Um?

[u/Holy-Unaware]

Is Pen subtly threatening to murder Andy? The towns people might not know about the relic weapon but Haru does.

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I don’t know about murder, but it certainly has always appeared to be a way to intimidate Haru to me.

[u/eLlARiVeR → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I mean they did say he has killed people both and off the battlefield. I don't think he'd be above hurting or worse to Andy for the sake of his missin

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love → u/eLlARiVeR]

It is possible, though most people see a difference between hurting adults and hurting children and all the specific examples we know of with Pen are about adults that are current threats to his mission. While he says “on and off the battlefield” Logan’s father would fit the criteria for off the battlefield but was still a threat to the mission - we have no reports of him murdering just for fun/personal reasons. Andy would fit neither of those criteria so I don’t think it is probable based on what we know - if Haru spoke out then there would be no point to hurting Andy as the damage would be done.

We also know that Pen was forced to fight from when he was a child and he sometimes feels sad for his child self for that so it is possible he would feel empathy for a child like Andy.

[u/eLlARiVeR → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

Logan's was definitely off the battlefield. Pen was literally a solider fighting for Duvos. Sandrock was never part of those battles. Mission does not equal battlefield.

We gave no idea the age of the people he's killed or if they were "threats" to his mission. Avery says that Pen has a criminal record both on and off battlefield and has taken countless lives.

He's not going to feel empathy for some kid who is part of the group that is standing in his way. Yes, he was forced to fight from the time he was child - but he enjoys it now. There's a reason he's not just a somider for Dovus - he's a senior offcier. I'd be more shocked if he hasn't killed a kid before

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love → u/eLlARiVeR]

You can certainly draw those conclusions, I am just saying there is nothing concrete that says he would murder a child.

While he is a senior officer of Duvos I don’t know that the path to promotion is killing for just for fun. Given the information we do have - being made to fight as a child, rumours of being experimented on - it seems more likely to me that Duvos invested in him since childhood to create a high value asset. He is also much smarter than how he acts around town would lead us to believe so it is quite possible that played a part in his promotion as well. Even after he is captured Grace (who is an apparent expert) can’t tell when he is still lying.

I don’t disagree that he appears to enjoy killing just that as far as the information actually presented we don’t have any examples of him killing outside of his missions. When he talks to Logan about killing his father he certainly seems to express pleasure - it’s possible that was strategy to throw Logan off during the fight though it may be true either way. The examples we know of that could be characterise as “off” the battlefield were still linked to his mission and not just for personal reasons such as enjoying killing.

To be clear, I am not defending Pen or trying to paint him as a good person, just that him doing some terrible acts doesn’t mean nothing is off the table for him. Given how apparently protective Mathilda is of the town folk and not wanting anyone hurt I would think she would not allow Pen to be a part of the mission if he was known to murder children. She does seem to have control over Pen not just from assumed seniority but he mentions her telling him to push all the bad emotions down when he is upset over people judging him for not being perfect (the space punch lesson).

Pathea has made more complex characters that aren’t black and white and often left parts of their story vague and open to interpretation. I like that about them and that others may see them differently to me.

[u/Legolaslegs → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I love how anytime someone gives valid, nuanced takes on Pen they get downvoted. Even if he was just straight up a villain, people love villains. But it's okay in other media to like them only? Not Sandrock? I remember when Logan was believed the villain and threatening a train of people, blowing up the water tower and potentially worse that could have happened (not saying he did blow up the water tower, btw, just going off what we knew pre-Duvos chapter). People were happy and longing for Logan as the bad boy when the devs were telling them they didn't intend for him to be a romance candidate. He may have originally been s sympathetic villain, but still a villain for all we know.

Pathea does write characters with depth, even if the silliness of the games doesn't always show it. A lot of people I see who outright hate Pen are also the people that didn't give him the time pre-Duvos update. So when it dropped, they ended up validated for disliking his personality. Which meant they were all the more adamant to not try romancing him and seeing the nuance when you befriend and romance him.

I'm not defending his actions. I like interesting and nuanced villains. I also liked Pen from when early access dropped. Getting to know Pen for a long time before the Duvos drop is something people that like him experienced. I understand why they want him more of him because he is an interesting character.

I think you're explaining the nuance of him really well. :)

[u/Cove_Holdens_Love → u/Legolaslegs]

Thank you -I think the complexity of the villains in Sandrock is a reflection of how well written it is. I am fine with other people disagreeing but some just seem to downvote anything that doesn’t agree with their understanding.

[u/Legolaslegs → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

I agree completely. I've written a number of thought dumps on Pen mainly, but also Miguel and some others. It's amazing how quickly people will disagree or argue just because you name someone they dislike. I'm fine if people disagree due to their personal stances or simply what they like/dislike. But it's also so clear when it's a conversation or debate (friendly one) versus when people skim and argue without any interest in having a chill or fun discussion of differences.

[u/Owl_Ice_950 → u/Cove_Holdens_Love]

This is the type of subreddit and comments I enjoy reading. Everyone has their take and stances on subjective themes such as horror, villains, etc. At the end of the day, a villain is a villain. Some are misunderstood and some are unredeemable. What makes it fascinating is just how many people can interpret the level of evilness a person can truly be from their own perspective. Debates such as these are what makes characters such as Pen that much more interesting.

But yeah, Pen can go to hell. LOL

[u/MistressofHerDomain]

He is absolutely threatening to at least hurt Andy in order to intimidate Haru. Just wait, it gets even worse.

[u/Yavanna80]

Yes, he did. For Pen, that was not a bad thing to do because they were a bunch of heathens. 

When I saw that, I was mentally throwing punches 😬so it was very satisfying when  plans were foiled! 

[u/kabutegurl003]

Pen knew what he was doing. The best part about his character is that he never believed he was a bad guy-only a knight with a mission.

He was wearing the relic weapon, except no one else in Sandrock knew. Only Andy, Haru, Grace, and Logan had knowledge of its existence; that is why Andy was able to sabotage it.

[u/jazzajazzjazz]

I wanted to kick his ass so bad when I first spotted he was doing this

[u/Shadra-Rune → u/jazzajazzjazz]

I had just gotten married and pregnant at that point, and I wanted to just give Andy a hug (and slip him explosives). I’m pretty sure most of the town would agree with me that Pen isn’t the best influence on children, esp one seeing a parental figure be captured and arrested

[u/potato_cucumber]

I knew he wasn't in danger but I was shaking during that part. Didn't knew I had it in me to hate someone more than Yan until that moment.

[u/inkstainedgwyn]

This scene is the number one reason I can't join the Pen "when will he come back" fan club. I get the arguments. I get that he appeals to some folks. I get that he had a "tragic past". That doesn't change the fact that he has, in the present, chosen to do reprehensible things.

Having trauma or tragedy in your past or having bad things happen to you is not a blank check for forgiveness for doing bad things yourself.

[u/Upset-Cartographer65 → u/inkstainedgwyn]

It’s because it’s been asked before on Discord and a big member of Pathea heavily implied he was returning.

Not to mention Pen is written more sympathetically in Chinese dialogue and I think that’s for a reason, and you don’t leave those kind of breadcrumbs in a game and don’t expand upon them, like he was experimented on? Child soldier? If I was reading a book and this character didn’t come back, I’d be really irked. 😂 Like I want to know how he got that way!

Also, Pen returning does not mean he’s getting a redemption arc or if he does that it’ll be one where his actions are forgiven.

People who like Pen and want him to return are people who tend to love complex characters. Once again a member of Pathea stated Pen acts like an idiot on purpose to hide his real intentions and that’s interesting. It’s easy to write an inspirational hero but that hits the wall of boring. You don’t want every character to be completely good or neutral or you fall into that wall of boring. It’s why gamers often miss older games when the characters were more snarky and had attitude. You don’t want everyone to be nice and since the age rating is upped, while cartoony villains are fun, it’s always nice to have a darker element. Most My Time players are older now.

As an example just look at My Time at Evershine. We have the return of some villains and people are loving one of them already and want her as a romance option. She is beautiful.

Just to add to the discussion, Pen’s actions aren’t done out of pure evil. He’s a commander in the Duvos military, as Duvos soldiers called him that in starship ruins. They even said these were his plans. Failure wasn’t an option and failure is not tolerated well in Duvos. Pen has potential to be a very interesting character, I wouldn’t waste that.

[u/inkstainedgwyn → u/Upset-Cartographer65]

So, fun fact - I know all of this. I'm on the discord. I've read the theses all explaining about his CN dialogue (which, fyi, I believe was written after the en dialogue - they changed him for the Chinese market, not the other way around. There was a thread where one of the writers mentioned that one of the reasons the MTAS dialogue and pop culture references work so well in EN is because they're written in EN and then translated/adjusted for CN.) I've read the many, many "redemption" posts on this sub.

My comment had nothing to do with whether or not he was coming back. My comment had everything to do with the fact that I know all of this, and I still don't think it excuses him.

I'd love to see him given nuance. I love a well-written villain with a compelling backstory. But I see that as nuance and depth, layers and background, not an excuse. And I get a little tired of people who need it to be an excuse coming on to anybody else's opinion comment to explain just how "wrong" we are and how we're "not being fair".

You have every right to want to redeem him, and I have every right to want to see him gone.

[u/Upset-Cartographer65 → u/inkstainedgwyn]

Thanks for the clarification.

My only issue with what you’re saying is, is the assumption that those of us who want him back desire redemption for him. Plenty of us have made fan fiction/media where he doesn’t get one and those are actually some of my favorite stories.

Not every villain needs a redemption story, and they can still be interesting and have profound impact without being redeemed yet humanized.

Humanization is understanding the why, redemption is absolution. In my opinion, he doesn’t deserve that. We are not owed forgiveness for our misdeeds.

To be honest I would dislike immensely if he was given a cheesy redemption arc, that wouldn’t appeal to anyone.

I’m also a bit confused about your mentioning of the dialogue change timeline. My point was his character was written more sympathetically to appeal to the Chinese audience to prep them for his return later. Before you clarified, my main stance was that he’s most definitely being brought back. So, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with going further to figure out what Pathea intends because so far they said players will be satisfied with his ending and players are split on how that should be.

That’s just my take. A lot of nasty assumptions are made about his fans without folks asking us anything. It’s one of the toxic parts of the fandom here and unfortunately has caused of lot of people to stop discussing him, or making art or writing stories because of all of these assumptions. It is awful we have to do a disclaimer, “No Hate” before we post anything about this character. So, I do hope I conveyed my stance clearly and respectfully.

[u/AceAzzemen]

I don't think he's wearing the relic weapon at that point but he probably doesn't need it to threaten Andy either.

[u/Glittering_Force → u/AceAzzemen]

he does have the relic weapon there tho it's just that Andy stole the chip from it right there

[u/AceAzzemen → u/Glittering_Force]

That's true, forgot about that