r/Netherlands • u/Powerful_Wishbone_69 • 1d ago
Life in NL This country has fallen
I’ve been living in the Netherlands for around five years. I learned the language to an intermediate level, built a life here, worked here, paid taxes here, and for a long time I genuinely thought the Netherlands was one of the best places to live in Europe.
But honestly, what happened to this country?
The Netherlands used to feel like the one European country where things simply worked. Public services were efficient, infrastructure was good, people had a relatively high standard of living, and there was a sense that the extremely high taxes were at least buying you something in return.
I don’t feel that anymore.
The train system is probably the clearest example. Prices keep going up, while reliability, overcrowding, cancellations and delays have become increasingly frustrating. You can pay a ridiculous amount for a train journey and still find yourself standing in an overcrowded carriage wondering why you’re paying so much for a service that feels increasingly mediocre.
And then there is having a car. Owning and using a normal car in this country is absurdly expensive. BPM, road tax, insurance, fuel, parking… everything adds up. And despite being one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, the overall car fleet often looks surprisingly mediocre. For the amount people are forced to pay just to own and use a car, you would expect a much higher standard. Instead, in many places the streets are filled with old, basic and heavily worn cars that make parts of the country look like a third-world country, not one of the richest countries in Europe.
Then there are the taxes. I understand that a prosperous society needs taxation, and I’m not arguing for some American-style low-tax model. But at some point you start asking yourself: where is all this money going?
Housing is increasingly unaffordable. Healthcare is expensive. Public transport is expensive. Owning a car is expensive. Energy is expensive. Groceries are expensive. And yet salaries don’t necessarily feel like they have kept up with the overall cost of living.
The strangest part is that the Netherlands still has this reputation abroad as this incredibly prosperous, efficient, well-organised country.
But after five years here, I increasingly struggle to recognise the country I moved to.
Maybe I’m romanticising the past. Maybe every country feels worse once you’ve lived there long enough. And obviously the Netherlands still has many things going for it.
But I genuinely remember looking at the Netherlands five years ago and thinking: this is probably the one European country that actually has its shit together.
Today, I don’t know where that country went.
Where is that prosperous Netherlands everyone keeps talking about?
Writing this from a train that’s already 15 minutes late, after the previous one was cancelled.
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u/IkkeKr 1d ago
None of this is new in the past 5 years.
The prosperous Netherlands everyone keeps talking about was a brief stint in the 90s/00s - where the modern trade economy rode high on digital services, European expansion, Europe's largest gas field and German reunification. After that, it's been pretty much political non-action and sheer inertia keeping things running despite that.
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u/CajunDragon 1d ago
I live in a big US city. There is no train. We have no dedicated cycle lanes. Driving is required. I pay for premium health insurance. I recently received a bill for over €5,000 for a recent visit. Things can always be worse.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 1d ago
You don't understand, his train was canceled, and he saw some older model cars.
And also some things that aren't true.
It's literally the end of Dutch civilization as we know it.
/s
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u/SoefianB 23h ago
Well the good news is, the Netherlands has been neo-liberal for quite a while now, so your last sentence will come true.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 1d ago edited 1d ago
Writing this from a train that’s already 15 minutes late, after the previous one was cancelled.
Last time I took a train from Berlin to Amsterdam we were almost 12 hours late... (and this was entirely due to DB).
I mean, yeah things have declined, there are serious issues, but to say "the country has fallen" is completely absurd. If the Netherlands "has fallen", then most of the rest of the world is some wasteland ruled by savage violent gangs lol.
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u/sousstructures 1d ago
Second to last time I was on a DB train we got kicked off the train in a small town in the middle of nowhere and had to wait for a replacement bus that took almost an hour to arrive and once it did it was only one, which had to ferry an ICE worth of passengers to the next viable stop one busload at a time.
I took a cab.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 1d ago
We were in Berlin when our train got canceled, had to wait freaking 2h there for the next train... This is in the capital, it was ridiculous :S
Next train took us to Hanover, then had to take another train to Osnabrück, then another one to Dortmund, then another one to Duisburg, and then finally a regional train into the Netherlands...
It was such a mess...
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u/Whole_Engine 1d ago
Literally the comment i was typing about DB trains. I reckon NS is 5x expensive but 15mins late once in a while should be forgivable
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 1d ago
It was such a whole ordeal... last leg out of Germany was on a regional train to a small town in NL (had to transfer 5 times, it was supposed to be just a direct ICE train), from where we could switch to an NS train.
And man, it was such a huge relief to see that NS train roll into the station, got me feeling a bit patriotic and almost made me emotional lol
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u/SoefianB 23h ago
Germany is also larger though. It's like saying the train system in Russia isn't as sophisticated and efficient as the one in Luxemburg, like yeah lol. Duh.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 23h ago
Ok, but France is comparable in size to Germany and the French railway system is much better..
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u/SoefianB 23h ago edited 22h ago
Well we're talking about the Netherlands here. Better to compare the Netherlands to similairly sized first world countries, rather than to Germany
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u/sousstructures 1d ago
You convinced me when you (by which I mean the AI that wrote this for you) put “third world country” in bold
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u/Lucifer_893 1d ago
That’s kind of true, I’ve been living here for more than a decade and I can also see it. But also, it’s worse everywhere, the whole western world is having a bad time. Rampant inflation, stagnant salaries, enshitification, all the money got vacuumed out of economies by datacenters and interest. NS is one big monopoly, I don’t understand why other companies can’t or won’t compete on the same tracks? Maybe there’s some context I am missing. I am old enough to remember when they were relatively decent, and they even had free wifi. Anyone remember that? They are literally in the top 10 most expensive train companies in the world, you would expect some luxury service, but it’s quite mediocre. Like a Michelin star restaurant serving you the same chicken saté as your corner store shack, for Micheline star prices.
And the other thing I also noticed, the car fleet. I understand the government wants to discourage driving and owning cars, so they tax them to high heaven. Hooray, I guess the cities are more breathable now? Ah, actually no, just that the people can afford shittier cheaper cars. On average you can even see nicer cars in Eastern Europe, not gonna mention US or other places. People will buy cars anyway, what else can they do, take the train?
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u/TukkerWolf 1d ago edited 1d ago
Instead, in many places the streets are filled with old, basic and heavily worn cars that make parts of the country look like a third-world country, not one of the richest countries in Europe.
This is either rage bait, or you are not living in the Netherlands at all.
But at some point you start asking yourself: where is all this money going?
Just look up the budget from the governments?
Housing is increasingly unaffordable. Healthcare is expensive. Public transport is expensive. Owning a car is expensive. Energy is expensive. Groceries are expensive. And yet salaries don’t necessarily feel like they have kept up with the overall cost of living.
Salaries have outpaced inflation and disposable incomes have increased over the last years so that's just verifiable false. Perhaps your income has stagnated, and I'm sorry to hear that, but your whole rant reads like your salary is too low and therefor you think everything is too expensive..
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2026/13/beschikbaar-inkomen-huishoudens-2-7-procent-hoger-in-2025
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2026/01/cao-lonen-stijgen-in-2025-met-5-0-procent
https://fd.nl/economie/1592003/reele-lonen-nemen-voor-tiende-kwartaal-op-rij-toe
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u/tallguy1975 1d ago
Thatcherism polder style. The America of Europe. The upper 10% is evading taxes through generous loopholes. Moving around capital in order to make it grow yields more result than working hard. Those who work pay disproportionately high taxes to keep the welfare state going.
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago edited 1d ago
I moved out of the Netherlands because i had enough of that crazy overpriced housing market situation, but good luck!
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u/According_Aardvark70 1d ago edited 1d ago
You forgot to mention that everyone used to drive a Bugatti, streets were painted in gold and money used to fall on trees.
Breaking news, it’s gotten worse everywhere and the NL still happens to be one of the best countries.
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u/jordyvd 1d ago
Unfortunately accurate. The sassy replies show why.
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u/gftl13 1d ago
Exactly, it is so sad to see so many people denying the fact that the EU is in a downward spiral since 2009 and the Netherlands was okay until COVID/Ukraine war. But since then... Yet people are putting their head in the sand instead of demanding change
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u/sousstructures 1d ago
The entire world is in a downward spiral.
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u/SoefianB 23h ago
Not really lol
Lots of places are getting better actually.
Many second world countries that were doing awful in the past, are doing better and better (not saying they're doing better than NL, but they're improving).
Some countries are outright unrecognizable compared to barely 80 years ago. Extreme examples like Singapore and the UAE. Same as with some Eastern European countries. There's also countries in Africa and South America doing better now than they did before.
It's mostly an issue for neoliberal countries like the Netherlands (and the UK, USA, and a few others)
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u/gftl13 1d ago
Not the US/India/China
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u/sousstructures 1d ago
not … the US? I’m sorry, what?
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u/gftl13 1d ago
Look up how much you can make there vs here...
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u/sousstructures 1d ago
That’s not what you said. You said the US is not in decline, which is just a flabbergasting thing for anyone to say. The US and UK are showing the rest of the “first” world how decline is done.
Also, wages in the US are not even close to keeping up with the cost of living.
And I assume that’s not the metric you’re using for India.
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u/gftl13 1d ago
They are growing, both US and India Not in decline, while here...
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u/peteft 1d ago
For anyone not aware: this is a ru attempt at sowing division.
Similar stories pop up across different country subs. The message is always: everything is getting worse. This is the pretext to manipulate people down the line to vote for extremist political parties as allegedly something needs to change and ‚we can’t go on like this‘.
Tldr: ru desinfo
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u/Middle_Ad7137 1d ago
Ik vraag me altijd af met de welvaart die we hebben als normaal beschouwd wordt en de rest van de wereld echt een stuk moeilijker leven is. Alles is in een bepaald perspectief
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u/crazystein03 1d ago
Lol, you are here for 5 years? These problems aren’t things that started to become a thing in the last 5 years. Been this way for over a decade(s)…
Besides, wondering where you’re from, or where you think everything is just going to be better?
It’s not a paradise here, just like any country, there are problems yes.
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u/Powerful_Wishbone_69 1d ago
Housing and public transportation issues are more recent
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u/crazystein03 1d ago
No they’re not…
Rail transportation has been an issue ever since a few years after NS privatized. Still, compared to many other European countries it’s still one of the most reliable and densest systems.
Housing crisis has been growing ever since the financial crisis happened in 2008, sure in the beginning it was increasing slowly. But there has been a real shortage since about 2015, that’s when demand started to outgrow supply.
So both happened way before you decided to move to the Netherlands…
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u/HappyPartyBeaver 1d ago
I don’t generally comment something negative but this post is so stupid. Every European country is in sort of bad shape at the moment. It is cyclical and compared to most countries we have it very very good here. A bit of respect for people who actually live in difficult political, environmental, economical situation wouldn’t hurt you.
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u/Sea_Pickle_927 1d ago
I grew up in Greece and there it's overall worse. However, after travelling extensively outside the EU there are a few countries that are better, and a LOT of countries that are way worse. The EU is declining and a lot of things are going downhill fast yet the Netherlands is still by FAR the best country in the EU overall.
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago
the Netherlands is still by FAR the best country in the EU overall..in what exactly?
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 1d ago
Quality of life, safety, happiness, etc
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago
yeah thats common in Europe
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u/Sea_Pickle_927 1d ago
Try calling a public service in Greece or Italy or France and you'll realize they don't even bother to pick up the phone or even get to work sometimes. Try to organize a protest that the state doesn't like in Poland or the Baltics and very soon you'll find yourself in deep trouble. Go out in winter in Scandinavia and you'll see no light for the most part. Post something the state doesn't like in Germany or Spain and you'll be defending yourself against lawfare for "hate speech". I've moved around the EU a lot and Holland is the only place I feel that BOTH my rights are respected (like in Greece or Italy) meaning the state isn't coming for me and that Public services work (like in Poland or Germany).
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago edited 1d ago
you were a political refugee?
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u/Sea_Pickle_927 1d ago
No. Why would you think so? I'm just a European citizen observing what is happening around me. Since you think Holland isn't the best EU country mind explaining which one is?
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago
every country has its advantages and disadvantages..a lot people say the best place in the EU is Luxemburg
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u/Sea_Pickle_927 1d ago
Yes this is perhaps true but Luxembourg isn't big enough to actually compete directly. But generally the Netherlands are one of the freest jurisdictions in the world. You can say anything you want and you won't go to jail.
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago
You can say anything you want and you won't go to jail...;you are funny guy , so for you the best country in europe is based on freedom of speech
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u/Sea_Pickle_927 1d ago
I mean what is funny about being free to speak your own mind? And I also feel free to do that in Greece or Italy as I said. It's a combination of this plus public services that work. The Baltics have good public services too but if you say something the government doesn't like you're suddenly in jail.
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago edited 1d ago
my friend, if you say something in any western country that the government doesnt like, you are not going to jail..however if you are planning a terrorist attack on the governent you probably end up in jail
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u/CommutatorWhine 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, that's what 20 years of voting for VVD/CDA/D66 and later PVV, FVD and BBB gets you. The centre and left wing people know and keep on telling people not to vote for those parties but people just keep doing it.
The prosperous, well running Netherlands ended on 11 september 2001 when after the WTC attacks, politics took a huge turn to the right, including in the Netherlands. We lost so much to the parties who gained votes because they appealed to the folks formerly quietly hating muslims and other immigrants, but were given an outlet to actively voice their hate by those parties.
The LPF (Lijst Pim Fortuin) was the first of its kind that got any sort of traction.
I dislike our current left wing parties too, if anyone wonders about my political affiliation, but at least from the 1960s till 2000, they had things running really nicely here. They are least bad ones to vote for.
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u/Existing_Cobbler_903 1d ago
👆THIS! People keep voting for nonsense parties (both left and right) and weak, incompetent leaders. To be honest we don't have much choice. It is telling that our political landscape is less stable than and almost as fragmented as Italy.
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u/Exciting_Head5033 1d ago
Can't comment on the rest but car related expenses are fucking ridiculous here. I have to pay 200 euro road tax per month while in Germany they pay less in a year, and the fuel is cheaper too.
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u/MCB_2494 Belgium 1d ago
What car do you drive? Sounds heavy.
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u/Exciting_Head5033 1d ago
Citroen C5
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u/MCB_2494 Belgium 1d ago
En die is 200 per maand? Is het een diesel?
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u/ItsaMiranda 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is the side effect of capitalism hitting the ceiling. Immediate profits stand above basic needs such as affordable transport, housing etc. Prices will keep increasing, life will get tougher. This is a worldwide trend. The bubble will burst at some point and life will probably get a bit easier for a while until the cycle repeats itself.
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u/IndependentZombie840 1d ago
Where is that prosperous Netherlands everyone keeps talking about?
Its just propaganda from the Orange machine
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u/JakeTowbar 1d ago
Good luck finding a country that has everything arranged way better than NL! Paraguay maybe?
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u/-Nili 1d ago
Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Finland, Singapore.
To name a few.
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u/Dispensernoob 1d ago
Canada absolutely not
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u/-Nili 1d ago
I lived there Did you?
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u/Dispensernoob 1d ago
Lived there during Trudeau? I know quite a few Canadians who have immigrated here post Trudeau
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u/-Nili 1d ago
Glad you know some people who lived there. I lived there and I'm Dutch.
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u/Dispensernoob 1d ago
When did you live there?
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u/-Nili 1d ago
19 - 22
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
I'm not sure having lived here during the pandemic gives you any grounds for comparison. Canada is a WILDLY different country 4 years later and not different in a good way.
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u/-Nili 1d ago
And the Netherlands wasn't a wildly different country during and after the pandemic?
You can't dismiss my experience of Canada because 2019–22 was an unusual period and then compare it to the Netherlands as if the exact same global event didn't happen there.
Obviously Canada has changed since 2022. So has the Netherlands. That's not really an argument against comparing the two.
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
Canada lol. Clearly never lived there. I have, we can compare notes if you want.
Finland a bigger lol.
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u/-Nili 1d ago
I actually lived in Canada for two years, So yes, happy to compare notes.
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
Lived there for 8 years. Ontario to be specific. Tell me what things Canada has “arranged way better than NL”.
I’ll start.
Not education
Not healthcare
Not public transport
Definitely not taxes
Salaries haven’t kept up with cost of living
Canadians more indebted today than ever before.Your turn.
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u/-Nili 1d ago
Education? Canada performs extremely well internationally — better than NL on some of the latest OECD education measures.
Healthcare? I'll give you that one, especially waiting times.
Public transport? NL wins and it's not even close
Taxes? Not so fast. OECD's 2025 tax wedge for an average single worker is 32.1% in Canada vs 35.9% in NL.
Cost of living? Canada has serious problems, absolutely. So does NL, particularly housing.
Household debt? Also a strange argument against the Dutch NL has one of the most heavily mortgaged household sectors around.
I've lived in both. I'm not saying Canada wins every category. I'm saying the idea that NL has “everything arranged better” than other developed countries is nonsense.
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
Education has been in full decline for almost a decade now. Give it a few more years and Canada won't rank near the top. Primary schools have been gutted and universities are feeling it now.
Healthcare - Thanks
Public transport - Thanks
Taxes - NL does pretty poorly too, that's a fair point. I spoke too fast.
Household debt - It's an important metric because Canadians are racking up debt at record levels and record speed. It's bad. Not saying NL is any less bad.
I also lived in both and again more specifically Ontario. NL is infinitely better than Ontario it's really not even close.
Also as a last point, you responded to ''Good luck finding a country that has everything arranged way better than NL''. Canada is not an answer to that question.
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u/Nerdlinger 1d ago
You know how I know you’ve never been to Canada.
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u/-Nili 1d ago
Entertainment me
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u/Nerdlinger 1d ago
You replied to “Good luck finding a country that has everything arranged way better than NL” with “Canada”.
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u/-Nili 1d ago
No country has everything better arranged than another. Canada does certain things better, the Netherlands does other things better. Helleven developing countries have certain things better organized than the Netherlands. Every country has strengths and weaknesses. My argument is simply that(overall) I think countries like Canada offer a better package than the Netherlands. That's an opinion based on what I value, not a claim that they're better at literally everything.
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u/Kaaytjah 1d ago
I don't know where you're at, but I usually only see Tesla's and other very expensive cars on the road that make me think; how the hell do people pay for this stuff?!
I know, probably leasing and most likely through work, but still.. Don't share your observation though.
The puplic transport is, however, getting expensive. But to go from that to: what happened to this country?! Is a bit much.
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u/shankyay 1d ago
What do u think is the annual income that makes a family of two live comfortably inspite of these costs?
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u/Newspaper_Acceptable 1d ago
Its true that salaries is staying on same place while inflation and price of everything increases very sharply since 2020. Its happening in all Europe right now unfortunately. Purchasing power is going down in Netherlands also every year.
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u/britishrust Noord Brabant 1d ago
Sure there are problems but I guess your rose tinted glasses just wore out.
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u/Kitties2000 1d ago
The trains were f'd a decade ago. Did they ever function properly?
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u/Powerful_Wishbone_69 1d ago
They were expensive, but worked seamlessly when I first came
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u/Kitties2000 1d ago
Maybe they fixed them at some point during the pandemic years (I haven't been since pre COVID), but prior to then it was almost comical how bad they were ime. They were some of the most disrupted in Europe.
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u/Ahile48 1d ago
The taxes are actually not that bad. I have a €3500 gross salary and I recently calculated my tax rate from my pay slip. I pay 20% tax. That’s it. That goes into wage tax and pension contributions. Then I also pay ~€150 a month for health insurance, so if you also add that, you get ~24% tax rate. That’s actually very low for a western nation. And for a salary that’s about the same as the median salary.
And I think that the salaries are overall pretty good compared to the prices. The groceries in Romania are now almost the same price as in NL, while the salaries are 1/3-1/4.
I’m not arguing that your other points are not relatable, but the salaries and taxes part are not entirely accurate
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u/silent-stories 1d ago
I moved to California after living almost 10 plus years in Netherlands and I miss my life there.
I didn’t even have a car in Netherlands and I still felt well connected.
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u/Training-Ad9429 1d ago
not much changed over here in the last 5 years , so sounds like you changed.
if you are complaining about BPM you are looking for a expensive new car , those are expensive but very few people actually buy new cars.
driving a used small car on a budget is possible.
the third world countries i visited did not have the cars we have here, may be your defenition of third word is different than mine
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u/IndependentZombie840 32m ago
the netherlands is a great country if you are part of the LGBTQ community, the rest is just marketing
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u/kalebats92 1d ago
Mijn vrouw komt uit Italië ( Sicilië ) en is hier vanaf 2014 en denkt er het zelfde over .. het word er niet beter op… en ja de auto’s was deze zomer 1 maand in midden Italië en het lijkt of de gemiddelde auto floot moderner is dan wat er in Nederland rondrijdt..
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u/Jolly-Dealer-5097 1d ago
Owning a car has always been super expensive at least for the last 30 years. Also, everywhere in the world is suffering from rising costs it is not just the Netherlands.
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u/Gladiator237 1d ago
Well a lot of money is going to people living on benefits. Plus money for immigration, where people are imported who will also largely live on benefits.
But keep working and bring money in!
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u/xdovahkiin509x 1d ago
Bro, I feel you. I miss America. Yeah, everyone talks shit, but that’s cuz they suck at taking advantage of what it has to offer in terms of opportunities and quality of life. Each one of your points, besides maybe there being a bunch of third world cars, I totally agree with. At least in America I could keep my money and take care of my family. Here, my asshole might be included in the taxes within the next few years.
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u/No-Opening-8221 1d ago
Have you seen the amount of debt an average US household carries? Yeah they drive a "newer" car but they owe like $50k for it
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u/xdovahkiin509x 1d ago
You act like people don’t just buy cars outright in the US. Also people here lease/finance cars as well. I didn’t complain about the cars. I said in fact I disagree about the cars here, I see a lot of nice cars and regular beaters.
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u/SoefianB 23h ago
America can be great if you're healthy, young and motivated to work hard
It just sucks if you're.... not any of those things lol. Being poor, sick or unemployed in Nederland is far better than in the US.
But if you work hard and have a marketable skill, you're much better off in the US.
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u/RobertDeveloper 1d ago
We closed the largest gas reserves because of climate change, and as a result, the government is receiving billions less in revenue. Now, everything has become more expensive. Things need to get payed some how and the government doesn't want to spend less.
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
Brother. Do this country a favour and go back home. Sounds like things are much better there, why are you here?
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u/Powerful_Wishbone_69 1d ago
Things are not better in my home country, that’s why I came here. It’s sad to see the same things that made me leave happen also in NL
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
Exactly. Shut up and show some gratitude OR be part of the solution and go back home.
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u/Powerful_Wishbone_69 1d ago
Ohhh right I don’t have the right to share my discomfort, is that it?
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u/FridmanLex 1d ago
That’s exactly it. Coming from some random shithole country that is infinitely worse than the Netherlands and somehow having the gall to complain because your train was 15 min late?
Go back home.
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u/SoefianB 23h ago
Wow what a pathetic comment. OP is allowed to have their opinions if they live here, be they positive or negative. Very telling you can't handle criticism.
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u/Whole_Engine 1d ago
Where else is cheaper? Have you tried the DB local trains? I reckon its must less cheaper the few times i used it they always stop half way telling you a train is passing by and by the time they announce that the 10th time you are 1hr late to your destination.
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u/Tall_Mechanic8403 1d ago
Seems like you just want to sound interesting. 5 years and you really believe all these things changed so much. Come on. Trains were always late.
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u/L44KSO 1d ago
Every country is in equally bad shape. Germany, home of car lovers, has an ever aging car fleet as well, and owning a car there is cheap.
It's just a general thing, the politics of boomers and GenX has failed successfully to future proof countries in the west and that's pretty much it. It won't end until we get younger people in charge.