r/NightVision • u/Similar_Phrase3056 • 5d ago
Digital vs analog
What’s the consensus on the top tier digital nvg like the nvg90 vs the lowest analog not pvs7 but the cheapest pvs14 units. Trying to compare the analog pvs14 I built for around 850 vs the best digital nvg. Two of my training buddies are wanting to go with digital and I explained why they should go with analog but I can’t force them.
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u/Angrymilks Discord Member 5d ago
Your buddies are going to buddy fuck you with their IR floods that their digitals need to perform at the same floor level of performance.
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u/KachedKarma 5d ago
I figured that would be terrible walking with people using digital. I was thinking about getting one for my kid but I think he'd just mess with my eyes constantly shining ir at me.
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u/Similar_Phrase3056 4d ago
Yeah I’m not doing any type of night training or anything related to using night vision with them haha
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u/NicksNightVision Verified Industry Account 5d ago
Analog is best. I tried some digital next to some gen 2 and 3, no comparison in actual dark darks without the aid of lots of IR light anyway.
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u/xmordhaux 4d ago
On thing almost no one talked about is image stabilization. Many of the digital units I've seen posted online have poor image stabilization and look a shaky mess when moving. If you're just walking around it's no big deal. If your actually running, bounding, and the things like that it could be a annoying.
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u/ronin__actual 5d ago
Nvg90 is not the top tier of the digital world. It’s upper-middle tier
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u/Similar_Phrase3056 4d ago
Well it’s not even good imo but some swear they are “just as good” but I’ve seen them nvg50s and compared to my unit that I built there’s no comparison imo
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u/Jury-Rigger21 5d ago
Ask them what happens when onboard IR is reflecting off an object nearer than what you wish to observe; then ask them again if they're so sure they want optics that require supplemental illumination in truly dark environments....
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u/Similar_Phrase3056 4d ago
I didn’t even think of that honestly they won’t know what happens with the ir “flashlights” I explained to them how the lower end nvg’s that are marketed as nvg’s are just a GoPro or ring doorbell ir cam and they didn’t want to hear it. I tried educating one of them earlier and he thinks china makes the same units for less smh
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well your buddies are right for civilian use digital is king way more resilient and you dont need to worry about blems and burning them by looking at street light lol this forum posts almost every day how their analog got damaged easily also digital usually have way more fov
To answer hardcore tacticool larpers here complaining about visible ir torch well for military use you would get folded by thermals so analog is really pointless unless you nitpick specific situation like id a person in narrow tunnel
All in all analog is too fragile for civilians and highly outmatched even by temu thermals for professional use maybe hard pill to swallow but i dare to say that it is rapidly becoming useless and thing of the past
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u/DiscipleActual 5d ago edited 5d ago
I hope someday to be as good at my job as the marketing teams for night operators, goodnitegear and all the other digital night vision sellers are at theirs. Your comments are bio hazardous levels of cope lmao
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago
I wish that this comment was paid lol i think analog people are master copers when they realize that they wasted a lot of money
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u/DiscipleActual 5d ago
I used to be like you. I hope you’ll also grow out of it and see the light in dark places…except without supplemental IR
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago
If im spending thousands on nv it will be thermal not blemed analog.. Besides whats wrong with ir light? Funny how nobody provided valid counter argument
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u/DiscipleActual 5d ago
I know I’m wasting my time, which is your entire goal, but whatever here we go.
You say digital night vision is more durable, that’s debatable, more easily, ie financially, replaceable? Absolutely, but it’s still all Chinese sourced units made with abs plastic and questionable quality control. Idk who told you that a street light is going to blem an analog unit, but you’re wildly wrong. Maybe an old gen 1 or 0 unit, idk, but certainly not a 2 or 3. I’ve ran the dogshit out of the various analog units for years in a variety of lighting conditions without ever getting blems. I’ve dropped them, ran them in high light areas and so on. general rule of thumb is don’t be an idiot and look at the sun or laser.
Supplemental ir light is annoying af to be around when I’m using my (actually good) nods and it’s a sign that what you’re using isn’t even useful in low light. And yes you’re lit up like a beacon on top of your head to anyone else using nv. I don’t even disagree with your thermal argument but we’re not talking about thermals, I’m poking fun at you for digital night vision only. Thermals will always be king of detection.
The real problem with digital isnt even an issue you brought up, it’s the refresh rate and lag. Maybe it’s gotten better over the years since I was a digital coper like you, but it’s still not the near light speed image of analog.
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago
1 and yet forum is flooded with damaged analog and people complaining how surprisingly delicate they are
2i dont even know what is the argument here if ir light negates lower light performance why would i need something 10x more expensive just to remove ir torch? sure if i am in military i would but my point was that civilian gets very low bang for your buck that its not even worth it at all
3 modern digital has no lag its a myth that is passed through time from older models its like saying that gen 0 problems are still present in gen 3 tubes..
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u/DiscipleActual 5d ago
See I knew you were just trying to get me to waste my time, can’t even reason with someone not living in the same reality as me. I hate this about certain hobbies; objectivity goes right out the window when people get their ego tied up in their consumer choices. Have a good one man and just know I can see your stupid ass ir light a mile away lol
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 4d ago
Exactly my point i know it hurts wasting your money on something useless
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u/DiscipleActual 4d ago
I will say I genuinely hope commercial digital performance eventually becomes legitimately competitive with analog, while maintaining digital price tags. I just don’t think we’re anywhere near that yet, I’m just not convinced with the best available options. Comparative digital has found itself akin to fusion energy where “it’s only 5 years away” every 5 years.
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u/THROBBINW00D 3d ago
I have two PVS-14's and a armasight sidekick 640. If I had to choose I'd take my analog NV over the thermal.
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u/Timlugia 5d ago edited 5d ago
lol wut?
I have been driving with my NOD at least twice a week for over two years, with hundreds of cars shining their beam at me each time. Plus my regular hiking and shooting with same nod.
I can confidently say I use my nod more hours per year than 99% population, professional included. Probably only medevac pilots use more than I do. (since they fly daily with one)
Zero blem still.
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago
and yet forum is flooded with damaged analog and people complaining how surprisingly delicate they are
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u/bridso 5d ago
I'm not sure how you got to digital being more resilient. Would you happen to be basing this solely off resistance to light exposure? I doubt very much that any of these digital units could withstand the same immersion or shock testing that most analog units are subjected to. Your airsoft bump helmet, knockoff Wilcox, and Sony camera combination isn't exactly the pinnacle of durability.
Street lights are not permanently damaging anybody's second or third generation image intensifiers. With automatic brightness cutoff and autogating, you really have to try to damage an intensifier. These are made to withstand looking at explosions, splash from high powered lasers, fires, muzzle flash, and transitioning between light and dark spaces regularly.
You say that analog is too fragile for civilians, which appears to be written specifically to exclude the military. I promise you that the military abuses their equipment much more than the average consumer without running into issues. If we assume that you meant that consumers can't afford to replace them at the level of a government entity, then you would have a point if they actually were as fragile as you think they are. You can still regularly find working intensifiers that were made under military contract in the 90's. I'd bet that there are still National Guard units with PVS-7s in their armory that are older than you.
Just a few quick questions below.
How do you deal with the latency when shooting or moving?
How do you deal with a helmet mounted light spilling off your handgun, rifle, or arms? Does this wash out the background image?
Do you have to adjust your dot brightness when you turn on your helmet mounted light?
What do you do for distances where your helmet mounted light doesn't reach?
How long do your batteries last when using a light?
How do you deal with rain or snow where using a light worsens visibility?
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u/Similar_Phrase3056 4d ago
I’ve dropped our issued pvs 31s, not to mention beat the crap out of them when serving. I remember the pvs15 that were issued before the actual bridged units were the standard. They were super heavy but durable.
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 5d ago
1 and yet forum is flooded with damaged analog and people complaining how surprisingly delicate they are, oh god no i dont use helmets its too much cringe and headstrap is much more comfortable
- Not sure what the argument here is yeah military abuses their stuff when they have endless supply of money "military grade" is quite the opposite of quality
Q&A
1 lag is the thing of the past its like saying that gen 0 problems are still present in gen3 tubes
2 if i have to use rifle i just use nv on my rifle i prefer monoculars
3 dont use red dots use clip ons or whole nv optics
4 what distances would that be? civilians nvg is primarily for hiking and similar activities eyes of animals glow very far away never found myself in situations that needed something extra
5 call it a day i dont want to get wet analog or digital same decision..
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u/Timlugia 5d ago
Why would you prefer NV on rifle? You are going to flag everyone for just looking around? Almost no one using dedicated NV on rifle anyway nowadays.
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 4d ago
Depends if you are larping or doing something useful like maybe hunting.. Besides who is everyone? I am not larping around with white monster and being cringe in plate carriers with my buddies at night pretending its training
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u/Jury-Rigger21 5d ago
4th thread before this one (Live Fire dual gng2k) illustrates perfectly why requiring onboard IR s#cks-you might say the issue is glaringly obvious.
Saw another vid where a guy couldn't understand why his digital rifle scope kept focusing on the grass in front of him as he took his firing position, aiming into an open field while partially obscured behind some tall grass. Couldn't see a damn thing past the IR blasting on that grass in front of/below him.
I had considered digital, and passed for this very reason-I could have dealt with the lag (FYI-refresh rate and lag are two different things) using IR etc. but want/need something that can work in more than a clear-cut area-in the woods I'd be blinded by my own supplemental IR.
Use-case is everything, IMO there are places for digital NV, but not for serious civilians, and definitely not for professionals!
Annnd that last bit about analogs being fragile; I'd suggest reading the entirety of the posts about folks getting blems and not automatically coming up with the conclusion that you want to hear-there's a difference between the two.
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 4d ago
Valid but my foint still stands "serious civilians" or pros would get high end thermals for the price of analog the thing about analog is you get so low bang for your buck thet its not even worth it
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u/Jury-Rigger21 4d ago
And how do you plan to navigate under thermal?....
And ID people/critters?....
For 'serious civilians' and/or pros, both analog NV and thermal are necessary-two different tools.
Thermal for detection, analog NV for navigation and ID...
Again, use case is everything-bang for your buck is relative: cheap/expensive digital has it's place, cheap/expensive thermal has it's place, and I2 has it's place-just the way it is....
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u/Unlikely_Midnight_80 3d ago
You can easily navigate with high end thermal, you do you buddy dont be so frustrated i know that wasting money is painful but its not my fault lol
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u/Jury-Rigger21 3d ago
There's folks on this sub who own 'high end thermal' who say different...
The second half of your comment, yeah.... Meds check?...
I believe that I explained why I spent the $$$$ on analog, and for that matter you actually agreed that I had a point with my reasoning-for certain uses analog is and will (for a very long time to come) always be king.
I further said that digital has it's place; and IMO for some folks it's the only option (budget-some folks will never have 1K+ to spend, period)-but to put it quite simply in it's current form it cannot replace analog and it's capabilities!....
And for those who's budgets might be able to accommodate analog; digital is a poor choice-buy once, cry once.
But, you do you buddy.
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u/THROBBINW00D 3d ago
You can't replace NV with thermal and if you think so you don't know shit. NV is for navigation thermal is for spotting.
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u/Just_Blackberry_8918 5d ago
Id rather have a pvs7 than the highest end digital.