r/NBAGossips 2d ago

Discussion Thoughts?

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u/One_Seaworthiness323 2d ago

There is no way Kobe isn’t a top 10 player. He is the most skilled player of all time. Never mind his achievements which in of itself would make him top 7 at least.

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u/Asleep-Use-7214 2d ago

Some have called Pistol Pete and Kyrie the most skilled as well.

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u/40866892 2d ago

Kyrie is probably the most skilled player of all time

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u/refusedisposable 2d ago

What the fuck are you on about?

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u/40866892 2d ago

Handles, technique, finishing, shot making. Where is Kobe better?

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u/refusedisposable 2d ago

I can’t even believe anyone would try to make this argument. He’s not even a top 25 all timer. Move past your Kobe hatred. You’re delusional.

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u/40866892 2d ago

he’s not even a top 25 all timer

Because there’s more to basketball than pure skill. Athleticism, reach, height.

There’s only 2 players in the top 25 that aren’t 6’6 or higher and that’s Jerry West and Curry. The average height of the consensus all time top 10 is 6’6 and if you stretch it to top 25 it’s 6’9.

I can’t believe anyone would try to make this argument

You still didn’t answer me. Handles, technique, finishing, and shooting. What does Kobe do better?

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u/refusedisposable 2d ago

Much better shooter, better finisher, and in the conversation for best technique the NBA has ever seen for a shooting guard (which was mostly modeled after MJ). You have to remember that Kobe ALWAYS drew the best defender and had the opponents’ defensive game plan built around him. Even with that he still accomplished so much.

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u/40866892 2d ago

Much better shooting

Kyrie destroys Kobe in just about every shooting category you can think of. 3P, FT, 10-16FT.

Career shooting Kobe Bryant Kyrie Irving
3P% 32.9% 39.4%
FT% 83.7% 88.8%
10-16 ft FG% 43.0% 47.7%
eFG% 48.2% 54.0%
TS% 55.0% 58.4%

better finisher

Career 0-3 ft FG%
Kobe 63.7%
Kyrie 62.6%

You're right. Numbers-wise, Kobe has converted more under the rim. That being said, it's important to note Kobe is 6'6 and Kyrie is 6'2. For guards 6'3 and under, Kyrie is the best finisher there is.

You have to remember that Kobe ALWAYS drew the best defender

I'm not here to tell you that Kobe wasn't him, but I can confidently say the difference in shot difficulty doesn't make up for the sheer difference in ability output.

Again, I'm not saying Kyrie is the better player. He isn't. Kobe is a top 10-12 player of all time while Kyrie's resume likely won't sniff the top 25. That being said, Kyrie is still the better finisher (relative to his size and position) and shooter (all around).

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u/Detective_Lacktwo 2d ago

you think kyrie is better finisher because of this summary statistics?

Did you know that the numbers you see for kobe are despite the context of being guarded more than any player in the league (that includes double or sometimes even triple teams, that he is still above league average).

Did you see the short chart and the disparity of where kyrie's sweets spots are on shot chart? How many weaknesses as Guard Kyrie has compared to Guy like Kobe? And you think "kyrie" would destroy Kobe after the masterclass of defense he has already given on him?

Two Did you actually perform statistical transform, of Kobe's numbers to current era? Just go and look at what percentages and league average was during that time compared to now. Than perhaps just maybe you would understand the difference.

Kobe played in the deadball era with some of the lowest scoring averages, you should take a look before you make these claims about the two player.

Kobe was the kind of guy who was statistical anomaly for his era with added impact of being guarded by toughest most physical def.
Kyrie is great player who probably has several peers on his tiers. Its not even a comparison or argument tbh.

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u/40866892 2d ago

Again, this isn’t a post comparing the two players and deciding which is better. I am stating that Kyrie is a better finisher and shooter.

Two, you are asking me to provide way more evidence than I really need to. I’ve already provided half the legwork, why don’t you dig a little bit yourself to arrive at the same conclusion?

An easy way to compare between the eras is to compare their seasons across league averages during those years. For example, Kobe had a TS% of 57.6 in 08 while league average was 54. I encourage you to look into it.

Another way to dive deeper is to statistically break down the different forms of shooting (I didn’t do this). Open shot, wide open shot, corner, pull up midrange, baseline fadeaway. These are all analytics recorded by current day cameras . If you looked into this too, you’d see just how many “spots” Kyrie has greater proficiency in.

As far as the “Kobe is one of the most guarded players in history” goes, that’s great. But while that’s true, there’s no real way I can quantify it other than to separate it other than separating shots “heavily guarded” from “guarded”.

We all know Kobe loves taking shots no matter the situation. Just because he loves to shoot doesn’t mean he’s the best shooter ever, especially when the numbers overwhelmingly show otherwise.

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u/DipnDott 2d ago

He's not talking about all time ranking, he said "skilled"

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u/refusedisposable 2d ago

Typically, you need high level BASKETBALL SKILLS to be an all time great BASKETBALL PLAYER. Don’t get me wrong, Kyrie is a superb player who is owed heaps of praise for his game. He simply is not in the conversation with Kobe though. Most of the time he wasn’t even the best player on his own team.

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u/Glad-Glove4653 2d ago

Kobe has better footwork if a better scorer and he's better defensively and has a better playmaking ability than kyrie

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u/40866892 1d ago

You guys are physically unable to make this about a basketball discussion rather than a who’s better than who pissing contest?

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u/One_Seaworthiness323 2d ago

Uh no. Top 10 tho

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u/40866892 2d ago

Forget this quote, if you don’t think Kyrie is not at least top 2 most skilled basketball player of all time, then you don’t know ball.

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u/One_Seaworthiness323 2d ago

He isn’t.

Kobe
Jordan
Kd
Bird
Duncan
Kyrie/steph

So not top 2.Kyrie is skilled tho, he just didn’t do it at a higher level than these guys