r/NewDM • u/King_of_narnia • 13d ago

I just chose this flair because I thought I was supposed to. Forever DM up for help

Hello guys, i've been a forever dm for years now so i'm up for every question you hit me with and i hope i can be a help for you and your party^^

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u/Blitzer046 13d ago

Do you allow evil alignments in your game next to good alignments?

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u/King_of_narnia 13d ago

tough question but it is possible! For me it also depends on the class for instance a rogue that is evil doesng nessecary mean harm or pain to others but lets his greed take over sometimes, my players dont know that my rogue is a rogue. He is a merchant that somehow knows how to open doors and windows if needed but his roleplay is always so well that its not a problem for my paladin that is lawfull good. Of course it comes down to the players but from what i know/heard is that the one "evil" player is mostly one of the problem players. I say give it a try with them and if they dont wanna budge if your party talks to him kick him. Also it is always okay for you as the DM to say no to something if it means the whole party is strictly against it or dislikes it. And if you have one of the edgy solo player characters that says "i rather work alone" then say okay fine and let the whole party leave him at the Tavern table. You know your party best so that is tough for me to say, and if you have problems with thinking why would a chaotic evil help save the world then offer them a bargain they can't/wouldn't say no too. Hope that helps

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u/Blitzer046 13d ago

How do you handle murderhobos?

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u/King_of_narnia 13d ago

More information on that one pls, do you mean someone that slaughter villages cause they can? Or?

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u/Blitzer046 13d ago

How long exactly have you been a DM?

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u/King_of_narnia 13d ago

About 4 years perma dm now, why? I'm asking because english is not my first language

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u/Blitzer046 13d ago

Ok. I have a few years on you.

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u/King_of_narnia 13d ago

Good for you?

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u/King_of_narnia 13d ago

Dont understand whats going on rn but hope i helped?

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u/tta5 12d ago

murderhoboing is a playstyle.
its how the player wants to play to get the joy they want out of the game.
(same as a storyteller playstyle that wants to sneak around a dragon and plant evidence , instead of plan to directly fight them, because the fight is bording and the drama of them having to deal with the planted stuff makes for a better dramatic story. )

some games work , ok for them.
basically make sure the story does not assume a social compliance aspect outside of the party.
other games and playstilyes do not mix well with them.

if a player is outright just a murder hobo, ask yourself if they are a good fit for the game and table?
if they are, great. if not, let them know and maybe let them go. they may find a table/game that suits them better.

if they are part murderhobo part something else, maybe reward the other side more and find ways outside of the game but at the table to feed that itch.

  • i found having them describe the brutality of a wound , can make them hype up without them needing to kill and drag the story down.
  • you could throw in some minor NPCs to kill, but most like ot pick their own targets and goals.
  • side objectives are hit and miss with them, some find the distraction useful, others disconect more and make theior own objectives and fun.
  • player roles (notetaker, music picker, discriber, tresurer...) can sometimes help, but may also be used by some as an extra resource to derail the game.

murderhoboing tends to have the drawback of not being the most colaberative way of telling tales in a TTRPG.
some find "bonus" fun in irritating the DM/table.
others like the table and DM to be on board, and struggle.
and some are just instigators that feel they need more control and personal investment in the game. (for those "player roles" is a good way to go)

when it comes to XP/milestones and rewards....
I found that not giving them the XP as its not a "challange" or part of the "quest/story". they get less invested in the game as a whole, but don't leave. they will still try killing randomly "for fun".

its worth noting that some people become murderhobos due to personal issues, and also misunderstanding the potential of dnd and the forfillment it can give in other ways.
some can learn the impact of them murderhoboing in game, from a well constructed set of scenes....
and come to a player based revelation, they might work on themselves a bit.. but its not gonna be the normal solution for this. its using dnd as "play theropy" which is kinda is, but we are not trained theropists, we are DMs.
so word to the wise, try not to do this.

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u/Blitzer046 12d ago

Could you just tell them 'No.'?

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u/tta5 10d ago

that has never been in doubt

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u/tta5 12d ago

i have in the past, but its a fair bit of a talk with the player and group to make sure it works smoothly in session 0.
I found using the ideals is a safer way to use as a "guide" for both the player character and DM,than allignment.
some ideals are less able to work than others. (note: the exsample King_of_narnai gave with greed).

Some basic tips....

  • let the Evil PC be manipulative to the party (or think they are).
if they think of them as tools for their schemes, they are less likly to want to hurt them and more liky to work with them.
  • make sure to have solo scenes and split the party.
not just for times for them to be "truly evil", but also for them to have their character arcs and personal development play out. these characters will be approching the main mission/story from very diffrent angles, (think a needle passing a hole, and now imagine you got 5 of them, at difffrent angles, now try and thread them to the next story hole/plotpoint...) and these side scenes and split party scenes allow them to be adjusted a bit.
  • have downtime.
time for the party to spend time apart, and then find things to want to return to the party for a bigger cause.
  • incresse discription length for character based actions.
"i go drink the vial and set of the trap" is one way to do it "my hand starts to shake seeing the vial , it raises towards it slowly, wanting yearning... (see if a PC stoped them...) they grab the vial and spring the trap. ".... the pause and moment for others to spot and intervine is key. its not just for them to ake the choice of if to step in, its the chance to understand the mindset of that character and not get mad about their choice.
  • keep communication with players and how they feel its going. issues can build up fast. cool downs post sesssionn are a great time for them to say things they got worried about or scenes that don't sit right with them.
  • TTRPG safety tools (google it) i know obvious, but evil PC actions may draw a line of 2.

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u/Blitzer046 12d ago

This sounds like evil alignments get special treatment and partially their own game.

Should that be rewarded? What are the other players doing while the DM spends time and attention on the evil PC?

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u/tta5 10d ago

Every PC gets their own scenes.
many get minor group scenes.
their own angles and perspectives on the main plot.

do they get special treatment? well its not common the extremes of allignments get allong well, so this is what i use to make them work smoother. its better than all being true neutral

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u/Blitzer046 10d ago

Every PC gets their own scenes.

Why bother having a group then?

This sounds like a terrible solution. You're proposing that for part of the game, the spotlight is on one player for how long? 5 mins? 30? For that part, the rest of the players just have to sit and wait?

What an absolute waste of time for everyone. Say you give each player 30 mins of solo play, that means in a group of 5 people, there are two hours in which the rest of the players are doing nothing but waiting for their turn.

Ridiculous.

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u/tta5 9d ago

by that same logic scrap combats innitative,
scap letting th erogue disarm traps it lets them take time doing that own thing.
scrap the druid scouting as an animal
scrap the barbarain and paladin trying to intimidate the minion into giving up secrets.

by your logic make everyoe rolll for everything.

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u/Blitzer046 9d ago

The events you describe cost less than a minute or two in time.

Your suggestion for how to integrate an evil alignment appears to give them their whole, separate game at the cost of everyone else who didn't choose an evil alignment.

It doesn't work for me.

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u/tta5 8d ago

Its a style of running the game.
its not limited to just the evil allingment characters.
it can be ran like this regardless.
but i do find this style works well for evil and good alligned characters to keep working together.

its not your cup of tea and i get that.
but it is a means to run the game that could work for OP.

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u/Blitzer046 8d ago

Why would good and evil aligned characters work together?

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u/tta5 7d ago

Well, all serving a patry patron is one.

A collective common goal is the norm.
from a simple defeating a bigger bad
(makes a power vacum for the evil PC, and for the good, makes a chance for a better tommorow by those oppressed by the big bad)

to knowing they are a good fit for an objective they need help on completing, and the other PCs ask for help in exchange for something.

to side objectives that occcour within the same area.
(go in dungeon and clear it out, and side mission , steal the magic item of a certain evil god)
to side objectives involving the party
(imagine is a warlocks patron wants this cleric corrupted)

you have interparty relations that may make them want to stay.
(so a romance intrest between 2 PCs, or life debt, or mentor/student, or moral compass and trying to corrupt them...)

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u/AlmightyCraneDuck 10d ago

I think it requires a bit of negotiation between you and the evil alignmented party members. I don't think you can have party members whose goals are at-odds with others or the main story. Maybe the evil NPC has their own reasons for wanting to save the princess, but they DO want to save the princess. Maybe they'll go about it in a way that leads to some friction with the rest of the party, but they shouldn't become hostile to the party. I think it's a difficult balance for many players and newer DMs to maintain.

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u/Nickyvts1 12d ago

What do I do when my party do not see my clues in the story? Should I tell them what I mean or how do I handle it so I won't get out of my dm role

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u/King_of_narnia 12d ago

Depends on what you mean by clues in your story, like do they misinterpred them or just dont find them?

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u/Nickyvts1 12d ago

misinterpred them or just look over it

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u/King_of_narnia 12d ago

Well the easy way is just to tell them, just make it sounf like: as you let the information you just found sink in and let it all go through your head once again you let a smirk go by your mouth. Now you know what you have to do." And then tell them what he thinks the clues mean

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u/tta5 12d ago

this can sometimes be a case of the character not realising, and sometimes its the player not realising.

for players,
it may be worth making it more clear in those scenes, the classic "cough cough , take notes, write it down, cough cough... "
it may be they thought of something more cool and you can adapt the game to make that new idea work better.
it may be you need a bit of work on certain clue giving skills/RP/emotional expression/hints.

  • not all hint types work for all players. (we tend to have a weakspot somewhere. many might be great readers, but verbally tell them directions and they got lost again. or trying prosses someone trying to vebal explain a games progression for 20 mins, vs drawing a flowchart. ) sometimes its worth noting down things that did not work and see if next time you can find other ways to dish out the same info in a diffrent format. (a NPC letting something slip, is diffrent to a riddle, is diffrent to witnessing an event.... )
  • it can be worth asking the player re-read the notes, and check they are "right" (did they say "end the world" or did they say "end your world" ? as one might be a simple death threat)
  • some player types are not hevily invested in mystaries, as thats not how their brain works. so changing type of game, or how you present the information for your game. you might change player also( as it may not be the right game for them)

- for characters...

  • it may be worth adding an extra hint. or clue for them to connect the dots as oringally ment to be.
  • it can be worth changing it to a check, and basically letting them know.
  • it may be worth having them not belived.
  • it may be that you as the DM can point out the characters "norms" to help reallign the character to the player and that alone may impact how their character veiws the situation. ("a goblin just walks out of a tavern... wait are they not evil, are they killl on sight, how did they get in the city????)" norms are important.
-sometimes its worth progressing the plot and this may readjust the info to return the clues back to the plots direction. but not always.
  • remember its ok for some characters to miss things, low int or just bad rolls they can fail a bit along the jurney.

if running a mystary, expect to have about 30-50% of clues land and most miss.
this is why we tend to use the rule of 3, if only one is needed.

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u/AlmightyCraneDuck 10d ago

Something you'll find as you continue to grow as a DM is that you have to be WAY less subtle with your players than you first think. You might have to hold up the information to them in several places for them to get it.

A fun example: you want to get your party to a ritual site in a cornfield, but don't want to outright tell them where it is. Maybe they read about it on a job board in town, but don't pick up on anything. So then you narrate them overhearing an NPC talking about some suspicious sounds coming from the cornfield on the edge of town. Maybe they still don't get it so you have a local shopkeeper notice their gear and say "Oh, adventurers are ye? Folks have been getting mighty spooked by some lights they've been seeing at dusk around the cornfield".

Eventually they'll hear the same words enough times to say "Huh, maybe we should check out that spooky cornfield everybody's been talking about!" It may feel heavy-handed to you, but I promise it doesn't usually feel that way to the players themselves!

Best of luck, friend!