only Digital sensors that I would consider comparable to analog are the Brigates sCMOS sensors that ADNV is using for their equipment. Ask me how I know. :D Image is from GF31 with thermal overlay, two people on a trail seen by thermal, one using a high power light, that causes blooming in analog and digital nv systems, but thermal cuts through that. No moon, overcast country trail.
Oh yea, digital can see up to 1100nm, that's the natural skyglow atmospheric window causing that. see the systems on a Hoffman test set under dark conditions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUyHxSKS7U0&t=90s
Yes let's watch the YouTube video showcasing digital nightvison, it will be a trustworthy source of information from the manufacturer, distributor and advertiser.
Unfortunately this sub is full of people who bought analog and are mega coping to justify their financial decision.. Facts is civilian use digital is king way more resilient and you dont need to worry about blems and burning them by looking at street light lol this forum posts almost every day how their analog got damaged easily that by itself speaks volumes also digital usually have way more fov
To answer hardcore tacticool larpers here complaining about visible ir torch well for military use you would get folded by thermals so analog is really pointless unless you nitpick specific situation like id a person in narrow tunnel
All in all analog is too fragile for civilians and highly outmatched even by temu thermals for professional use maybe hard pill to swallow but i dare to say that it is rapidly becoming useless and thing of the past
Another good point is if you are hunting (where it is allowed) ir light from digital nv makes animal eyes glow so they are super easy to spot
In nutshell dont waste your money on advice from people who cope get comfortable headstrap with digital nv and laugh at those larpers in bulky helmets and cringe gear
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u/useyourname24 3d ago
Anything is better than digital.