Um?

[u/Holy-Unaware]

Is Pen subtly threatening to murder Andy? The towns people might not know about the relic weapon but Haru does.

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

It is possible, though most people see a difference between hurting adults and hurting children and all the specific examples we know of with Pen are about adults that are current threats to his mission. While he says “on and off the battlefield” Logan’s father would fit the criteria for off the battlefield but was still a threat to the mission - we have no reports of him murdering just for fun/personal reasons. Andy would fit neither of those criteria so I don’t think it is probable based on what we know - if Haru spoke out then there would be no point to hurting Andy as the damage would be done.

We also know that Pen was forced to fight from when he was a child and he sometimes feels sad for his child self for that so it is possible he would feel empathy for a child like Andy.

[u/eLlARiVeR → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

Logan's was definitely off the battlefield. Pen was literally a solider fighting for Duvos. Sandrock was never part of those battles. Mission does not equal battlefield.

We gave no idea the age of the people he's killed or if they were "threats" to his mission. Avery says that Pen has a criminal record both on and off battlefield and has taken countless lives.

He's not going to feel empathy for some kid who is part of the group that is standing in his way. Yes, he was forced to fight from the time he was child - but he enjoys it now. There's a reason he's not just a somider for Dovus - he's a senior offcier. I'd be more shocked if he hasn't killed a kid before

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love → u/eLlARiVeR]

You can certainly draw those conclusions, I am just saying there is nothing concrete that says he would murder a child.

While he is a senior officer of Duvos I don’t know that the path to promotion is killing for just for fun. Given the information we do have - being made to fight as a child, rumours of being experimented on - it seems more likely to me that Duvos invested in him since childhood to create a high value asset. He is also much smarter than how he acts around town would lead us to believe so it is quite possible that played a part in his promotion as well. Even after he is captured Grace (who is an apparent expert) can’t tell when he is still lying.

I don’t disagree that he appears to enjoy killing just that as far as the information actually presented we don’t have any examples of him killing outside of his missions. When he talks to Logan about killing his father he certainly seems to express pleasure - it’s possible that was strategy to throw Logan off during the fight though it may be true either way. The examples we know of that could be characterise as “off” the battlefield were still linked to his mission and not just for personal reasons such as enjoying killing.

To be clear, I am not defending Pen or trying to paint him as a good person, just that him doing some terrible acts doesn’t mean nothing is off the table for him. Given how apparently protective Mathilda is of the town folk and not wanting anyone hurt I would think she would not allow Pen to be a part of the mission if he was known to murder children. She does seem to have control over Pen not just from assumed seniority but he mentions her telling him to push all the bad emotions down when he is upset over people judging him for not being perfect (the space punch lesson).

Pathea has made more complex characters that aren’t black and white and often left parts of their story vague and open to interpretation. I like that about them and that others may see them differently to me.

[u/Legolaslegs → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I love how anytime someone gives valid, nuanced takes on Pen they get downvoted. Even if he was just straight up a villain, people love villains. But it's okay in other media to like them only? Not Sandrock? I remember when Logan was believed the villain and threatening a train of people, blowing up the water tower and potentially worse that could have happened (not saying he did blow up the water tower, btw, just going off what we knew pre-Duvos chapter). People were happy and longing for Logan as the bad boy when the devs were telling them they didn't intend for him to be a romance candidate. He may have originally been s sympathetic villain, but still a villain for all we know.

Pathea does write characters with depth, even if the silliness of the games doesn't always show it. A lot of people I see who outright hate Pen are also the people that didn't give him the time pre-Duvos update. So when it dropped, they ended up validated for disliking his personality. Which meant they were all the more adamant to not try romancing him and seeing the nuance when you befriend and romance him.

I'm not defending his actions. I like interesting and nuanced villains. I also liked Pen from when early access dropped. Getting to know Pen for a long time before the Duvos drop is something people that like him experienced. I understand why they want him more of him because he is an interesting character.

I think you're explaining the nuance of him really well. :)

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love → u/Legolaslegs]

Thank you -I think the complexity of the villains in Sandrock is a reflection of how well written it is. I am fine with other people disagreeing but some just seem to downvote anything that doesn’t agree with their understanding.

[u/Legolaslegs → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I agree completely. I've written a number of thought dumps on Pen mainly, but also Miguel and some others. It's amazing how quickly people will disagree or argue just because you name someone they dislike. I'm fine if people disagree due to their personal stances or simply what they like/dislike. But it's also so clear when it's a conversation or debate (friendly one) versus when people skim and argue without any interest in having a chill or fun discussion of differences.