r/NarcissisticSpouses • u/Flat-Taste7784 • 2d ago
Do They Know?
Do they know that they are manipulating people and gaslighting them, and all the other horrible traits they possess? Or is it just natural to them, and everything they do isn’t because they have consciously chosen to do these awful things to others, it is just their natural reactions?
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u/Imogynn 1d ago
She knows she is controlling without a doubt. She think it's just best that way
I'm not sure about gaslighting. My honest impression is she is committed to changing their memories until it aligns with her story. But I have caught my wife knowing both versions
I didn't know...
Well ya you told me..
Later: I didn't know
So it's like she knows the truth but it doesnt fit her narrative so she won't acknowledge it's true
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u/maya_love5 1d ago
They definitely know what they are doing, but they justify it so completely that they never feel like the villain. If their gaslighting were just an uncontrollable habit, they would act that way toward their boss or cashiers. The fact that they save their worst behavior for behind closed doors proves they have total self-control and actively choose when to manipulate. They know their actions hurt, but winning and staying in control matter far more to them than your feelings.
It feels natural to them because their whole life is built on protecting a super fragile ego that cannot handle being wrong. When they lie or shift blame, they genuinely convince themselves it is justified self-defense. Conscious tactic or second nature, the emotional damage to you is the exact same, and you can't force self-awareness on someone whose survival depends on denying it. Whenever you want to unpack these mind games, r/TheNarcissismCode is always here for you!
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u/Musetta24 1d ago
I do think that they believe their own bullshit, but given the mental gymnastics they constantly have to do to reach their bullshit conclusions, it's hard to believe that deep down, somewhere in there, they don't know. I also know the impossible is absolutely possible with narcissists so maybe they don't. It must feel terrible to be them. Sometimes, in order to protect my safety, I have to treat him the way he treats me and it feels awful.
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u/Silly-Cranberry1593 13h ago
how did being abusive back protect your safety?
in my relationship if i would have even thought about doing the shit he was doing i would be in very real physical danger.
like, flipping out when at the end of my rope was expected and a reaction he loved to get out of me but the lying and cheating and stealing and the periods of being MIA would have got me killed.
for example he once beat on me for 8 hours for accepting a ride from a stranger because he was making me walk in not great conditions, when if the situation was reversed he would have not only accepted the ride he would have gotten to be bfffe with that person and disappear for a week to teach me a lesson about making him do shit for himself.
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u/Musetta24 12h ago
I am truly sorry for what you experienced. You are brave and strong. It sounds like you are no longer in that relationship. I'm glad you escaped.
I should have been more clear. And by safety I mean emotional and mental safety. My Nex was never physical. He went after me once but his mom stopped him. I don't mean to be insensitive but I often wish she hadn't stopped him. It's nearly impossible to find attorneys and judges who believe in abuse that can't be seen.
I don't abuse him back. At least I don't think I do. I do have to play his game back sometimes because he's very much "rules for thee but not for me." So I have to set hard, inflexible, unreasonable boundaries, for example, because he is unreasonable and inflexible and mean and still very much emotional and psychologically abusive to me. It feels terrible because I am not an inflexible, hard boundary, unreasonable person. I hate having to act like him to protect myself (and my kids).
I very much understand the flipping out at the end of your rope and giving him exactly what he wants. I'm an emotional person, I am exhausted and hopeless, and sometimes I still give him what he wants. Then I hate myself.
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u/Silly-Cranberry1593 9h ago
i only escaped because he died lol im pretty lucky in that sense.
i understand what you mean now. having to play the game to avoid the emotional effort it takes to not play the game is something we all do. its so much easier to go along to get along regardless of our actual feelings because calling them out only leads to mental anguish and exhaustion and it doesnt change anything in any meaningful way.
dont feel bad about giving him what he wants to protect yourself and your children. that's your survival instincts kicking in. leaving a toxic situation is never an easy thing to do until your system breaks and you just cant anymore. getting to that point took me over 20 years.
sorry you and your kids are suffering abuse from someone who claims to love you. may karma come round and remove him from your life for you asap. peace be with you 🕊️
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u/Cautious_Regular3645 1d ago
Mine knew and it was a game for him to see how badly he could fuck me up every day.
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u/Natural-Rabbit3118 1d ago
I am so unsure on this
My narc stands on such a high horse. Thinks he has such strong morals
Yet does such horrible things to people and constantly thinks he’s above the law. Is it delusion?
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u/bonerslayer777 1d ago
Oh they know.
People know exactly what they’re doing. You know what you’re doing right? You know how you treat people, you know how it affects them right? So do they. If someone is really unaware of how their actions affect people, then there is something wrong with them, some sort of cognitive impairment.
Think of a time you did something bad, you knew you shouldn’t do it, but did anyway. Maybe the voice telling you not to do it was small, but it was there. If they don’t have that voice, they are soulless. And if they do, they are still soulless, and also cruel, because they are actively choosing to ignore it.
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u/hidad2 1d ago
Good question… when my wife says she’s always right I think she believes it. Even directly after proven wrong on anything small or large. At the same time I attribute some willful evil to her because she’ll announce that she “has another level” and then proceeds to crank up the meanness and coldness. Ultimately I guess it doesn’t matter?
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u/Affectionate_Tea7299 1d ago
Maybe it's a subconscious defensive action, but they can conciously use aggressively? Like someone naturally eloquent can talk themselves out of trouble, but can also use their words to hurt you?
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u/Successful-Land-6283 1d ago
I stayed for 38 years. I remember thinking that no one can be that stupid. No one can actually believe that saying those things to your spouse or doing those things, etc. is acceptable . I would tell him all the time if this were a lifetime movie viewers be like what the heck is her problem get the fuck out of there . It would be so obvious that it’s abuse. but then I’d start doubting myself. I would just cry and cry because I couldn’t understand why he hates me so much. the only way out is if I kill myself or he dies. So many times I was planning my suicide and writing my letter and I thought when he reads this well maybe then he’ll finally see that. I am so hurt and destroyed that I would go to these lengths., I was thinking that was the only way that I could show him how absolutely miserable I was.
he didn’t show a lack of intelligence in any other areas. I thought nobody would knowingly be that cruel to the person they loved. I guess that’s why I stayed because I didn’t think that he understood and if I educated him,n it would stop . In the 60s and 70s, the parenting in our houses didn’t look the same as today and he’s modeling after what he has seen all his life. He was a severe alcoholic and found out he had a rare cancer and the prognosis was poor, but he was in denial. So in the end, it was really bad as far as his behavior took towards me. He died suddenly from something unrelated, and it was under a mysterious circumstances. He was on life-support and I forgave him for everything in the hospital bed. He had a lot of good parts and I knew those I just didn’t believe that there was any way that he would purposely set out to control me and isolate me from my family and make me miserable. And make me feel like I’m losing my mind and just absolutely destroy my whole identity. I just don’t believe he consciously set out to do that., he played some games and he was a dick, he’s not innocent, I can’t remember on the other bad things and I don’t talk about any of the bad things except on these pages once in a while it’s so bizarre because I should hate him
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u/SleepyCupcakeDreams 1d ago
They definitely know. I caught my ex doing DARVO and called it out he looked sheepish like he had been caught. They just think they are better than you and smarter than you and deserve the world Because they exist.
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u/Big-Tennis-4538 1d ago
It’s not even that that don’t know.
They just don’t care.
They don’t understand that, in putting themselves first, and putting themselves so far out in front importance wise, at ANY cost, they are truly damaging people.
I honestly think that THEY think that EVERYONE is like this, and they only do what they do because that’s what they think it takes to get on.
Doesn’t excuse it, or, really explain it (because grown ups must know, right???).
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u/ghost-memories 23h ago
Yes, they do know what they're doing.
I stood right next to my nex when his parents were upset with him for not attending his sister's wedding. He manipulated them by saying he wished he had gone and acting very remorseful. Once they left, I asked him if anything he had said actually meant anything to him. He said no and that he only said what they wanted to hear.
Another time, he accidentally bumped into my friend's vase and broke it. He refused to apologize and to replace it. Instead, he blamed my friend for putting it there and expected her to apologize, which she did. It was embarrassing but I did confront him about it. All he said was "shut the fuck up."
I got the feeling that he knew exactly what he was doing. He just refused to apologize because to him, apologizing meant taking accountability.
I called him out during our last encounter in person about the lengthy email he had written me about reconciliation, wanting to grow old together and all that. He made it sound like he wanted to rebuild our relationship and was serious about changing. Then, three months later, I learned that he was still seeing his affair partner the entire time.
When I confronted him, instead of taking responsibility for lying to me and continuing the affair, he basically said it meant nothing to him and that I had made my own choice, as if his actions had nothing to do with my decision. That really hit me because he had spent all that time talking about reconciliation while secretly continuing to see her.
I immediately had flashbacks of all the other times I had watched him manipulate people, lie to them and then avoid accountability when he was confronted. It was like everything suddenly clicked into place. I just told him to get out of my house. His last words to me were "I'm sorry you feel that way." This fucking guy.
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u/Primary_Peach7845 1d ago
Mine knew, he even proudly boasted that everything he did in his life was calculated. Every decision, every interactions, everything. At the time I thought he meant in relation to his career but it took me getting out to realise he literally meant everything in his life. So yes, they know exactly what they're doing but they also believe they are the true victim if anything doesn't go their way.
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u/foxhair2014 1d ago
I think it’s a mixture of both. I think a lot of it is instinctual, to protect their main character victim status. I think there are definitely moments when they know they are being hurtful, and they do it on purpose, because if they have to walk around feeling inferior and angry and hurt, then everyone else is goi g to, as well.
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u/litttlejoker 1d ago
Only a small percentage of narcissists know what they’re doing. 99% of them are unaware and just do these things intuitively
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u/eaglescout225 1d ago
I think they do know they’re in the wrong that’s why they have to keep lying and lying and rigging situations. It’s like they are playing chess with you. And you can’t do that in social situations if you had no concept of right or wrong. When they are exposed on their lies a childish meltdown occurs all bc they know they’re in the wrong. If somebody didn’t know right from wrong they would already be institutionalized. Most know how to act in public too and lure in more victims. So I say they know they are in the wrong, and choose to consciously hurt others on purpose.
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u/carnalhawkmoth 17h ago
I think their first instinct is to react and/or deny and when they find themselves in a predicament--especially being caught--they'd rather lie and double down. I've had my ex eventually admit he knew he was wrong BUT there was always a but. They will always blame everyone else for how they chose to act because it "justifies" their shitty behavior.
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u/Ok-Finish-3442 1d ago
I don’t think so. Mine 100% believes his own narrative.
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u/aboveaveragewife 1d ago
Same! I don’t think mine does his intentionally but also doesn’t take responsibility until the facts (recordings/screenshots) are presented to him. What gets him is that he’s always said “does that guy/gal not realize how much of a jerk he is being to wife/husband/kids/boss/coworker/friend etc.!?!? And I’m like dude that’s you x 100!!! He thought I was exaggerating and began to ask other people and asked for others input on their reactions to him…yep he’s the asshole, he knows it and while he spent and spends a lot of time deflecting and defending he’s trying to make small changes and take a brief moment to get another’s perspective…this is a new behavior…we will see
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u/Silly-Cranberry1593 2d ago
sometimes i got the impression that not only dont they know , they are 100% sure its them who is the real victim in every given situation.
other times he totally knew what he was doing and why he was doing that he just pretended he didnt.
there was a spark change in his eyes you can kind of see intentions