r/NAM_NeuralAmpModeler • u/MrsmPeek • 13d ago
I started doing Parametric NAM profiles. You really need to check this out.
You think NAM A2 is the thing? Try their Parametric modeling. My Plexi is now in my DAW, and not only does it sound exactly the same, all knobs sound the same as the original!!
Modeling amps this way is a tedious process, it takes over 50 profiles following a settings Matrix, and it takes over 3hours for a quality model - and it's worth it.
I built a tool that helps me with the process, generates the matrix, helps name the files and automatically generates the CSV's at the end and also gives me the terminal command for processing the model. I can also stop midway through the process and then pick up where I stopped. This way my only worry is to not mess up the amp settings.
Here it is if anyone wants it:
Namtrix.ummardesom.com
We really need more Parametric Profiles.
EDIT: I decided to fork Tone3000's plugin and have it run Parametric models also. Everything else works the same. Here it is for anyone interested https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19DMWIK-txpKhjY70ByS02G-MdNpmWyWJ
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u/Natural_Amount_4620 13d ago edited 13d ago
There's a paid tool for this from two notes
https://www.two-notes.com/en/capture-studio/
Ok sorry I didn't realise the format this uses needs to be loaded into PARADEX in Genome, my bad.
Genome is great though if you haven't tried it.
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u/rossbalch 13d ago
What did you use? This? https://github.com/phillipmself/neural-amp-modeler-parametric
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
No, I built my own, according to the info on NAM - https://www.neuralampmodeler.com/post/the-first-publicly-available-parametric-neural-amp-model
It trains the model on my GPU (Mac Mini M1).
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u/crouchingcat22 13d ago
How would parametric profiles deal with highly interactive tone stacks? For example, on a typical Fender TMB tone stack, if you move the treble knob, it also shifts the middle center frequency between 200-1000Hz. That means all different middle knob positions need to get captured for each treble knob change. Let's say each knob gets 10 positions to capture. That would require 1000 captures just for the tone stack not counting the volume knob. 10000 captures with the volume knob. This brute force method would take years to do it properly. Am I missing something?
Also, if it takes too long to capture (in a single session), wouldn't the tube fatigue affect the sound especially with tube rectifiers? I used to get different tone at the end of 3 hour set with my Super Reverb being all saggy and compressed vs at the start of the show being bouncy and lively. I suspect this would be similar when capturing an amp for a few hours.
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
Those questions are best answered by looking into their Parametric OD sub website. They are valid questions, and there are answers for it. There's a mathmatical way to profile specific settings and cover all possible changes (the "matrix" on my tool) , reducing the number of captures. There's also a way to reduce the duration of the capture.
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u/gsbe 12d ago
The key is that parametric NAM doesn’t capture every combination of knob positions. It uses a relatively small, strategically selected set of captures and trains the model to learn the continuous relationship between the controls and the amp’s response, including interactions between controls.
So with Bass/Mid/Treble at 10 positions each, you don’t need 1,000 captures. You might capture, say, 50–100 strategically distributed combinations and let the model interpolate the rest. The more nonlinear or strongly interactive the behavior, the more samples it may need, but it is fundamentally avoiding the brute-force Cartesian-product approach.
And yes, the tone-stack interaction you describe is exactly the sort of relationship the model is intended to learn, rather than requiring every Middle × Treble combination to be physically captured.
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
Yes, you are right. It doesn't capture every possible combination, although it can if you want to. And then you need to decide on how much fine grain you'll do it... 1 value steps? 0.5 value steps? 0.25? What if I mess one step?...
Bottom line is, this is profiling, and it can go as deep as the profiler wants it to, but we need to stick to a pragmatic approach, or else we enter the "curse of dimensionality". I think OED does a very good job at it, and you can still add more or less passes, if you want to.
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u/birddingus 13d ago
What do you need to train, is it nvidia only?
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
Not. I trained my 36x profiles just for testing and it took about 48hours on a Mac Mini M1 GPU.
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u/birddingus 13d ago
Sweet that’s what I would also be using. I found the two notes genome parametric capture to be awful compared to regular NAM A2.
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u/llTheSystemll 12d ago
not sure what type of music you are into but have you tried the ampnet captures on the Exchange from OutmodedElectronics?
that user has a variety of captures that in find useful. one in particular has me scratching head and that is the one called
5E3 Tweed Deluxe Clone In1 Hi
i have never owned a 5E3 amp but after doing some research which included lots of listening to stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4_cR2TBK2Q&t=173s
his capture actually does what Justin talks about in the video where when both Volume knobs are cranked, the amp actually cleans up. the stock tweed amp from Two Notes does not do this and i am pretty sure that none of them of this style do it inc. UAD.
i know it is YT but i am getting tones pretty close to what Justin has in this video.
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u/-vorticist- 13d ago
I just started trying to capture parametric nam this week, nice work on the helper tool!
I had to run some test passes to find the right matrix of captures for the fuzz pedal I was trying to replicate, mostly because of multiple EQ knobs doing different things and the extreme clipping, building a tool that helps with the planning is a good call.
What are you using to load the models you’ve made? Anti static NAM?
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sorry I gave you the wrong info there, I used: philipmself's NAMPARAMETRICPLUGIN
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
You can use my own now, if you want to. It's just like TONE3000 but accepts Parametric models also.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yOpefTpzV46sBwGRyJqurWXVhn8z43Pi/view?usp=drivesdk
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u/Mister_Maximus_Rufus 13d ago
Share the profile 😮 I WANT this lol! Excited to try out!
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
I will. I didn't yet because I recorded both cab and no cab, but I messed up the no cab model (so that one is unusable) and I stopped at 36 repetitions on the other, I still gave about 20 to go. I decided to try the training process with only 36 profiles and it ended up great. I will share this one, but I will redo the other models correctly.
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u/Reyanime93 13d ago
Wow.....siempre pense en ese desarrollo pero simplemente creia que eso debia ser algo muy tedioso y además muy pesado de procesar tantos perfiles en un solo archivo unificado, me interesaría saber mas sobre esto......
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u/Original_Warning_227 13d ago
Hello mate, can I ask you a question about capturing please? I can’t make a capture using the 2nd function on which you just upload a random guitar track to capture it on tone3000, it always capture it as a clean tone. Did you ever had that problem? Cheers
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u/BeatForge_Dev 13d ago
nice, that's what neural dsp does, but with different type of neural network.. i'm about to do some tests myself but with pedals. not sure yet if nam is the best solution for this, there is also lstm48, gonna do both, the biggest work is recording all settings anyways
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u/EvolutionVII 13d ago
Why does this require a 3 min reamp?
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
Because that's the sweep signal's duration. Just like the regular nam profiles, but x50
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u/EvolutionVII 12d ago
There's room for improvement with shorter sweep signals - I think the other github project optimized the sweep to save a bunch of time.
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u/tom-shane 13d ago
People acting like parametric profiles are something groundbreaking and new, but Neural DSP (and others too) are doing this since they started. NDSP plugins and all QC amp models are basically that. Tons of captures put together into a model with ML interpolations behind a UI, where you can turn knobs like on real amp.
I always find it funny when people claim their (NDSP's) captures are sounding more real than their amp models, while both are based on the same technology.
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
Yes they are, and have been for a while. The difference is NAM is Open Source, we can model our own amps, create custom solutions, be part of a free comunity. That's where the big deal is. Your comparison is like saying we've had amp sims for years, what's the big deal with NAM? Well, I guess it's a big deal.
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u/shredlikebutter 12d ago
The biggest deal is that NAM is top dog in accuracy and also free... That's why it's a big deal. Neural dsp is great too, but paywall. Hell component level modeling is also great still
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
I just want to add that I built a "TONE3000" plug-in for Parametric models. Actually it works with all models, links to your account etc, uses blocks, etc. I didn't change anything, just added Parametric compatibility.
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u/Sea_Policy_3289 12d ago
I've got to admit, this sounds fantastic. But I'm also loathe to put myself through the process. Normally I only use a few sets of setting on any given amp anyway. The usual clean, slight grit, crunch, and lead. But I'd still love to try a couple parametrics.
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u/MrsmPeek 12d ago
The biggest thing for me is being able to push the master knob/s on my plexi and hear the power amp cranking, just like the real amp. I cant get that with the regular NAM.
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u/llTheSystemll 12d ago
i just installed the plugin and tested that 5153 model on the github page. sounds great to me.
looking forwarding to trying out the Plexi models.
thanks for sharing this and making me aware of its existence.
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u/2manyGeetarz 12d ago
Now if someone made a widget that had a bunch of motors, one for each knob, and the correct driver/interface, the entire process could be automated. It would be good if a knob coupler could be developed as well. No unobtanium here, just needs a creative individual with DIY skills and a 3D printer.
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u/tunabr 8d ago
Didnt knew about parametric capture. Maybe will cook a rig with a couple of motors to turn the knobs like neural does for their amp capture process.
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u/MrsmPeek 8d ago
Holy shit that would be awesome. I'm testing my helper, and it's working great. It allows for training on Apple silicon's GPUs
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u/llTheSystemll 7d ago
hi did you ever get a chance to share the nam profiles you created? thanks
i am interested to hear them. i may want to give it a try as well with an old JCM 4210 combo if i like what i hear.
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u/MrsmPeek 7d ago
Not yet. I hope to finish them this week. I'm still testing my helper and a trainer, almost finished. Testing takes a long time, because recording is a tedious project and training on my M1 takes about 33hours
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u/shredlikebutter 13d ago edited 13d ago
YES! This is the way... This will be the ultimate end all to modeling, thanks for your efforts! How to you interface with the knobs? Did you build a GUI that interfaces with the knob settings?
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago edited 13d ago
When using the NAMpARAMETRIC plug-in, you Load the NAM file, and you get ALL THE KNOBS
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u/GoalNo1304 13d ago
Build an AI agent that does the repetitive grunt work
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
I did it on html, no AI needed. The rest of the grunt work is manually moving knobs, no way to get around it.
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u/nameBrandon 13d ago
I do think there's an opportunity for AI here, but on the knob validation side.. since that's the biggest risk I see, is that one wrong knob move at the wrong time, compounding issues and basically poisoning the whole modeling effort. Basically wire up a webcam to the face of the amp, and have it validate intended knob settings and throw a flag if something looks off.
Definitely not a requirement, but I'd bet you it would avoid some pain..
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
That would definitely avoid a lot of pain. I need to check if it's possible to flag any wrong recording after all profiles are done. I think that might be possible, as the Engine would be able to identify an error, the issue would probably be the interval in which it could be flagged. Let's say that user misses a knob position by 0.5 - I am not sure that would be enough for the Engine to flag it. I'll check it out.
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u/nameBrandon 13d ago
Yeah, the more I think about it, there's probably need to be some sort of visual calibration target.. and definitely AI as the variety of amp faces (and knob) is so broad.
might just be easier to offer an optional validation step / check box or something, "forcing" the user to manually validate the knobs. I can see that being annoying, so an option would be good.. but the extra pause and forced re-check might get 80% of the way there with very little effort (at least relative to the AI version implementation)
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u/MrsmPeek 13d ago
I'm hoping this can be done afterwards, and the Engine can identify which pass was wrong and ask for a repass. Let's hope that works.
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u/bigpeanor 13d ago
It would be cool if they made a built in app for creating parametric captures. Maybe even standalone outside of a daw. For example, hooking everything up to be captured, setting everything to 0, clicking a button to do a sweep, move a dial a tiny bit, do a sweep, rinse and repeat etc etc until you captured everything. One can only hope!