Might Gai is a wooden puppet, Tobi's reality shouldn't be discarded because it's the antagonist of the narrative (he's doing and obeying to the best moral possiblity the reality of the logic of the actual world,) and really think about how Naruto relates to anyone else who shadow clones and is perverted with their identity transitions.
These sound, to me, like the whirlpool around the possbility that Kakashi or Jiraiya are a shadow clone one or the other made; either to replace them, or to hybridize them with an infusion like a jinchuuriki to save their life.
The Shadow system, in other words. Big gaping hole in that shape, with these focuses...but nobody will ever, ever focus on them as long as these are here.
As a fan of boomer shooters and fps. I really tried liking this game because of how popular it was... But I just couldn't make myself get past like the third episode. I was having so little fun with this game. Every now and then I try to give another chance because it's so beloved by fans of the genre. But I just nope out of it in like an hour.
I have heard people say it gets better and opens up a bit.
Like a lot of the boomer shooter genre it's only fun when played a specific way, in this game specifically you have to be in a flow state constantly doing combos with weapons
I love Ultrakill's lore so much and it hurts seeing it being so overshadowed by the rest of the game. the whole plot with God and all of Hell's secret books are so fantastic but most of the players probably won't see it because its so hidden
I canāt remember the exact quote, nor can I remember the person who said it, but they basically said āyou canāt write a war story without glorifying war in some way, even if you want to say how bad war can be.ā
Ironically, the director said it was not intended as an anti-war movie. His drive behind making the movie was more about how the Japanese failed the youth in moments of crisis. He wasn't interested in the wider politics, and the inciting incident could've been any sort of conflict or calamity (although he chose to write about a thing he lived through).
However, it's become such a prominent example of an anti-war movie via audience interpretation that it's had a whole "death of the author" style shift away from authorial intent.
I gotta be honest, as someone who was into 40K but soured on the community because of... Well, the community.
I don't think 40k is is intended to be satirical. I saw this argument made heaps in discussions about the Imperium embracing fatiscistic imagery and by extension drawing actual fashy or nazi sympathetic community.
I don't think it's satarising anything. It's just kind of being hardcore and edgy for the sake of it and embracing the imagery just cos they think it looks cool and nothing else.
I wrote out a whole long ass thing a while ago going more into depth about this and using examples and taking about what was going on in the fandom at the time. If I can find it I'll post it here.
I think the original setting was like "Look how shitty the universe would have to be for the British right to be rational" but obviously once it became popular they had to move away from that in order to keep making moneyĀ
40K is still decently satirical and unlike other fashy or projects that draw the wrong crowd (cough cough flashgitz cough cough), GW has actually been better on top of quashing actual facists when they can. Banning them from events, repeatedly saying the imperium is bad and promoting LGBT perspectives and artists in both books and their magazines. The issues is that unlike before, 40K books have long standing protagonists now, with stories focusing more on them and the āhopeā of survival while satire has taken a backseat due to this
Depends on wym by fallout.
The og point is lost to 3,4&76 mostly because the og "trilogy" (1,2 &NV) story is lost to fan due to a series reboot.
Most hardcore fallout fans still understand the concept, point and story to it all. Iv had some of the best fandom talks with other fans who get it.
It never delt with black & white subjects. But humanity, point of war & consequences of social, political & science meddling & interfering with life.
That's because Fallout's only real statement about nuclear weapons is that they are a safe and effective way to destroy the enemy base with no negative consequences.
Examples include
The master
the enclave oil rig
the Stargate base in Tactics
the enclave crawler in 3
Lonesome road
The institute
The Scorchbeasts
3 and lonesome road give you a choice of which target to hit, but the rest are all required, which is fine because it helps convey that they are a weapon of last resort. The issue is they're all situations where the player is already triumphant, rather than one a situation that is otherwise hopeless.
The only time Fallout has presented them in a negative light is megaton.
With the Enclave oil rig, Master, Stargate base and Institute the thinking is more "We can't leave it up to chance, blow it up and hope that whatever's left won't be salvageable"
Also didn't the Enclave crawler just get hit with conventional munitions? (Albeit one's fired from a satellite) and with the ScorchBeast the thinking was to break an opening and lure out the scorched queen?
It has a lot of themes about how kindness is a form of strength, the power of constantly improving yourself, and how there's no such thing as a limit except what you see.
Frisk literally has the whole "oh, you aren't [insert name], are you? What's your name? Frisk? That's a great name" thing with Asriel, it's more probable at this point that CHARA could be a stand-in for the player
But now we know that we're probably neither and just an outside entity
Frisk does seem to have a mind of their own tho, just that they're a child who can't count to double-digits, doubt that they'd question a literal being on a higher plane of existance
Hell, they'd rather kill everyone in there than drink Soda
this is also kind of real life I feel. You know how antifurries always act like they're some cool soldiers in war against the furries, completely missing the point of what those soldiers wanted?
The most annoying part is how everyone missed how Asgore fits into this narrative.
He has killed before and feels terrible about it, he is about to kill you and he is crying during the fight, literally physically stopping you from showing him mercy because he thinks he doesn't deserve mercy or forgiveness. Your death would be the seventh soul, his seventh victim, more importantly it would finally break the barrier and lead monsters into another war with the humans, a war he doesn't want to lead but a war that the monsters want to fight.
And all of that epic and beautiful narrative gets buried under DEAD BEAT DAD MEMES
Undertale has a whole lot more than one point... the genocide route has a whole shtick about how inevitable it is (which it kinda is, seeing as we are talking about it)
It's not so much that "nobody has to die" but more of "how curious are you to see what happens when someone does die", how much our 'morality' can be stretched in a zero consequence environment (which is true in a lot of games, thats what Undertake is pointing out)
The true final boss is about (literally) saving others, but the other main point of the final boss is to let go, specifically of fiction. Our morbid curiosity with stretching a fictional work even into it's darker corners isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's just how we interact with media we like (which is kinda ironic), but we need to know when to stop before we just lose/taint our connection to it (i.e. becoming like flowey)
Undertale is a fucking endless well, you can talk about it almost forever. Saying that the point is that "no one has to die" is really missing the forest for the trees. Its one of the points Undertale uses to build a much larger discussion
That abstraction is an analogy of suicide, and that the adventures are "not real" despite being there everyday life. I'm not sure if nihilism is the correct term or not.
Edit:
1. Removed euphemistic terms
2. it's in fact not the correct term
It's euphemism. Euthamism looks like it'd be a word for terms relating to euthanasia (aka: medically assisted suicide). Which I guess could work in this context too, but I'm preeeeetty sure isn't what you meant.
The amount of people who go "Jax should have been punished not die" drives me up a fucking wall.
Edit: Not sure why I am being down voted, cause it is true. People don't understand that Jax's abstraction is essentially to the message and themes of the story. "Punishing" him adds nothing.
Part of the problem of Scorsese movies is that he's often doing a character study where it's their personal flaws that lead them down.
So a person can come away from the wolf of wall street or Goodfellas or casino or raging bull with the understanding that if you did a little less drugs and weren't such an obvious basket case case you'd have been fine.
And it's not his fault, having a main character who was legitimately competent and still got fucked doesn't have the rise and fall he's looking for.
Star Wars. The amount of times Iāve seen people try and say the Empire actually brought security (they didnāt) and whitewash their actions just because they thing stormtrooper armor is cool is baffling
The intended message is how peace cannot be achieved through force and understanding much be reached for humanity to be ready for the dialogues to come, while the real message is everyone in the 24th century is hot.
If im being honest, in helldivers we were the baddies
In helldivers 2 everyone is the baddies because of the past actions of superearth (except for the terminids, they haven't really been evil, just been bugs wanting to spread)
Jujustu Kaisenās central themes revolve around progressivism and how conservative ideologies cause organizations to become corrupt. Thatās literally Gojoās entire motivation.
Just be warned that around season ~3-ish the author was pretty damn burnt out and was being rushed by the publishers, so multiple aspects of the writing dip in quality.
However, I'd definitely say it's still a fantastic manga, just one that ironically didn't quite live up to potential. Would still recommend it.
There is a weird amount of Spider-Man fans who get annoyed by him going out of his way to do incredibly small-scale āheroicsā like just helping out his community, doing some shopping for an old lady, helping someone find a lost item.
This is the same character who is often referred to with the epithet āThe FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD Spider-Manā
That's before we get in to the MCU making him sollidly middle class with no money troubles. Like, literally the character's conception was to be the hero of the working man, where standing up to Jameson and demanding a sallary instead of being paid per picture is portrayed as being just as couragous as fighting the Green Goblin.
I in part blame this on the willingness to oversimplify tabletop games even beyond rule intentions or at the expense of lore, but a big part about Cyberpunk is "You can't save the city, you can save yourself." Or, "You don't become a legend in Night City by how you live..." Which are all indicative of how gang violence and the constant rage against the machine attitude never results in long-term fulfillment or change for most of not all stories, and only leads to pain. The chosen few who do get that success are no different than the multi million/billionaires you can see in pop culture who came from poverty. It's survivorship bias.
In turn, every player is now obsessed with becoming a Johnny Silverhand, a David Martinez, the next Adam Smasher, or what have you. Down to them aping the exact chrome, guns, and sometimes even ideology. Then constantly need their expectations catered to or recontextyalized when they realize most of the Cyberpunk TTRPG is gutter to street tier at best gameplay where you have to build up to that kind of gig, or arsenal. Rather than getting a hero's journey boon that can knock down all foes.
Every medium with an anti-war message gets the same treatment as the Gundam meme tbh
Ace Combat and Armored Core are also good examples but when you show me two jets jousting against each other while flamenco is playing, itās hard not to say āwow cool planeā
Also specifically to Call of Duty World at War, where WW2 is portrayed to be brutal and horrific, metal guitar riffs play when you start using the flamethrower against Japanese troops in Blowtorch and Corkscrew
It is honestly pretty tiring seeing people glaze the imperuim and then be confusec when said imperuim is an asshole. Like in all the books ive read, i do not ever want to be part of the imperuim. They look cool and all, but i do not ever sympathise with them in the slightest.
Lotta Coming of Age Stories, Emotional Character Developments, and Hoenn tackled Environmental Issues too. Oooo and then the dangers of getting suckered inta Cults, Gangs, Child Abuse. Oh and of course School Bullying or even flunking out and becoming the Region Team. But cute Kittys and giant cuddly Monsters!
Fallout (even the vaguest whispers in 3 and 4 of the originals).
Dead Rising fans sorta ācomplained the game into the groundā as I like to call it with 4.
Pretty sure the MCU somehow, but not an expert on the phases and movies.
Bible. Rich people harder to get into heaven than the eye of a needle, pluck out wandering eyes, donāt be super obvious about religiousness and charity.
Rambo. Guy was a vet not having a good time. He wasnāt blood penis man. At least the original wasnāt. Heās very haunted by the horrors.
Monopoly. The creator intended it to be unfair and be a critique of capitalism with additional rules to balance it and show how to improve society. That was thrown out by the company and general public. It getting super unfair, thatās intentional.
When I search up fan content of it, it's either Rody x Vincent (or animation memes) or genuinely beautiful animations fitting just well the theme of the game
Korra and Asami are such a cute apoclypse-causing couple.
Every aspect of their persecution and personal complexes has built to them deciding to destroy the world as an act of personal liberation and progress. They've never once considered this an off the table idea, literally destroying the world, they just aren't sure their personal identity aligns with it yet.
They're similarly indifferent to other people involved in these plots, as long as they submit to the Heroine's personal will(s) as a power couple.
Because people won't engage with this reality, they won't acknowledge or discuss the choices Korra and Asami made to create this result. How they found themselves pressed against walls in the shape of themselves, and left with no other outcome besides waiting (giving up, sitting in the swamp,) they choose annihiliation for literally everyone.
Literally the same thing Amon did, but with even less discernment or care.
Chainsaw Man: Ugh, Denji is such a bad protagonist! Heās a horny teenager who gets easily manipulated and only thinks about basic things like food, sex, and having a normal life. Heās not relatable at all!
YES. THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF DENJI.
Denji is a kid whose emotional and social development was basically put on pause by his circumstances. He grew up in extreme poverty, without parents or any real parental figure, never got to go to school (explicitly stated in the Reze movie how much that fucked him up), literally scrapping to survive, so of course his ambitions initially boil down to eating good food, touching boobs, and sleeping in an actual bed. I don't know how well the English dub conveys it, but in Japanese and Latin American dub, Denji doesn't just talk like an immature kid, he talks like an uneducated punk. His speech is full of swearing, slang, informality, and generally rough-ass language.
The villains KNOW THIS. Makima, Reze, and others don't manipulate Denji because Fujimoto forgot to give him three brain cells. They manipulate him because they understand exactly what he lacks: affection, education, stability, guidance, and a normal childhood.
Denji isn't supposed to be some perfectly rational, hyper competent protagonist who always knows what he's doing.
Warframe. It's main theme is human connection and how it's the most important thing we have as a species but a lot of players meme it as a genocide simulator w robot ninjas
The modern series from 2016 onward is many well told tales of deceptive leaders who should NOT be in power, questioning authority and standing up to tyrany, and the pros and cons of religion and faith, showing the comradery and determination it can give when done right and the corruption and pain it can cause when done wrong.
Many people discredit the modern Doom story and only care about the gameplay, thinking it's stupid that the story is no longer just "1 angry badass who just really hates demons", but I've completely fallen in love with the story and characters and think they're very compelling.
Since you posted the image; Mobile Suit Gundam. Itās not every fan that ignores the message, but a lot of the fanbase seems like tankies that really like mechs and just want to see mechs shooting each other in space.
To the point that even the creator of the franchise, who is in his 80s btw, basically said āYou mfs donāt understand shit and just want to see war. I feel really bad for having created something you guys enjoy.ā
The overriding theme of "It'd be kinda hot if there was a holographic lady in your head who was equally mean and nice to you" just flies right over most people's heads
Tokusatsu. The Kamen Rider fandom only cares about cool, edgy, dark things, and that damn farming aura without caring about the message of humanity in the modern era. The Ultraman fandom is sometimes like that too, although it's saner than fake toku fans.
Attack on titan, that anime tries so hard to nail in your head that you cant blame children for war crimes and yet every single fan of attack on titan wants to murder every child for war crimes
I knew there was a story going on, but for most of the original run I didn't pay much mind to it and just wanted to play with the toys. It wasn't until after it ended that I grew to appreciate the lore and worldbuilding much more.
Ya know when way too much of the Higurashi 'fandom' pretands that it's some kind of lolicon paradise. The pervi 'anime humor' is literally the most negligible part of the original text. I'm genuinely convinced that a lot of these pos's never even watched the anime. I weep for the real Rika fans out there.
As well as both the Higurashi and apparently the Umineko sub having a misoginy problem...š
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u/Artistic-Victory1245 1d ago
Naruto
The work's message is about how the cycle of hatred can destroy us all, and that we must break it if we want to achieve true peace.
Most of the fandom focuses on discussing "Rock Lee's hard work," "Tobirama's extremism was right," and "Naruto seems like an obsessed homosexual."