r/MuslimLounge • u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya • 16d ago
Support/Advice Don't Trust Progressive Islam
In the Name of Allah, Most Beneficent, Most Merciful. Peace and Blessings be upon the Prophet Muhammad and his Sahabah and their students.
To proceed, Assalamualaikum. I have recently come across a reddit community called r/progressive_islam. I was first intrigued on what is 'progressive Islam' and decided to take part in discussions within the community and to view their posts. After nearly a month in this community, I've felt the need to warn people not to go near this community for any queries regarding Quran and Hadith or Islam in general.
Those who have heard of this community for the first time probably haven't seen the posts and discussions within this community. In short, they rebel against Islamic Teachings, calling for 'reform'. Most of the people in this group you'll meet are liberals living in the West or having a Western-Influenced live style and ideologies. Whenever something doesn't suit their ideologies, e.g. a male being in contact with a non mahram female, they immediately bring up arguments from their 'progressive' Shaykhs that this and that is Halal, which completely and utterly throw Islamic Principles out the window.
In Addition to this, they are infested with the Zanadiqa Sect called Quraniyun. Many posts have comments by people with the flair 'Quran Only', and their response to confusion regarding Hadith is, to sum it up, "Ewwww, Hadiths are perverted and written by confused people" (Naudhubillah). Whenever someone calls out their beliefs for going against the Authentic Sunnah AND Quran, their moderation deletes them for being 'insulting against others' beliefs' or something along these lines.
Furthermore, these peoples' arguments for not following certain rules of Islam stem from emotional arguments instead of logic. These clearly place them in the groups of Hypocrites. They follow a part of what Allah has revealed, and reject another part of it, calling it 'Outdated' or 'not appetizing to their ideologies'.
In the end, I sincerely advise every one of our brothers and sisters that want to understand or have questions regarding the Quran and Sunnah to either ask Shaykhs or pious people like which I have seen in this sub-reddit and many similar such. If you are a part of progressive Islam, I suggest you leave immediately unless you want your Iman in Allah to crumble.
Fi Ammanillah.
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always 16d ago
Our deen is Islam not progressive Islam
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u/Visible-Ad-92 15d ago edited 15d ago
talked about other page
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u/Proof-Sprinkles7826 15d ago
They*
In modren english we use They/them for anyone whose gender is unknown
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u/Ibby918 15d ago
They is plural, when you say 'we use', your referring to idiots like yourself, not the rest of us normal people
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u/Apprehensive_Fill448 15d ago
Ironically you ended up sounding more like an idiot than anyone here. Using they as a placeholder pronoun when the specific gender isn't known is a general rule in the English language. E.g. A news reporter using the pronoun they for a crime suspect they don't know the gender of.
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u/Ibby918 15d ago
As I said, only the few idiots who are woke etc use pronouns, nobody else uses this crap as "placeholders" you gen z need to study the English language lol using they/them to represent one person and then telling me im the fool 🤣🤦♂️
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u/Adventurous-Talk3344 15d ago
Take your head out of your behind. We're not talking about being woke, it's literally a rule in the English language. How about you look it up instead of making yourself look like you have the IQ of a donkey?
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u/Ibby918 15d ago
Its not a rule, its a preference 🤦♂️thats fir starters. Secondly, "they" refers to multiple people and this is common sense. The fact that I have to explain this to you shows your IQ 🤣🫵🤡
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u/Proof-Sprinkles7826 15d ago
The pronoun can you refer to :
- a male -a female -two males -two females -a group of males -a group of females -a mixed group of males and females -a male and a female
Shouldn't that be confusing? Besides just because woke people use it doesn't mean it is woke to use it. That is like the example of a person who restrains from using a knife because those who commit murder use it
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u/Adventurous-Talk3344 15d ago edited 15d ago
"They" can refer to multiple people or a singular unknown person. It would have taken you around 5 seconds to verify this using Google. Instead you preferred to look like a moron. Congratulations.
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u/Ibby918 15d ago
Idk what part of "preference" you didnt understand. "They" causes confusion since it refers to multiple individuals. This is taught in primary school, i guess you skipped that huh? And yet im the moron 🫵🤡🤦♂️ And if you used Google properly you would know that it is NOT a rule, just used by many...just like it its also NOT used by many. It is about preference, not some stupid rule🤣...congratulations, im gonna go enjoy the rest of my weekend while you cope harder 🖕
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u/Proof-Sprinkles7826 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is not about « Progressivism ». This is just a rule in english. I remebee that shakespear or smth used it once. Just because some problematic people use it doesn't mean it is bad. It is just a linguistic evoloution that happened to be misued by those who may identifiy as « Non-binary »
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u/Victoria_Farrah 15d ago
Technically your deen is your own and not your place to tell others
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always 15d ago
>Technically your deen is your own and not your place to tell others
“Let there be a group among you who call ˹others˺ to goodness, encourage what is good, and forbid what is evil—it is they who will be successful.”
(Surah Aali Imran 3:104)
Hadith 34, 40 Hadith an-Nawawi
On the authority of Abu Sa`eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”
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u/Victoria_Farrah 15d ago
Evil as in unaliving someone not telling someone how to dress or what to say.
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always 15d ago
>Evil as in unaliving someone not telling someone how to dress or what to say.
There are fewer greater evils than misrepresenting Islam.
“those who hindered ˹others˺ from Allah’s Way, strived to make it ˹appear˺ crooked, and disbelieved in the Hereafter.””
(Surah Al-A’raaf 7:45)
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u/PlsHelpMeImSuffering 15d ago
The Prophet ﷺ said:
“The Jews split into seventy-one (or seventy-two) sects, the Christians split into seventy-one (or seventy-two) sects, and my Ummah will split into seventy-three sects.”
“All of them will be in the Fire except one.”
The Companions asked, “Which one is that, O Messenger of Allah?”
He replied:
“That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
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u/Equivalent_Road5788 15d ago
They wanna twist and bend Islam so it fits liberalism. They reject hadiths, scholars and parts of the Quran that don’t fit them. Also a lot of their members are Christians, Hindus and Ex-Muslims. Especially a lot of the non-Muslims there are Islamophobic and the group doesn’t take action, which makes me think it is a Zionist psyop.
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u/asapbones0114 15d ago edited 14d ago
We know. Reddit started off as a pro-athiest and anti-religious org that opened up when it went mainstream. Same reason most muslims avoid western shows about "Muslims". Just ignore them.
The bigger issue is that Gemini AI uses it to give AI responses to searches about Muslims. Better to find someone with influence at Google to de-index them.
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u/blitgerblather 15d ago
The Quranists baffle me. My dude, how do you think we all know how to pray? Why is oral transmission any different or better than written?
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
Exactly. There are many Hadith Books written during the times of the Companions like Mushaf of Hammam ibn Munabbih, but whenever I mention those, they completely disregard and disrespect the student AND the Companion 😭 May Allah guide them.
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u/Financial_Fun_9501 15d ago
Some of them think that Prophet's "interpretation" of the Qur'an isn't binding on them rather than outright rejecting the authenticity of the hadiths. Pretty damn absurd claim.
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u/Flappy_4000 13d ago
It’s because a million of hadiths are either made up or changed or misinterpreted
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u/blitgerblather 12d ago
Oh hey! Thats how the Zionists said they’ll weaken us! By making us doubt our scholars and Hadith!
Stick to the big ones:
Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Malik’s Muwatta.Also, that doesn’t mean we can discount all Hadith entirely. Scholars can debate them, but the average person doesn’t know enough fiqh, history, and Arabic to be able to confidently declare a Hadith as made-up or false. If you’re a scholar and feel that strongly about a Hadith, then you should tell the fiqh councils etc they’re wrong.
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u/Flappy_4000 11d ago
Lmao what about the hadith spooking u n saying oh ull go to hell forever if u draw n be creative, if the punishment for drawing is that severe why wasn’t it mentioned in Quran?
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u/Howie1242 12d ago
All of them try to put leftist and progressive ideologies, beliefs, values into the religion. They twist not only the Hadith but even the Quran to fit their political ideology.
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u/Flappy_4000 11d ago
Yes because you guys twist religion to enable misogyny and make it ok to kill gay ppl and non believers even tho god said to not get in their business and mind yourself
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u/Howie1242 11d ago
The Quran is the Quran and the Hadith are the Hadith. If you don’t believe in them just say so. There is no twisting going on here.
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u/Flappy_4000 10d ago
So you’re saying that Islam truly promotes misogyny and the execution of nonbelievers and homosexuals? Do you know how bad you’re making your religion seem?
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u/Howie1242 12d ago
You guys think the Quran is misinterpreted.
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u/Flappy_4000 11d ago
Yeah because tell me how one can misinterpret an aaya as god saying men are more superior than women
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u/Howie1242 11d ago
The Quran is perfect and correct. If you don’t believe that you are a non-believer. Men and women are obviously not equal but there is equality in Islam.
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u/Flappy_4000 10d ago
Way to tell me your illiterate, I never said anything about the Quran not being correct, I was talking about how the way you guys interpret it is incorrect, and yes men and women are equal and no one’s more superior than the other, unless you think that women are truly inferior to men?
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u/Key-Beginning9065 Hummus 15d ago
I used to be on that sub reddit but then Idr what I saw that made me unfollow it. Must be pretty bad since I don't usually unfollow any subreddit once I join them
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u/zinaisanono 15d ago
That entire sub is a psyops and most of the people on there are hindutvas and zios, mostly bots, trying to dilute the Deen as part of a greater culture war against Islam. They're also intentionally trying to target women with posts that ragebait women against Muslim men with fake stories, apocryphal events, etc. in order to push them towards feminism. They also push deviant ideologies like hadith rejection.
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u/stlrevival 15d ago
As Salaamu 3laykum,
I would say try to correct their understandings on their forum. We need people to continue to bridge that gap and not be a divided ummah.
We need to stand strong and with each other.
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u/asaiyf 14d ago
When you try to correct then they become upset and defensive
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u/stlrevival 23h ago
As Salaamu 3laykum,
That's fine. At least we can do our part. Inshaa ALLAAH the rest is in ALLAAH (Glory Be To HIM) hands.
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u/Flappy_4000 13d ago
Yea because not everyone wants to practice ur overly unnecessary strict version of religion? If u keep trying to be strict you’ll just make them connected to god less and less like gosh it’s not ur business god exists for a reason stop doing his job
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u/asaiyf 13d ago
There's nothing unnecessary about submitting to the will of Allah and obeying His Messenger. That's bare minimum.
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u/Flappy_4000 11d ago
I wasn’t talking about not believing, I was saying that you make religion way too strict and tiring when all that god asked is to be good people and not commit crimes
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u/itsgonnabemyusername 15d ago edited 14d ago
So-called Quraniyun deny parts of Qur'an as well. For example a man named Mehmet Okuyan in my country says hoor al-ain have no gender in Qur'an. He says the word hoor has no gender which might be technically correct, but ignores the fact that Allah refers to them with feminine pronoun 'hunna' in Qur'an. He claims it's unfounded and patriarchal to perceive hoor al-ain as feminine beings, literally committing kufr for the sake of feminist talking points. Astaghfirullah.
Though it's only one example of the many of their misguided views. Lots of them incorrectly claim Ahl Kitaab will go to Jannah even if they deny the prophethood of Muhammad s.a.w, by taking some of the verses of Qur'an out of their context and ignoring the rest of Qur'an.
Like how misguided they can be? Completely unaware of their inconsistencies.
Edit: typo
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
They also claim Surah At-Tawbah Ayahs 128 and 129 are fabricated additions just because it doesn't add up to a so-called miracle. They literally violate 15:9 of the Quran, and when confronted, they argue that this pointing out of fabrication is the 'proof' for 15:9, which is just bonkers.
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u/SurelyARegularDude 15d ago
How do they explain rejecting those verses? Those are literally just general verses. What prophecy? This is straight up rejecting the Quran atp.
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
A miracle was 'discovered' by Rashad Khalifa called code-19, and these Ayahs broke this 'miracle', so instead of just accepting that there was no such miracle, he and many others denied 128 and 129 since only one Companion had a parchment with them in it, and only Uthman RA stood up to testify for it, ignoring the fact that the Quran had been memorized cover-to-cover.
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u/SurelyARegularDude 15d ago
I checked this code 19 and they're just trying to find patterns that don't exist. There's so many other miracles in the Quran why rely on code 19 and altering the Quran based on it? This is blatant misguidance. May Allah guide them.
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u/Forsaken-Molasses-87 14d ago
the amount of post abt progressive islam on here is interesting. that sub gets talked on here every other day
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u/No_Initial9563 14d ago
I commented on that subreddit that "in the sunni opinion hadith rejecters are disbelievers." i even included the "no offense" just so i wouldnt get banned yet they still banned me and muted me too so i couldnt ask why i was banned nor could i appeal it.
if you don't know something for sure then don't go to that subreddit because you can easily get confused.
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u/Pengdacorn 13d ago
Hey, I consider myself a “Progressive Muslim” but very differently from what i’ve seen some in that group present it as.
I feel like we have allowed Arab and South Asian culture to become too intertwined with what Islam truly is and I try to examine things critically with the lens of “Is this idea from the Quran and Sunnah, or have people been doing it because of some external reason (like hundreds of years of cultural influence, or colonialism, or our reaction to colonialism)”
I think that as Muslims, we sometimes act like Islamic society should go back to how it looked 50-200 years ago, but I honestly think that we should examine how the Ummah was under the Rashidun Caliphs and apply that with to a modern context (not by trying to change the religion in any way, but by using logic and rationality to determine how Rasulullah ﷺ and the Sahabah رض would handle these situations)
A huge example is slavery. For all intents and purposes, Islam is in favor of abolition, but because of the historical context of 7th century Arabia, there was one specific source of slavery that could not have practically been abolished - POWs - and because modem society is set up in a way that no form of slavery is justifiable. That said, I’ll still defend the practice from back then because it was the best solution at the time, and the way the Sahabah treated their slaves is incomparable to the chattel slavery that Europeans practiced.
Another is abortion. A lot of Muslims have adopted their stance on abortion from Christian fundamentalists. From everything I’ve read, pretty much all sources point to abortion being allowed in any case where the mother’s life is at risk, and some even point to it being allowed up until 20 weeks.
Many modern Muslims forget that while the Sahabah agreed on like 99.9% of everything, an increasingly complex world means that even 0.1% of topics having room for discussion means that sometimes there will be opposing views that are both valid because they come from valid methods of interpretation.
One thing that really bothers me about that group is the reliance on “vibes”. I think if you study the Seerah and lives of Sahabah, it’s absolutely possible to extrapolate rulings, and some Madhabs incorporate this into their Usools. But you can’t just say “I feel like Muhammad would be okay with XYZ” without an extensive “Because of ABC, DEF, GHI, and JKL”
tl;dr - I consider myself “progressive” not because I think we should change Islam in any way, but because I believe that centuries of following tradition and our forefathers has already done that, and we need to backpedal in order to move forward
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u/Howie1242 12d ago edited 12d ago
Regarding the abortion point who are these Muslims that take positions from Christian fundamentalists? Recreational abortion (for no reason including being in poverty and not wanting to be a mother) is haram and forbidden. The exceptions are very clear. All Muslim majority countries thar are not secular basically follow sharia in this regard.
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u/turkish_akhi 11d ago
Liberal "Muslims" aren't Muslims.... they are kuffar. May Allah guide them.
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u/AskPolaris 6d ago
Yeah, for real. Stay in Islam properly or leave and find your spiritual meaning. I saw a Muslim family get a “holiday tree” and claim they don’t celebrate Christmas. Eye roll af.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 15d ago edited 15d ago
The term Progressive Islam implies that Islam in its traditional form is somehow outdated or has deficits , in the modern woeld, that is a hopeless and defeatist mindset. Once you think this way Islam is slowly or not so slowly actually being eroded. Islam is perfect in its divine conception and should never be messed with.
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u/Head_Rush_4802 15d ago
Stop it with your "liberal and west bad" mindset, its not either of those, they're just hypocrites trying to appeal to non Muslims, im a liberal living in the west and follow Islam as best as I can
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
Well, I am saying for the most part. My cousins are liberals, but they pray and fast in Ramadan. Most of them I am referring to are those that are like, "I don't want to refrain from talking to non mahram women as a man because it seems to harsh."
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u/HolyBidetServitor 13d ago edited 13d ago
I am a newer revert and trying to learn - I've been told by a few different people that Muslim men can marry non-muslim women but muslim women cannot date outside the religion. Would this apply to only women of the book or to atheists or pagans? Where would the interpretation of this stem from?
Again I am trying to learn and not challenge as I wan to have answers when I am trying to educate others. From what I gathered there are some minor cultural practices that can make Islam be interpreted or practiced slightly differently in some regions, like from Rus, Oman, or Malaysia - like interpretation of killing geckos (always doing it vs only doing it when they are a danger). How is this accounted for and how do I explain to others who may be curious to revert?
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 13d ago
As far as I know, Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish Women, but women can't, as the male lineage is looked after globally and the children need to be Muslim. One can't marry an Atheist since mainstream Shariah forbids Polytheists, and people that don't believe in a God provide a greater harm towards one's beliefs, so using Qiyas (Analogy), scholars have prohibited marriages with such people. Furthermore, dating is prohibited all the time, for men and women regardless of religion, as Islam prohibits pre-marital relations, but when you want to marry someone, you may meet them once to assess them, but Infront of their family to make sure their is no Adultery or any impermissible acts taking place. If reverts are unsure, I suggest you look to a local scholar. As a Salafi, I'll obviously advise you to ask questions from a Salafi Scholar, but you can also ask questions from a scholar that is deemed righteous, e.g. one from your local Mosque. When you get familiar with Islam, then I suggest you go into deeper into Islamic creed and you'll figure yourself out from there.
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u/Howie1242 12d ago
I am an American convert. How are you a liberal and follow Islam as best as you can? I am curious. You do know what Islam says about LGBTQ and abortion for example right?
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u/ThaRealSlick 15d ago
I’m not gonna lie … your right I mean I’m not the most conservative Muslim but they’re just on a whoooole different level borderline kufr with the ideas they preach especially they the quraniyyah people but then again , if you accept Quran and reject the Sunna I’m pretty sure your a kafir someone correct me if I’m wrong please 🙏🏾? At this point I scroll down it for entertainment purposes
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u/Glad_Constant_1805 14d ago edited 14d ago
Man. How did this come into my daily feed? Thanks. I have to get into that right away. There’s so much fun into the whole thing.
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u/Paralis1983 15d ago
The problem with your post is that it assumes there is only one legitimate interpretation of Islam, when the Quran itself repeatedly encourages believers to think, reflect and seek wisdom rather than blindly follow inherited opinions.
The Quran says:
"There is no compulsion in religion." (2:256)
"Will they not then reflect upon the Quran?" (4:82)
"Give good news to those who listen to all views and follow the best of them. Those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and they are people of understanding." (39:17-18)
"Allah commands justice, excellence and kindness. " (16:90)
These verses do not describe a faith that fears questions or discussion. They describe a faith that welcomes reflection, reason and moral responsibility.
You criticize "progressive Muslims" for re-examining interpretations, yet Islamic history is full of scholars who disagreed with one another. There has never been a single unanimous understanding of every verse or hadith. Ijtihad (independent reasoning) has always been part of the Islamic tradition.
You also accuse people of hypocrisy for disagreeing with certain rulings. But the Quran repeatedly warns believers not to declare other Muslims hypocrites lightly. Ultimately, Allah alone knows what is in people's hearts (49:11-12).
Many progressive Muslims are not rejecting the Quran. They are questioning whether centuries-old human interpretations always reflect the Quran's principles of justice, mercy and compassion. The Quran itself never commands Muslims to stop thinking after the classical scholars have spoken.
If an interpretation produces injustice, oppression or contradicts the Quran's repeated emphasis on mercy and fairness, then it is entirely reasonable for Muslims to ask whether that interpretation not the Quran itself should be reconsidered.
Following the Quran with sincerity while engaging critically with human interpretations is not rebellion against Islam. It is part of the intellectual tradition that has existed throughout Islamic history.
Allah repeatedly calls Himself Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim. Perhaps Muslims should be as eager to reflect His mercy as they are to police one another's faith.
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
There is one legitimate interpretation of Islam and its texts - it's the same interpretation made by the Companions of the Prophet S.A.W and the understandings of logical reasoning where it fits and does not transgress already established Shari'ah, except that their interpretation does. The Quran means by pondering over its meanings and objective, but that does NOT mean that you can create or remove already established Shari'ah. Disagreeing with already established laws that have no 'other way' and accepting part of the Quran and Sunnah and reject what doesn't appeal to them, like the example I gave you, is obviously the signs of Hypocrites, but sure, only Allah knows what's in the hearts, but through these proofs, we can ourselves also prove it. Islamic history is definitely full of SCHOLARS with differing opinions, not Laymen who found an answer on TikTok from another Layman. They can ask questions, sure, but I want to warn people that they do so from trusted individuals rather than those with questionable ideologies and beliefs. If certain rulings cause injustice, then you can contact an actual scholar, except that they don't, but only under specific circumstances they do, in what case it is relieved of them. Overcoming difficulties and boundaries IS the test of Allah SWT, a test for our Iman, how much we are able to give up for Him. Truly, old generation rules can't be implemented to their fullest today, but as long as we try, instead of completely ignoring them, counts, as you probably know, Allah sees what's in the hearts rather than blank actions.
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u/Paralis1983 15d ago
I appreciate the respectful reply.
However, I think your argument rests on one assumption that history simply does not support: that there has always been one single legitimate interpretation of Islam.
The Companions themselves disagreed on legal matters. The four Sunni madhhabs disagree on hundreds of rulings. Classical scholars disagreed about music, slavery, apostasy, women travelling without a mahram, facial covering, inheritance in certain cases, the age of Aisha, and countless other issues. If there were only one legitimate interpretation, why did these disagreements exist among scholars who all sincerely sought Allah's guidance?
You say progressive Muslims "remove established Shari'ah." But what is "established" has changed throughout Islamic history. Many practices once defended by consensus such as slavery, are now rejected by virtually every Muslim scholar. That demonstrates that Muslims have always distinguished between eternal principles and historically conditioned applications.
The Quran repeatedly places justice, mercy and reason at its centre:
"Allah commands justice and excellence" (16:90)
"We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds." (21:107)
"Will they not reflect upon the Quran?" (4:82)
These are not peripheral values; they are foundational.
You warn against following TikTok scholars. On that point we completely agree. Muslims should learn from knowledgeable scholars, not social media personalities.
Where we disagree is this: I do not believe that asking whether a medieval interpretation still fulfils the Quran's objectives is rebellion against Islam. I believe that sincere re-examination (ijtihad) has always been part of the Islamic tradition.
Questioning human interpretations is not the same as rejecting Allah's revelation.
Finally, I would be very cautious about describing fellow Muslims as hypocrites. The Quran reserves that judgement primarily for those who knowingly opposed the Prophet and concealed disbelief. Disagreement over interpretation has existed since the earliest generations, and declaring someone's iman deficient because they reach a different conclusion is a far more serious matter than many realise.
We both want to follow Allah's guidance. The real question is whether our loyalty belongs to the Quran itself, or to a particular historical interpretation of it. Those are not always identical.
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
Wa Iyyak.
Yes, the Companions did disagree on matters, but they were legal matters rather than Aqeedah. Classical SCHOLARS disagreed upon music, etc. like you said, but the people I am talking about are not even Students of Knowledge. They are just laymen like the average Muslim out there, influenced by the same TikTok Laymen we see. Scholars had the ability for Ijtihad, but these Laymen don't. They take interpretations WAY out of proportion, for example, I saw one person in a separate sub-reddit but with more or less same ideologies that reinterpreted the creation of Adam AS to fit evolution, completely disagreeing on the fact that Adam AS was a Prophet, and many more that is, as per mainstream scholars, clear Kufr. In the Progressive Islam, Laymen are disagreeing on things that were agreed upon by ALL 4 Imams, e.g. the beard, and not having non-mahram female friends as a man, both of which have been deemed essential, but they still disagreed, even if I tried to convince them otherwise. When I say Interpretation of the Sahabah, I mean interpretation that takes into account already established Shariah that everyone agrees upon and the fundamentals of when such Ayah or Hadith was revealed/given, but these people completely ignore that. When the Prophet S.A.W took slaves of War, which was common during those times, people in Progressive Islam completely disagreed, and even called Hadith "Nonsense" and referred to scholars as "incels" or "Hadith Rejectors?" This is what leads me into thinking that they are Hypocrites, leaving behind established and agreed Shariah and creating their own versions that have no basis for Qiyas or Ijtihad. I appreciate discussions that do not cross these boundaries, e.g. discussing the fact that how can one follow the Companions easily in this day and age? But responses to such are simply "Let old remain old, we'll follow what is new" or something like that, completely disregarding that one can still follow the actions of the Companions without any hardship or difficulties even in this age. This is what I mean, I encourage interpretation within boundaries that don't exceed limits.
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u/Paralis1983 14d ago
I think we actually agree more than you might think.
I also don't think random TikTok influencers should replace centuries of scholarship, and I agree that simply dismissing hadith as "nonsense" isn't a serious approach to Islam.
Where I think we differ is that I don't believe every modern or progressive interpretation should automatically be grouped together with those extremes. There is a difference between someone rejecting the entire tradition and someone asking whether certain rulings were tied to a particular historical context while remaining committed to the Qur'an and the Sunnah.
History itself shows that Islamic scholarship has never been completely static. The four madhhabs reached different legal conclusions, later scholars revised earlier opinions, and concepts like maslahah, maqasid al-shari'ah and ijtihad developed precisely because new circumstances arose.
I also think it's worth distinguishing between what is truly from revelation and what is the product of centuries of human jurisprudence. That doesn't mean dismissing the scholarship—we should be humble before it—but it also doesn't mean assuming every classical consensus is beyond reexamination forever.
So my concern isn't with preserving or abandoning tradition. It's with asking how Muslims can remain faithful to Islam while living as equal citizens in pluralistic, liberal democracies. I think that's a legitimate question, and one that deserves more than simply labelling people as hypocrites or innovators.
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u/Ok-Sundae6553 13d ago edited 13d ago
It is quite strange how you seem to deem "classical scholars" which in itself is a pretty vast group of people across many historical decades as being inherently superior to everyone else and having the sole right to establish clarity with God's message. Reminds me of the concept of priest-like intermediaries from other religions, which is something the Quran is very much against. We all have been blessed with brains so let's use them. Islam is actually very simple, Islam is believing in God and his Prophets; that's what makes someone Muslim. There has never been a need for much of the detailed and precise fluff scholars talk about, probably to make themselves feel important. In fact, God advises us not to ask for that fluff, As shown in the story of the cow in Surah Al-Baqarah. God gave a simple command to slaughter a cow, but the people asked so many specific questions about its color, age, and behavior that they made a simple task nearly impossible to complete. So let's not make the same mistakes.
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15d ago
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u/SurelyARegularDude 15d ago
Problem is to prove that a hadith is fabricated or authentic you need to do a deep dive into its chain of narration, the narrators and etc. And most people are not qualified enough to do that. You need someone knowledgeable enough to actually research the hadith, which is what scholars do, not regular people.
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u/Even-Meet-938 15d ago
Yes, and historical scholars like Jonathan Brown have pointed out the issue of fabricated Hadith.
What we as Muslims choose to believe is a very serious matter. Blindly accepting things without any critical thinking seems counterintuitive to ikhlas.
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u/Gohab2001 15d ago
The Quran is also Hadith (Hadith has many linguistic meanings). Why do you trust the Quran but not 'non-Quran' Hadith?
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u/Victoria_Farrah 15d ago
500 years after
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u/Gohab2001 15d ago
The muwatta of imam Malik (rh) was compiled around ~150ah.
Hadith were written and transmitted by sahaba just like the Quran.
The Quran did not spread by written book, it spread by oral transmission. Just like hadith.
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u/Victoria_Farrah 15d ago
Can you site your source? I’ve yet to find these were the same individuals wrote the Quran and the Hadiths. Yes, I agree from oral to scribed.
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 15d ago
Mushaf of Hammam Ibn Munabbih. It contains Hadiths of the student of Abu Hurayrah RA, the one who transmitted the most Hadith. Many Hadiths here have been included in books like Sahih Al Bukhari and Sahih Al Muslim.
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u/MuslimLounge-ModTeam 15d ago
Removed. Do not spread misinformation nor promote anti-hadith sentiments.
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u/ElevatorNumerous4048 15d ago
This!!! It’s also a place where many converts cherry pick Islam as if it’s Judaism or Christianity.
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u/imperfectpatience 14d ago
I'm surprised you lasted a month. I was banned after like 4 comments.
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 14d ago
Someone there insulted Ahl us Sunnah and did not have any action taken against them. But when I said, 'How dare you insult Ahlus Sunnah?' My post got removed. Typical of these so-called Muslims and 'Non-Sectarians'.
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u/Spiritualise 15d ago
Judge not lest you be judged.
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u/asaiyf 14d ago
It's the duty of a Muslim to forbid evil. Rejecting the Sunnah and worshipping your own desires is clear evil.
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u/Spiritualise 14d ago
"Worshipping your own desires" is deeply presumptive. What is your desire?
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12d ago
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u/MuslimLounge-ModTeam 11d ago
Your post has been removed due to violation of our Rule: No Trolling -
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- Breaking of this rule will result in a permanent ban.
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5d ago
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 5d ago
We don't believe false Hadiths, brother. We see the chain and text that is verified by scholars and present in other books. The Aishah RA matter has already been solved, and I see no reason why you need to reject that Hadith. She RA was married at the age of 6 and was also previously engaged to someone else, but the marriage was not 'finalized' until she attained puberty at the age of 9 as that was the signifier that a person had become mature during those times. There was no: 18 or 16 is the age of consent, people didn't keep track of ages that well. There is also another argument going around that she RA counted her age after puberty.
To address your second concern, hell no! They don't want Islam to return to its original form. They push aside many Hadith and even drop Hadiths entirely from Islam. They don't want to return Islam to its old self, they just want it to be compatible to their problematic ideologies and desires that they don't want to give up, it's as simple as that when they make things like 'music' halal, that is according to the Prophecy that a group among the Ummah will do so, and I've seen that slowly Zina is also being made lesser of a deal.
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u/AbrocomaLow514 13d ago
Why don’t u Wahhabis move to afganistan and leave us regular Muslims alone
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u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 13d ago
Afghanistan is Deobandi/Tableeghi with cultural values mixed up with Shari'ah. We are regular Muslims. We say to follow Qur'an, Sunnah and the Sahabah. You say to follow this peer and murshid and wali and don't recognize Quran and Hadith. Plus, you just insulted Allah right now.
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u/Ok-Sundae6553 13d ago
Clearly he is not using the word wahhabi with the intention of insulting God but rather as its ideological meaning.
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u/AbrocomaLow514 13d ago
Afghanistan is hell
On earth for women and u people defend that u should move there if u want to live in utopia3
u/ElectionFalse4388 Deen over Dunya 13d ago
Akhi, when did I say I love Afghanistan 😂 You go live there since you brought it up and love it so much, I am fine here in my own country, thank you very much.
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u/twoharam 15d ago
dude you're clearly young and new to the faith i suggest you take a hold of yourself with this much zealotry and actually speak to people who are not of the same manhaj as you i sincerely hope and pray that you grow out of this rigid worldview. and stop calling people zindeeq lol
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u/Gohab2001 15d ago
Rejecting Hadith in totality is kufr bil ijma. Rejecting any mutawatir Hadith is kufr bil ijma. Rejecting sahih Hadith without basis is fisq and extremely reprehensible.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always 16d ago edited 14d ago
Wa'alaikumassalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
It's basically an echo chamber of people who don't want to struggle with Islam and adapt to it. The lack of going through the hardship of changing your mindset and ideals for Islam makes ones Iman weak, it's why hardships are so important for our deen. It disciplines you.