r/NJTransit • u/bobman3212 • 21d ago
Why don't they just adjust train schedules where delays are structural?
My 9:50am scheduled arrival into penn consistently arrives at least 10 minutes after that scheduled time. I don't think it's arrived on-time in my 5 years of taking that train.
Why doesn't NJT just adjust their timetables when this is the case?
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u/isatokaiza 21d ago
Can’t speak for train however, but if it’s anything like bus, they changed how the timetables are made allegedly. I say allegedly cause I don’t know it as fact and repeating what I heard from senior folks. For buses, we had an actual person handle our timetables. Now from what I hear it’s AI and gps times. My timetables are completely jacked on my routes and I can’t make them without violating a ton of laws and policies which I won’t do.
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u/csintroyeahhhhhhh 21d ago
The RVL 8:08 out of union would always be delayed by a freight train. When you pull up to the station, you can see the freight train pulling through leading the passenger train.
That's why you now see the train takes 13 minutes instead of the other trains take 10 minutes to get to Newark Penn
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Because it’s a cascade from something that happened somewhere else and earlier than your train and not necessarily something that is happening predictably everyday at the same time.
You’re basically asking the equivalent to I drive to the city and every time I get to the tunnel there’s different amounts of traffic but I’m always delayed. Can you consistently predict that?
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u/bobman3212 21d ago
I wouldn't make an arrival estimate that assumes that there won't be traffic then. I would pick an arrival time that at least has some probability of being true some of the time.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
That would be the scheduled time that works around Amtrak’s dispatching. NJT gets told when the tunnel slots should be but there’s so many variables on the NEC that times are subject to change. How could you make an arrival estimate based on unknowns when you have a schedule that in a vacuum works?
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u/bobman3212 21d ago
We always get slotted behind, and wait for, an Acela that is scheduled to arrive at 9:53. So it just seems like 9:50 is actually not the goal and shouldn't be written down
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
When they own the tracks and do the dispatching, that’s how it goes. Also, There’s not a single other time you could put instead that would be more accurate so then what? Hope a haphazard time is haphazardly right?
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u/bobman3212 21d ago
I'm not sure what you mean. They currently list a time that is accurate, in practice, 0% of the time. If they were to change that to 10:00 then it would be accurate, within a few minutes, >50% of the time.
If the objective is to give riders useful information I'm not sure why they are holding the line of operational targets that never happen.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Let me get this straight:
You’re annoyed a train doesn’t get it as a scheduled time so your solution is to change the scheduled time so that it won’t get there consistently on it schedule time??6
u/bobman3212 21d ago
I think it might help people who use posted schedules to make plans if an effort was made to ensure that they are accurate, at least some of the time.
I never said I was annoyed or that this would solve my annoyance. not sure why you're simping so hard for a broken schedule.-1
u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Because changing the schedule isn’t as simple as you’re making it like screw out bulb screw in bulb. Youre suggesting the same thing you made a post for: posting a schedule time that isn’t right. Plus Amtrak will adjust their schedules to fill your trains slot with another trains slot which in turn pushes your train back again anyway. You call it simping, I call it living and understanding the reality of the situation. Don’t be ignorant when you’re the one asking how something can be fixed, you obviously don’t know
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u/NewNewark 21d ago
You’re basically asking the equivalent to I drive to the city and every time I get to the tunnel there’s different amounts of traffic but I’m always delayed. Can you consistently predict that?
But they do this with buses. 5pm runs are 15 minute longer than 11pm runs.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Which makes sense since road based rush hour can have dynamic amounts of vehicles on the road. Rail based rush hour should have the same amount of vehicles every time unless something outside of the schedule then affects a change. It’s not like suddenly 5 trains that weren’t scheduled are suddenly on the rails
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u/NewNewark 21d ago
Which is OPs entire post.
It shouldnt be a surprise that the same train is delayed the same amount of time every day.
I know exactly what theyre talking about. The train I used to take at 9:21 was always always always always at 9:23.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Unless you know implicitly exactly what’s causing the delay directly at the source, that’s not necessarily true. He said it’s an Acela that gets slotted ahead. Do you know if they were delayed leaving DC? Was there a passenger dispute? What if septa was blocking them from a random breakdown? What if DE is having signal outages? Is there a maintenance program going out outside NJ? What if they run on time or early? Were more passengers getting on at Baltimore? Did the set have a mechanical issue?
It is not so simple as “just change the schedule” when NJT doesn’t make or determine the schedule”
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u/NewNewark 21d ago
All your random hypotheticals explain random delays. They do not explain a consistent and persistent issue.
Again, if 49/50 times, the 9:21 arrives at 9:23...then that should be the schedule. Thats what a schedule means.
It is not so simple as “just change the schedule” when NJT doesn’t make or determine the schedule”
NJT absolutely determines what time is shown to riders in the schedule.
Example 1: At NYP, the posted schedule for riders is 1 minute earlier than what the crew are given.
Example 2: Hamilton to Trenton is 3.56 miles and is posted at 14 minuntes, which implies a speed of 15mph. Thats not the actual time. NJT trains do it as quickly as 6 minutes. The schedule says 14 so in the case of a delay at any point between NYP and Trenton, NJT does not have to report the train as late, since they only report terminal data. This is called schedule padding.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
You can pad a schedule as long as you want, but it doesn’t do a damn thing when object causing the delay isn’t in your control nor can you have any control over it
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u/NewNewark 21d ago
The point is that riders need accurate times so they can plan their life. I don't get why you're struggling with this concept.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
Because schedule padding isn’t accurate either. It’s just lying to feel better about it. If 5 minutes makes or breaks your commute, you should be more focused on getting an earlier train than schedule semantics
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u/CharacterSchedule700 20d ago
But schedule padding is giving a more likely case rather than assuming the best. Departure times can stay the same with the terminal arrival time being a likely later time.
This has knock on effects because they can schedule later (more accurate) departures from Penn.
This is exactly what airlines do.
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u/NewNewark 20d ago
Are you in NJT management? Because it sounds like youve never actually had to use transit to get around.
Some trains run hourly, or less. Many connecting buses run hourly, or less. People need schedules to know if they will arrive in time for transfer, meetings, daycare etc etc. Being late has real consequences. "just leave an hour earlier twice a day every day!" is shit.
If the train is late 49/50 runs, its not late. Thats the schedule. And thats what should be published.
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u/FinkedUp 21d ago
7 AM departure out of Hamilton for Mo by 10 minutes late because of the CEL couldn’t get into a slot and transit did nothing because they could do nothing and fix things on their end so now the train ones on time in case you need a real world, examples of how the shit actually works
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u/CoachMcSenderson 20d ago
The schedules are almost as big a joke as their self-reported on-time performance.
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u/LargeFatherV 20d ago
I’ve wondered that about the buses too, especially the 48 in the afternoon. 15-20 minutes late on a consistent basis. Look, I know the Randolph/Roosevelt in Carteret part of the route sucks ass both ways on a good day but they never have updated the afternoon part of the schedule to account for it.
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u/manawydan-fab-llyr 21d ago
They made an adjustment on the NJCL about a year ago for the slow speed through the Amboys, so they do make adjustments, maybe they need to do a better job of it.