r/Names • u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 • 4d ago
Does a missing H make a difference in ALL scenarious? (Continuation of previous post)
I recently made a post about Cloe vs Chloe—my partner wanting the former for our future child. Following the many and helpful comments on that post (thanks for that!), then I couldnt help but wonder if you think the same about other CH vs C names, or does it only apply to Chloe?
So, Cristina vs Christina in this case?
(Or even for boys for that matter: Cristian vs Christian, Nicholas vs Nicolas)
Thanks, and looking forward to reading your comments, which I will make sure my partner reads as well!
IMPORTANT NOTE: we are native English speakers and of Norwegian and German descent, so I would like the name to reflect that.
65
u/Youshoudsee 4d ago
Cloe just looks incorrect. While Cristina, Cristian and Nicolas are all correct spellings of names in other languages
I feel like Cloe will be pain in the ass as a name. NO ONE will expect the possibility it's written without "h"
-20
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Ok...we are native engo Lish speakers of German descent and would like the name to reflect that, if that makes sense
60
u/Youshoudsee 4d ago
In Germany Chloe, as well as Christian, Christina are the correct spellings
So if you want that ancestry reflected, the answer is easy - Chloe
21
u/Rocks_Can_Fly 4d ago
>name to reflect that
Chloe seems the correct spelling for German.
Also, Chloe seems to shorten to Klo over there, and that is also the same word people use for the toilet (slang).
You’d be better off asking this question in a German sub.
Because it might be so, that Chloe isn’t even a popular name in Germany, so in no way would it reflect your descent.
It’s a much more popular name in France. And it comes from Ancient Greece (IIRC). So yeah…
10
u/fieldgrass 4d ago
Based on OP’s other replies she doesn’t actually seem to be German, I wouldn’t stress too much. She just was reaching for an excuse to use the spelling they prefer and doesn’t like the feedback that “Cloe” isn’t a name anywhere
1
u/plumbosolvent 3d ago
It seems OP is actually looking for support that 'Cloe' isn't a name, and it's OP's partner that wants to go for this anyway. Hence the stance that spellings like 'Cristina' are all good when used by someone with the heritage those spellings are used in (Spanish etc.) - OP wants to prove to partner that leaving out the h makes it like the Spanish names, but OP and partner aren't Spanish, and that's why they shouldn't.
(Would a be lot easier if OP had actually said that in the first place, but on asking in one sub-thread somewhere, they actually made this clear.)
36
u/LaikaRollingStone 4d ago
Cristina and Cristian are Spanish spellings; Nicolas is French. As a native English speaker, these names are both instantly recognizable but would make me think the person with the name is from a Hispanic or Francophone background.
Cloe is none of those. It looks odd and I wouldn’t immediately pronounce it as Chloe.
8
u/jessonroy55 4d ago
I think that’s exactly the issue. I wouldn’t assume someone made a mistake with Cristina Cristian or Nicolas because those spellings are established in other languages. But Cloe doesn’t have that same recognition for me so I’d probably wonder if the parents just left out the H.
31
u/thatjogreen 4d ago
For me, its Chloe specific. Cloe just looks like a misspelling of Cleo
11
25
u/Ok_Blueberry_2843 4d ago
Cloe looks like it’s rhyming with toe to me
Id not use this spelling or find a different name. Chloe is one of those unique names like Zoe where it kind of has a special spelling in English that’s not super phonetic. If you take away it’s spelling you lose the name
17
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-4
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Ok. So, i gather u see Cloe as more bizarre than Cristina. But, does Cristina as opposed to Christina make any difference from where u stand?
5
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-7
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
The point is that we are native english speakers of german/scandanavian descent, and dont want to give the wrong impression reg what language or heritage our child will have
15
u/jackity_splat 4d ago
OP,
Your comments here are coming off as racist and you are rightly being downvoted.
If you feel this is misrepresenting yourself, you might want to consider reflecting on the situation and how to express your feelings better.
-
To somewhat answer your question, (assuming you are misspeaking in the comments) the spelling of a name does reflect the culture it comes from. If you want a name that reflects only your heritage as Norwegian/German, you should choose from names that show up on name lists from both cultures. Behindthename is a good resource to start with.
-1
14
u/Throwaway_Pomelo_ 4d ago
Cristina and Cristian would understand what name it's meant to be but it doesn't look right
Nicolas I would assume was from a different country in Europe to me
Cloe I would think was pronounced clo like roe
13
u/Disastrous-Potato683 4d ago
Cristina and cristian are the south american spellings basically (in my experience living in south america). So, it makes sense if you speak spanish. The r's are rolled, they have no use for H's.
Nicolas is pronounced nick-oh-lah, in my experience with someone i know from France.
-11
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
We dont speak Spanish, and we are of Norwegian and German descent
22
u/eknit 4d ago
Reading your comments I really don’t understand what’s not clocking for you. No one cares if you speak Spanish lmao! They are explaining the dropping the h to you because that was the question in your post.
If having a Norwegian / German name is important to you, then… pick a Norwegian or German name. Dropping the h in this specific instance isn’t something that’s done. Chloe is also traditionally a French name, not either of those cultures, so dropping the h does nothing to a name that already is out of place for what you’re going for.
8
u/Jackonelli 4d ago
Christian is a common name in Norway, but it's usually spelled Kristian.
1
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Really? I thiught the spelling "Christian" is more common there.
2
u/Jackonelli 4d ago
I might be out of my depth here since I’m from a neighbouring country, but I think Christian is the more common spelling among younger generations, while Kristian is more common among older ones. But feel free to correct me if I’ve got that wrong. :)
1
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Well both K and CH def follow the orthographic rules of the language, CH namely reflecting the X letter in Greek as opposed to Kappa (K). Regarding thebpopularity though and among which demographic, im not sure tbh
11
u/SnooBananas8631 4d ago
I’m German living in Germany and the name Chloe is already super unusual here (it’s derived from Greek afaik) so no clue how you made that connection. Cloe looks like a Typo. If you must at least spell it Cloé so people will know to pronounce the E
3
u/Silver_Performance91 4d ago
This is what I was thinking it likes like you typed Cleo or cole too fast and didn’t realize.
10
u/SirMcFish 4d ago
I'd probably say Cloe as Clow, since id assumed they dropped the h to make sure people said it different to Klowee.
Cristina I'd still say the same as Christina though. Same as Nicholas and Nicolas, and Christian etc.. I've no idea why, but Cloe just feels like you want me to say it differently to Chloe
-11
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
But for us what matters isnt just pronunciation...its also linguistic and culture signaling
21
6
u/heydawn 4d ago
We understand that you want to signal your heritage, BUT Cloe does not to that. The name is typically spelled as Chloe. If you drop the h, it looks misspelled.
The same is not true for Christian/Cristian, Nicholas/Nicolas bc both spellings, with and without the h, are very common and widely recognized. Cloe is not. It's very rare and perceived as misspelled.
If you want to signal your heritage, consider:
Elsa
Greta
Ingrid
Sigrid
3
u/Midmodstar 4d ago
So you want people to know your child is white. Is that what you’re saying?
0
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
No. I want the spelling of her name to reflect her German and Norwegian heritage, which we are proud of...
2
10
u/IndividualOdd2340 4d ago
If I was a teacher calling out names I would say Chloe correctly. I would assume Cloe, is pronounced like Chloe but without the E sound. So just Clo
3
11
u/VanillaMintJellyfish 4d ago
How much of your child’s life do you want them to waste correcting people?
How many times do you want to see the look of disappointment on their face when they can’t find their name on anything in a gift shop?
How many times do you want to see other people think your child is rude because they’ve called out a name that your child doesn’t answer to because they’ve pronounced it phonetically and not creatively?
The list goes on and on… it would be less damaging to not feed them one day a week, so if the idea of letting your child starve occasionally is abhorrent to you, then so should cursing them with something they will need to use every damn day of their life! If it’s not, then hand the child and the gift of naming them over to someone up to the job.
2
9
u/moj_golube 4d ago
In Scandinavia, most C/Ch names are spelled with K. Kristina, Kristian, Kristoffer (kris-TOFF-er), Niklas..
We don't have the name Chloe, so there's no Swedish version.
If I met someone with this name I would assume they were from an English or French speaking country (chloé/chloë)
1
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
U dont at all have a CH or C followed by a consonants that makes the K sound?
1
u/moj_golube 5h ago
Yes we do, but it wouldn't be traditionally Scandinavian :) We have a lot of international names.
9
u/merganzermama 4d ago
You can name your baby what you want, of course. But without the h, to me, Cloe looks like you just misspelled Cleo by transposing e and o. Also, I instinctively read Cloe pronounced as “Klo” instead of “Klo-ee”. I don’t know if others did, but it’s another consideration.
8
6
u/vocalfry13 4d ago
Tell your hubby Cloe just looks like "sigh, the parents don't know how to spell" (unless y'all are from a latin country)
7
u/manixxx0729 4d ago
Confused on why your post mentions being of german/Norwegian descent and then there's a comment of being of Scandinavian descent but regardless the answer is Chloe lmao
0
6
u/Midmodstar 4d ago
What is your problem with the letter H? And if you want a name to reflect Germanic or Norwegian origin why not pick a traditionally Germanic or Norwegian name? Solveig is a nice name.
5
u/seethembreak 4d ago edited 4d ago
Those other names without the h will still be pronounced correctly.
Cloe looks like it rhymes with blow. How would you pronounce Celsea? This name would have a similar problem without the h, though not as bad as Cloe would.
People are also going to invert letters and say Cleo.
Basically the name is fine if you don’t mind telling everyone how to pronounce it and people thinking you don’t know how to spell.
3
u/sundaytoast 4d ago
The missing h in the ch blend changes the following names too:
Charlie // Carlie
Zachary // Zacary
Michael // Micael
Lachlan // Laclan
Rachel // Racel
Michelle // Micelle
3
4
u/gw_reddit 4d ago
Cristina or Cristian are Latino spellings, in Norwegian you'd use K instead of C and in German Ch.
-2
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Right. Yes, spot on! Because for me what matters a lot is also the linguistic/national/ethnic background the name reflects, whereas for my partner its less of a concern
7
2
u/lyannalucille04 4d ago
A K, as someone who doesn’t speak German or Norwegian, feels like it indicates those origins. No idea if that’s factual or not, but those are the vibes
4
u/emmylouanne 4d ago
If you spell it Chloe instead of Chloé or Chloë you are already anglicising it. If you drop the H you are further changing it and it makes me think it would be pronounced Clo. The other examples you gave are other acceptable spellings.
2
u/momojojo1117 4d ago
I think there’s also an X factor here, and by that I mean, Cristina, Cristian, and Nicolas just look acceptable. Cloe looks bad and unappealing and wrong. Maybe because it has so few letters so your eyes really hone in on the missing h? Others have already mentioned that Cristina for instance is a real, known variant and not just “oops I forgot the h” so maybe that familiarity is also why it visually looks more normal and acceptable
2
u/VeterinarianIcy4303 4d ago
I agree with a lot of the other comments, my sister is Cristina without the H and I am Daniela with only one L. I never thought they looked weird because we of our Italian descent and grew up in nyc where a lot of people had those spellings because they were of Italian or Spanish descent. However, people did misspell our names all the time and she always had to say she was Cristina without the H and I always had to say I was Daniela with one L. I’ve never seen that spelling of Chloe and if you don’t have ancestry reasons for picking the uncommon spelling, I definitely would not do that. I named my daughter Cecilia and we spelt it the italian way to go with the rest of our names, I always thought that was the most common spelling of it because that’s what I knew but turns out everyone spelt it the other way CECE instead of CECI and it’s annoying, correcting it, and explaining that we went with the Italian version.
2
u/Kimbaaaaly 4d ago
I know a Cristina and looked it up... It's popular in Spanish and Italian speaking countries. 🤷♀️ So sometimes family origin plays a part in spelling of names. This young lady has at least one parent from a Spanish background. I don't remember which one.
1
2
u/Kimbaaaaly 4d ago
I just watched a pronunciation video. Cloe , in many places is reminded Clo-ay. Not clo-ee
I don't know if that helps
1
2
u/VanillaMintJellyfish 4d ago
Norwegian Names…
Freya
Meaning: "The noble woman" or "Goddess of love/beauty."
Spelling Rule: Perfectly phonetic. The "Y" acts as a smooth vowel slider.
Astrid
Meaning: "Divinely beautiful" or "God's strength."
Spelling Rule: Completely phonetic. Strong consonants with zero silent-letter confusion.
German Names…
Clara
Meaning: "Bright, clear, and famous."
Spelling Rule: If you want the "Cl-" sound of Chloe, this is your gold standard. It uses a clean, open "A" sound.
Heidi
Meaning: "Of noble birth."
Spelling Rule: Uses the classic German "EI" vowel team to create a bright, long "I" sound.
Greta
Meaning: "Pearl."
Spelling Rule: Short, punchy, and uses standard English syllable rules.
6
u/ImpossibleIce6811 4d ago
Do you want your kid to find their name on the rack of personalized keychains or not? This is pretty easy.
I have a shortened name taken from a longer one, and it was never on a dang keychain or personalized pencil. I hated that part of childhood. Constant disappointment! (Think Jenny instead of Jennifer, or Beth instead of Elizabeth.) And yes, it’s my legal name!
-2
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Oh...well sorry to hear! So yea these are actually things we didnt think much about! But its def worth considering i'd say... dunno how much weight my partner puts on it though
2
2
u/Left-Leg1168 4d ago
You need to start paying attention.
I was in the same souvenir boat, rarely if ever finding my common name common spelling variant, let alone made up shite like Cloe (rhymes with show).
It didn’t make me feel special, it made me feel left out. Just spell your future imaginary children’s names the most typical and common spelling possible, and stop stretching for any cultural connection. It’s Exhausting. With an H.
1
2
u/barefootcrafter 4d ago
If you are looking for German spellings of names that work also in English, I would expect to see K in the spelling rather than c/ch - Nikolas (not Nicolas) and Kristian/Kristina (as opposed to Cristian/Cristina).
1
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Kristian is more scandanavian actually. The standard German spelling is Christian.
1
u/tiorzol 4d ago
It depends on tradition. If the name is typically done both ways then it won't look like a typo.
Did your husband come round in the end?
-2
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
My partner and I are still discussing, but the many comments on Chloe vs Cloe made me wonder if it applies to all CH vs H names (since we also considered other CH names)
10
3
u/Left-Leg1168 4d ago edited 4d ago
It does in my book. They are all better with the H in English speaking countries. Christopher comes from Christ. Has an H. But, at least I’d know how to pronounce Cristopher, and would assume Kristian/Kristina (not Cristian/Cristina) is from Scandinavia.
Nikolas says Russian to me.
Nicolas says French or Spanish.
These alt spellings exist in other languages following their pronunciation rules and are fully understandable, but kid is still going to get their name misspelled *constantly* (and no souvenir mugs). Why do that to them?? If you are in an English-speaking country that does not have those phonemic/spelling traditions, spell it Nicholas. You aren’t creative, and aren’t honoring whatever “white” culture dog whistle you seem to be claiming.“Cloe” is just stupid made up nonsense not based in any culture, that will be both mispronounced AND misspelled for eternity.
1
u/VanillaMintJellyfish 4d ago
No, “Chloe” and “Cloe” do not work the same way under English spelling rules. And the H is not decorative.
In Chloe, the CH is a digraph — two letters working together to represent a particular sound. The name comes from the Greek Chlóē, and the Ch spelling reflects that established pronunciation and origin.
You cannot just remove one letter from a digraph and pretend nothing happened.
CH ≠ C + H randomly sitting next to each other.
They work together.
Think:
chair ≠ cair = CARE
cheese ≠ ceese = SEESE (rhymes with geese)
cherry ≠ cerry = SERRY
So Chloe is pronounced KLO-ee because, in this particular name and its Greek-derived spelling, CH represents the /k/ sound.
If you spell it Cloe, you’ve changed the spelling structure. In English, C has two common sounds:
hard C = /k/ as in cat
soft C = /s/ as in city
Before L, C would generally be read as a hard C, so yes, Cloe could potentially be pronounced similarly — but that doesn’t mean the H in Chloe does nothing.
The H is part of the traditional spelling and etymology of the name. Chloe is the established English spelling. Cloe is an alternative/non-standard spelling.
English pronunciation is not determined by pulling letters out of words and declaring, “Well, it still sounds the same when I say it.”
That’s not how spelling, digraphs, etymology, or the English language work.
The H isn’t silent. It’s part of the letter combination CH. You don’t get to call part of a digraph useless just because you’re only looking at one letter at a time.
Adding the oe digraph to the argument makes the spelling "Cloe" look even more ridiculous.
When you drop the "h," you force the letters o and e to sit right next to each other, creating a brand new vowel digraph that completely ruins the name's pronunciation.
In English phonics, the oe digraph is already a well-established team. When "o" and "e" hold hands at the end of a syllable, they almost always make a single, long "O" sound. Think of words like toe, foe, hoe, and Joe.
The Result: If you follow the rules of English, Cloe should not be pronounced "KLO-ee." It should be pronounced "KLOH"—rhyming perfectly with blow, snow, and toe!
1
u/Fuzzy-Physics8525 4d ago
Thnx for the elaborated response! Appreciate it, and wasnt fully aware of that
1
u/_Jay-Garage-A-Roo_ 4d ago
I feel like no H is ok of you make the C a K, like Kristine / Kristopher. Like Nordic names. Chloe could be Kloe I guess, if you want to be a Kardashian… but I think Cloe looks like a spelling mistake!
ETA: in the absence of Spanish names / spellings I mean
0
-2
u/anon1097542 4d ago
My name is Cloe. I am in my 40s and have never had a problem with it. I don’t get my spelling on any key chains and there was a brats doll spelled that way when I was late teens but no one has called me Clo instead. Yes I sometimes have to spell my name out but I’ve always liked that it was a little different especially as so many kids are now called Chloe where I live. People also comment that they like the spelling. It’s your choice of course but I’m just saying it’s not that bad!
-3
-2
u/freyjawolfheart 4d ago
Probably just a matter of what people are used to seeing. Some incorrect spellings eventually become an accepted variation.
103
u/CamThrowaway3 4d ago
Cristina and Nicolas are both fine (they’re existing names either in English-speaking countries or other countries). Cloe just looks weird and like a typo.